[Harry190]

If you ask him to break the opponent's play, he's top notch, but he can't do the other stuff.

 

[Raven]

Fred and Pogba is our best midfield, easily, it really annoys me that Ole often elects to go with McTominay over Fred. I love McTominay but he should be Pogba's back up, not Fred's.

 

[Adam-Utd]

The whole team was poor first half, not sure what happened but they seemed a bit too over excited/nervous?

2nd half it really settled down and getting the goal quickly helped a lot. Fred was great from that point.

I think we all know his limitations now so being surprised about it every game is a bit odd to me.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

He was great yesterday, he and McT both had success at getting the ball off Kessie and Maite quickly as soon as it went in to them they were right on them and one the ball back a few times that way. His passing was pretty good yesterday too. Spreading the ball left or right footed. If not for Lindelof probably MOTM.

 

[Falcow]

It was in response to me calling him a pest which I meant in a good way.
That moment is typical Fred, amongst it causing chaos, not a great pass or shot or skill just wind milling in and we get the break.

He 100% needs pogba and Bruno

get a upgrade on mctom and maybe that would help should one of those two be missing

Yeah fully agree, he can do the dirty work but not so much the creative stuff, however there was no goal if Fred didnt block that clearance on 6 yard line.

 

[stevoc]

The whole team was poor first half, not sure what happened but they seemed a bit too over excited/nervous?

2nd half it really settled down and getting the goal quickly helped a lot. Fred was great from that point.

I think we all know his limitations now so being surprised about it every game is a bit odd to me.

What makes you think people are surprised every game by it?

 

[Raven]

Yeah fully agree, he can do the dirty work but not so much the creative stuff, however there was no goal if Fred didnt block that clearance on 6 yard line.

He's really good at starting attacking moves with his pressing, one of his biggest strengths I would say.

 

[Adam-Utd]

What makes you think people are surprised every game by it?

I see the same people coming in saying "oh fred is so sloppy, gives the ball away, runs around like a headless chicken" like yes we know what he needs to improve on, but they also ignore what he's fantastic at.

The thing I like about him the most is he never hides. He's always there to support the defence, he's always there to support the attack.

 

[Raven]

I see the same people coming in saying "oh fred is so sloppy, gives the ball away, runs around like a headless chicken" like yes we know what he needs to improve on, but they also ignore what he's fantastic at.

The thing I like about him the most is he never hides. He's always there to support the defence, he's always there to support the attack.

He's always on his toes and moving around, which is essential to our defensive play but can also make him impossible to mark and when he gets his touch and passing right like he did in the second half yesterday, he can be quite devastating.

 

[stevoc]

I see the same people coming in saying "oh fred is so sloppy, gives the ball away, runs around like a headless chicken" like yes we know what he needs to improve on, but they also ignore what he's fantastic at.

The thing I like about him the most is he never hides. He's always there to support the defence, he's always there to support the attack.

Plenty of people (often the same people) regularly comment on what he's good at too. No one is surprised by what he's good and bad at i don't think. People are for the most part just commenting positively and negatively on his performances and this is after all the thread for that.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Plenty of people (often the same people) regularly comment on what he's good at too. No one is surprised by what he's good and bad at i don't think. People are for the most part just commenting positively and negatively on his performances and this is after all the thread for that.

I just don't see the point of people saying "bad at passing, must upgrade" when he isn't really in the team to be a creative passer. He's a water carrier.

This is why most of us think he and Pogba are the best midfield combination, it's a very similar partnership to what he has with Kante at France.

 

[Davie Moyes]

He's really good at starting attacking moves with his pressing, one of his biggest strengths I would say.

This is spot on. He is crucial to starting our counter attacks by pressing and winning the ball and mainly passing to Bruno for the killer balls.

Watching the first half I was concerned by our passing, possession and limited chance creation. However what gave me hope was when we pressed their midfield we did win the ball on enough occasions which is where I felt our goal could come from.

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I just don't see the point of people saying "bad at passing, must upgrade" when he isn't really in the team to be a creative passer. He's a water carrier.

This is why most of us think he and Pogba are the best midfield combination, it's a very similar partnership to what he has with Kante at France.

Fully agree that's our best partnership. Too bad Ole doesn't trust it in big games. I hope we go for a DM that can partner either of them. Someone that's big and strong but can also pass and shoot. A Zakaria/Gravenberch/Bazoer type. They'd replace Matic in the squad and McTominay would keep his spot. I like Scott, but he passes like an English CB.

 

[Raven]

This is spot on. He is crucial to starting our counter attacks by pressing and winning the ball and mainly passing to Bruno for the killer balls.

Watching the first half I was concerned by our passing, possession and limited chance creation. However what gave me hope was when we pressed their midfield we did win the ball on enough occasions which is where I felt our goal could come from.

I think Matic wasn't good enough last week, he's physically a bit spent and he dawdles on the ball, Fred brings us a lot more even though his passing is erratic this season.

 

[stevoc]

I just don't see the point of people saying "bad at passing, must upgrade" when he isn't really in the team to be a creative passer. He's a water carrier.

This is why most of us think he and Pogba are the best midfield combination, it's a very similar partnership to what he has with Kante at France.

Well let's be honest here mate when a player has a glaring weakness in their game it's going to be brought up regularly, most likely after each performance. In a thread dedicated to discussing that players performances, that shouldn't surprise any of us.

 

[KennyBurner]

Freds erratic touch is what lets him down. There are times when he just miscontrols it out of nowhere and Im hear thinking wtf? I thought he was good enough but we need a better controller. He cant string/dictate together consistent passes even though he has a good weighted ball on him.

 

[Raven]

Freds erratic touch is what lets him down. There are times when he just miscontrols it out of nowhere and Im hear thinking wtf? I thought he was good enough but we need a better controller. He cant string/dictate together consistent passes even though he has a good weighted ball on him.

Yeah, last season he was far better, his touch and passing was much more consistent and he was harshly dropped for the post lockdown run of games, but Matic was in good form. This season his touch and passing has been very erratic, varying from very good to what the feck in an instant. His energy, positioning and pressing is absolutely vital to the way we play though so I'm hoping that the second half yesterday and his last game against West Ham are a return to the sort of form we saw last season.

 

[KennyBurner]

Yeah, last season he was far better, his touch and passing was much more consistent and he was harshly dropped for the post lockdown run of games, but Matic was in good form. This season his touch and passing has been very erratic, varying from very good to what the feck in an instant. His energy, positioning and pressing is absolutely vital to the way we play though so I'm hoping that the second half yesterday and his last game against West Ham are a return to the sort of form we saw last season.

Its why I dont focus on his flaws a lot. Still we cant ignore him not dictating tempo on a consistent basis. We need consistency in the team because we already have too many players that cant hold the ball all over the pitch, having that in the middle also isnt acceptable.

 

[Raven]

Its why I dont focus on his flaws a lot. Still we cant ignore him not dictating tempo on a consistent basis. We need consistency in the team because we already have too many players that cant hold the ball all over the pitch, having that in the middle also isnt acceptable.

True, but I think Fred has been in poor form and think he's capable of much better, like he's been showing a bit of lately.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well let's be honest here mate when a player has a glaring weakness in their game it's going to be brought up regularly, most likely after each performance. In a thread dedicated to discussing that players performances, that shouldn't surprise any of us.

His passing was excellent last night. First half his touch let him down. Plus he was losing out in 50:50s. Second half his overall game improved but he passed the ball very well from start to finish. So it’s definitely churlish to bring up this “glaring weakness” after this specific match.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Easily our best DM, best presser, covers the most ground and for defenders, that alone should grant him a palce in the team which lacks hugely in that department. On top his passing is always very quick, which gives our game a tempo, pretty much non of the midfielders do that apart Fernandes who´s superwasteful. He´s got solid vision but obviously he´s asked to playe it quicker and simpler toto keep up the tempo high. Also had an"assist" last game whichwill again go unnoticed. but he did nothing going forward right:-)

Pogba-Fred-Bruno for the rest of the season for the strong finish. Any other midfield and we will look slow, without ideas or with little defensive protection but rotations will come to keep players fresh.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Anyone have stats on number of touches? I like McT (because he’s homegrown etc) but he definitely seems to struggle to make himself available for a pass. Whereas Fred seems to touch the ball almost more than any other player. Constantly involved, all over the pitch.

 

[stevoc]

His passing was excellent last night. First half his touch let him down. Plus he was losing out in 50:50s. Second half his overall game improved but he passed the ball very well from start to finish. So it’s definitely churlish to bring up this “glaring weakness” after this specific match.

Well to be fair i haven't actually commented on his passing last night. Just pointing out that people will criticize aspects of a players performance in their performance thread.

But also i don't think it's too harsh for some to criticize his passing last night as it was not great in that first half. Much better in the second half granted.

 

[Litch]

Just because he was better doesn't mean he's the standard required.

It's all about opinions. He plays, we don't lose and more than likely win. The only goal yesterday comes about because of Fred. Can have his brain fart moments like most players but if we were playing the CL final tmw, he starts.

Played with lots of players and against at different levels like Fred, people don't rate them from the side but those that play with them, love them and playing against them, hate them. They are often the heartbeat of the team even if they aren't the best player.

 

[villain]

It's all about opinions. He plays, we don't lose and more than likely win. The only goal yesterday comes about because of Fred. Can have his brain fart moments like most players but if we were playing the CL final tmw, he starts.

Played with lots of players and against at different levels like Fred, people don't rate them from the side but those that play with them, love them and playing against them, hate them. They are often the heartbeat of the team even if they aren't the best player.

I understand that there are fans who prefer the workhorse in midfield who will run around for the entire game, like Fred. I personally think we won't be consistently challenging for titles and back among the European elite if he is a starter in our team. We need more players who can create chances, are better on the ball and have a wider range of passing ability. He can certainly be a squad option to provide depth, I don't think I have insulted him in any way, he's just not the standard we need to take us to the next level.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Either biased against or for him let's be fair here, he seems to split opinion like few other players can. Going off this thread he's either one of our most important players or one of our worst and holding us back. I suspect the truth lies somewhere in between those polarized opinions.

I think most people who rate him, like myself, can agree that he is sloppy at times and could chip in with a few more goals and assists but some of those who don’t rate him just blatantly lie and reckon he’s championship level without any praise whatsoever. I regularly see ‘can’t pass or shoot’, which is just not true.

 

[AgentSmith]

I think most people who rate him, like myself, can agree that he is sloppy at times and could chip in with a few more goals and assists but some of those who don’t rate him just blatantly lie and reckon he’s championship level without any praise whatsoever. I regularly see ‘can’t pass or shoot’, which is just not true.

I’m a similarly big Fred fan and think he’s brilliant when used correctly.

But be fair now, the man cannot shoot.

 

[The Irish Connection]

I’m a similarly big Fred fan and think he’s brilliant when used correctly.

But be fair now, the man cannot shoot.

Hahaha, I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.
Look at his highlights from Shaktar on YouTube. Also, you have seen him take free kicks or stand over them for us, he wouldn’t be there if he wasn’t doing it in training. If you’re at a game (in hopefully the near future) watch him in the warm up, I’ve seen him score a screamer from about 20 yards. He prefers to curl them but to say he can’t shoot is wrong.

 

[AgentSmith]

Hahaha, I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.
Look at his highlights from Shaktar on YouTube. Also, you have seen him take free kicks or stand over them for us, he wouldn’t be there if he wasn’t doing it in training. If you’re at a game (in hopefully the near future) watch him in the warm up, I’ve seen him score a screamer from about 20 yards. He prefers to curl them but to say he can’t shoot is wrong.

Well I was only being 1/2 serious. He’s a professional footballer, of course he can shoot to a high level.

It’s just he rarely, if ever, demonstrates it in game. Whereas there’s a lot of examples of him either shanking it or making a weak connection.

Fred has a lot of strengths but the ability to shoot in game is not one of them.

 

[The Irish Connection]

Well I was only being 1/2 serious. He’s a professional footballer, of course he can shoot to a high level.

It’s just he rarely, if ever, demonstrates it in game. Whereas there’s a lot of examples of him either shanking it or making a weak connection.

Fred has a lot of strengths but the ability to shoot in game is not one of them.

Fair enough. I disagree. For whatever reason, he hasn’t scored a long range shot for us but every player has poor shots. I reckon he will get one soon though. He scored some screamers for shaktar.

 

[Redlyn]

Hahaha, I can’t tell if you’re being serious or not.
Look at his highlights from Shaktar on YouTube. Also, you have seen him take free kicks or stand over them for us, he wouldn’t be there if he wasn’t doing it in training. If you’re at a game (in hopefully the near future) watch him in the warm up, I’ve seen him score a screamer from about 20 yards. He prefers to curl them but to say he can’t shoot is wrong.

As a reason to believe in his ability that one is pretty funny.
I literally cheered when he had that shot on target yesterday. I am going by 2 years of watching him try to score from distance almost every match. It's not even that he is not scoring, its just how pathetic the attempts are.
Until he translates some of those youtube videos or training curlers you mention into a live situation for US, I remain amused by his incredibly bad shooting.

 

[The Irish Connection]

As a reason to believe in his ability that one is pretty funny.
I literally cheered when he had that shot on target yesterday. I am going by 2 years of watching him try to score from distance almost every match. It's not even that he is not scoring, its just how pathetic the attempts are.
Until he translates some of those youtube videos or training curlers you mention into a live situation for US, I remain amused by his incredibly bad shooting.

But he wouldn’t be near them if he wasn’t doing it in training. I bet you if you asked one of the players, can Fred shoot? They’d tell you yes and well. I will remain amused by the incredibly off opinions some have on him.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Fair play to him, his pressing and winning of the ball got us the goal, but it was the typical Fred huffing and puffing with no real quality performance.

Glad Pogba is back. He'll help cover up some of Fred's deficiencies and vice versa.

 

[Redlyn]

But he wouldn’t be near them if he wasn’t doing it in training. I bet you if you asked one of the players, can Fred shoot? They’d tell you yes and well. I will remain amused by the incredibly off opinions some have on him.

He probably fancies himself, which doesn't automatically make him good.
3 in 109 for united is the FACT of the matter, not opinion. Hopefully he can score more goals soon.

 

[stevoc]

I think most people who rate him, like myself, can agree that he is sloppy at times and could chip in with a few more goals and assists but some of those who don’t rate him just blatantly lie and reckon he’s championship level without any praise whatsoever. I regularly see ‘can’t pass or shoot’, which is just not true.

Has anyone actually said that though? I can't remember seeing it if they have.

Every footballer can pass and shoot with varying degrees of proficiency. Fred's not amazing at the former and should stop attempting the latter.

 

[Ali Dia]

I understand that there are fans who prefer the workhorse in midfield who will run around for the entire game, like Fred. I personally think we won't be consistently challenging for titles and back among the European elite if he is a starter in our team. We need more players who can create chances, are better on the ball and have a wider range of passing ability. He can certainly be a squad option to provide depth, I don't think I have insulted him in any way, he's just not the standard we need to take us to the next level.

It’s our forwards who need to create more if we want to be elite level. Fred is holding the team together while Bruno and our forwards waste promising positions for fun. His press in the next phase is very important to the way we play.

 

[villain]

It’s our forwards who need to create more if we want to be elite level. Fred is holding the team together while Bruno and our forwards waste promising positions for fun. His press in the next phase is very important to the way we play.

Every top team needs CM's who can get involved in the attacking play, or at the very least are comfortable enough in possession to play passes that can lead to an attacking phase of play, especially against teams who sit deep against us.

It's been a feature that has been missing from our attacking play since Pogba has been out because what the opposition can do when we have possession is sit behind the ball, and the men who are assigned to guard Fred & McTominay, can instead double up on Bruno, Shaw & Rashford or AWB & Greenwood/James and starve them of space. Fred doesn't then have the ability (or confidence in his ability) to provide the passes for Cavani's runs over the top, or play a through ball to feet for Rashford, or get involved in a give & go with Martial/Bruno in the way Pogba does.

Fred's press & work rate are his strengths, but it's not like he can't be improved upon. His passing ability isn't where it needs to be for a CM.
Like I said, he should be a squad player, because if we keep Pogba we need a proper CDM, if Pogba leaves we will still need a CDM and a creative CM.

 

[Poborsky's hair]

Anyone have stats on number of touches? I like McT (because he’s homegrown etc) but he definitely seems to struggle to make himself available for a pass. Whereas Fred seems to touch the ball almost more than any other player. Constantly involved, all over the pitch.

They are miles from each other in terms of ability. Fred plays game in much higher tempo, not only he´s defending around the whole pitch but he´s always starting all attacks being available in all sorts of position while McTominay is hiding not imposing on the game enough and really slowly closing down players with really bad positioning at times. There is huge bias towards some players from south america on the british isles I reckon. Players with high pricetag always have to do much more then players without while it´s all bull. When we finally upgrade on McTominay and demote him to the squad role he belongs we will see some football. Really switch Mark Noble for Scott and I even think we would do better. He´s a good lad but he wouldn´t lift a team like Southampton one bit in midfield. It shows when he plays for Scotland, he´s absolutely average.

 

[Litch]

I understand that there are fans who prefer the workhorse in midfield who will run around for the entire game, like Fred. I personally think we won't be consistently challenging for titles and back among the European elite if he is a starter in our team. We need more players who can create chances, are better on the ball and have a wider range of passing ability. He can certainly be a squad option to provide depth, I don't think I have insulted him in any way, he's just not the standard we need to take us to the next level.

Like said, football is all about opinions. Please who is this CDM that everyone wants? Which CDM is creative, passing ability and scores, along with pressing etc.

 

[villain]

Like said, football is all about opinions. Please who is this CDM that everyone wants? Which CDM is creative, passing ability and scores, along with pressing etc.

When did I say we need a CDM who does everything?
I'm saying I would prefer a CDM who is better than Fred and has more composure with the ball at his feet.