there is no trend, you're using every negative moment and trying to string it all together to create a narrative. Stop talking about what happened when we went top of the league, we were never good enough to be there in the first place and were certainly never going to stay there
Our Collapses
- Thread starter SER19
- Start date
What about a squad that can beat Istanbul? How does what you say have any bearing on these shocking results when it matters??
A huge quarter final tie and Ole chooses to play a massively weakened team. PLUS we have no upcoming games due to the International break...
I fail to see any logic to this and to top it all off, Ole doesn't make any subs until around the 70th minute! This is criminal management and he has has has to go.
He has done well in terms of stabilising us and getting rid of some deadwood, but we need to push on now.
I fail to see any logic to this and to top it all off, Ole doesn't make any subs until around the 70th minute! This is criminal management and he has has has to go.
He has done well in terms of stabilising us and getting rid of some deadwood, but we need to push on now.
The squad is neither good nor deep enough to fight on all fronts and our form is scratchy at best just now but the calibre of the knockout performances the OP highlights goes beyond a stretched squad struggling for that extra push over the line; we've been beyond diabolical v Sevilla, Chelsea, Leicester and City twice, while our exit from the CL group this year (particularly that game in Istanbul) was farcical.
On our day we can beat anyone, when we're struggling a bit of individual brilliance can bail us out but when we're bad a team of enthusiastic schoolboys could give us a match. It's a head scratcher for Ole why we turn in those genuinely rancid performances so often when the heat is on.
Im not, im just not tacking everything on to a loss.
Getting to a semi final is enough, trying to add anything else is a mugs game.
For this to be true, it would mean we cpuld take or leave a fa cup semi final before we knew we could play cannon fodder Southampton.
Does that make sense to you?
Christ. But we have been consistent haven’t we? 3rd last year, sitting 2nd this year with 9 games to go. 29 unbeaten away from home domestically before today. 3 semi finals in two years, with a really good chance of another this year in the EL.
This is the most consistent we’ve been over a sustained period since Fergie left, and we’ve massively rebuilt the squad with a lot of young talent.
No one is saying semi finals are “good enough” but the progress and consistency is as plain as the nose on your face. And you have to let the work continue, because the man inherited an almighty mess and the trajectory has been nothing but solid.
Football teams have bad days. It happens. You lose games sometimes. It isn’t about never losing, it’s about how you bounce back. Football fans are just so reactionary, like they never have a bad day at the office.
Your knee must be sore from how hard it’s jerking. Get a grip.
Players like Fred are underrated in the extreme because of how they are used. He was bought because of the outrageous stats he produced as a pressing midfielder and he isn’t being coached or used properly.
Our full backs are better, our keeper was one of the best in the league last season. Our center backs are certainly better footballers and our forwards are vastly more talented.
I ignored the rest because it doesn’t make sense. He goes out of every tournament, usually against lesser opposition, so what is he prioritizing? Whether it’s Sevilla, Istanbul or Leicester, it’s not good enough.
I am not going to play down the ability of our squad, and I’m certainly not going to give him an excuse because he failed to rotate the squad to win the appropriate games.
He isn’t good enough and the evidence is clear now.
I cant believe you can’t see a trend between pretty much all of our semi final performances, and today when we knew what was at stake, and the CL collapse. Yes we were never going to win the league but the timing of our drop off was very coincidental.Even if you leave that out, there’s still a clear trend of passing up opportunities with a whimper. Not even a red card in anger, just tepid, timid wilting out of competitions when a final is in touching distance
In this case, they very nearly literally are. There are deep narcissists in major positions of power at the club. That's a big no-no in any organization.
The average joe/poster doesn't realize that the bolded Richard Arnold quote in Nickelodeon's post is the same psychological mechanism at work as in Trump's 'no one knows more about __________ than me' type quotes.
EDIT: Regarding SAF being able to win with the second string; a considerable part of that is down to keeping wages within 20-30% from player to player. He treated the 'squad' players like first-and-a-half teamers, if you will. Gave them 'random' starts (remember all those 'WTF why is ________ starting Jesus Christ the sky is falling') to earn their trust and keep them motivated. They knew their roles to just do enough to keep the wins going and spell the big guns for the bigger games. Your Chicharitos, your Parks, your O Sheas would go into those 'lesser' games with a triple mindset of 'I want to win. I want to prove I can start. I want to help rest ________ completely for the upcoming game.' Then all you have to do as a manager is let them loose. To be fair, it *is* somewhat easier said than done: 1. You have to scout the players mentalities well. 2. You have to keep winning. 3. You have to not create too big of a pay disparity. But it's not *that* hard.
This is also related to why even a single Pogba in the locker room can torpedo any hope of this type of squad mentality.
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I think 5 losses in this manner, in 12 months with a final in reach, should be a concern for anybody. Again, there is no problem with going out fighting. The manner of our losses has been so sad to watch
well I don't share your narrative so no why would I see the same trend
The squad is much better this season, but many players are only just coming back from injury. Pogba, Martial, VDB, Cavani. And everybody else played in a grueling match in Milan. Two more tough trips to Wembley could have scuppered our season. Let's go all in on the Uefa cup and close the gap on City. Still progress.
5 losses of the same tepid manner in 12 months when a final was in reach is a trend to me. Its not to you,so agree to disagree. But still no need to get petty
I'm just surprised by this team's ability to go on sterling runs that lead to nothing.
I just can’t take this sort of defence. I am writing in a football forum after a game. Believe me, I have a grip! You are allowed to have an opinion about football without being accused of not “having a grip”. Weird thing to say.
This is Manchester United and people are trying to say we are on the same level as Leicester City. We are not. Our players are superior.
I am not asking for Ole’s execution for goodness sake. I am asking that a club of our size has a coach befitting of the role.
The football in 2021 has been so poor, the only reason we are second and not a distant third again is because Liverpool collapsed. Mediocrity is not consistency.
Those young players you talk about aren’t improving. Rashford is still the same player making the same poor decisions as he was two years ago, despite his insane ability. Greenwood is standing still. Martial has gone backwards.
We know what these players are capable of and we are wasting them under a coach that is not improving them as players. We have more ups and downs in terms of our performance levels than a rollercoaster.
It needs to stop. The standards need to return and we need a coach that is capable of getting consistent performances out of an immensely talented squad.
It’s a perfectly valid opinion to have whether you are happy with the football on show or not.
“Get a grip” because I don’t agree with you? I was with you and your opinion until you ended on that note.
Because there are factors that affect these games and performances. You could easily say City should beat every team in the league, CL, League Cup & FA Cup. You could say that every cup should have the four best teams in the league in the Semi's and the CL should have the best team from each of the top leagues in the final 4.
Liverpool won the League and CL because they could field their first 11, fit and healthy every game, because they dropped the other two comps.
Leicester should have beaten Slavia too.
Poch isn't good enough either then, nor Rodgers. Tuchel isn't either, he failed emphatically when it mattered at PSG. I'm starting to wonder who is good enough, by your logic?
Fred is not underrated in the slightest, no one of their players misplaced a pass as simple as Fred today, that's not coaching, that it the player. His Stats are from an inferior league.
Oh, and did you spot him grinning like a Tw@t during the post-match interview?? If that was Moyes/any manager we've ever had, they'd have been hung up to dry. He's fecking feeble in these moments
So your three examples of managers who also aren’t good enough are two managers who have never managed a club as big as United with the players that Man United have, but have elevated the performance of the team in every job they have ever had and another who won 6 trophies in his last job?
We are obviously seeing the situation very differently.
So Tuchel who won a one horse race. And two managers who won nothing even when they were the only horse in their race in respective seasons. As if winning a EL, FA cup or league cup was beyond their teams too.
Only when it suits aye.
Yes, elite athletes who if have less rest, perform worse than similar elite athletes with more rest. Fine margins.
You realise rest is important at that level right?
This. It is just to much fatigue. The fitness on Leicester looked a lot better. A weeks rest helps tbf.They are not a shit team either.
People like to pretend we are so much better than leicester that something as important as rest and recovery doesn't matter.
Until we lose and then berate how bad they are.
Rodgers almost won the PL with Liverpool for the first time in their history and absolutely dominated when he was the top dog in Scotland. Poch had the 6th or 7th highest salary in the league and had summers with no players coming in at all and he still got top 4 and got to a CL final with Spurs of all teams. It’s a fallacy to compare them to United, and he still outperformed.
I am not a big Tuchel fan but at least he has the trophies.
Call me when Ole does any of the former at a far bigger club with superior resources, or even the latter at any club outside of Norway.
You won’t see it happen.
With all respect but this is ignorant. There are studies showing that if players have less than 4 days of recovery, it will influence their game. 2 days like in our case, and it will absolutely influence performance.
It’s not hard to run a marathon per day for a month, but there is a reason why elite runners only run a few marathons per year.
Have you watched us for the last seven years? That isn't news to anyone... I feel like some fans forget that.
According to some of you lot it’s not possible to both lose a one-off knockout game and have a good mentality. Every loss = collapsing/bottling/fragile mentality.
Liverpool in the FA Cup was a high stakes game. We won. Same with City at the Etihad. Same with plenty of other games this season. We’ve also lost a few games of equal importance. Sometimes other teams just beat us. You don’t have to pinpoint the exact cause like some professor of football. Nobody thinks you’re clever.
Exhausting reading some of these reactions. You make me cringe
Liverpool in the FA Cup was a high stakes game. We won. Same with City at the Etihad. Same with plenty of other games this season. We’ve also lost a few games of equal importance. Sometimes other teams just beat us. You don’t have to pinpoint the exact cause like some professor of football. Nobody thinks you’re clever.
Exhausting reading some of these reactions. You make me cringe
Scrap the sports science department. It's all nonsense because I can manage a kickabout with my mates 3 times a week.
I’m sure if you asked them to deliver a cross they’d send it into the stands. It does not matter that they’re elite athletes. Playing this often will absolutely influence a player in a negative way. The schedule is the most packed it has ever been. Every team bar City has struggled. They’re human. That’s not even covering the mental fatigue of it all.
Get better owners.
That’s it.
whilst we’re stuck with people running the club who couldn’t give a shit whether we do well as a football team this will carry on and on and on
That’s it.
whilst we’re stuck with people running the club who couldn’t give a shit whether we do well as a football team this will carry on and on and on
You're arguing with THOSE accolades, really? Poch won nothing. Tuchel won a one horse race. Rodgers failed in a one horse race and got this leicester team knocked out of League Cup and Europa early doors.
Great stuff.
The armchair experts are embarrassing. Some of these posts look like they’ve been plagiarised from Facebook comments.
Exactly. Just before two cup games.
Sorry but this entire post is complete bullshit. Playing 2 games a week for an entire season is insanity. There's been loads of studies that show the influence of fatigue, I'd suggest you read up on some of it rather than just stating these are professionals who get paid a lot they should deal with it. Why do you think NFL seasons are only 16 weeks long? They play only once a week, for 4 months of a year. And then have an 8 month off season. Football has a brutal schedule, players pick up injuries and come back throughout the season or just fatigue more and more and can't keep up a high level without a full week in between games. Games twice a week make your training basically recovery days every time. Thats not sustainable.
In every game one team must bottle it. That seems to be how it works.
Thursday night was bigger than this, the City league game was bigger than this, for me even West Ham last Sunday felt a more crucial game. The Leicester game on the last day of the season was massive. But apparently we always 'collapse'.
735 bottling FA Cup teams and one winner.
This. We are getting better and better, no doubt about it. That said, Leicester are a great team and will beat almost anyone on a good day. So rest and recovery are a huge factor. I feel bad about the match, but it’s not a surprise by any means.
Utter and complete nonsense. Wtf does that even mean?
Fixed (slightly) to have a nice ring to it.
Again. They were managers of Spurs and Leicester respectively. Ole hasn’t even achieved what they did at Manchester United. A club with resources that dwarf those clubs. He has spent nearly £200 million on Maguire, AWB, VdB and Dan James and almost £300 million overall.
You are comparing apples to oranges. Those managers have outperformed him with vastly inferior resources at clubs were there was no expectation to achieve those feats when they arrived.
Manchester United deserve better.