Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Escobar]

Without our new signings being ready just yet and with Rashford, Cavani and Scott out, surely this isnt a surprise?
How could there be improvements?

But just improving players wont do it over the season. We need to be better as a team if we want to challenge

 

[432JuanMata]

Made our squad the best on paper in years fixing the right areas and building. A squad good enough to challenge that is the main things he has done.
But just because you can build a boat doesn’t mean you can sail it and that’s the worry I have

 

[macheda14]

I think based on the last few years, if you are ahead of city in the league, you have won the title. Don't see this changing....

I mean you said they look stronger than last season. I don't think that's true.

 

[Giggsyking]

Forget the DM, forget the new RB. It does not matter, even if we buy Messi and Kante. He is the weakest point in the team. You can fluke your way to a trophy with world class players and a mediocre manager. But you will never ever be able to maintain success with such a mediocre standard manager. That is we hoping he flukes his way to a big trophy (depending 100% on the players with little or no work from his side), but I doubt he can do it. He should leave as soon as possible and my guess would be at the end of the season.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

I think by Christmas we will be well in the title race and hopefully cruising into the knockouts of the CL, and any early season jitters will be forgotten.

Dropping two points away to Saints isn't that bad in the scheme of things it's just annoying because we had so many early games without having to face the bigger teams and it was nice to think we would go on an amazing run and pick up maximum points.

The early signs of Pogba, Bruno and Greenwood are very encouraging and we still have Sancho, Varane and Cavani to get going. It's all looking good at the moment .

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think the bolded part is a little unfair on Ole. Very few of our fanbase would put Fred or McTominay anywhere close to a PL best XI, and yet we've progressed in our league finishes and also gone deep in most competitions we've played in. Wouldn't that be a good example of us finding a solution from within? Lindelof & De Gea would probably also qualify seeing that nobody on here rates them.

Of course there a limit to what can be achieved with what you have, which is why Chelsea bought Lukaku instead of trying to get by with Abraham or Werner. Even City with all of their recent trophies are looking outside the club for the answers to how they take that next step and win the CL.

We’ve done ok with them but they’re also widely perceived as a problem. Players that will stop us winning the really big prizes.

Compare and contrast with the likes of Henderson at Liverpool. Or Alexander-Arnold. Turning youngsters or written off older players into mainstays at title winning teams.

See also Conte getting so much more out of Lukaku at Inter than we got out of him at United, or players like Moses when he was at Chelsea.

To be clear, I’m not saying I want Conte at United but have yet to see Ole demonstrate the ability to turn water into wine you see from him and other top managers.

 

[Bebestation]

We’ve done ok with them but they’re also widely perceived as a problem. Players that will stop us winning the really big prizes.

Compare and contrast with the likes of Henderson at Liverpool. Or Alexander-Arnold. Turning youngsters or written off older players into mainstays at title winning teams.

See also Conte getting so much more out of Lukaku at Inter than we got out of him at United, or players like Moses when he was at Chelsea.

To be clear, I’m not saying I want Conte at United but have yet to see Ole demonstrate the ability to turn water into wine you see from him and other top managers.

I'm not sure if I've got the understanding of this - but haven't we seen an improvement on players like Shaw, Fred, Lindelof - purely as players that were struggling before and doing better now? I mean you could argue Pogba is playing better now for us than he ever did back when he was playing deeper for any other league managers. Mctominay and Greenwood have improved too.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

.

We’ve done ok with them but they’re also widely perceived as a problem. Players that will stop us winning the really big prizes.

Compare and contrast with the likes of Henderson at Liverpool. Or Alexander-Arnold. Turning youngsters or written off older players into mainstays at title winning teams.

See also Conte getting so much more out of Lukaku at Inter than we got out of him at United, or players like Moses when he was at Chelsea.

To be clear, I’m not saying I want Conte at United but have yet to see Ole demonstrate the ability to turn water into wine you see from him and other top managers.

Absolutely. Another example - see the perception of Chelsea's squad pre and post Tuchel. When Lampard was there, the defence was considered to be poor and winning the CL a laughable claim. With Tuchel their defence is a strength, they made up ground to get top 4 and now people look at their squad with envy, apparently. And he's only signed Lukaku in that time. Great managers transform teams.

 

[Bestietom]

We’ve done ok with them but they’re also widely perceived as a problem. Players that will stop us winning the really big prizes.

Compare and contrast with the likes of Henderson at Liverpool. Or Alexander-Arnold. Turning youngsters or written off older players into mainstays at title winning teams.

See also Conte getting so much more out of Lukaku at Inter than we got out of him at United, or players like Moses when he was at Chelsea.

To be clear, I’m not saying I want Conte at United but have yet to see Ole demonstrate the ability to turn water into wine you see from him and other top managers.

Yes, See what you mean. The cup semi finals and final over the past 2 years tells you something. Substitutions in some games are crazy. Hope he learns quickly.

 

[Bebestation]

Made our squad the best on paper in years fixing the right areas and building. A squad good enough to challenge that is the main things he has done.
But just because you can build a boat doesn’t mean you can sail it and that’s the worry I have

This is the best explanation.

This is why I personally would be happy with us to continue building the boat for one more season of transfer windows and then let someone else come sail the boat. The boat he is building is beautiful and it may not be with the next manager.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

I'm not sure if I've got the understanding of this - but haven't we seen an improvement on players like Shaw, Fred, Lindelof - purely as players that were struggling before and doing better now? I mean you could argue Pogba is playing better now for us than he ever did back when he was playing deeper for any other league managers. Mctominay and Greenwood have improved too.

Shaw's improvement under Ole was hardly mentioned at the Euros. I think Rio was the only one to bring it up when he was slating Mourinho. Now if he made that transformation under Klopp or Pep pundits would never shut up about it.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Made our squad the best on paper in years fixing the right areas and building. A squad good enough to challenge that is the main things he has done.
But just because you can build a boat doesn’t mean you can sail it and that’s the worry I have

Well put. I've said it all along, we may not win things with Ole but I'm sure he's going to leave the club in a great place for the next manager.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I'm not sure if I've got the understanding of this - but haven't we seen an improvement on players like Shaw, Fred, Lindelof - purely as players that were struggling before and doing better now? I mean you could argue Pogba is playing better now for us than he ever did back when he was playing deeper for any other league managers. Mctominay and Greenwood have improved too.

Fred and Lindelof are widely perceived as holding us back. So they’re not great examples. Especially when Ole himself doesn’t rate Lindelof, hence he signed Varane.

Shaw is a good example. But it’s impossible to know how much of his improvement is down to Ole’s man management and how much is a rebound from the toxic way his former manager destroyed his confidence.

 

[Bebestation]

Well put. I've said it all along, we may not win things with Ole but I'm sure he's going to leave the club in a great place for the next manager.

This is why I'm fine being patient for once and let Ole finish building the boat the best he can because even if we are not the best yet - we are improving year by year, transfer window by transfer window.

Why start crying about things when we are arguably a year away from having a near complete first XI & squad? We are arguably a CDM, a competitive RB and a ST from some sort of completion - and that's because of Ole. If he can't win things with a complete squad then let him go; but we will ultimately be left with a complete squad either way.

 

[Robbie Boy]

.

Absolutely. Another example - see the perception of Chelsea's squad pre and post Tuchel. When Lampard was there, the defence was considered to be poor and winning the CL a laughable claim. With Tuchel their defence is a strength, they made up ground to get top 4 and now people look at their squad with envy, apparently. And he's only signed Lukaku in that time. Great managers transform teams.

I find the Chelsea thing hilarious. It's the same predictable 'Ole fanatics' beating the drum that Chelsea now all of a sudden have an amazing squad. The exact same squad minus Lukaku last season wasn't rated at all on here, and the general consensus was that we had the better squad. Now that Chelsea have signed a cast off that Ole didn't want, they're better than us despite the fact we have signed Varane and Sancho.

It's all agenda driven nonsense, as most of these posters feel Chelsea will finish ahead of us, so they're now pretending their squad is so much more superior to ours. It's a classic case of lowering the standards, so if Ole only achieves the bare minimum, they can quote themselves at the end of the season to say "look, told you, this is all I expected from this squad". It's just predictable at this point and these posters don't have the ability to debate in good faith.

At the end of the day, these very same posters said give him 3 years - because something about Klopp - to build his squad and show what he can do. Now here we are, we have nearly reached that point, and these very same posters are lowering expectations and getting the excuses in early. Honestly, they're every bit as tedious as the rampant Ole out crowd. They know Chelsea now have a top manager, but instead of saying so, they'll criticise him at every juncture, about things they wouldn't dare criticise Ole for.

 

[OleBoiii]

Of course several players have improved under Ole. The evidence for that is clear.

Whether that is mainly down to Ole or the players themselves is impossible for us to tell, but it shouldn't matter anyways. The end result is what matters. And if the manager can be blamed for players underperforming, then he should also get praise for the players who have improved. It's as simple as that.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

I find the Chelsea thing hilarious. It's the same predictable 'Ole fanatics' beating the drum that Chelsea now all of a sudden have an amazing squad. The exact same squad minus Lukaku last season wasn't rated at all on here, and the general consensus was that we had the better squad. Now that Chelsea have signed a cast off that Ole didn't want, they're better than us despite the fact we have signed Varane and Sancho.

It's all agenda driven nonsense, as most of these posters feel Chelsea will finish ahead of us, so they're now pretending their squad is so much more superior to ours. It's a classic case of lowering the standards, so if Ole only achieves the bare minimum, they can quote themselves at the end of the season to say "look, told you, this is all I expected from this squad". It's just predictable at this point and these posters don't have the ability to debate in good faith.

At the end of the day, these very same posters said give him 3 years - because something about Klopp - to build his squad and show what he can do. Now here we are, we have nearly reached that point, and these very same posters are lowering expectations and getting the excuses in early. Honestly, they're every bit as tedious as the rampant Ole out crowd. They know Chelsea now have a top manager, but instead of saying so, they'll criticise him at every juncture, about things they wouldn't dare criticise Ole for.

Completely agree. At the end of the day top managers transform football clubs. Ours just makes us a little better but not quite enough compared to his/our rivals. Personally I think we should see him for what he is - someone who has calmed things post Jose'd madness and slowly moved us towards being a team which has potential that just lacks a proper quality manager to take them to the next level. But we won't as our dream is for Ole to be the next SAF and give us stability for the next 20 and we'll miss out any other alternatives as we did with Tuchel.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I find the Chelsea thing hilarious. It's the same predictable 'Ole fanatics' beating the drum that Chelsea now all of a sudden have an amazing squad. The exact same squad minus Lukaku last season wasn't rated at all on here, and the general consensus was that we had the better squad. Now that Chelsea have signed a cast off that Ole didn't want, they're better than us despite the fact we have signed Varane and Sancho.

It's all agenda driven nonsense, as most of these posters feel Chelsea will finish ahead of us, so they're now pretending their squad is so much more superior to ours. It's a classic case of lowering the standards, so if Ole only achieves the bare minimum, they can quote themselves at the end of the season to say "look, told you, this is all I expected from this squad". It's just predictable at this point and these posters don't have the ability to debate in good faith.

At the end of the day, these very same posters said give him 3 years - because something about Klopp - to build his squad and show what he can do. Now here we are, we have nearly reached that point, and these very same posters are lowering expectations and getting the excuses in early. Honestly, they're every bit as tedious as the rampant Ole out crowd.

I always felt Chelsea started last season with an amazing squad. And a terrible manager. They spent a shit-load of money on some of the most exciting attacking footballers around. Their biggest problem was Fwank.

Although I do agree that the massive improvement when he left is a great example of the impact of a top manager. We’ve only oncd seen that sort of managerial impact at United since Fergie retired and that was in Ole’s opening run of games.

But it’s hard not to worry that was down to shaking off Mourinho’s unique brand of toxic negativity and Ole bringing some much-needed positivity more than any kind of nuts and bolts overhaul of what we do on the pitch. Hence it was very short-lived.

Of course, it could all go tits up at Chelsea soon enough. Maybe getting rid of Frank was the only change they needed. Time will tell. That does look unlikely though.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I find the Chelsea thing hilarious. It's the same predictable 'Ole fanatics' beating the drum that Chelsea now all of a sudden have an amazing squad. The exact same squad minus Lukaku last season wasn't rated at all on here, and the general consensus was that we had the better squad. Now that Chelsea have signed a cast off that Ole didn't want, they're better than us despite the fact we have signed Varane and Sancho.

It's all agenda driven nonsense, as most of these posters feel Chelsea will finish ahead of us, so they're now pretending their squad is so much more superior to ours. It's a classic case of lowering the standards, so if Ole only achieves the bare minimum, they can quote themselves at the end of the season to say "look, told you, this is all I expected from this squad". It's just predictable at this point and these posters don't have the ability to debate in good faith.

At the end of the day, these very same posters said give him 3 years - because something about Klopp - to build his squad and show what he can do. Now here we are, we have nearly reached that point, and these very same posters are lowering expectations and getting the excuses in early. Honestly, they're every bit as tedious as the rampant Ole out crowd. They know Chelsea now have a top manager, but instead of saying so, they'll criticise him at every juncture, about things they wouldn't dare criticise Ole for.

Not so sure, I think it is reasonable to feel Ole is still learning and developing as a manager and should be afforded this season to continue to do so. I think he has improved as a manager to this point but he does need to deliver silverware this season.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

I'm not Ole out. I'm just not sold on him either. To me I'd think about him as being on a probationary period of a job still.

If I'm honest do I think he will ever be good enough? No I don't.

If I was to guess our season right now I'd say 4th and no trophies and I'd part ways with him if that's the case.

Atleast he'll have left a new manager with a better team if that was to happen.

Exactly my feelings to.

If we finish 4th with no trophies he has to be moved on considering the amount of money he has spent, in combination with the amount of time he will of had.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

This is why I'm fine being patient for once and let Ole finish building the boat the best he can because even if we are not the best yet - we are improving year by year, transfer window by transfer window.

Why start crying about things when we are arguably a year away from having a near complete first XI & squad? We are arguably a CDM, a competitive RB and a ST from some sort of completion - and that's because of Ole. If he can't win things with a complete squad then let him go; but we will ultimately be left with a complete squad either way.

If players are signed in those three positions another reason/excuse for not challenging would be found. Probably the keepers. There's no such thing as a complete squad

 

[Robbie Boy]

Completely agree. At the end of the day top managers transform football clubs. Ours just makes us a little better but not quite enough compared to his/our rivals. Personally I think we should see him for what he is - someone who has calmed things post Jose'd madness and slowly moved us towards being a team which has potential that just lacks a proper quality manager to take them to the next level. But we won't as our dream is for Ole to be the next SAF and give us stability for the next 20 and we'll miss out any other alternatives as we did with Tuchel.

I have to be honest, I wasn't sure at all about Tuchel, but he's done an unbelievable job since he took over at Chelsea. With literally the same squad as Lampard, he went and won the Champions League. It's evident from Chelsea's opening games this season, that he has well and truly stamped his identity on the team. It's funny, Jorgingo all of a sudden is rated on here when he was utterly derided under Lampard. It just shows what the really top managers are capable of doing. Tuchel has literally signed Lukaku and totally transformed the shit-show football from the Lampard era.

Now, the wheels may well fall off the wagon, who knows? But if Chelsea have a far superior season to us after appointing a perceived 'top manager', then it's pretty clear what the common denominator is holding us back, and it's not the squad. I still feel we'll have a good season and be there or thereabouts, but the Ole obsessives are already frying my brain with their inane excuses.

He should have this season, barring a total shit show and a top appointment becoming available. But contingency plans should be in place for next summer if he fails to challenge for top honors, and improve our football. By the end of the season, he'll have had 3.5 years and hundreds of millions of investment, so no more excuses. If we don't seriously challenge, he has to go and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Not so sure, I think it is reasonable to feel Ole is still learning and developing as a manager and should be afforded this season to continue to do so. I think he has improved as a manager to this point but he does need to deliver silverware this season.

Well yeah, my follow up post said he deserves the season. I'm fairly confident we'll have a good season under him, but if we don't, it's time for a change.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I have to be honest, I wasn't sure at all about Tuchel, but he's done an unbelievable job since he took over at Chelsea. With literally the same squad as Lampard, he went and won the Champions League. It's evident from Chelsea's opening games this season, that he has well and truly stamped his identity on the team. It's funny, Jorgingo all of a sudden is rated on here when he was utterly derided under Lampard. It just shows what the really top managers are capable of doing. Tuchel has literally signed Lukaku and totally transformed the shit-show football from the Lampard era.

Now, the wheels may well fall off the wagon, who knows? But if Chelsea have a far superior season to us after appointing a perceived 'top manager', then it's pretty clear what the common denominator is holding us back, and it's not the squad. I still feel we'll have a good season and be there or thereabouts, but the Ole obsessives are already frying my brain with their inane excuses.

He should have this season, barring a total shit show and a top appointment becoming available. But contingency plans should be in place for next summer if he fails to challenge for top honors, and improve our football. By the end of the season, he'll have had 3.5 years and hundreds of millions of investment, so no more excuses. If we don't seriously challenge, he has to go and no amount of mental gymnastics will change that.

I agree with this. I also think if we’re off the pace by Christmas then we should be actively talking to potential replacements. I think that but I have very little faith in the powers that be to be so proactive.

 

[Bebestation]

If players are signed in those three positions another reason/excuse for not challenging would be found. Probably the keepers. There's no such thing as a complete squad

The thing is the fans were absolutely crying for a manager like Jose to the point that alot of people were happy during his appointment.

He came and built nothing and won nothing of importance.

We could do exactly the same midway through Ole's build and the next manager would benefit from the squad that Ole has left compared to what Ole got.

So why not let it continue one more season?

I mean look at the Haaland thread? Everyone is absolutely crying to sign him (never mind players like Sancho and Varane) - what makes you think this random next manager has the ability to bring Haaland here compared to Ole?

Let him finish the rebuild and if he doesn't win the title with a signing like Haaland then it's going to have some obvious consequences.


We can't be complaining about McFred, the need for a new version of Matic, the need to sell Martial, how our best striker is arguably 34 years old, the inability to fit Pogba in to the first 11 properly, how De Gea doesn't come off his line for crosses and yet has been dropped for Henderson, AWB needing a more attacking competition like Trippier -etc and then be disappointed for not winning the tile.

It's excuses to some - the people that don't want to have patience towards a rebuild and wants to chase after a quick success. On the other side some would rather have Ole finish answering those questions because he has answered quite some well enough. He can build a boat even if he can't sail it, I'd let him finish building the boat before I do anything.

As I say not winning a title with this team + a haaland and a top class CDM will have its consequences.

 

[Robbie Boy]

I always felt Chelsea started last season with an amazing squad. And a terrible manager. They spent a shit-load of money on some of the most exciting attacking footballers around. Their biggest problem was Fwank.

Although I do agree that the massive improvement when he left is a great example of the impact of a top manager. We’ve only oncd seen that sort of managerial impact at United since Fergie retired and that was in Ole’s opening run of games.

But it’s hard not to worry that was down to shaking off Mourinho’s unique brand of toxic negativity and Ole bringing some much-needed positivity more than any kind of nuts and bolts overhaul of what we do on the pitch. Hence it was very short-lived.

Of course, it could all go tits up at Chelsea soon enough. Maybe getting rid of Frank was the only change they needed. Time will tell. That does look unlikely though.

I agree that Chelsea have a better squad than was made out on here - the hatred of Chelsea clouds rational judgement. But I don't think their squad is all that, and when both teams field their first elevens, I feel we edge it but that's totally open to interpretation.

But yes, it just shows how their fortunes have massively changed since appointing Tuchel. As you said, it might not be sustainable in the long run, and because it's Chelsea, Tuchel likely won't last more than 3 seasons or so. But I imagine in that time, he'll win a few trophies.

Listen, Ole has done a good enough job in building back up a very good young squad. Our recruitment in youth players has also been fantastic in recent years. But am I convinced by him? Not entirely. What's even more baffling is when I see some posters saying he's doing a "great job" - I mean come on, drop the agendas. If he were doing a great job, the fanbase would unanimously be praising him. The fact the fan base is so divided after 2.5 years, says it all. And it's not because of cry babies, fannies, plastics, unintelligent folk, or whatever other demeaning phrases the 'in' crowd use to belittle and shut down any critique.

The fact of the matter is, he's here 3.5 years at the end of the season and huge progress is fairly expected. If he fails to deliver, he simply has to go. Three years was the benchmark his biggest fans have set out, so now this is his time to deliver as he's here 3 years in December. Unfortunately, I see some of these fans are shifting the goalposts once again. Sigh.

 

[OleBoiii]

but the Ole obsessives are already frying my brain with their inane excuses.

What insane excuses? You've accused me of being a rabid 'Ole in' poster on more than one occasion, so I'm gonna assume that I fall under the same category.

A couple of pointers so you don't strawman me:

Concerning Chelsea:
I thought that Chelsea had a good team and that Lampard severely underperformed with it. I maintained that they were not much worse than us on paper, even before Tuchel's arrival. Now they have a better coach, Lukaku in the form of his life, and their 250 million summer transfers have had a full season to settle. Anyone claiming that we should do better than Chelsea are being disingenuous. We are roughly the same level, imo.

Concerning minor trophies:
No matter the manager, I have always maintained that I don't care about minor trophies(i.e. any trophy that isn't the PL or CL trophy). Therefore, I don't view lack of FA cups etc as a valid argument against the manager. At best, they serve as a nice bonus and a morale boost. At worst, they are a distraction from the bigger picture(PL and CL results). This is not a new excuse for Ole. And it will not be a new excuse for whoever may come next.

Concerning minium demands:
Even if Ole is doing a lot of good things, I don't think he should be above having minimum demands. His predecessors needed to get CL football to survive. The same should be true for Ole. I also agree that at one point just getting CL football is no longer enough, and we may already have reached that point. But I also think it's very hard to draw a clear line, as context always matter. What if we finish 4th with 80 points and reach a CL final?

It's not a matter of making excuses. It's a matter of being reasonable. As long as we keep moving in the right direction and don't finish below teams that we are better than, then I don't think it's right to sack the manager. At the same time, there is a limit to how slowly we should be allowed to move forwards. I do expect us to explode onto the scene this season or the next.

I can accept it not happening this season as I think Ole's rebuild will peak next season. And if Ole's rebuild peak isn't good enough to land us a major trophy, then perhaps he is not right man for the job. He's proven to be a good builder of teams, but he evidently lack the final killer instinct to capitalise on it then.

 

[Robbie Boy]

What insane excuses? You've accused me of being a rabid 'Ole in' poster on more than one occasion, so I'm gonna assume that I fall under the same category.

A couple of pointers so you don't strawman me:

Concerning Chelsea:
I thought that Chelsea had a good team and that Lampard severely underperformed with it. I maintained that they were not much worse than us on paper, even before Tuchel's arrival. Now they have a better coach, Lukaku in the form of his life, and their 250 million summer transfers have had a full season to settle. Anyone claiming that we should do better than Chelsea are being disingenuous. We are roughly the same level, imo.

Concerning minor trophies:
No matter the manager, I have always maintained that I don't care about minor trophies(i.e. any trophy that isn't the PL or CL trophy). Therefore, I don't view lack of FA cups etc as a valid argument against the manager. At best, they serve as a nice bonus and a morale boost. At worst, they are a distraction from the bigger picture(PL and CL results). This is not a new excuse for Ole. And it will not be a new excuse for whoever may come next.

Concerning minium demands:
Even if Ole is doing a lot of good things, I don't think he should be above having minimum demands. His predecessors needed to get CL football to survive. The same should be true for Ole. I also agree that at one point just getting CL football is no longer enough, and we may already have reached that point. But I also think it's very hard to draw a clear line, as context always matter. What if we finish 4th with 80 points and reach a CL final?

It's not a matter of making excuses. It's a matter of being reasonable. As long as we keep moving in the right direction and don't finish below teams that we are better than, then I don't think it's right to sack the manager. At the same time, there is a limit to how slowly we should be allowed to move. I do expect us to explode onto the scene this season or the next.

I can accept it not happening this season as I think Ole's rebuild will peak next season. And if Ole's rebuild peak isn't good enough to land us a trophy, then perhaps he is not right man for the job. He's proven to be a good builder of teams, but he evidently lack the final killer instinct to capitalise on it.

"What excuses"? Proceeds to list a load of excuses. Sorry, but yeah, your nationality bias towards him makes me not be able to take you serious whatsoever. That thread you made after the EL Final, come on. I can only take you as serious as the fans that call him a "failed Cardiff manager" etc.

I'm sure you're fine outside Ole debates, but unfortunately, your ridiculously obsessive and biased when it comes to Ole.

 

[OleBoiii]

"What excuses"? Proceeds to list a load of excuses.

Which of the points I made are excuses for Ole specifically? I didn't suddenly start to rate Chelsea. I didn't suddenly stop caring about minor trophies. I didn't suddenly move any goalposts concerning minimum demands.

What about the things I wrote in the post above are unreasonable in your opinion? You pride yourself with being firmly in the middle, but I feel that what I wrote above are fairly reasonable views(which I would offer any manager. Even the ones I personally don't like, like Mourinho for instance).

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Which of the points I made are excuses for Ole specifically? I didn't suddenly start to rate Chelsea. I didn't suddenly stop caring about minor trophies. I didn't suddenly move any goalposts concerning minimum demands.

What about the things I wrote in the post above are unreasonable in your opinion? You pride yourself with being firmly in the middle, but I feel that what I wrote above are fairly reasonable views(which I would offer any manager. Even the ones I personally don't like, like Mourinho for instance).

I'm curious, what is your opinion on Ole not being able to win us the Europa League final, a trophy that WAS a priority for the club last season?

 

[Blood Mage]

I'll take a world class tactician/motivator over a world class squad builder. Ole can make as many impressive signings as he likes, we won't reap the benefits if he can't get better at preparing and managing games.

 

[Robbie Boy]

Which of the points I made are excuses for Ole? I didn't suddenly start to rate Chelsea. I didn't suddenly stop caring about minor trophies. I didn't suddenly move any goalposts concerning minimum demands.

What about the things I wrote in the post above are unreasonable in your opinion? You pride yourself with being firmly in the middle, but I feel that what I wrote above are fairly reasonable views(which I would offer any manager. Even the ones I personally don't like, like Mourinho for instance).

I don't pride myself on anything - I just don't have to be hell bent on my stance regarding him. Just because a-few less desirable posters have an issue with me, doesn't mean they aren't talking utter shite.

Well, it has been said on here for the longest time - by his biggest fans nonetheless - that we'll see a title challenge in his third season. But wait, now you're saying the manager of Manchester United shouldn't have minimum expectations? I mean, seriously? Yes, his predecessors had a minimum expectation of top four at the time. None lasted as long as Ole or spent as much, so realistically they all would have been expected to challenge for the title had they been afforded the same time and backing. Expectations increse annually at top clubs believe it or not. The fact you even think this is a contentious point says it all.

Listen, I get it, if Keane was managing us, nationality bias would totally cloud my judgement too. Having an Irishman in charge would be a dream for me. But hey, unfortunately it clouds your ability to rationally debate about Ole, and be objective.

 

[OleBoiii]

I'm curious, what is your opinion on Ole not being able to win us the Europa League final, a trophy that WAS a priority for the club last season?

I was disappointed of course. It's a stain on Ole's resume as a United manager. Possibly his biggest stain.

At the same time, I think people made too much out of it. We played a La Liga team with a good cup manager in charge and they parked the bus on top of this. You see this stuff every season. A superior team fails to break down a weaker team who defends heroically. The difference is that this was in a cup, rather than in a league. Over the course of 38 games these things tend to even out, but in a cup it's over and out. That is why it's not uncommon for a team that's not considered the favorites to win the cup. It happens in the CL (I'd argue 4 times in the last 18 years) and it happens in the Euros(Greece 2004, Portugal 2016 and arguably Italy 2021).

I personally consider the EL to be a minor trophy, so the loss was easy for me to shake off after the initial banter from friends.

 

[Nou_Camp99]

I think to make things plain and simple. We ain’t winning diddle squat with this manager as he doesn’t have a clue how to in-game manage. Some would say that’s down to his level of managerial ability. “Some would say”

No offence but you didn't think we'd be second last season did you? You were bitching and crying about him then. And we finished 2nd in the toughest league in world football. So he can't be that bad can he?

Meanwhile Caf favourite Poch couldn't even take PSG to the title in France against little old Lille. Funny game footy isn't it?

 

[OleBoiii]

Well, it has been said on here for the longest time - by his biggest fans nonetheless - that we'll see a title challenge in his third season.

Well, this is precisely why I refuse to commit to moronic arbitrary demands far into the future that don't take context into consideration!

I have always said that I demand a title challenge when he has a team that's comparable to the best team in the league. I'm not sure if we are there yet, though if both Varane and Sancho hit the ground running we might be. I will say this though: if City gets Kane, the season is over.

But wait, now you're saying the manager of Manchester United shouldn't have minimum expectations? I mean, seriously?

See, this is a strawman. I'm not opposed to minimum expectations. I am however opposed to contextless minimum expectations that can't shift under any circumstances. At the same time: some minimum demands must be in place(CL football, for instance). But a title challenge when there are superior teams present? No.

 

[Desert Eagle]

I was disappointed of course. It's a stain on Ole's resume as a United manager. Possibly his biggest stain.
...

Just to be clear you'd be ok with top 4 and no (major) trophies this year because you expect Ole to peak next year correct?

 

[DomesticTadpole]

I was disappointed of course. It's a stain on Ole's resume as a United manager. Possibly his biggest stain.

At the same time, I think people made too much out of it. We played a La Liga team with a good cup manager in charge and they parked the bus on top of this. You see this stuff every season. A superior team fails to break down a weaker team who defends heroically. The difference is that this was in a cup, rather than in a league. Over the course of 38 games these things tend to even out, but in a cup it's over and out. That is why it's not uncommon for a team that's not considered the favorites to win the cup. It happens in the CL (I'd argue 4 times in the last 18 years) and it happens in the Euros(Greece 2004, Portugal 2016 and arguably Italy 2021).

I personally consider the EL to be a minor trophy, so the loss was easy for me to shake off after the initial banter from friends.

So you are fine for him to be earning a fortune to basically build a squad, but cannot actually get them to win anything. If he cannot win the EL he will not win the PL or CL, that takes coaching. All he is doing is lining the owners pockets with CL money.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Well, this is precisely why I refuse to commit to moronic arbitrary demands far into the future that don't take context into consideration!

I have always said that I demand a title challenge when he has a team that's comparable to the best team in the league. I'm not sure if we are there yet, though if both Varane and Sancho hit the ground running we might be. I will say this though: if City gets Kane, the season is over.

What about Liverpool and Chelsea? Should falling behind both of them in the league be deemed an obvious failure?

If I was a betting man I’d have us finishing fourth. And I would say that’s not good enough, considering the resources made available in recent years.

 

[Giggsy13]

Ole isn't a championship winning manager unfortunately. I am happy that he has left the squad in a much better position than when he found it, and established us as a top 4 team in the country again. But he has far too many flaws to take us that extra step and win the league.

100%. I don’t hate Ole but he might simply have reached his ceiling. We’ve seen enough over the last 2.5 seasons that in big moments he makes odd and confusing decisions, while also being too late to adapt to situations. Villarreal was a prime example. If we don’t see a genuine title challenge this season, he needs to go.

 

[OleBoiii]

Just to be clear you'd be ok with top 4 and no (major) trophies this year because you expect Ole to peak next year correct?

It depends.

Was our football worse than last year? How bad did we get hit with injuries? Did we do well in Europe? How many points behind 1st place are we?

I can see multiple scenarios where we get CL football and I still want Ole out.