European Super League

Do you want the ESL to happen?

  • Total voters
    1,921
  • Poll closed .

VP89

Pogba's biggest fan
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To be honest, every club should be boo'ing their own players as though it's an away Champions league game, except the entire stadium boos in this instance (home and away fans).

I would happily boo our own players vs Leeds, and that's not because I think the players are the problem but they can be a big driver of the solution. More than likely they will react to the boo'ing and take a stand internally against the managers and owners and create immense internal pressure to have something changed.

We as fans are extremely limted on how we can express our dissatisfaction - and matchdays are the best time to do it. Banners and half time protests, full time protests, marches are never enough. Very few things are bigger than Manchester United for me, but one of them is Football as a sport itself, and that is under threat right now. As is our club.
 

Zlatan 7

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pratyush_utd said:
I don't remember Rashford calling himself Prime minister. They are well off because they are bloody good at something. Don't understand this notion that they earn more money so they should behave differently
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No, but I’d say they earn enough money and will have enough job opportunities if they leave their current club to atleast make some kind of stand. If they play football because they fell in love with the game, the competiveness of the game and dreamed of playing the champions league etc then it would be the right thing to do stop this for future generations to have their chance.

it’s not as if they’re miners on the breadline striking
 

Sara125

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izec said:
Dont think the Glazers would have an incentive for us to be bad all the time and end up last. But they wont invest for us to compete. If we finish midtable, thats enough for them i guess.
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You are giving them too much credit. This is a league with no consequences for ending up last. At most we will become the laughing stock of social media when we are regularly on the negative end of 6, 7-0 scorelines but what do the glazers care when their pockets are practically bursting.
 

Annihilate Now!

...or later, I'm not fussy
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Fair play to Harry if true... I mean it's hard to confront someone when they're cowering in fetal position in the corner of a room.
 

pratyush_utd

Can't tell DeGea and Onana apart.
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VP89 said:
To be honest, every club should be boo'ing their own players as though it's an away Champions league game, except the entire stadium boos in this instance (home and away fans).

I would happily boo our own players vs Leeds, and that's not because I think the players are the problem but they can be a big driver of the solution. More than likely they will react to the boo'ing and take a stand internally against the managers and owners and create immense internal pressure to have something changed.

We as fans are extremely limted on how we can express our dissatisfaction - and matchdays are the best time to do it. Banners and half time protests, full time protests, marches are never enough. Very few things are bigger than Manchester United for me, but one of them is Football as a sport itself, and that is under threat right now. As is our club.
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We could see this in our last game when fans are allowed.
 

That_Bloke

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RedRover said:
I think the clubs have badly miscalculated public feeling and I think UEFA, FIFA and the respective leagues are potentially buoyed by that.

I also think it's arguable that the clubs have overplayed their hand, in terms of leverage. The idea that the PL collapses if these six clubs move on, I don't buy. The product will, obviously be diminished but it's still a saleable product without those teams precisely because it'll have what the ESL won't - competition and a strong league overall.

Some fans on here think the world starts and stops at Man United and Liverpool but forget, Chelsea and Man City are just Everton or Newcastle with billions of pounds. Arsenal and Spurs don't have any more history that loads of other clubs. The rich owners will still be sniffing around the PL and see value in investing and a new "Big 6" may emerge. Millions watch average PL games worldwide every week.

In Spain, Barca and Real have had fortunes in state aid. Are the Spanish Government going to sit by and let them walk away and destroy the League structure? I doubt it.

The legal side will, obviously be extremely complex but all of the PL clubs will, I suspect be contracted to one another to compete in the PL competition. Steve Parish was on MNF last night and made the point that if those six clubs think they can go off and set up their own league, and break with the current contractual agreement, then the other 14 clubs could arguably do likewise and exclude them. The European side of it is more complex again, but as you say, the relevant bodies may well be prepared to put a real marker down.

The threat to stop players playing internationally is significant. Even if they set up their own competitions - how long does that take? Is it ever even viable? Where do all the other players come from you need to support it over and above a 12 team league? Would countries have two national teams and where would the rest of those players play, because it wouldn't be in the FIFA sanctioned leagues. It's a logistical nightmare and a nonsense idea from people who have no idea about football. And the vast majority of the players in the ESL won't be that much better paid (given the projections of income) to make it worthwhile not playing for your national team, especially if you can play for another team in the PL and still get a big salary.
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That's an excellent post, thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yeah it will lose in quality and get less money, obviously but I don't see it collapsing. The Government will jump in at some point if things really go south. It will also even the odds and actually make it exciting since the gap between the teams will be reduced, opening more opportunities for investors in the long term. The downside would be that the ESL teams getting richer and able to buy more players from the other not so lucky clubs. But then again if the FIA and the UEFA indeed manage to kick them out of every competition, where's the appeal for the players? They'd be reduced to play their same 38 odd games in a season, which can become boring fast, and then go home. Money can't compensate for everything. I can't think of many players willing to give a pass on playing for their country in the Euros, AFCON, Copa or the WC.

Like you said on a domestic level, kicking out the top 6 is doable and I don't see any of the 14 other teams objecting to that. On an international level less so, especially with the EU laws, but I suppose that the FIFA and UEFA won't back down either. They'll give instructions to the FAs to simply not call up the ESL players. Also who's going to be ref in ESL? The FIFA won't let any of their own officiate there.

I'm not fond of an even more watered down CL, or a WC in Qatar, and football needs a shake up but this is pure insanity. Unfairly and arbitrarily closing the shop at the highest level, writing their own rules for their own league, while still wanting to prey on the domestic competitions is a piss take that is never going to happen. I've read that some of the founders don't a rat's ass and even want their players to be banned from the international competitions. That gives weight to your assumption that these people neither are interested nor have a clue about football.

It ain't a FU to the UEFA or the FIFA or the oil clubs or whatever some fans like to sugar-coat it. It's been done to save the indebted big clubs in Italy and Spain and the owners of the english big six (Tottenham, lol) saw an opportunity to make even more money. Nothing more nothing less.
 

Reditus

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pratyush_utd said:
Everton did make it to 3rd qualifications in 2005 if I am not wrong. That time it wasn't automatic qualifications for 4th place team
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correct and not long before that Newcastle were in it

Leicester have a very real chance of getting there again and who is to say in a few years the likes of Leeds, Villa Or Everton again might not do similar.
 

cyberman

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ReddBalls said:
He obviously can in his own made up league outsider og the associations. That's part of the problem with it. FIFA and UEFa aren't ONLY leeches, they also regulate the rules of the game, which every team that plays in competitons run by associations must adhere to.
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But he wont. He isnt the emperor of the super league, one man wont hold all the power. Its just an old man pontificating. Same way UEFA said they could charge ppv for last 15 mins of games only.
 

That_Bloke

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terraloo said:
There is. He is wealthy man who if he felt that strongly would probably walk
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There's also something called a contract with clauses about what you can and can't say as long as you're working for them. He still has time to walk, like anyone else.
 

Camara

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There is one absolutely hilarious way to ban them from the PL without actually banning them.
The PL can create a new competition with specific rules to join and all clubs except those 6 will move there and exit the PL voluntarily.
The 6 clubs would be left in a PL that has nothing :lol:
 

JPRouve

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pratyush_utd said:
What gives UEFA the right to determine who should play where? Don't understand this all of a sudden love for UEFA. Fifa wants a similar league for Africa. So most likely it will get ratified. Champions league can continue without them. Also Clubs do need to play in competition ratified by FIfa or UEFA. They have voluntarily removed themselves from European competition. That's about it. If UEFA could, they would have removed them from this year competition. They didn't because legally they can't do anything. Next year is different because these clubs will no longer be member of European club competition. They don't need UEFA permission to play in domestic league
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FIFA and affiliated associations statutes, every club and every licensee signed the agreement.
 

Berbaclass

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Camara said:
There is one absolutely hilarious way to ban them from the PL without actually banning them.
The PL can create a new competition with specific rules to join and all clubs except those 6 will move there and exit the PL voluntarily.
The 6 clubs would be left in a PL that has nothing :lol:
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The PL needs them because of the money.
 

Reditus

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Camara said:
There is one absolutely hilarious way to ban them from the PL without actually banning them.
The PL can create a new competition with specific rules to join and all clubs except those 6 will move there and exit the PL voluntarily.
The 6 clubs would be left in a PL that has nothing :lol:
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The No Super League Club
 

Revan

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pratyush_utd said:
Everton did make it to 3rd qualifications in 2005 if I am not wrong. That time it wasn't automatic qualifications for 4th place team
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Yep, they made it to UCL qualifications, but got beaten by Villarreal. And then got immediately beaten from some Bulgarian team in the qualifiers for UEFA.

Despite that they finished 4th, they were not in UCL and neither in group stages of UEFA Cup.
 

Boavista

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Skåre Willoch said:
If this goes through, what happens to the non-"big-6" clubs with huge debts, reliant on the influx of money coming from the TV deals just to stay alive? The average Championship team spend 107% of their revenue on salaries, simply because they might eventually reach the promised land and erase the deficit. West Brom, Norwich, Fulham have all been able to stay relevant because of the "parachute" money, what will happen to those kinds of clubs? The players contracts are legally binding for years to come, so it isn't as simple as "stop paying silly money". If the money dries up, and the TV deal(s) collapse by even 20-30%, it would be catastrophic.

Even though I kind of support the whole "kick them (us) out" take, I think it would literally mean the end of a huge amount of clubs in England, and I don't understand how they can possibly allow that to happen. That's not even cutting off the nose to spite the face, it's cutting of the entire head.

Just to be clear, I fully support kicking out all the teams involved in the Super League. I just don't understand how that's even an option.
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That's definitely a valid point, but judging by how the government is reacting to this in public I can't see them let clubs go under in the direct aftermath of the break away. There would be bailouts I imagine. Further down the line the league would just have to normalise at a lower revenue level and cost structure.
 

saivet

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SmallCaine said:
Anyone know how reliable this guy is?

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Never heard of him though he's followed by a number of journos. I'd be inclined not to take it too seriously unless it's reported by someone more credible from a football background.
 

The Man Himself

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ESL failing and Glazers leaving/selling club in frustration will be the dream scenario to come out of this. Currently we are in nightmare phase.
 

SmallCaine

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saivet said:
Never heard of him though he's followed by a number of journos. I'd be inclined not to take it too seriously unless it's reported by someone more credible.
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He's not a football journo, he works for politico. Which is why i asked, the problem with credible journos is they are also club mouthpieces.
 

JPRouve

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The Man Himself said:
ESL failing and Glazers leaving/selling club in frustration will be the dream scenario to come out of this. Currently we are in nightmare phase.
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Who do you think is going to purchase the club and not do what the Glazers did? United isn't a small investment, only businessmen will touch it.
 

Reditus

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For those 271 voters on the fence. What info are you actually waiting for?
 

bond19821982

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That_Bloke said:
That's an excellent post, thank you for taking the time to reply.

Yeah it will lose in quality and get less money, obviously but I don't see it collapsing. The Government will jump in at some point if things really go south. It will also even the odds and actually make it exciting since the gap between the teams will be reduced, opening more opportunities for investors in the long term. The downside would be that the ESL teams getting richer and able to buy more players from the other not so lucky clubs. But then again if the FIA and the UEFA indeed manage to kick them out of every competition, where's the appeal for the players? They'd be reduced to play their same 38 odd games in a season, which can become boring fast, and then go home. Money can't compensate for everything. I can't think of many players willing to give a pass on playing for their country in the Euros, AFCON, Copa or the WC.

Like you said on a domestic level, kicking out the top 6 is doable and I don't see any of the 14 other teams objecting to that. On an international level less so, especially with the EU laws, but I suppose that the FIFA and UEFA won't back down either. They'll give instructions to the FAs to simply not call up the ESL players. Also who's going to be ref in ESL? The FIFA won't let any of their own officiate there.

I'm not fond of an even more watered down CL, or a WC in Qatar, and football needs a shake up but this is pure insanity. Unfairly and arbitrarily closing the shop at the highest level, writing their own rules for their own league, while still wanting to prey on the domestic competitions is a piss take that is never going to happen. I've read that some of the founders don't a rat's ass and even want their players to be banned from the international competitions. That gives weight to your assumption that these people neither are interested nor have a clue about football.

It ain't a FU to the UEFA or the FIFA or the oil clubs or whatever some fans like to sugar-coat it. It's been done to save the indebted big clubs in Italy and Spain and the owners of the english big six (Tottenham, lol) saw an opportunity to make even more money. Nothing more nothing less.
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Sorry to spoil the party but lot of them won't happen in reality.

No one is kicking them out from domestic leagues as they have repeatedly said they want to stay.
The narrative that esl is boring is laughable when you have the same 14 teams competing in EPL every year. If that's not boring, this won't be either.
The epl is still going to be there but the revenue would be split. Means, you won't get this much money from the broadcasters. It won't be the cash cow that it's now.
 

red4ever 79

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Utd twitter account is still posting bullshit articles that no one is interested in, but not referencing any of this. All utd players silent on social media since the 18th. Grow some balls lads. We need Rashford or Pogba to come out and dis credit this.
 

Rightnr

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pratyush_utd said:
I don't remember Rashford calling himself Prime minister. They are well off because they are bloody good at something. Don't understand this notion that they earn more money so they should behave differently
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You're either being very disingenuous or purposefully thick.

Rashford earns loads of money from endorsements and that is based on this image and public perception which is very positive due to his actions outside his profession.

Now we come to a point where morals and ethics in his day job is questioned and all of a sudden my (and that of others) expectations of his behaviour and principles should change?

What kind of moral hypocrisy is this? If you want to be paid and not be questioned about where your money comes from, stop trying to portray yourself as anything but a mercenary.

This is valid not just for Rashford but for all of them, especially when it concerns the values of the club.

The only person who I can see agreeing with your point is some posh rich boy who's used to behaving hypocritically. I expect better from these working class footballers.
 
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