The EL final loss: a measured response

[11101]

As an onlooker, rather than a United supporter, and therefore with a dispassionate take on the matter, I’m surprised that you expect any different.
What you get out of Ole is what you’d reasonably expect to get from a manager lacking high level experience, he’s good and with the resources of the biggest club in England he’s got you to 2nd place in the PL and a runner up spot in the Europa, but he’s not the finished article and he will polish his act.
There are many positives. He’s improved season upon season, he’s getting more out of your squad than he did when he first arrived and IMO he’ll be better again next season.
Regards losing to Villarreal; he’ll have learnt a lot from that and if you played them again tomorrow then he’d use that knowledge and beat them, as you would beat them every week if you played them every week for the next decade.
They’re crap compared to United on every level except management experience, their manager had been there before and won it before whereas Ole was on work experience.
I think that you should put more trust in Ole, he’s shown that he can learn from his lessons. In fact, as a City supporter, I can vouch in all honesty that the results of recent derbys show that he can have the measure of Pep on occasion.

You hit the nail on the head there. We are the biggest club in England, should we really have a manager with no high level experience? Has the inexperienced ex-legend approach ever worked in top level English football? What we're doing is gambling that Ole is the right man rather than letting him cut his teeth elsewhere and knowing for sure.

 

[Hugh Jass]

I have a feeling we might be feeling worse after the ucl final.

True. Watch the super cup then as well and see whoever wins the match on saturday hammer Villareal. We are miles behind city.

 

[bugmat]

For a top level footballing side, we really aren't that good at football.

At the end of the day, we have a board with extremely low standards, and we refuse to bring in a coaches that focus on proper attacking build up. How long will Manchester United be a top heavy club? Why do we hang on to Managers and players for so long when everyone knows they're not good enough?

Ole to his credit does have some ambition, but he is not able to train all aspects of the game. He needs to realize he needs more specialized assistants if he wants to succeed at high level coaching. The players you can say some aren't good enough, and it's true, but a lot of the time all of them look lost.

Spot on here with the bolded part. Phelan, Carrick and Mckenna as a group aren't good enough imo to elevate us to where we want to be even if we get the players. That's not to say we should get rid, but maybe we need to add to them. Clearly we need to work on defending set pieces, and attacking set defences.

 

[JuriM]

True. Watch the super cup then as well and see whoever wins the match on saturday hammer Villareal. We are miles behind city.

Yet, we are winning most against them.

On the topic, it's really good points that you brought up and a lot of you need to control your emotions better, before you post.

 

[MoskvaRed]

It all depends how you view Ole. If you think he is the right man, you will put last night down as a bad day at the office. If (like me) you don’t think Ole has any right to be manager of a club like United, then you’ll see it as further evidence that he is lacking at this level.

Anyway, it’s all academic as he will definitely be here next season. Probably his last season if Chelsea improve and Liverpool recover as I expect them to.

 

[RedDevil@84]

The late substitutions
We were the best team in that second half. Things were clicking(apart from in the final third of the pitch) at least up until the 75th minute or so. And our 4 best players were(in my opinion): McTominay, Shaw, AWB and Pogba.
Who should come off and who should come on? Keep in mind that we are chasing a goal and our only attacking "threats" on the bench are James, Mata and Amad. In case you're confused: there is no good sub to make.
McTominay was on fire during that period so taking him off was not an option. Switching Pogba with VDB or Fred is a defensive move and we needed goals. James has been criticized all year, so if you claim that he was the solution then you're simply lying to push your agenda. Amad is just a kid and he's barely played for us. You could argue that switching Rashford with Fred/VDB and putting Pogba out left was a good solution, but that is also a defensive move and only serves the purpose of fresh(but weaker) legs. Also...

The only person who is making up excuses is you mate.
Almost all teams start with their best XI in a final. Which means the bench is either deemed as equal or below the levels of the starting XI. But the reason there is a bench is to use it. Coaches don't sit there and pray for magic to happen. If Rashford is not in the best of the form, you see it and bring James or VDB, regardless of whether they are of better quality or not. Fresh legs against tired opponents is one of the options you take when things dont go your way. Else you shift Pogba to the left and bring in someone else.
There is absolutely no excuse to just sit there and stare and brood for 90 mins and then for 30 mins more. Games are won by trying something different.

I love Ole and have always felt that several people on caf are way too harsh on him. Especially the Poch fanboys.
But yesterday, Ole failed us miserably by refusing to do anything at all. He ran our players to the ground by making them run pointlessly for 120 mins, despite it being clear whatever we were trying to do was not working. Even with all the respect you are asking for Villarreal, it is true that they didn't even bother to try for 90 + 30. They were there for the taking. The onus was on us to do something and Ole failed at his job miserably.
He did that against PSG by simply refusing to sub Fred and making sure that Fred gets sent off.
Ole's endless waiting has cost us games, previously as well. Yesterday was an extreme version of his endless waiting for magic to happen.

 

[RedDevil@84]

I wouldn't call Rashford weak, he's played with an injury since September

Fire the medical staff in that case.

 

[bsCallout]

Fire the medical staff in that case.

Don't do that. For the first season in a long time we've actually had a good injury record despite playing the most games.

I'm sure they know they extent of his injuries and that he's obviously fine to play through the pain, it's just unfair to assume it wouldn't affect his performances.

I'd have rather a 3/4 fit Rashford than no Rashford this season.

 

[Hughie77]

What we have to put up with now after accepting a result which I always thought from the time the tie was cast, Arsenal would have been a better opponent for us. Villareal are a side that is basically very good at what they do, even if it's pretty dour to watch, strolling to corners in 13mins on clock etc wasting time with no effort from the ref to hurry them up, they played the bad ref very well. The ex pros, pundits loads who have never or failed miserably in Managment now had the answers to last night??.
Wow hindsight we can all do that whether we are ex Arsenal piss heads or washed up fat gits, on the Talk shit radio station. We lost by 1 pen out of 11 taken . Come on overreaction , I'm more pissed that we didn't see this coming, ie the ESL debacle UEFA not happy, they didn't want us to win that competition no matter what, so there happy. And I'm calling it now, another group of death in the CL. Next season. Keep Ole and the rest of the staff , improve squad next season, and stick there biased bollocks words etc down there throats.

 

[LoSpritz]

Thank you Op, I really needed to read something like that today, and I agree completely.
@OleBoiii

 

[sparx99]

What about Gómez Bardonado, Rabaseda Antolin, or Pérez Martínez?

I’m not saying our players aren’t better. I’m saying I can understand the hesitancy to swap Rashford for James.

 

[sparx99]

Ole bought 2 of these players for squad depth if nothing else. If you can't rely on them to come off for an impact, you have to question the decision making.

I don’t deny he signed two of them. But obviously that doesn’t change the fact that James hasn’t really improved and Van De Beek has been a huge disappointment.

Rashford was really poor last night but I didn’t feel encouraged by the idea of bringing anyone else on for him.

 

[VP89]

I don’t deny he signed two of them. But obviously that doesn’t change the fact that James hasn’t really improved and Van De Beek has been a huge disappointment.

Rashford was really poor last night but I didn’t feel encouraged by the idea of bringing anyone else on for him.

You can't deny it, it's a fact. They're his players, he either misjudged them or he has misused them. Either way, it's on him.

 

[Roboc7]

Ole froze last night and didn’t know what to do, there’s not much else to say. He’ll be here next season, he needs to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

 

[bond19821982]

Do you want me to be measured ? Here you go - Ole isn't winning us a trophy any time soon.

This is probably the nicest way I can tell about him after yesterday.

 

[DSG]

I don’t deny he signed two of them. But obviously that doesn’t change the fact that James hasn’t really improved and Van De Beek has been a huge disappointment.

Rashford was really poor last night but I didn’t feel encouraged by the idea of bringing anyone else on for him.

You can't deny it, it's a fact. They're his players, he either misjudged them or he has misused them. Either way, it's on him.

It’s VERY clear, people!

Every victory or positive performance is 100% down to the players and in spite of Ole. Every defeat and failure is 100% down to Ole and the players bear no responsibility.

puts the “United” into Manchester United.

 

[andersj]

I have not quite bothered ro read about the match today, but one thing I am a bit curious about; did others notice how poorly organized we looked during the team talks? It was so chaotic. The contrast to Villarreal was huge.

 

[DSG]

You hit the nail on the head there. We are the biggest club in England, should we really have a manager with no high level experience? Has the inexperienced ex-legend approach ever worked in top level English football? What we're doing is gambling that Ole is the right man rather than letting him cut his teeth elsewhere and knowing for sure.

Kenny Dalglish

 

[Ixion]

Weird excuse some people keep coming out with about not using our subs, our best players were on the pitch so keep them on....Isn't that what happens to every team in every game? The manager picks their best XI then as the game progresses, fatigue kicks in, based on how its going, you use your subs? Ole starting with his best team is not some unusual problem that only he has to deal with. When your players are a wreck and you're not creating anything you have to change it up. And it was Villarreal FFS, our players on the bench are good enough for that.

They were the team actually attacking in extra time and looking like they might create something and that's because their manager had freshened it up with 4-5 subs at that point while our players were knackered and Ole sat on his hands hoping to get to penalties.

 

[owlo]

A measured response after considering all the facts would be to sack the manager.

 

[VP89]

It’s VERY clear, people!

Every victory or positive performance is 100% down to the players and in spite of Ole. Every defeat and failure is 100% down to Ole and the players bear no responsibility.

puts the “United” into Manchester United.

Read posts better.

 

[Fooza]

Pity Ole didn't have a measured response when our team were getting too tired

 

[owlo]

But we’re progressing!

I was once in the north of Norway during some particularly bad driving weather, whence we stumbled upon a couple of Americans in their rental 4x4 attempting to traverse a hill. After watching them slide back and forth for some minutes, we attempted to offer some assistance. Their answer was the exact same!

...But we're progressing!!!

 

[nickm]

Probably his last season if Chelsea improve and Liverpool recover as I expect them to.

I agree with that.

We may be progressing a bit, but it's not enough. For all the 'it's only the Europa league', you'd think an up and coming team team hungry to win things and lay down a marker for next season, would have done so. You breed a winning mentality by... winning things.

I think our position looks better than it really is, thanks to fundamentally stronger clubs who've had bad luck.

 

[Harry190]

After putting some thought into it, I think the reserve team put out against Wolves would have done better than the A team.

Elanga would have offered something very different based on his showing against Wolves.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Ole froze last night and didn’t know what to do, there’s not much else to say. He’ll be here next season, he needs to make sure it doesn’t happen again.

That is a false hope. He has frozen before and refused to make any changes in other games as well. It is no longer a learning curve for him.

 

[MattofManchester]

The fact is that when push came to shove, we've fallen off the wagon at every turn.

Final group game against Leipzig, we didnt turn up despite knowing the importance, Leicester in the cup, we were pitiful, move to first in the league and the wheels fall off completely, now Europa League final and we don't turn up again.

If we now include last season, there's a common trend developing here, and I'm not sure who's to blame.
We've got players who crack at any pressure placed upon them with not a single shred of a winning mentality in them, bar possibly two or three, and a manager who decisions leave much to be desired in those moments.

The blame can't be attributed to one single person here, but frankly that's even more concerning.

 

[jem]

Greenwood looked dead on his feet when he came off.

Rashford looked that way all match.

 

[The Brown Bull]

Emery made 5 substitutions before the end of normal time. Olé made none.
Think about that.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

We should have won. We didn’t. It’s a bad result.

 

[Ixion]

Emery made 5 substitutions before the end of normal time. Olé made none.
Think about that.

Not a surprise they were more lively in extra time and we created nothing.

 

[galwayfa]

Emery made 5 substitutions before the end of normal time. Olé made none.
Think about that.

That toe was difference, he changed half his outfield team, didn't care about reputations or further transfers that might happen, we left rashford on to score a penalty, de gea on and wouldn't save one if told where to dive, Bruno should give him lessons, it was embarrassing, we played well for 45 minutes in whole tie, not good enough

 

[shamans]

What measured response. It's embarrassing to lose to a team like that.

 

[smi11ie]

I was shocked at the way Utd took their foot off Villareal's throat towards the end of the game. Ole's main defence seems to be that he had no decent subs to bring on. You can point the finger at who you want but the team (that includes Ole, the coaching staff and the players) handed momentum to Villareal and went out with a wimper towards the end of the game. Hopefully they will learn from this.

 

[Suedesi]

I was shocked at the way Utd took their foot off Villareal's throat towards the end of the game. Ole's main defence seems to be that he had no decent subs to bring on. You can point the finger at who you want but the team (that includes Ole, the coaching staff and the players) handed momentum to Villareal and went out with a wimper towards the end of the game. Hopefully they will learn from this.

Well, he's the manager, and he's spent 20m on James, 28m on Telles, 30m on Van de Beek, and 21m on Amad (figures in Euros per transfermarkt). Ignoring Mata, Matic, Fred who were bought by previous managers, he still had over 100m worth of talent on the bench that he chose not to use. Where does the buck stop in this organization?

 

[smi11ie]

Well, he's the manager, and he's spent 20m on James, 28m on Telles, 30m on Van de Beek, and 21m on Amad (figures in Euros per transfermarkt). Ignoring Mata, Matic, Fred who were bought by previous managers, he still had over 100m worth of talent on the bench that he chose not to use. Where does the buck stop in this organization?

I agree. It looked like he had no plan for extra-time. At the time I said "he is bottling this". That is something I have never said before while watching Utd. I stand by that assessment. It was a bottlejob, plain and simple. Hopefully he and the team learn from the experience.

 

[Suedesi]

Learning on the job while running the biggest club in the UK. Amazing gig if you can get it.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

The biggest issue in my opinion was not making an adjustment with Bruno dropping to form more of a triangle in midfield, as well as leaving Rashford on for 120 while he was quite clearly the worst player on the pitch the entire match. As for Greenwood coming off instead of Rash, that’s also a bad move considering he’s more of a goal threat as well.

 

[croadyman]

Ole was dreadful last night, it’s not really a time to make excuses for him. Was the biggest moment in his managerial career and it was too much for him.

He’ll still be here next season and hopefully he learns from it but he can’t be as inept as that again.

Oh trust me he can be just as inept next time because got previous for bottling big games

 

[Will Singh]

Thanks for the long answer, the short answer is Ole bottled it and hadn’t got it in him to turn things around during a game. He made tactical subs for the pens so why not take off De Gea who’s not saved a pen in he’s life? The players we have are in the exact position any manager would have hit them there so as far as I’m concerned Ole hasn’t added anything to up the level!!!