SARS CoV-2 coronavirus / Covid-19 (No tin foil hat silliness please)

[Massive Spanner]

The shit show in December was part of a phased reopening too. Look it, I’m being devil’s (i.e. NPHET) advocate here. My personal preference is to push out indoor dining by a couple of weeks (a month, at most) then see how things go from there. Looks like we might be lowering the age for people getting AZ/J&J which will help. I do think we’ll have a rough couple of months after we allow people back into pubs. Just like we’re seeing in the UK. But the numbers in the press this morning are the absolute worst case scenarios. The same NPHET model also has best case scenarios which look absolutely fine. What’s going to happen will be somewhere between those two extremes.

We both know it was nothing close to the level of a phased opening it currently is, let's not bend the narrative. Not to mention we had no vaccines and it was in the middle of winter as opposed to summer. The whole "meaningful Christmas" thing was a complete shambles. They are incomparable situations. We have kept easing restrictions yet cases, ICU numbers bla bla have remained steady/gone down, but apparently indoor dining is some massive outlier that will completely bollock everything up even though (as far as I'm aware) there is little evidence across Europe to support any of that.

Anyway, I doubt the government will go with it, they know there will be uproar. Delay by two weeks and some sort of system that tries to get restaurants to keep unvaccinated people outside when possible, without full enforcement, is the likely outcome.

 

[Foxbatt]

I saw in the news that EU has refused to include Covishield as a vaccine accepted for travel to eu. If so it's utterly ridiculous. Canada does accept Covishield but USA so far hasn't.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

Any chance someone on here can offer some insight on the supposed much faster transmission rate of the Delta variant? There have been some weird stories out there, like how for the original strains it was about 15 minutes of close contact that gives you a big chance of infection, and now there's talk about only 10-15 seconds (!) of close contact being enough. For example:

Queensland’s chief health officer, Dr Jeannette Young, echoed these statements on Wednesday when she announced the state would shut its borders to people from Sydney hotspots.

“With the Delta variant, we’re seeing very fleeting contact leading to transmission,” Young said.

“At the start of this pandemic, I spoke about 15 minutes of close contact being a concern. Now it looks like it’s five to 10 seconds that’s a concern. The risk is so much higher now than it was only a year ago.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...eed-to-know-about-sydneys-delta-covid-variant

In my country all the normally reliable experts are only going as far as saying 'it spreads faster' without making any claims about how much faster exactly, and the Delta variant is currently roughly 5-10% of infections. But if chief health officers from a developed country are making such statements it seems extremely alarming, or am I missing something here?


EDIT: after some searching I think it's the extremely short transmission time in a specific mutation of the (general) Delta variant, called K417N that's being referred to.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...t-coronavirus-with-k417n-mutation-2021-06-23/

The variant, called "Delta Plus" in India, was first reported in a Public Health England bulletin on June 11.

It is a sub-lineage of the Delta variant first detected in India and has acquired the spike protein mutation called K417N which is also found in the Beta variant first identified in South Africa.

And some more:

"But, says Ravindra Gupta, professor of clinical microbiology at the Cambridge Institute for Therapeutic Immunology and Infectious Diseases who has been genetically sequencing SARS-CoV-2 and studying its genetic evolution, “I predict 417 is not an important enough mutation. Delta is bad enough as it is and I don’t think 417 will change [it] that much or become dominant.”

That’s because the 417 mutation isn’t new. Gupta says he has also found it in other major variants of the virus, including the B.1.1.7, or Alpha, variant, that was first identified in the U.K., and the B.1.351 or Beta variant first reported in South Africa. “We’ve seen it come up in a number of Alpha isolates and it didn’t take off or anything,” he says.''

https://time.com/6075858/delta-plus-variant/

 

[Sky1981]

@hmchan

Typical Western MSM

If you don’t read the whole article or can’t read it because of the paywall the message seems pretty grim. The headline seems to imply that doctors in Indonesia are dropping like flies, dying of covid despite being fully vaccinated with the Sinovac vaccine.

Can you imagine the outrage of some people reading this headline? “Chinese vaccines are useless.” “China is guilty of killing people by giving them a false sense of protection.” And the quintessential “Made in China, what do you expect?”

However, buried somewhere near the end of the article it says this:

Around 90% of Indonesian doctors—roughly 160,000 in all—have been vaccinated with Sinovac’s shot, according to the medical association, so the vaccinated doctors who died are only a tiny percentage of the total.

Data gathered by the medical association shows the death toll among doctors is down from the country’s last surge in December and January, when vaccinations had just begun and around 60 doctors died in each of the two months from Covid-19. So far in June, 26 doctors have died.

So….10 out of 160,000 vaccinated doctors died. And we don’t even know their underlying medical conditions.

This is just bad and irresponsible reporting. What are they trying to do here? Manufacturing doubts about the Chinese vaccine so that countries who can’t get the western vaccines delay vaccinations? While people keep dying and the chances of mutations keep increasing?

It boggles the mind. Just had to get this off my chest

 

[Wibble]

Any chance someone on here can offer some insight on the supposed much faster transmission rate of the Delta variant? There have been some weird stories out there, like how for the original strains it was about 15 minutes of close contact that gives you a big chance of infection, and now there's talk about only 10-15 seconds (!) of close contact being enough. For example:

Queensland’s chief health officer, Dr Jeannette Young, echoed these statements on Wednesday when she announced the state would shut its borders to people from Sydney hotspots.

“With the Delta variant, we’re seeing very fleeting contact leading to transmission,” Young said.

“At the start of this pandemic, I spoke about 15 minutes of close contact being a concern. Now it looks like it’s five to 10 seconds that’s a concern. The risk is so much higher now than it was only a year ago.”

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...eed-to-know-about-sydneys-delta-covid-variant

In my country all the normally reliable experts are only going as far as saying 'it spreads faster' without making any claims about how much faster exactly, and the Delta variant is currently roughly 5-10% of infections. But if chief health officers from a developed country are making such statements it seems extremely alarming, or am I missing something here?


EDIT: after some searching I think it's the extremely short transmission time in a specific mutation of the (general) Delta variant, called K417N that's being referred to.

https://www.reuters.com/business/he...t-coronavirus-with-k417n-mutation-2021-06-23/

The variant, called "Delta Plus" in India, was first reported in a Public Health England bulletin on June 11.

It is a sub-lineage of the Delta variant first detected in India and has acquired the spike protein mutation called K417N which is also found in the Beta variant first identified in South Africa.

And some more:

"But, says Ravindra Gupta, professor of clinical microbiology at the Cambridge Institute for Therapeutic Immunology and Infectious Diseases who has been genetically sequencing SARS-CoV-2 and studying its genetic evolution, “I predict 417 is not an important enough mutation. Delta is bad enough as it is and I don’t think 417 will change [it] that much or become dominant.”

That’s because the 417 mutation isn’t new. Gupta says he has also found it in other major variants of the virus, including the B.1.1.7, or Alpha, variant, that was first identified in the U.K., and the B.1.351 or Beta variant first reported in South Africa. “We’ve seen it come up in a number of Alpha isolates and it didn’t take off or anything,” he says.''

https://time.com/6075858/delta-plus-variant/

Part of that is that fleeting and even outdoor contact probably occurred even with the Alpha variant and we didn't know about it for sure. But from recent transmissions of delta here in Australia it is apparent that Delta is quite a bit more transmissible with confirmed cases of transmission from fleeting and outdoor contacts. Kids seem to be getting it more as well.

The good news is that the same measures as we have been using work well e.g. masks and distancing. And in one case of a super spreader event at a part in South Western Sydney 31 people were present. 24 caught coivd who weren't immunised. The 7 who had either their first shot or both shots tested negative. Not just reduced symptoms but were not infected at all. Only one event but it can't be bad news.

 

[Pexbo]

@hmchan

Typical Western MSM

If you don’t read the whole article or can’t read it because of the paywall the message seems pretty grim. The headline seems to imply that doctors in Indonesia are dropping like flies, dying of covid despite being fully vaccinated with the Sinovac vaccine.

Can you imagine the outrage of some people reading this headline? “Chinese vaccines are useless.” “China is guilty of killing people by giving them a false sense of protection.” And the quintessential “Made in China, what do you expect?”

However, buried somewhere near the end of the article it says this:




So….10 out of 160,000 vaccinated doctors died. And we don’t even know their underlying medical conditions.

This is just bad and irresponsible reporting. What are they trying to do here? Manufacturing doubts about the Chinese vaccine so that countries who can’t get the western vaccines delay vaccinations? While people keep dying and the chances of mutations keep increasing?

It boggles the mind. Just had to get this off my chest

Is this your first time meeting Rupert Murdoch?

 

[11101]

I saw in the news that EU has refused to include Covishield as a vaccine accepted for travel to eu. If so it's utterly ridiculous. Canada does accept Covishield but USA so far hasn't.

That should be quite easy to change. The vaccine itself has been through the approval process, all the manufacturer needs to do is get approval for their facilities in India.

 

[Massive Spanner]

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck...y-in-europe-no-indoor-dining-5480750-Jun2021/

Good lord we are a shambles.

Good thing NPHET know better than every other expert in Europe

 

[McGrathsipan]

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck...y-in-europe-no-indoor-dining-5480750-Jun2021/

Good lord we are a shambles.

Good thing NPHET know better than every other expert in Europe

Hitler Holohan is in charge.

Pubs will never be allowed to open again with him in charge of the country.
Its infuriating how weak Mehole Martin is

 

[Massive Spanner]

Hitler Holohan is in charge.

Pubs will never be allowed to open again with him in charge of the country.
Its infuriating how weak Mehole Martin is

It's a disgrace.

How is it ok for young workers to go work in the pubs and restaurants when they open but yet can't go in for a pint after?
How can they justify being the only country on the entire continent without indoor dining open, despite some of the lowest ICU's and hospitalisations and most of the vulnerable fully vaccinated?
How can they justify going ahead with this purely on NPHET"s advice without seeking 3rd party advice, despite NPHET being completely wrong on case numbers plenty of times?

We're a joke.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's a disgrace.

How is it ok for young workers to go work in the pubs and restaurants when they open but yet can't go in for a pint after?
How can they justify being the only country on the entire continent without indoor dining open, despite some of the lowest ICU's and hospitalisations and most of the vulnerable fully vaccinated?
How can they justify going ahead with this purely on NPHET"s advice without seeking 3rd party advice, despite NPHET being completely wrong on case numbers plenty of times?

We're a joke.

I’ve already answered some of those questions. The most obvious reason for being more cautious than the rest of Europe is the fact that we have a track record of cases escalating faster than the rest of Europe (by a wide margin) the last time indoor hospitality opened up.

Allowing vaccinated people into pubs/restaurants is a way to get indoor hospitality started quicker than it would otherwise. Which is obviously better than nobody eating/drinking indoors at all. It’s also already happening in some of these other EU countries you’re envious of.

I think they should find a way for all employees at these establishments to get vaccinated straight away. That would be the least they can do for an industry that’s having a shitty time. It might also help with staff retention. Which I know is a huge problem at the moment.

 

[Massive Spanner]

I’ve already answered some of those questions. The most obvious reason for being more cautious than the rest of Europe is the fact that we have a track record of cases escalating faster than the rest of Europe (by a wide margin) the last time indoor hospitality opened up.

Allowing vaccinated people into pubs/restaurants is a way to get indoor hospitality started quicker than it would otherwise. Which is obviously better than nobody eating/drinking indoors at all. It’s also already happening in some of these other EU countries you’re envious of.

I think they should find a way for all employees at these establishments to get vaccinated straight away. That would be the least they can do for an industry that’s having a shitty time. It might also help with staff retention. Which I know is a huge problem at the moment.

I don't know why you keep peddling that as an answer. I've already said that last time we opened indoor dining under completely different circumstances and then you just stopped responding. We would quite clearly be opening it under much, much better circumstances this time. We actually did it last summer and never had exponetial growth, and this time, we have all the vulnerable vaccinated!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I don't know why you keep peddling that as an answer. I've already said that last time we opened indoor dining under completely different circumstances and then you just stopped responding. We would quite clearly be opening it under much, much better circumstances this time. We actually did it last summer and never had exponetial growth, and this time, we have all the vulnerable vaccinated!

How were the circumstances “completely different” the last time? As in, how were they different from the rest of Europe? Because that’s the only comparison I’m making. The last time we reopened hospitality our cases increased at a rate that was much much higher than every other country in Europe. From a starting point that was lower than almost all of them.

If we do a lot worse than our nearest neighbours this time around (who are substantially further down the road to full vaccination) then we’re in deep shit.

 

[Massive Spanner]

How were the circumstances “completely different” the last time? As in, how were they different from the rest of Europe? Because that’s the only comparison I’m making. The last time we reopened hospitality our cases increased at a rate that was much much higher than every other country in Europe. From a starting point that was lower than almost all of them.

If we do a lot worse than our nearest neighbours this time around (who are substantially further down the road to full vaccination) then we’re in deep shit.

Can you point me to how they were the exact same as the rest of Europe. I don't recall any other European countries going from full, six week lockdown to basically everything being opening remotely as quickly as we did, despite case numbers not really going down during that lockdown. Also, it was winter, Christmas is a massive thing here too and pretty much everyone was flying round the country, partying and staying with their families. It was a total shitshow. It's completely incomparable to now opening a single thing, indoor dining. Where is your proof that indoor dining is the big be all and end all that causes case numbers to fly up exactly? Do you have any? It doesn't seem to be doing it in every other European country.

Also, we've already opened up plenty of other areas that causes cases to go up the last times we exited lockdown, and cases haven't gone up, ICU numbers and hospitalisations have actually gone down!

Also, it's summer, and we have the fecking vaccines.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Can you point me to how they were the exact same as the rest of Europe. I don't recall any other European countries going from full, six week lockdown to basically everything being opening remotely as quickly as we did, despite case numbers not really going down during that lockdown. Also, it was winter, Christmas is a massive thing here too and pretty much everyone was flying round the country, partying and staying with their families. It was a total shitshow.

It's completely incomparable to now opening a single thing, indoor dining. Where is your proof that indoor dining is the big be all and end all that causes case numbers to fly up exactly? Do you have any? It doesn't seem to be doing it in every other European country.

So you’ve got no reason for why the rest of Europe Ireland had a less rapid surge in December. Nothing you’ve mentioned there is unique to Ireland. Yet our surge was worse than any of them. And our starting point in terms of having low numbers prior to reopening was amongst the very best. Which is exactly my point.

I don’t know for certain if indoor dining/drinking is a much bigger problem for Ireland than the rest of Europe. But the evidence from the end of last year implies it is. And it’s not as though Ireland doesn’t have a reputation for being a bit too fond of hanging out in pubs.

Also, we've already opened up plenty of other areas that causes cases to go up the last times we exited lockdown, and cases haven't gone up, ICU numbers and hospitalisations have actually gone down!

Also, it's summer, and we have the fecking vaccines.

I know it’s summer. I know we have vaccines. The weather is better in the UK and they have a higher % vaccinated. They had 20k+ cases yesterday and they’re almost doubling week by week. That’s the obvious worry for us, combined with our track record of being able to inflate case numbers better than anyone.

I’m repeating myself now so should probably agree to disagree if you think I’m talking crap. I certainly don’t have all the answers. I don’t even think I agree with NPHET. I’m just explaining their rationale.

 

[FootballHQ]

I don’t know what the solution is either. I think NPHET are erring on the side of caution and I don’t think they’ll get their way. There’s going to be some sort of compromise. What’s going on right now is a media campaign to manage expectations. I hope hindsight eventually proves NPHET were being far too cautious. That wasn’t the case with the reopening at the end of last year but could be the case this time round.

And the way things got so badly out of hand, so quickly, in winter is the reason we’re not getting the same freedoms as other EU countries. I genuinely don’t know why this is but when we’re given those freedoms we seem to end up with dramatically worse outcomes. We went from the lowest cases per 100k in Europe to the highest, bar none. All in the space of a few weeks, with a much less infectious variant. That’s obviously a factor in the caution we’re seeing now.

What's your opinion on vaccinating under 18s Pogue?

Read the other day scientists were saying trying to get close to some sort of HIT for delta variant was unrealistic without majority of kids from 12 up getting jabbed at some point in next two months.

That's why it's a bit stupid from Javid to be as bullish as he is about everything unlocking on July 19th as then people will just think no one will ever get ill from covid again despite potentially 10m kids acting as spreaders during the holidays.

We'll probably never know for sure but surely played a part in the superspread that started to significantly increase from September 2020.

 

[Massive Spanner]

So you’ve got no reason for why the rest of Europe Ireland had a less rapid surge in December. Nothing you’ve mentioned there is unique to Ireland. Yet our surge was worse than any of them. And our starting point in terms of having low numbers prior to reopening was amongst the very best. Which is exactly my point.

I don’t know for certain if indoor dining/drinking is a much bigger problem for Ireland than the rest of Europe. But the evidence from the end of last year implies it is. And it’s not as though Ireland doesn’t have a reputation for being a bit too fond of hanging out in pubs.


I know it’s summer. I know we have vaccines. The weather is better in the UK and they have a higher % vaccinated. They had 20k+ cases yesterday and they’re almost doubling week by week. That’s the obvious worry for us, combined with our track record of being able to inflate case numbers better than anyone.

I’m repeating myself now so should probably agree to disagree if you think I’m talking crap. I certainly don’t have all the answers. I don’t even think I agree with NPHET. I’m just explaining their rationale.

I don't know what the rest of Europe did though, do you? Did any of them open to the same extent we did? Either way it's going on speculation to say that because we had such a bad rise in winter under totally different circumstances to this, we will experience that surge again, that's my point here.

NPHET have a sole purpose; keep deaths at an absolute minimum and keep the health service from being overwhelmed. They have no obligation to manage finances, get people back to work or try to manage Covid as opposed to completely shutting it down. That's the problem, they will do everything in their power to achieve their goals despite the consequences to other aspects of society. It's not them I blame, they're doing their job, it's our spineless government who will obey their every whim and not seek independent advice (which is madness).

 

[hmchan]

@hmchan

Typical Western MSM

If you don’t read the whole article or can’t read it because of the paywall the message seems pretty grim. The headline seems to imply that doctors in Indonesia are dropping like flies, dying of covid despite being fully vaccinated with the Sinovac vaccine.

Can you imagine the outrage of some people reading this headline? “Chinese vaccines are useless.” “China is guilty of killing people by giving them a false sense of protection.” And the quintessential “Made in China, what do you expect?”

However, buried somewhere near the end of the article it says this:




So….10 out of 160,000 vaccinated doctors died. And we don’t even know their underlying medical conditions.

This is just bad and irresponsible reporting. What are they trying to do here? Manufacturing doubts about the Chinese vaccine so that countries who can’t get the western vaccines delay vaccinations? While people keep dying and the chances of mutations keep increasing?

It boggles the mind. Just had to get this off my chest

That's why the first thing university teaches is that mass media are unreliable sources. Only studies published in peer-reviewed journals could be cited as references which, again, Sinovac has failed to perform.

 

[jojojo]

Scotland's cases rise again and here's part of this week's briefing from Public Health Scotland.

Tweet

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[golden_blunder]

https://www.rte.ie/sport/euro-2020/...0-covid-infected-scots-attended-euros-events/

Well who knew?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

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@Massive Spanner

Good thread on the model behind the recent concerns about delta variant. Now these things aren’t always correct but they’re the best method we have to try and predict the future of this pandemic. And they do take into account the stuff you mentioned before about it being summer and people vaccinated. Still produces some fairly grim scenarios.

 

[Ecstatic]

@hmchan

Typical Western MSM

If you don’t read the whole article or can’t read it because of the paywall the message seems pretty grim. The headline seems to imply that doctors in Indonesia are dropping like flies, dying of covid despite being fully vaccinated with the Sinovac vaccine.

Can you imagine the outrage of some people reading this headline? “Chinese vaccines are useless.” “China is guilty of killing people by giving them a false sense of protection.” And the quintessential “Made in China, what do you expect?”

However, buried somewhere near the end of the article it says this:




So….10 out of 160,000 vaccinated doctors died. And we don’t even know their underlying medical conditions.

This is just bad and irresponsible reporting. What are they trying to do here? Manufacturing doubts about the Chinese vaccine so that countries who can’t get the western vaccines delay vaccinations? While people keep dying and the chances of mutations keep increasing?

It boggles the mind. Just had to get this off my chest

The key message suggested in the title is that around 40% of the doctors who died were vaccinated.

They didn't suggest all the vaccinated doctors died but rather wanted to convey the message that somebody vaccinated can die.

Do you mean the title is not accurate and misleading? If yes, why?

 

[Massive Spanner]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

@Massive Spanner

Good thread on the model behind the recent concerns about delta variant. Now these things aren’t always correct but they’re the best method we have to try and predict the future of this pandemic. And they do take into account the stuff you mentioned before about it being summer and people vaccinated. Still produces some fairly grim scenarios.

Mainland Europe already has the delta variant in circulation. If their models are right, it sounds like all those countries who opened up way before us are totally fecked, time will tell whether we were the dopes or they were.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Mainland Europe already has the delta variant in circulation. If their models are right, it sounds like all those countries who opened up way before us are totally fecked, time will tell whether we were the dopes or they were.

They have it in circulation but it’s already our dominant strain. Courtesy of our leaky border with the UK. Same reason we were the first non-UK country to get hammered by Kent variant.

 

[Holocene]

Anyone know how accurate the rapid antigen home kits are? I've tested negative twice (over two days). But I've got a persistent cough that hurts my chest and I'm feeling achey all over my body. Felt like this since Monday.

I've done a PCR test and should get the results tomorrow. I had my first dose of Pfizer a week ago. Rotten luck if I've got covid.

 

[Wolverine]

Anyone know how accurate the rapid antigen home kits are? I've tested negative twice (over two days). But I've got a persistent cough that hurts my chest and I'm feeling achey all over my body. Felt like this since Monday.

I've done a PCR test and should get the results tomorrow. I had my first dose of Pfizer a week ago. Rotten luck if I've got covid.

False positives are rare.

False negatives can be high - its controversial, it varies on who's doing it - some studies suggest that general public doing self-testing have higher chance of false negative compared to a health professional. Also said to depend on viral load. If you've tested negative twice, and seems like you took the test quickly after symptom onset it likely that its not covid but you did the correct thing in arranging PCR.

I'd contact GP regarding your chest pain though. Or 111 even. Especially if you get breathless or feel dizzy at any point. If you want to wait for PCR test then fine but even if can't wait dont hesitant to get medical advice if you feel more unwell.

Hope its negative anyway and feel better soon.

 

[Ludens the Red]

Had the old covid .. just the one vaccination so far.
Few observations…..

seemed like hayfever at first. All of the same symptoms except had an added cough. Took an allergy pill and when the cough didn’t go I knew I had it and I knew exactly where I caught it from.

Did five home tests (rapid antigen tests), three were positive, two negative. So really conclusive and helped a lot……..
Anyway ignored that shit and Did the PCR and positive. Isolated.
Had a cough and blocked nose for about two days then the cough went and that was it really BUT feck me ive been nasally ever since. It’s been two weeks and I’m still nasally and it’s a bit annoying. I now permanently sound like I have a blocked nose but it’s not actually blocked. It’s really weird. I also can’t smell certain things.

Gonna elaborate. I can’t smell shitty smells. Being at home for ten days, levels of self hygiene wasn’t attended to as frequently but I noticed I never smelt bad. That didn’t add up. Threw bins out and didn’t smell any of the crap.Can still smell nice things though.

Once I uploaded my result. The nhs covid app advised five people I was with to isolate, even though I’d seen them three days before I even had symptoms. Seems very flawed and a bit too risk adverse. I don’t understand it’s logic.

 

[hmchan]

Had the old covid .. just the one vaccination so far.
Few observations…..

seemed like hayfever at first. All of the same symptoms except had an added cough. Took an allergy pill and when the cough didn’t go I knew I had it and I knew exactly where I caught it from.

Did five home tests (rapid antigen tests), three were positive, two negative. So really conclusive and helped a lot……..
Anyway ignored that shit and Did the PCR and positive. Isolated.
Had a cough and blocked nose for about two days then the cough went and that was it really BUT feck me ive been nasally ever since. It’s been two weeks and I’m still nasally and it’s a bit annoying. I now permanently sound like I have a blocked nose but it’s not actually blocked. It’s really weird. I also can’t smell certain things.

Gonna elaborate. I can’t smell shitty smells. Being at home for ten days, levels of self hygiene wasn’t attended to as frequently but I noticed I never smelt bad. That didn’t add up. Threw bins out and didn’t smell any of the crap.Can still smell nice things though.

Once I uploaded my result. The nhs covid app advised five people I was with to isolate, even though I’d seen them three days before I even had symptoms. Seems very flawed and a bit too risk adverse. I don’t understand it’s logic.

Like I've always said, rapid antigen tests are just for fun. Not sure why people still think they can be incorporated into policy making.

 

[Wibble]

Once I uploaded my result. The nhs covid app advised five people I was with to isolate, even though I’d seen them three days before I even had symptoms. Seems very flawed and a bit too risk adverse. I don’t understand it’s logic.

You can be, and probably usually are, infectious before symptoms arise. And I'd guess that simply because you think you know where you caught it from they can't custom adjust isolation advice as many times this assumption will be wrong (even if correct in your case).

 

[Ludens the Red]

Like I've always said, rapid antigen tests are just for fun. Not sure why people still think they can be incorporated into policy making.

Yuh, doesn’t seem the most reliable bit of kit. Heard a few too many others with similar tales.

You can be, and probably usually are, infectious before symptoms arise. And I'd guess that simply because you think you know where you caught it from they can't custom adjust isolation advice as many times this assumption will be wrong (even if correct in your case).

True. Although interestingly none of the people I was around before I had symptoms got infected despite spending an entire day watching football with some of them. And that was within two days of going to the place where I was infected (it’s the only place I went that week as That was a week I wfh)
I feel the app is a bit of a mess. I can see it’s definitely helped a lot but also doesn’t really take into account the data you input and instead just plays it ridiculously safe.

 

[Ady87]

Probably unrelated but my nearly 2 year old had a consistent 39+ temp yesterday and also vomited for the first time which freaked him out. Our local walk in was backed up for several hours so we decided to go to Alder Hey where we have been in and out in 40 mins in the past.

When we got there 53 kids were in the queue in front of us, most of them also with fevers. We waited 7.30pm till 1.15am then gave up as there were still 18 ahead in the queue + emergency admissions.

Got up and rung my GP this morning, both doctors are off…with COVID.

 

[Wibble]

Yuh, doesn’t seem the most reliable bit of kit. Heard a few too many others with similar tales.

I think I saw that false positives aren't too bad but false negatives like you got can be as high as 50%.

 

[jojojo]

Yuh, doesn’t seem the most reliable bit of kit. Heard a few too many others with similar tales.


True. Although interestingly none of the people I was around before I had symptoms got infected despite spending an entire day watching football with some of them. And that was within two days of going to the place where I was infected (it’s the only place I went that week as That was a week I wfh)
I feel the app is a bit of a mess. I can see it’s definitely helped a lot but also doesn’t really take into account the data you input and instead just plays it ridiculously safe.

One of the complications with Delta is that people catching it are reporting a different symptom set to before. It feels more like hayfever or a bit of a cold to most people - with headache/sniffles more common than cough/fever. For some of them the cough/fever kick in a couple of days later (if at all) and the breathlessness etc a couple of days after that (if at all).

It's always looked like people are at their most infective on the day they start showing symptoms (and highly infective a couple of days either side). Now, not unreasonably, a lot of people might ignore the first day or so of symptoms as hayfever - and just think they should pick up some antihistamine next time they're in the supermarket.

At any rate, the app playing it safe in terms of starting the countdown early isn't unreasonable.

In terms of who gets infected there is a massive amount of luck involved but a couple of open windows or even draughty doors can matter more than seems reasonable.

 

[Rado_N]

I feel the app is a bit of a mess. I can see it’s definitely helped a lot but also doesn’t really take into account the data you input and instead just plays it ridiculously safe.

The worst thing about the app is there’s no process to check out of places after you’ve check in.

Have a look in your venue history; say you go somewhere for lunch, you check in at 12:30 and you’re there an hour, but if you don’t go anywhere else that day where you need to check in, the covid app records that you were at that place until midnight.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I can’t smell shitty smells. Being at home for ten days, levels of self hygiene wasn’t attended to as frequently but I noticed I never smelt bad. That didn’t add up. Threw bins out and didn’t smell any of the crap.Can still smell nice things though.

Sounds like covid has given you a super power.

 

[Abizzz]

Probably unrelated but my nearly 2 year old had a consistent 39+ temp yesterday and also vomited for the first time which freaked him out. Our local walk in was backed up for several hours so we decided to go to Alder Hey where we have been in and out in 40 mins in the past.

When we got there 53 kids were in the queue in front of us, most of them also with fevers. We waited 7.30pm till 1.15am then gave up as there were still 18 ahead in the queue + emergency admissions.

Got up and rung my GP this morning, both doctors are off…with COVID.

Arr that's tough, hope she/he is feeling better already and the temperature is down again. My niece came down with a heavy fever + cold pretty much exactly 3 days after the school allowed the kids to take off the masks in the classroom, and I hear loads of her friends have the same (negative covid tests though).

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

The average person is properly stupid.

In the office today. I’m reasonably young and averagely healthy. No concerns. But when I come into my office once a week I take a Lateral Flow test an hour before cycling in. I wear a sealed medical mask when I go to the toilet.

Why? Because it’s me trying to look after others. I’ve had two doses of Pfizer. But science hasn’t told me with certainty that I can’t be the guy that carries Covid into a space I share with others. It’s close to zero effort and such little impact on me to act as I do.

But the amount of people that challenge me on wearing a damn mask to take a shit as if I’m wearing it on THEIR face. It’s crazy. Obviously I don’t like wearing a mask. Of course I think it’s going beyond what’s necessary to self-test before travel. But equally, why the Fcuk do people make it their business?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The average person is properly stupid.

In the office today. I’m reasonably young and averagely healthy. No concerns. But when I come into my office once a week I take a Lateral Flow test an hour before cycling in. I wear a sealed medical mask when I go to the toilet.

Why? Because it’s me trying to look after others. I’ve had two doses of Pfizer. But science hasn’t told me with certainty that I can’t be the guy that carries Covid into a space I share with others. It’s close to zero effort and such little impact on me to act as I do.

But the amount of people that challenge me on wearing a damn mask to take a shit as if I’m wearing it on THEIR face. It’s crazy. Obviously I don’t like wearing a mask. Of course I think it’s going beyond what’s necessary to self-test before travel. But equally, why the Fcuk do people make it their business?

To be fair, I can see why people object to the idea that wearing a sealed medical mask to the toilet is necessary. It looks almost certain that covid will never go away and vaccines will never be 100% effective. Which raises the possibility that - if we follow your logic - everyone should always do what you’re doing now. Forever. And that’s a grim thought, which will upset a lot of people.

Obviously, acting on that thought and confronting/challenging you is a dick move.

 

[Holocene]

False positives are rare.

False negatives can be high - its controversial, it varies on who's doing it - some studies suggest that general public doing self-testing have higher chance of false negative compared to a health professional. Also said to depend on viral load. If you've tested negative twice, and seems like you took the test quickly after symptom onset it likely that its not covid but you did the correct thing in arranging PCR.

I'd contact GP regarding your chest pain though. Or 111 even. Especially if you get breathless or feel dizzy at any point. If you want to wait for PCR test then fine but even if can't wait dont hesitant to get medical advice if you feel more unwell.

Hope its negative anyway and feel better soon.

Thanks for the reply.

I got my PCR results this morning and I tested positive for Covid. Which makes sense given the way I've been feeling.

My chest is actually feeling better today but now I have a sore throat that makes swallowing difficult.

I will definitely call 111 if my symptoms get worse. I've also bought an oximeter to measure my oxygen levels. I had pneumonia twice as a child so I really need to be careful.

 

[horsechoker]

The average person is properly stupid.

In the office today. I’m reasonably young and averagely healthy. No concerns. But when I come into my office once a week I take a Lateral Flow test an hour before cycling in. I wear a sealed medical mask when I go to the toilet.

Why? Because it’s me trying to look after others. I’ve had two doses of Pfizer. But science hasn’t told me with certainty that I can’t be the guy that carries Covid into a space I share with others. It’s close to zero effort and such little impact on me to act as I do.

But the amount of people that challenge me on wearing a damn mask to take a shit as if I’m wearing it on THEIR face. It’s crazy. Obviously I don’t like wearing a mask. Of course I think it’s going beyond what’s necessary to self-test before travel. But equally, why the Fcuk do people make it their business?

I still see people walk out of public toilets without washing their hands.

Humanity is fecked.