Is Fred the worst regular starter for United in living memory?

[devilish]

Fred lacks the overall quality to be our B2B player and he lacks the positioning, the brains and the discipline to be our DM. If he was blonde and he was Welsh then he'd be confused with Robbie Savage. Unfortunately he's Brazilian and many still believe that Brazil is still a football giant as it was during the Ronaldinho, Kaka and Rivaldo era.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Fred against Wolves:

89% passing accuracy (the highest of any midfielder on either side)
86 touches (more than any player in the Wolves side)
73 passes
2 successful tackles
2 successful interceptions
1 clearance

World class on paper as usual.

This is why I don't trust stats. He was absolutely rubbish.

We went from Robson, to Ince and Keane, then to Scholes and and Carrick. Now we've got this guy as our undisputed centre midfield mainstay. Shambles.

2 tackles and 2 interceptions are rubbish to be fair. The stats sums it up.

 

[Wolfbot]

I think a lot of people have echoed my sentiments already, Fred has a couple of bad games and is absolutely destroyed by half this board when often he's actually been one of the better performers on the park for us so the original post is utter nonsense for a start.

I've noticed that he makes more mistakes against teams that press us hard ie Southampton and Wolves so it's up to the manager to recognise that and adapt accordingly in my opinion (unfortunately the alternative choice in Matic is a little better on the ball but lacks speed so often looks bad when heavily pressed).

Ideally we want someone with legs and ball playing ability under heavy pressure but until then it's on the management team to figure out something else that works against these teams.

 

[cyril C]

Agree Fred makes some real feck ups but in fairness, don't believe he ever recovered in the fans eyes from his first season. That said, he doesn't help himself at times. Such a confidence player and seems to take a half before he can get his head right. I like Fred but I'm a sucker for a underdog, he'll be upgraded but there are so many question marks about Pogs and Matic future, nothing will be done until then. Fred is a stop gap like Lindelof until the right players become available

Don't think it is fair to state he never recovered in the fan eyes. Fred works his socks off alright, makes contribution kind of unsung hero. What is unforgivable, are those stupid mis-pass / unforced error, that could have cause goals. If people see Pogba's sloppiness in his own half as a problem, Fred is even worse. He simply pass the ball straight to opponent, without under pressure. Bruno's ball might be intercepted, but those are forward pass, and potential damage is limited. Fred's gift pass is 1 of the worse kind.

 

[OleBoiii]

Embarrassing thread.

 

[Longshanks]

Pogba was very good creative-wise in the second half. Fred didn’t do anything right last night, losing pretty much every duel, struggling to pass accurately even to the nearest partner etc.

He wasn't, what exactly did pogba do that was very good creative wise? One good ball over the top to bruno is now very good creative-wise!?.

Pogba and freds performance was about the same yesterday, really poor first 20 minutes very average afterwards.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Fred against Wolves:

89% passing accuracy (the highest of any midfielder on either side)
86 touches (more than any player in the Wolves side)
73 passes
2 successful tackles
2 successful interceptions
1 clearance

World class on paper as usual.

Thos stats reflect exactly what we saw (what I saw anyway). Started extremely badly - with some awful early brain farts - then went on to have a solid performance. As I said in another thread, people just see what they want to see with Fred.

 

[Tincanalley]

He was a decent player for us, covered multiple roles with little fuss and even filled in very well at CB in a physical PL.

Stop being sensible in a shit thread. You’ll ruin everything

 

[SSSSnake]

Fred seems to be a bit of a scape goat. Very harsh thread. Do we need better in midfield? Yes we do. Should we we blame yesterday performance all on Fred? Hell no. He just needs a suitable partner and Pogba should be further up the pitch.

 

[united_99]

He is really not good enough as a starter but he isn’t the worst - definitely not.
And what the hell is Blind doing on that list??

 

[pratyush_utd]

Fred had a bad start but this thread is bit over the top. If you play with 4 attacker who don't track back and partner him with another attack minded CM, our midfield will always get overrun.

 

[Kag]

Ashley Young was masquerading as a United footballer for nigh on a decade, so no.

Fred isn’t good enough, though.

 

[Random Task]

Blind was a halfway decent player for us during his time here, not world-class by any stretch but not remotely close to the worst regular starter in recent memory.

It wasn't that long ago that Fred was our best CM by a distance, with some suggesting he was one of the best in the league. Now he's gone to shite again. He needs replacing asap.

 

[Drainy]

It was fecking embarrassing watching Pogba having to point to where Fred needs to be stood to receive the ball out of the back. Fred looking over his shoulder constantly to Pogba for advice. And people blame Pogba for the midfield not functioning.

How can we build out of the back with such a player who doesn't know how to position himself and when he does get the ball can't be relied on to be secure in his touch or accurate in the pass?

 

[Drizzle]

This is a silly thread. There have been times where Fred has been one of our better players. And better than McTominay for periods too.

Is he good enough to be in our starting XI? No. Is he a bad player? Absolutely not.

 

[Drainy]

This is a silly thread. There have been times where Fred has been one of our better players. And better than McTominay for periods too.

Is he good enough to be in our starting XI? No. Is he a bad player? Absolutely not.

if you let him run around like a red setter bounding after a tennis ball and the opposition aren't savvy enough he can impact games yes, but when the opposition are with it he's fecking clueless.

 

[RUCK4444]

This is a silly thread. There have been times where Fred has been one of our better players. And better than McTominay for periods too.

Is he good enough to be in our starting XI? No. Is he a bad player? Absolutely not.

This. Totally agree, especially on the McTominay point.

He has been a very important player at certain periods and when in form was no doubt one of the first names on the team sheet.

He was poor first half yesterday though for sure, but the whole team was.

That said, and this isn’t Fred’s fault, I still want the club to get a proper DM which Fred is not.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Personally think he’s very harshly treated in some respects. He’s not an out an out DM and that’s how he was expected to play versus Wolves.

He’s also an untidy looking footballer when he runs and tackles which make people judge his ability. He’s there to recover the ball, not play the ball forward.

When him and McTominay play together they are a solid defensive partnership. It should have already been identified by management we need a proper DM for Bruno and Pogba to work in midfield. They haven’t and that’s exactly why we are in situation now.

 

[Tribec]

So many worse players than Fred over the years, many who were regular starters as well. The fact that Fred played his way into the Brazil team last year and played in all but one of the recent Copa America suggests he isn't as bad as being made out in here. Fred's biggest problem is like many a player, he has at least one brain fart moment per game and it tends to lead to situations as it did yesterday. Some our best players were prone to that at points in the career and we tend to ignore them.

I'd suggest one of the reasons we seem to pass over them, is that we've gone on to win things and thus the silly slips haven't cost us in the long run. Were we to win the title this season, will we be talking about Fred's brain fart moment yesterday next summer or the games/goals that won us the title? Fred hasn't been at his best this season for what ever reason, but we've not got beat yet, he's played his part in the away record that we've just broken and so we move on to the Newcastle game where by I suspect all the talk will be about a certain returning hero's performance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It was fecking embarrassing watching Pogba having to point to where Fred needs to be stood to receive the ball out of the back. Fred looking over his shoulder constantly to Pogba for advice. And people blame Pogba for the midfield not functioning.

How can we build out of the back with such a player who doesn't know how to position himself and when he does get the ball can't be relied on to be secure in his touch or accurate in the pass?

Literally the most accurate passing of any midfielder on the pitch yesterday. From either team. And by quite a margin.

 

[Drainy]

Literally the most accurate passing of any midfielder on the pitch yesterday. From either team. And by quite a margin.

Because he was being babysat through the game.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Because he was being babysat through the game.

Absolute horseshit. How does “being babysat” make a player pass the ball more accurately?

 

[arnie_ni]

He can't play as a holding mf. It's not his game and it's criminal if ole continues its all season.

He needs a free role with someone behind him so he can press and chase and win the ball high.

 

[Drainy]

Absolute horseshit. How does “being babysat” make a player pass the ball more accurately?

receive in deeper positions, playing more simple passes.

Watch the game. Pogba is literally telling him where to stand and where to pass like was playing with a child.

It was honestly pathetic, Fred looking over his shoulder to Pogba for advice.

 

[dove]

He is not good enough but far from worst. I don't know what can we expect from him when he was basically a single midfielder in the first half yesterday. Tactical setup was all wrong and even if we had a beast of a midfielder, he would have struggled too.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

receive in deeper positions, playing more simple passes.

Watch the game. Pogba is literally telling him where to stand and where to pass like was playing with a child.

It was honestly pathetic, Fred looking over his shoulder to Pogba for advice.

I watched the game. Fred played in central midfield. A position where nobody, at any level, can a receive a ball and ask another player where to pass it before releasing the ball. Never mind in a PL match where the opposition has had one of the most intense high presses of any team in the league so far this season.

91% of Fred’s passes found their target. This has nothing to do with any other player. If you think Pogba was somehow operating Fred like a ventriloquist dummy you’re out of your fecking mind.

 

[MIC_FIN]

Buttner and Obertan. Even Welbeck had me more frustrated than Fred.

 

[Deery]

I’ve always been a defender of Fred but yesterday showed up his weaknesses horribly. It’s the first time I’ve actually seen that he just not good enough to play without McTominay beside him. The fact Varane had to push into midfield at a point yesterday to dictate play was embarrassing he’s a much better passer that Fred and the sheer weakness to deal with Wolves attackers.

 

[jesperjaap]

Fred has at no point been one of our better players like some point out, he just improved from an awful start. He is also not one of our worst ever startes either that is going overboard.
The whole balance of our midfield has been wrong for some time now. We havent found the right combination of players and there hasnt been good balance around them. There have been cocnerns over the defence behind them and the width in front of them. You could say this has been addressed with the signings whic it has, but the movement of the side yesterday just showed it is deeper than that.
It is difficult at the moment fo rany midfielder in this current side I feel, all are struggling...........BUT we do need an intelligent player that is good all round to play there with a lot of energy as well.....and for me that certainly isnt Fred, Pogba, Matic. McTominay can do a job but I dont think is intelligent enough, the only player that is.....is VDB. Bit like Blind that someone mentioned though, for me,,,,,he isnt actually all that good though, just does everything decently with a good football brain and technique. We desperately need an addition there before the window closes in my opinion. As mentioned tactically andmovement wise need addressing as still doesnt solve, but until we have the RIGHT player there which Fred isnt, we have no hope of winning titles as is a lack of quality both player wise and tactically

 

[Pickle85]

Literally the most accurate passing of any midfielder on the pitch yesterday. From either team. And by quite a margin.

Stats don't tell the whole story here though. He wasn't as loose with the ball as he has been, sure, but he simply wasn't up to the task physically. Easily shrugged off/beaten to the ball, positionally suspect and all round poor. This thread is obviously way OTT but we need better, urgently.

 

[Simbo]

He had to carry the entire team on his shoulders most of yestedray as the rest of the team were so utterly, utterly useless. He buckled under the weight a few times but he's among on the last on the list I'd critisize.

 

[rcoobc]

Depay, Fred or Januzaj

Januzaj was one of our best players for a short period

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Stats don't tell the whole story here though. He wasn't as loose with the ball as he has been, sure, but he simply wasn't up to the task physically. Easily shrugged off/beaten to the ball, positionally suspect and all round poor. This thread is obviously way OTT but we need better, urgently.

Fred has two main flaws. One is periods of games (usually opening periods!) where his passing is completely off. This flaw was not in evidence yesterday. The other flaw is being dribbled past too easily. This is a long-standing weakness of his, so inevitably got exposed when he was up against the player in the league who has the best stats for dribbling past people. It also has to be said that when Traore did make those surges forward, Fred was consistently the player making most of an effort to get back and help Shaw out.

 

[grahamo]

Within the first 5 mins v wolves Fred gave the ball away 3 times. Enough said

 

[Eugenius]

His passing is awful, but his work rate is immense. In games where we have less of the ball, he's typically one of our best players.

 

[fergieisold]

Despite the poor start he was good yesterday. Basically playing CM alone.

 

[Pickle85]

Fred has two main flaws. One is periods of games (usually opening periods!) where his passing is completely off. This flaw was not in evidence yesterday. The other flaw is being dribbled past too easily. This is a long-standing weakness of his, so inevitably got exposed when he was up against the player in the league who has the best stats for dribbling past people.

Agree with this. I also don't think he's the smartest positionally, though granted he was given an impossible job being buddied with Pogba yesterday and expected to do the work of two. That said, he always has a touch of the headless chicken about him to me. Runs his heart out but smarter players could do more with less effort. I was also pretty surprised at how lightweight he looks. He's never been the strongest but he loses physical battles with alarming regularity.

 

[devilish]

Fred is a b2b player. He is very average in his role but that's his position. He usually struggle with McT alongside him let alone Pogba who is an attacking minded player. So what we need is to rethink CM altogether. We need players like Bissouma, Zakaria and Neves to form the base alongside McT which in turn would allow the likes of Sancho, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and Ronaldo to focus on their game. Fred, Pogba and Matic aren't the answer to that.

 

[youmeletsfly]

If you have two functional eyes and know even a tiny bit about football, you can obviously see how well Wolves adapted to him being our only defensive midfielder.
Traore played a bit more inside to exploit the space between Fred and Shaw, considering Fred always drifted towards Pogba, knowing his defensive struggles.

 

[Deery]

Fred is a b2b player. He is very average in his role but that's his position. He usually struggle with McT alongside him let alone Pogba who is an attacking minded player. So what we need is to rethink CM altogether. We need players like Bissouma, Zakaria and Neves to form the base alongside McT which in turn would allow the likes of Sancho, Bruno, Rashford, Greenwood and Ronaldo to focus on their game. Fred, Pogba and Matic aren't the answer to that.

This game yesterday actually changed my mind I think if we want to go in a new direction we need a midfielder more akin to Jorginho or Verratti who can keep possession and dictate play. We’re missing out on this kind of midfielder badly..