Definitely. One of Liverpool’s sponsors backed out during the SL backlash. Brands don’t want to be associated with clubs that are pissing off their own fans.
Fans who were against today's protests
- Thread starter Spoony
- Start date
Could start a new thread slating those United fans lack of whatever...instead of derailing this thread.
Protesting was fantastic. But going into Old Trafford should not have been done.
I'm on the same page as you. I also don't think the fans should stop, until it catches wildfire.
the headlines would not be the same
yep. it needs to be constant and just the right side of the ugly line. the glazers have had a fair amount of dividend payments and the club is worth way more than what they bought it for. they will sell if it starts getting too much hassle for them. it just needs a sustained campaign now.
Yes and they'll walk away with a huge profit. How much do they need? But yeah it won't be worth the hassle and bad press.
I’ve never understood mass use of the ignore button. It’s a fans forum for discussion.
Do some fans just want to agree and pat each other on the back? My favourite discussions are with people who disagree with me, why would I ignore them?
On topic, I am undecided. I don’t really know what they want to achieve. The fight against football becoming a money-based industry was lost a long time ago and we are too far into the money world for this to be changed. I do, however, admire the passion shown today.
I appreciate the sentiment, but are you going to sell your house for less than what you perceive it to be and what industry experts say it is worth?
Sponsors also get told fans will buy their products and benefit from presence social media etc. When fans are displaying this kind of hostility towards the owners it’s not such an easy sell.
Fans are consumers and a commodity the owners bank on.
yep. bought it for 700 odd million, financed most of it. i think they’d take 2 billion, with all the debt also going to the new owners. not a bad 15 year’s work.
Ok Joel. You’re an amazing owner taking all that money out of the club and letting the facilities go to rack and ruin
The problem we have is nobody will pay the market price for the club. Same reason Spotify bloke won’t buy Arsenal. Look at the history of PL clubs being bought. Only ever happens for a knock-down price. The one and only exception being Manchester United and the Glazers couldn’t afford to pay for it up front.
It’s a depressing thought but there’s no cnut anywhere that would dream of paying the Glazers the several billion the club is currently valued at. Then invest another few hundred million on players/the stadium. Absolutely no chance of any rational business man having that much spare cash swilling around.
Maybe just maybe a gulf state like Saudi Arabia would be prepared to take that sort of risk but does anyone really want that to happen?
Last edited:
Discussion is great and we're all just expressing opinions but some of the posts today have been laughable. It's too time-consuming to mock them all and I can't imagine I'd ever find anything worth reading from a good few of them. So, just as you have the right to plow merrily through their future posts, I've got the right to pretend they don't exist.
Don't like the product, don't buy it. Protest all you want, but don't go screaming like a child if you don't want to be treated like one
Completely behind the protesting. Even breaking into the stadium and boycotting the games because that’s the only way to hurt them. What I can’t agree with is the violent conduct that has become apparent retrospectively; ambulances called, I’ve also seen a photo of a rozzer with his face sliced open, and people generally acting like complete idiots. These unacceptable acts have somewhat tarnished any credibility that the protests should have had. This was organised to spread and send a message, not to invoke chaos.
I was never Glazers out before as I could never see you truly developing with them in charge. But I am indisputably Glazers out now as a football fan, I’d rather see you win the league ten years in a row than see you or us join a Super League or any other alternative. These protests will work if we maintain the potency, but there certainly needs to be some discipline if we don’t want the criticism deflected back on us.
I was never Glazers out before as I could never see you truly developing with them in charge. But I am indisputably Glazers out now as a football fan, I’d rather see you win the league ten years in a row than see you or us join a Super League or any other alternative. These protests will work if we maintain the potency, but there certainly needs to be some discipline if we don’t want the criticism deflected back on us.
Given these owners expected to see club valuations more than double with the introduction of the ESL, they are going to want a whole lot more than £3BN.
I get the message, I don't think it makes a jot of difference though. At best the Glazers change the way they operate. The club is valued at too much money for them to sell, it makes too much money for them to sell, nobody is rich enough to buy it, etc. So I think regardless, the Glazers will be here and the best we can hope for is better, more football focused management. We got a huge match postponed, anything else will be pretty irrelevant if this doesn't change the way they operate.
Why is that unrealistic? Is it because you must have Sky/BT and the latest United shirt?
Personally, I don't subscribe to either Sky or BT and have bought no United merchandise since the Glazers took over, so it's not unrealistic.
I doubt anything will change. But the only way to hurt the Glazers is through money. That is all they are interested in and if they are not making money, then they will listen.
There isn’t any one individual action that will force a sale. But concerted pressure over a period of time that has a degrading effect on the clubs image, will exert some influence. The fans have to keep doing their part even if their only role is to embolden a potential buyer to put forth a bid, and / or make the Glazers even a little bit more receptive to selling up.
The super league fiasco will have had a significantly deleterious effect on their exit strategy. It has always been the case that the Glazers are looking to sell. All investors look to sell eventually, but it’s about creating the right conditions for that sale.
The Glazers were looking at a few things from the get-go to make a sale at maximum value:
- The establishment of a super league to maximise media rights.
- The establishment of effective cost control mechanisms in the new competition through a salary cap and transfer cap. All the big clubs want this except state funded organisations.
- A greater share of media revenue.
- Individualised streaming rights in select territories via mobile platforms, such as in China.
Their ability to have greater control over competition rules and collective bargaining were always critical to achieving this aim. I believe the super league would’ve seen them sell in 2-3 years as value peaked. The collapse of the project for the foreseeable future is either going to have them dig in for the long term or it’s going to have them accept that value may well already be close to its peak, and consequently sell. Especially if their interpretation of the football environment in England is that any super league type prospect is effectively untenable.
The further absence and breakdown of any meaningful financial control mechanisms such as FFP, is likely to be viewed as a considerable risk factor in continuing to hold the asset. Fan unrest, damage with sponsors and social media following in the wake of the ESL farrago, can all accumulate to expedite a sale. This is especially acute given that the collapse of the ESL has seen a considerable weakening of the clubs position in being able to shape its current environment, with positions in the ECA, UEFA executive committees, and PL committees, all being relinquished.
Woodward has been sacrificed in an attempt to rebuild trust, but the depth of feeling and perception of the club is a profound distaste for ownership, and this extends to other clubs, governing bodies and the media. It will be an uphill climb for the Glazers to regain a position of influence for the club in the near future, as the climate remains politically charged with regards to sporting integrity. This is a demonstration of their naivety with regards to English and European perceptions of football, and an assumption that a transactional approach to fandom, and Inter-club relations are comparable to the US, whereas in reality there are deep ties with national and local culture which transcend any transactional interpretation of the relationship.
There is also a mischaracterisation of the overseas supporter, assuming that they are purely transactional in their support of the club; glory and glamour in exchange for consumption. What this interpretation misunderstands is that for United the key consumptive appeal isn’t focused around the glamour of the squad - this is a team that builds stars rather than buys them - it is a consumption of the history, ethics, and unique cultural pull of the institution. These values have been sorely tarnished by their actions over the ESL, and my suspicion is that this will ultimately be reflected in weakening support in overseas territories.
The super league fiasco will have had a significantly deleterious effect on their exit strategy. It has always been the case that the Glazers are looking to sell. All investors look to sell eventually, but it’s about creating the right conditions for that sale.
The Glazers were looking at a few things from the get-go to make a sale at maximum value:
- The establishment of a super league to maximise media rights.
- The establishment of effective cost control mechanisms in the new competition through a salary cap and transfer cap. All the big clubs want this except state funded organisations.
- A greater share of media revenue.
- Individualised streaming rights in select territories via mobile platforms, such as in China.
Their ability to have greater control over competition rules and collective bargaining were always critical to achieving this aim. I believe the super league would’ve seen them sell in 2-3 years as value peaked. The collapse of the project for the foreseeable future is either going to have them dig in for the long term or it’s going to have them accept that value may well already be close to its peak, and consequently sell. Especially if their interpretation of the football environment in England is that any super league type prospect is effectively untenable.
The further absence and breakdown of any meaningful financial control mechanisms such as FFP, is likely to be viewed as a considerable risk factor in continuing to hold the asset. Fan unrest, damage with sponsors and social media following in the wake of the ESL farrago, can all accumulate to expedite a sale. This is especially acute given that the collapse of the ESL has seen a considerable weakening of the clubs position in being able to shape its current environment, with positions in the ECA, UEFA executive committees, and PL committees, all being relinquished.
Woodward has been sacrificed in an attempt to rebuild trust, but the depth of feeling and perception of the club is a profound distaste for ownership, and this extends to other clubs, governing bodies and the media. It will be an uphill climb for the Glazers to regain a position of influence for the club in the near future, as the climate remains politically charged with regards to sporting integrity. This is a demonstration of their naivety with regards to English and European perceptions of football, and an assumption that a transactional approach to fandom, and Inter-club relations are comparable to the US, whereas in reality there are deep ties with national and local culture which transcend any transactional interpretation of the relationship.
There is also a mischaracterisation of the overseas supporter, assuming that they are purely transactional in their support of the club; glory and glamour in exchange for consumption. What this interpretation misunderstands is that for United the key consumptive appeal isn’t focused around the glamour of the squad - this is a team that builds stars rather than buys them - it is a consumption of the history, ethics, and unique cultural pull of the institution. These values have been sorely tarnished by their actions over the ESL, and my suspicion is that this will ultimately be reflected in weakening support in overseas territories.
Last edited:
Go on then, I'll take you up on this. Tell me how many other clubs owners have cost their club well over a billions pounds without putting anything in?
Here’s an alternative question:
What did the protests today achieve?
Increased awareness an coverage about the Glazers being shit and parasites etc (which we already knew), at the expense of a game against Liverpool. A stolen corner flag, some destroyed cameras and a few arrests/ criminal charges.
The movement has been going on since the Glazers took over in 2005. The initial protesters went off, formed FCUM and then faded out of the limelight. Likewise the Green & Gold campaign when Becks showed his solidarity - nothing changed
The protesters will wake up tomorrow and the Glazers will still be in charge. They will sell when they want. Nothing will change.
Things could be worse, we could have Mike Ashley or a murderous Saudi maniac in charge. (Though I’m sure some supporters would prefer the latter)
What did the protests today achieve?
Increased awareness an coverage about the Glazers being shit and parasites etc (which we already knew), at the expense of a game against Liverpool. A stolen corner flag, some destroyed cameras and a few arrests/ criminal charges.
The movement has been going on since the Glazers took over in 2005. The initial protesters went off, formed FCUM and then faded out of the limelight. Likewise the Green & Gold campaign when Becks showed his solidarity - nothing changed
The protesters will wake up tomorrow and the Glazers will still be in charge. They will sell when they want. Nothing will change.
Things could be worse, we could have Mike Ashley or a murderous Saudi maniac in charge. (Though I’m sure some supporters would prefer the latter)
That's all well and fine, but I'd be curious how you would communicate this to the club's 500+ million fans, let alone get all of them to go along with it.
When the OT open up, and the Glazers see the stadium fill up again, it will be interesting what they will think about this.
This is some selfish myopic shit
Sorry to hear your afternoon was disrupted.
The Glazers have ruined my passion for the past 16 years, but that's nothing in comparison to one game...
We all have a cross to bear
Dunno if the guy was half joking, but what's selfish is the few thinking they on their own can decide for the many and in the process hurting innocent people
You're passionate about PLC's then, I take?
We should bombard the Glazers on Twitter demanding that they sell up....
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I was half joking, obviously my afternoon hasn’t been completely ruined. I did plan most my day around watching the game though, so I was, and remain, somewhat disappointed.
Actually, this is not true.
Oh you are online, simple question I asked you, strange you haven't answered.
This thread clearly highlights the fact people who disagree with the protest have 0 clue what the alternative is. I've seen no genuine alternative that will impact the Glazers from anyone that disagrees with the protest.
Oh, and Old Trafford is the fans' stadium, so stop castigating them for 'tresspassing'.
Oh, and Old Trafford is the fans' stadium, so stop castigating them for 'tresspassing'.
If this is not wumming, I don't know what is. There's disagreeing with the general opinion and then there's being you.
It's because the question presumed there needs to be an alternative.
Yeah I started and then decided it wasn't a question that could be answered really. It's sort of irrelevant how much money they take out of the business they own but to humour you, probably the worst owner for that is Mike Ashley. The answer really depends on what you define as a "good owner", which is in itself subjective depending on your moral compass and personal beliefs. For example if United were to be owned by an Arab state, with significant human rights violations against it, I would never buy a club product until they were no longer owners. Obviously I'd prefer if a consortium of real fans bought the club but that seems unrealistic.
If you can show me the title deeds to the stadium to state this, please do. Otherwise I imagine it belongs to the club.
No one has an alternative to protest because there is no alternative, just as protest isn't really an option either because it's largely meaningless.
I am not showing you shit. You cannot even come up with a half-realistic plan of action, apart from wumming people and trying to play the funny teenager. So your opinion about the right and wrong of today is meaningless.
Calm down a bit, it was a tongue in cheek remark. If the Glazers have destroyed someone's passion for the club, I have sympathy, but I'd be somewhat surprise considering we got to three CL finals in four seasons, won a few doubles and won the PL three times in a row under their ownership. I don't recall a lack of passion from fans then.