Messi v Ronaldo | Contains double your daily salt allowance

[The holy trinity 68]

People saying Ronaldo is better because he has became top scorer in Euro history with 10 goals. Messi has 10 goals in the Copa, the reason he isn't top scorer in Copa history is because the top scorer is on 17 goals. Ronaldo also has the most tournament appearances if any Euro player ever with 5, so he is statistically more likely to become top scorer if he has been in the most tournaments.

Goals to game ratio is fairer than overall goals anyway. Klose is top scorer in World Cup history but it would be silly to say he is the best player in World Cup history.

Ronaldo's Euro goals were against the below which shows he has only scored 3 goals against a top nation.

Greece x1
Netherlands x3
Czech Republic x2
Wales x1
Hungary x4

 

[ayushreddevil9]

People saying Ronaldo is better because he has became top scorer in Euro history with 10 goals. Messi has 10 goals in the Copa, the reason he isn't top scorer in Copa history is because the top scorer is on 17 goals. Ronaldo also has the most tournament appearances if any Euro player ever with 5, so he is statistically more likely to become top scorer if he has been in the most tournaments.

Goals to game ratio is fairer than overall goals anyway. Klose is top scorer in World Cup history but it would be silly to say he is the best player in World Cup history.

Ronaldo's Euro goals were against the below which shows he has only scored 3 goals against a top nation.

Greece x1
Netherlands x3
Czech Republic x2
Wales x1
Hungary x4

Messi has 0 goals against Brazil and Uruguay. You could have included Chile as well if we had this discussion last week.

 

[Daysleeper]

Both are GOATs at club level, but Ronaldo shits on Messi at International level. Pretty much by any metric.

No, he doesn’t, Messi has more goal contributions per 100 minutes than Ronaldo does. Ronaldo also faces weaker competition on average than Messi does

 

[Daysleeper]

Messi has 0 goals against Brazil and Uruguay. You could have included Chile as well if we had this discussion last week.

huh? He has 5 goals against Brazil and 5 against Uruguay

 

[Daysleeper]

World Cup
Ronaldo - 7 goals(2 pens) and 2 assists in 17 games.
Messi - 6 goals(0 pens) and 8 assists in 19 games.
Euros/Copa
Ronaldo - 11 goals(1 pen) and 8 assists in 22 games.
Messi - 10 goals(2 pens) and 13 assists in 28 games.

So people are basing Ronaldo 'shitting' on Messi Internationally because he has this record against a garbage level of opponent like below?

5 x Latvia
4 x Estonia
6 x Luxemborg
2 x Saudi Arabia
2 x Azerbaijan
2 x Kazakhstan
5 x Aremina
1 x North Korea
2 x Cyprus
3 x N.I
6 x Andorra
4 x Faroe Islands
1 x New Zealand
7 x Lithuania
1 x Israel

Over 50 goals against that lot, come on.

A few more in there against pretty average sides like Finland, Bosnia, Hungary etc.

And before I see the usual replies about who Messi has scored against, I'm not suggesting he has not upped his count against some gash, he has but it doesn't even hit the 20 goals mark because he doesn't play regularly against absolute hopeless European sides like above.

If you think Ronaldo has had a better International career, fair enough, but to claim it's so far apart is utterlly laughable. It's close.

@SportingCP96

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Messi has 0 goals against Brazil and Uruguay. You could have included Chile as well if we had this discussion last week.

Well yeah but I was just pointing out Ronaldo is only top with 11 in comparison with Messi because the South American record is higher.

 

[SportingCP96]

@SportingCP96

Now count goals scored in qualifiers and tournaments scored by both and then count friendly games which Messi has a big chunk of his goals from.

Messi will not be remembered as a Better player for his country then Ronaldo.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

@SportingCP96

This is an eye opener, the people on the Ronaldo side of the argument will ignore this kind of stuff and just say a goal is a goal blah blah etc etc.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Now count goals scored in qualifiers and tournaments scored by both and then count friendly games which Messi has a big chunk of his goals from.

Messi will not be remembered as a Better player for his country then Ronaldo.

Just keep clutching at straws.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

huh? He has 5 goals against Brazil and 5 against Uruguay

Read the post that I was responding to. Copa America goals.

 

[tomaldinho1]

You guys are relentless!

 

[SportingCP96]

Just keep clutching at straws.

Don’t need to, the facts are there. Legit no debate internationally.

 

[The Corinthian]

No, he doesn’t, Messi has more goal contributions per 100 minutes than Ronaldo does. Ronaldo also faces weaker competition on average than Messi does

What about per 90mins?

 

[Darek34]

Neither is a goat.
Maradona is greater. Messi and CR are club legends. At NT level are many better players

 

[SportingCP96]

Neither is a goat.
Maradona is greater. Messi and CR are club legends. At NT level are many better players

No

 

[Rojow]

European qualifys are so poor. Nothing like the South American ones. Even the shit teams like Bolivia have a massive handicap like playing in La Paz.

Playing against Andorra, Latvia, Luxemburgo or countrys like that is like playing against the bottom of the bottom in any big league.

 

[Daysleeper]

No

We agree on something

 

[Darek34]

No

Why ?

 

[jesperjaap]

World Cup
Ronaldo - 7 goals(2 pens) and 2 assists in 17 games.
Messi - 6 goals(0 pens) and 8 assists in 19 games.
Euros/Copa
Ronaldo - 11 goals(1 pen) and 8 assists in 22 games.
Messi - 10 goals(2 pens) and 13 assists in 28 games.

So people are basing Ronaldo 'shitting' on Messi Internationally because he has this record against a garbage level of opponent like below?

5 x Latvia
4 x Estonia
6 x Luxemborg
2 x Saudi Arabia
2 x Azerbaijan
2 x Kazakhstan
5 x Aremina
1 x North Korea
2 x Cyprus
3 x N.I
6 x Andorra
4 x Faroe Islands
1 x New Zealand
7 x Lithuania
1 x Israel

Over 50 goals against that lot, come on.

A few more in there against pretty average sides like Finland, Bosnia, Hungary etc.

And before I see the usual replies about who Messi has scored against, I'm not suggesting he has not upped his count against some gash, he has but it doesn't even hit the 20 goals mark because he doesn't play regularly against absolute hopeless European sides like above.

If you think Ronaldo has had a better International career, fair enough, but to claim it's so far apart is utterlly laughable. It's close.

Fair points, but the fact remains Messi has never really shone in major international tournament finals when he has arguably been in better international sides as well. Ronaldo has led his team. Cant blame Messi for spending his career at Barcelona but again Ronaldo has done it in all the major leagues bar Germany. I agree little to separate them at all and its personal taste or opinion or these conversations would continue, both all time greats. But for me I would say Messi is probably the most naturally talented, Ronaldo all round the better player and forget the goal stats, probably has more to show from his career rounded

 

[jesperjaap]

No

Yes!!!! Ronaldo and Messi probably have the best stats of all time pretty much consistently over there careers, but personally and maybe biased to a degree as football wasnt so easily accessible to watch players week in week out....but for me Maradona for me was simply on a level all of his own in my lifetime when he had the ball at his feet. That takes nothing away from what fabulous players both Messi and ROnaldo are, but Maradona neither of them are

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Ronaldo’s most Euros goal record was a very weak record to break, based on Platini in only one tournament. The format of old Euros with only 4 or 8 teams for a long time means that it was a low record to beat.

Ronaldo needs to get to 13 or 14 goals in this tournament for this record to be somewhat safe for a while. Even Griezmann could threaten it fairly soon if he has another good Euros this time and plays one more. If Mbappe plays 20 games + in his career at the Euros, you’d definitely fancy him to score more than 11.

 

[horsechoker]

Messi scores a free-kick so Ronaldo goes and scores 2 goals.

Love it.

If one shagged my wife, I'd let the other have a go just to see who could do it better

 

[lex talionis]

Neither is a goat.
Maradona is greater. Messi and CR are club legends. At NT level are many better players

Appreciate the passion, but CR7 and LM10 blew Maradona out of the water some time ago.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Appreciate the passion, but CR7 and LM10 blew Maradona out of the water some time ago.

They definitely did not.

No football player ever blows Maradona out of the water. That's complete nonsense.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Ronaldo’s most Euros goal record was a very weak record to break, based on Platini in only one tournament. The format of old Euros with only 4 or 8 teams for a long time means that it was a low record to beat.

Ronaldo needs to get to 13 or 14 goals in this tournament for this record to be somewhat safe for a while. Even Griezmann could threaten it fairly soon if he has another good Euros this time and plays one more. If Mbappe plays 20 games + in his career at the Euros, you’d definitely fancy him to score more than 11.

11 goals surely isn’t a strong record, but that’s good enough for now. Who knows he may score a few more this tournament, 13 or 14 is possible (just 2 or 3 more), and he could even break international goal record too (109+ goals), which would be big.

 

[Wolf1992]

Ronaldo’s most Euros goal record was a very weak record to break, based on Platini in only one tournament. The format of old Euros with only 4 or 8 teams for a long time means that it was a low record to beat.

Ronaldo needs to get to 13 or 14 goals in this tournament for this record to be somewhat safe for a while. Even Griezmann could threaten it fairly soon if he has another good Euros this time and plays one more. If Mbappe plays 20 games + in his career at the Euros, you’d definitely fancy him to score more than 11.

Speaking about that, Platini record it's insane, 9 goals in a single Euro edition(only one from penalty), and without being a Forward btw.
It is recognized by many as the best individual performances in Euro's history.

CR7 had to play 5 Euros to score more than 9 goals, that says it all.
Shame that Platini could only play one Euro cause only 8 teams qualified in the 80s.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Neither is a goat.
Maradona is greater. Messi and CR are club legends. At NT level are many better players

No way Maradona is greater. You may argue he is more talented and a better player at his absolute peak, with better legacy (86 WC) perhaps. But that doesn’t necessary makes him “greater”.

On the plus side, he is probably most talented player ever, and had reach the highest peak ever witness from any footballers during 86 WC. He has spend a few good years at Napoli doing some legendary stuffs.

On the down side, he had somewhat failed to live up his expectation at Barcelona, he has declined miserably once he hit his 30s, with all these drugs addiction issues. He had never won a CL, and he only managed to win only 10 trophies throughout his whole career, which isn’t great.

In terms of career and overall achievements, which are often used to measure greatness, there’s no way Maradona could compare with them.

 

[RedRonaldo]

Speaking about that, Platini record it's insane, 9 goals in a single Euro edition(only one from penalty), and without being a Forward btw.
It is recognized by many as the best individual performances in Euro's history.

CR7 had to play 5 Euros to score more than 9 goals, that says it all.
Shame that Platini could only play one Euro cause only 8 teams qualified in the 80s.

Depends how you look at that. With different perspective things could be viewed totally different.

For example, Ronaldo also hold the record of most goals scored in Euro qualifiers, I think should also deserve some credits. He isn’t just good in one-off tournament over 7 games span (ie Fontaine in WC), which is more or less equivalent to those “players of the month” thing… he has been consistently good over 5 separate tournaments and all the qualifiers throughout the years, over span of 16+ years, which is arguably much harder thing to do.

 

[Gehrman]

Is this even a debate anymore?

Not really sure what changed since last. Messi had a good game, where he scored a FK, against Chile, but they didn't win and Ronaldo had a great game, scored a pk, and a nice goal and they did win the game.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Its quite easily Messi as the better player. People's preference of Ronaldo is not based on his footballing abilities being better than Messi's but Ronaldo's mentality. His mentality is an inspiration to all. He encourages people to keep pushing and never give up .. shut the doubters up. Its something relatable on a human level. Messi isn't really relatable and doesnt come across to have much of a personality. He just plays like a clone

 

[Gehrman]

Its quite easily Messi as the better player. People's preference of Ronaldo is not based on his footballing abilities being better than Messi's but Ronaldo's mentality. His mentality is an inspiration to all. He encourages people to keep pushing and never give up .. shut the doubters up. Its something relatable on a human level. Messi isn't really relatable and doesnt come across to have much of a personality. He just plays like a clone

I think Ronaldo's mentality is obviously hugely admirable, but I find his "me me me" and look at my six-pack gesturing a bit cringe and off-putting. But it's true that Messi seems kind of bereft of a memorable personality.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I think Ronaldo's mentality is obviously hugely admirable, but I find his "me me me" and look at my six-pack gesturing a bit cringe and off-putting. But it's true that Messi seems kind of bereft of a memorable personality.

It is but I think that narcissism is actually a major reason he has achieved so much

 

[Gehrman]

I saw the highlights from the Argentina vs Chile match and again Messi is often so deep when he receives the ball. I wonder in the end if that the best way to utilize Messi or whether it's simply because there is no other playmaker up to scratch in the Argentina team.

 

[Pickle85]

Its quite easily Messi as the better player. People's preference of Ronaldo is not based on his footballing abilities being better than Messi's but Ronaldo's mentality. His mentality is an inspiration to all. He encourages people to keep pushing and never give up .. shut the doubters up. Its something relatable on a human level. Messi isn't really relatable and doesnt come across to have much of a personality. He just plays like a clone

I don't think that stating this as a fact makes it so. In the same way that you argue people's preference of Ronaldo isn't based on ability but mentality, it could be argued that others' preference for Messi is based on aesthetics not ability.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

I don't think that stating this as a fact makes it so. In the same way that you argue people's preference of Ronaldo isn't based on ability but mentality, it could be argued that others' preference for Messi is based on aesthetics not ability.

Aesthetics?

 

[Pickle85]

Aesthetics?

Yup, how they look when they play (grace/fluidity of movement etc).

 

[Zehner]

I don't think that stating this as a fact makes it so. In the same way that you argue people's preference of Ronaldo isn't based on ability but mentality, it could be argued that others' preference for Messi is based on aesthetics not ability.

I don't see how. For want of better statistics, the impact of attacking players was always "measured" in goals and assists. Messi edges Cristiano in this area over his career while Cristiano bests him in a small definition range of huge importance, namely knockout matches in the CL. Anyway, with Messi his goals and assists are a byproduct. He doesn't play for them, they just happen when he does his thing. While Ronaldo moved further up the pitch and participated less overall as his career went on, Messi still drops deep and is usually the player most important in the build up of attacks for his team. This also reflects in more advanced stats.

As a result, Messi is held to Ronaldo's standards (goals + assists) while Ronaldo isn't held to Messi's (overall contribution, initiating of attacks, etc.). I think this is why many CR7 fans try to keep the discussion simple and superficial. But if you have to oversimplify the topic to get to your desired outcome, you're doing it wrong. Then you're just looking for ways to confirm an opinion that you already made based on personal preferences, not on arguments.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Yup, how they look when they play (grace/fluidity of movement etc).

Oh yes. Messi looks effortless with the ball compared to Ronaldo. My opinion is not fact though I worded it that way. Anyways I try not to go deep into this debate because it will always just go round in circles but for me Messi is the better player and I think people choose Ronaldo (also very talented) majorly for his character which Messi doesnt seem to have much of.

 

[Pickle85]

I don't see how. For want of better statistics, the impact of attacking players was always "measured" in goals and assists. Messi edges Cristiano in this area over his career while Cristiano bests him in a small definition range of huge importance, namely knockout matches in the CL. Anyway, with Messi his goals and assists are a byproduct. He doesn't play for them, they just happen when he does his thing. While Ronaldo moved further up the pitch and participated less overall as his career went on, Messi still drops deep and is usually the player most important in the build up of attacks for his team. This also reflects in more advanced stats.

As a result, Messi is held to Ronaldo's standards (goals + assists) while Ronaldo isn't held to Messi's (overall contribution, initiating of attacks, etc.). I think this is why many CR7 fans try to keep the discussion simple and superficial. But if you have to oversimplify the topic to get to your desired outcome, you're doing it wrong. Then you're just looking for ways to confirm an opinion that you already made based on personal preferences, not on arguments.

Based on your previous posts it's clear your mind is utterly closed on this discussion. In terms of who I'd prefer to watch playing football, Messi takes it. I don't think that makes him a better player though. Saying Messi doesn't play for goals and assists is silly, btw. He's an attacking player and his output is phenomenal. Without them, he'd be next to pointless (he participates earlier in the build up than Ronaldo, sure, but his productivity is still paramount to whichever team is willing to pay his insane wages). At the end of the day, everyone will pick and choose the stats that suit the player they prefer no. In fact, given your input in this thread (and other Messi related discussion) over the years I would argue you're the last person to be handing out lessons in objectivity!

 

[Pickle85]

Oh yes. Messi looks effortless with the ball compared to Ronaldo. My opinion is not fact though I worded it that way. Anyways I try not to go deep into this debate because it will always just go round in circles but for me Messi is the better player and I think people choose Ronaldo (also very talented) majorly for his character which Messi doesnt seem to have much of.

Fair enough. I agree to a certain extent with this and, like you say, a lot of it is personal preference. Both wonderful players.