The vaccines | vaxxed boosted unvaxxed? New poll

[TheReligion]

AZ and Pfizer.

What I'm saying is the amount will still be limited of younger people getting AZ in UK. Across the EU AZ has been largely used for younger people while elderly get Pfizer/Moderna. These very rare cases could just be around the corner in younger groups in Spain Belgium etc and the UK. Once UK starts using AZ on a larger younger group we could see these rare cases pop up.

Across the EU it's just Germany and Norway. Depends how many younger people have got AZ in UK and if it dwarfs EU numbers, I think it will limited and similar in all countries still and again these very rare cases could be waiting around the corner for the other 25 EU and UK once more and more younger people receive AZ if there's something wrong with the AZ vaccine and it's not due to batches.

They could, or as I said before it might simply be the minimal risk you take when you have any vaccine or medicine for that matter.

 

[mav_9me]

These aren’t classic DVTs/PEs. So the background incidence of DVT/PE is a bit of a red herring. The article I linked you to gives more details on this. For the specific provisional diagnosis the incidence seems to be many multiples the baseline.

On the plus side, the absolute risk of any serious adverse event is still low. But it’s possible that for young people (or ideally an identifiable subset of young people) it’s high enough to outweigh the potential benefit of protecting against a virus that we know has a very low morbidity/mortality in the young.

Thank you for correcting me. Based off that article its DIC.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thank you for correcting me. Based off that article its DIC.

Yeah, something like that. They also mention HUS. Unfortunately everyone seems to be shooting in the dark!

 

[Mickeza]

Boris is headlining today’s press conference which is unusual as he normally only works a Wednesday. I don’t remember the chief executive of the MHRA being at one before either.

“The prime minister will be speaking at 17:00 GMT and will be joined by the Chief Medical Officer for England Prof Chris Whitty and Dr June Raine, the chief executive of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency.”

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Boris is headlining today’s press conference which is unusual as he normally only works a Wednesday. I don’t remember the chief executive of the MHRA being at one before either.

“The prime minister will be speaking at 17:00 GMT and will be joined by the Chief Medical Officer for England Prof Chris Whitty and Dr June Raine, the chief executive of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency.”

Good decision. Even if they have no useful update they need to address the elephant in the room. Be great if the MHRA have done some analysis of their own but probably too soon for that.

 

[Mickeza]

Good decision. Even if they have no useful update they need to address the elephant in the room. Be great if the MHRA have done some analysis of their own but probably too soon for that.

Looks like they’ve ruled out any additional risk of standard clotting but there have been 5 incidents of the type reported in Norway - just published on BBC now:

Public can have confidence in Covid vaccines - UK regulator

The public can have confidence in the approved Covid vaccines, the UK's medicines regulator says.

The MHRA has been exploring reports of clots that have occurred in a small number of people who were recently vaccinated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab. It says the balance of benefits versus risks is in favour of vaccination and the jab can prevent serious and deadly Covid-19 infections. The evidence does not suggest the AstraZeneca vaccine causes common blood clots.

However, it is continuing to investigate a very rare and specific type of blood clot that can occur in the brain. There have been five reported cases of cerebral venous sinus thromboembolism so far in the UK among 11 million people vaccinated. All five were men, ranging in age from 19 to 59, and one died. No link with the vaccine has been established and these rare clots can happen naturally. Covid infections also increase the risk of these clots.

 

[Cardboard elk]

13 cases found in Germany. Age from 12-63. 3/13 dead. Out of 1,6 million doses. I do not know how many it is that had 2 doses.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Looks like they’ve ruled out any additional risk of standard clotting but there have been 5 incidents of the type reported in Norway - just published on BBC now:

Public can have confidence in Covid vaccines - UK regulator

The public can have confidence in the approved Covid vaccines, the UK's medicines regulator says.

The MHRA has been exploring reports of clots that have occurred in a small number of people who were recently vaccinated with the Oxford-AstraZeneca jab. It says the balance of benefits versus risks is in favour of vaccination and the jab can prevent serious and deadly Covid-19 infections. The evidence does not suggest the AstraZeneca vaccine causes common blood clots.

However, it is continuing to investigate a very rare and specific type of blood clot that can occur in the brain. There have been five reported cases of cerebral venous sinus thromboembolism so far in the UK among 11 million people vaccinated. All five were men, ranging in age from 19 to 59, and one died. No link with the vaccine has been established and these rare clots can happen naturally. Covid infections also increase the risk of these clots.

Good stuff. Although them all being male rules out my OCP theory.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

If you survive that kind of clotting do you make a full recovery?

 

[11101]

Boris is headlining today’s press conference which is unusual as he normally only works a Wednesday. I don’t remember the chief executive of the MHRA being at one before either.

“The prime minister will be speaking at 17:00 GMT and will be joined by the Chief Medical Officer for England Prof Chris Whitty and Dr June Raine, the chief executive of the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency.”

I don't suppose it's a coincidence the EMA announcement will be at 16:00 GMT.

 

[lynchie]

13 cases found in Germany. Age from 12-63. 3/13 dead. Out of 1,6 million doses. I do not know how many it is that had 2 doses.

Is that a typo for 21? I assume Germany aren't vaccinating 12 year olds?

 

[cyberman]

So have we decided the AZ vaccine is a death sentence now? I'm not sure I follow or are you just being dramatic?

Its about measuring risk against way of life, or so we are told. Shouldn't those same people take this risk and free up more favourable vaccines for others to get the economy up and running?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

MHRA advice is to seek medical help if persistent headache or unexplained bruising after vaccination. Simple but useful advice that could save lives.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

EU concludes the AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and effective

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19...zeneca-vaccine-is-safe-and-effective-12249663

 

[11101]

EMA basically saying they haven't got enough evidence to definitively say whether the rare clotting events are caused by the vaccine or not and will keep monitoring it, but they don't see a link so far and are sure the vaccine benefits outweigh the risks. They will continue to monitor it and recommend a warning to HCWs and the general public of what to look out for.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

EMA basically saying they haven't got enough evidence to definitively say whether the rare clotting events are caused by the vaccine or not and will keep monitoring it, but they don't see a link so far and are sure the vaccine benefits outweigh the risks. They will continue to monitor it and recommend a warning to HCWs and the general public of what to look out for.

Same as the MHRA then. Good. As I said above, even simple advice re persistent headaches could save lives.

 

[Phil]

MHRA advice is to seek medical help if persistent headache or unexplained bruising after vaccination. Simple but useful advice that could save lives.

Is that either vaccine or just referencing AZ?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Is that either vaccine or just referencing AZ?

Just AZ

Although solid advice for all the vaccines. Better safe than sorry, right?

 

[TheReligion]

Its about measuring risk against way of life, or so we are told. Shouldn't those same people take this risk and free up more favourable vaccines for others to get the economy up and running?

@redshaw

BBC News - EU agency says AstraZeneca vaccine is 'safe and effective'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56440139

BBC News - AstraZeneca: UK clot review confirms safety of vaccine
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56447367

 

[Wolverine]

More on what EMA has said here. Sensible, pragmatic decision
https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/c...-risks-despite-possible-link-rare-blood-clots
And if you're nerdy enough like me to sit through their press conference while at work

 

[Phil]

Just AZ

Although solid advice for all the vaccines. Better safe than sorry, right?

Thanks. I'm still struggling with headaches from Pfizer last weekend, so it looks like I'll have to get in touch if nothing changes tomorrow.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

EMA recommendations re seeking medical help after vaccination:

• 
  However, if you get any of the following after receiving the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca:
  • breathlessness,
  • pain in the chest or stomach,
  • swelling or coldness in an arm or leg,
  • severe or worsening headache or blurred vision after vaccination,
  • persistent bleeding,
  • multiple small bruises, reddish or purplish spots, or blood blisters under the skin

please seek prompt medical assistance and mention your recent vaccination.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Thanks. I'm still struggling with headaches from Pfizer last weekend, so it looks like I'll have to get in touch if nothing changes tomorrow.

Yeah, almost certainly nothing to worry about but no harm getting checked out.

 

[Revan]

EMA saying that AZ is safe and that the vaccination process should continue is very good news. Hopefully EU fixes its shit and starts vaccinating people faster.

 

[Kill 'em all]

If you take a sample of 1.6m doses, let's say that means 800,000 individuals got both doses. If something happens to some of those 800,000 people during the process it doesn't mean that its the vaccines fault. It's a stupid assumption that's being thrown around by the media. Even if they didn't take the vaccine, in the same timeframe the same amount of people could still die or develop something bad. People used to get sick before covid or the vaccine existed.

 

[Wolverine]

Boris Johnson getting the AstraZeneca jab tomorrow.

 

[TheReligion]

Boris Johnson getting the AstraZeneca jab tomorrow.

@cyberman

 

[golden_blunder]

Let’s hope ireland restart soon

 

[Cardboard elk]

EMA saying that AZ is safe and that the vaccination process should continue is very good news. Hopefully EU fixes its shit and starts vaccinating people faster.

The EMA concluded that the benefits were better than the risks, and could not conclude that the problems discussed was not related to the vaccine. So they have really not come up with any news related to these cases, and had not gotten the translated norwegian study report when they said these things.

In Norway there are now 6 in hospital and 2 dead, believed to be due to immune responses to the vaccine.

 

[forevrared]

Just booked my first Moderna shot for Saturday. Haven't seen my family (who are all vaccinated now) in over a year and this paves the way to head home for a visit.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The EMA concluded that the benefits were better than the risks, and could not conclude that the problems discussed was not related to the vaccine. So they have really not come up with any news related to these cases, and had not gotten the translated norwegian study report when they said these things.

In Norway there are now 6 in hospital and 2 dead, believed to be due to immune responses to the vaccine.

How do you know this?

 

[TheReligion]

The EMA concluded that the benefits were better than the risks, and could not conclude that the problems discussed was not related to the vaccine. So they have really not come up with any news related to these cases, and had not gotten the translated norwegian study report when they said these things.

In Norway there are now 6 in hospital and 2 dead, believed to be due to immune responses to the vaccine.

I think if you're going to make statements like that you need to back them up with facts.

 

[Mickeza]

It’s in Norwegian but it looks like they’re investigating another death that they think is potentially linked. A total of 6 possible cases - out of 120,000 vaccines given - which is much higher than what’s been observed in Germany and the U.K.

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/...a-zeneca-vaksinen-endres-etter-krav-fra-norge

 

[tinfish]

You're right in general terms. The statistics for most of Europe suggest that with the current case rate postponing vaccines even by a few days, will lead to more deaths than the possible deaths observed due to adverse reactions.

But ethically and morally, when you give vaccines to healthy people, especially those who have a low personal risk from the disease, you have to set your standards higher. The ones who die from an adverse reaction are not necessarily people who were going to die from covid.

The holds arise from small numbers of unusual cases appearing in a short period. With incidents being monitored more carefully than normal, odd coincidences can happen. Equally though, something real may be happening.

If it turns out that a production batch, or the distribution and dispensing system was faulty in some way, then the lessons could be important globally. If we can find out more about the people affected, then we might discover something that allows us to predict adverse reactions and steer some people to a different vaccine or no vaccine.

Lots of people are vulnerable to blood clots and to platelet damage, and it clearly doesn't affect all of them - else the UK would have seen it. If it turns out that the effect gets magnified if you're low on vitamin B12, take the contraceptive pill and gets migraines, or something equally random, then it becomes the starting point for discovering a whole lot more about the vaccines and beyond.

Excellent reply. Thankyou

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It’s in Norwegian but it looks like they’re investigating another death that they think is potentially linked. A total of 6 possible cases - out of 120,000 vaccines given - which is much higher than what’s been observed in Germany and the U.K.

https://www.aftenposten.no/norge/i/...a-zeneca-vaksinen-endres-etter-krav-fra-norge

It’s really odd. I wonder if Norway has a PV surveillance process that is somehow much more robust than the (somewhat flawed) yellow card system?

Although it is also possible it’s just a freakish, completely against the odds occurrence. Like throwing a coin and getting 10 heads in a row. Stuff like that can happen. I’m rubbish at stats but hopefully there are hardcore statisticians crunching numbers here.

 

[Jake]

I had the AZ one yesterday. Feeling a bit rough today I must admit.

 

[F-Red]

I had the AZ one yesterday. Feeling a bit rough today I must admit.

Hangover style feelings? I had mine last Friday and Saturday felt like I was on the sauce all day Friday. Weirdly a chicken kebab brought me round on Saturday evening, my arm stopped aching on Wednesday.

 

[RoyH1]

The US, (that has not yet approved Astra Zeneca for use) is sharing some of its stock with Canada and Mexico. Crazy to think that they can have 4 million vaccines in stock for a product they yet have to approve. In any case, it makes sense for them to share with their neighbors considering the mobility in those border areas (specially Mexico)

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/18/us-astrazeneca-vaccine-doses-mexico-canada

 

[Jake]

Hangover style feelings? I had mine last Friday and Saturday felt like I was on the sauce all day Friday. Weirdly a chicken kebab brought me round on Saturday evening, my arm stopped aching on Wednesday.

Yeah, and I was shivering in the night, had an awful nights sleep and got a headache today.

My arm is completely dead now, really sore.

Might have to try your remedy tonight

 

[TheReligion]

Hangover style feelings? I had mine last Friday and Saturday felt like I was on the sauce all day Friday. Weirdly a chicken kebab brought me round on Saturday evening, my arm stopped aching on Wednesday.

The Public Health England recommend chicken kebab. Will cure all that ails yer.