The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[rimaldo]

it’s all on hearn for me. he should have been shouting at joshua to windmill his arms and take full advantage of his greater reach.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

How many times has Wilder been knocked down? He doesn’t get rocked by jabs. AJ is like a heavyweight Khan but not as bad.

How many times did he get knocked down by a weak punching Fury in one fight? And rocked by Ortiz? And he’s been rocked by absolute bums.
I think it’s pretty clear Wilder will see a lot of canvas if he stops fighting bums. I’m fairly certain Whyte would knock him clean out.

 

[Redlambs]

Anything come out post fight about how Joshua is doing? He didnt look in a good way after the bell.

There's some pics that came out straight after the fight of the both of them in the dressing room together and AJ looks fine, just really gutted.

 

[DixieDean]

No problem. Glad everyone can see this now, the AJ love in on here the last few years was nauseous. Especially when there was a true top class, British heavyweight under everyone's noses.

He hardly fought for years. You can't blame people.

 

[Bepi]

It is pretty lame to bash Joshua today, after a truly successful career and when he’s clearly into his deepest hole as a professional, but he neither was a wonderfully gifted boxeur like Lennox Lewis nor a ring beast like Frank Bruno.

And he was always super protected, yes, even before turning a pro… if just reading from this same thread, many posters fearing a tailored scorecard, like the one he got in the London 2012 Olympics final?

The truly good from Joshua is his mental strength and he will prepare accordingly for the rematch, which I have no doubt he is going to win… try bulking up again and hitting the sh*t out of a smaller opponent, like a bully. This would also set up him nicely for the long awaited showdown against madman Fury in late 2022 imho.

 

[Dan_F]

No problem. Glad everyone can see this now, the AJ love in on here the last few years was nauseous. Especially when there was a true top class, British heavyweight under everyone's noses.

I find supporting a bigoted, homophobic, sexist drugs cheat more nauseous if I’m being honest, but each to their own. Not everyone is going to blindly support Fury because he’s British.

 

[The Cat]

Oh sorry mate, one too many I didn't get that.

Hatton was terrible and 100% lost, but the ref gave it to him anyway. Absolute joke really and ultimately I don't think it does him any favours.

Cheers mate

 

[Paxi]

Two of those cards were waaay too lopsided imo. I had it 114-114 personally. 115-113 for either would have been fine, but 117-112??? How?

Usyk is small and he never had exceptional KO power in the first place, otherwise he'd dominate the division. Technically he's quite obviously the best HW around right now with Fury

Think AJ can beat him in a rematch, but he needs to fight more behind the jab and be more aggressive, come forward more, force Usyk to take more risks. And put in more work to the body. Can't be the one in survival mode in the 12th round...

Joshua got outclassed so 115-113 for Joshua would have been daylight robbery. I mean even the British judge scored the fight for Usyk. I think the consensus this morning from the majority of commentators that Usyk’s victory was comprehensive and not particularly surprising seeing as we all knew how good he was.

 

[lsd]

Tough fight for AJ ... was not confident at all because Usyk on paper is exactly what should be his kryptonite - fast moving, bundles of stamina and ring craft. There was a gulf in class.


Wilder for me has a much better chin than AJ and that alone puts him in a higher category as he is more prepared to get hurt to let that bomb detonate whereas AJ has scars in that respect even though he is superior technically.

It's been obvious Joshua has been protected from big hitters because his chin is so weak and he cannot react properly to getting hit. He tends to freeze up like Bruno did and find it too hard to survive.

However as you say it means he often gets lighter fighters who inevitably have quicker hand speed and that gives him problems too as he is often too stiff and robotic.

He has done extremely well to achieve what he had and his background team take a lot of credit for that.

I don't really see how he can improve and rectify his faults though.

 

[Port Vale Devil]

Hearn shouldn’t have spunked his ‘get out of jail card’ on Hatton.

 

[Paxi]

Hearn shouldn’t have spunked his ‘get out of jail card’ on Hatton.

Think he would have wanted to avoid Usyk in the first place but of course it was mandatory. Ah well.

 

[Stookie]

I’ll admit I called this one wrong. I thought Joshua would use his size advantage and power to have a go and blow him away. How wrong. He seemed gun shy. Even when behind he still didn’t unload. Credit to Usyk, what a fighter. I’m not sure Joshua wins the rematch. There’s something about Joshua I can’t put my finger on- is he too nice?

 

[VorZakone]

I'm curious, what are the prime years of boxers? For football it'd be 26-30 I reckon. You'll always have footballers excelling in their 30s as well but I think on average it's 26-30.

The reason I ask is because Usyk is 34, do you expect him to compete for a long time in the heavyweight division or is he already getting 'old' in boxing age?

 

[Castia]

Two of those cards were waaay too lopsided imo. I had it 114-114 personally. 115-113 for either would have been fine, but 117-112??? How?

Usyk is small and he never had exceptional KO power in the first place, otherwise he'd dominate the division. Technically he's quite obviously the best HW around right now with Fury

Think AJ can beat him in a rematch, but he needs to fight more behind the jab and be more aggressive, come forward more, force Usyk to take more risks. And put in more work to the body. Can't be the one in survival mode in the 12th round...

You had that down as a draw??

He was given a lesson in boxing and got outclassed for the vast majority of the fight, he was literally dancing circles around Joshua.

Usyk was so convincing I bet Joshua is having second thoughts on a rematch he was completely outclassed and Usyk could have probably gone another 3 rounds. 2 more minutes and Joshua was either getting KO’d or the ref was stepping in.

 

[Revan]

Two of those cards were waaay too lopsided imo. I had it 114-114 personally. 115-113 for either would have been fine, but 117-112??? How?

Usyk is small and he never had exceptional KO power in the first place, otherwise he'd dominate the division. Technically he's quite obviously the best HW around right now with Fury

Think AJ can beat him in a rematch, but he needs to fight more behind the jab and be more aggressive, come forward more, force Usyk to take more risks. And put in more work to the body. Can't be the one in survival mode in the 12th round...

Actually had it 116-111.

Usyk clearly won the first 3 rounds. Joshua then won the next 3. Usyk won the seventh, Joshua won the eighth. Usyk won the last 4, with the 12th round being 10-8.

You could argue that the last round was 10-9 but it was a total battering (and you don’t need a knock down to win 10-8). Someone might argue that Joshua won the tenth round too (I heavily disagree), but I do not see how this can be anything closer than 115-113 for Usyk. And even that is being massively generous.

Joshua should have talked with Canelo on how to buy the judges (see GGG fights), but to be fair, there the matches were closer (although GGG should have won both).

 

[MIC_FIN]

Absolute farce of a fight. I don't know what was said to AJ. But not once did he utilise his biggest weapon. His uppercut. He didn't even chase Usyk down. He has basically set up another big money payday rematch. All bollocks. AJ could, and should have walked through an inferior fighter last night. No excuses. Weight/height/reach/power advantage.

Just a glorified Frank Bruno.

 

[Revan]

Absolute farce of a fight. I don't know what was said to AJ. But not once did he utilise his biggest weapon. His uppercut. He didn't even chase Usyk down. He has basically set up another big money payday rematch. All bollocks. AJ could, and should have walked through an inferior fighter last night. No excuses. Weight/height/reach/power advantage.

Just a glorified Frank Bruno.

Usyk is not the inferior fighter. He is the best technical heavyweight since God knows when. He defeats everyone in the division except Fury.

Let’s face it, all heavyweights except Fury (good technical skills), Usyk (awesome technical kills) and Povetnik (way past it) are donkeys with massive punching powers. But if you cannot hit the opponent, the power is all for nothing.

 

[Balljy]

Fury versus Usyk would be interesting, but a really boring fight to watch.

I'm not convinced that Fury is massively inferior to Usyk in terms of boxing skills. Fury is harder to hit and has that way of just making every punch miss without actually moving too much whereas Usyk is a better mover off his feet and can be more attacking. It would be intriguing, but boring and Fury would come out on top.

 

[MIC_FIN]

Usyk is not the inferior fighter. He is the best technical heavyweight since God knows when. He defeats everyone in the division except Fury.

Let’s face it, all heavyweights except Fury (good technical skills), Usyk (awesome technical kills) and Povetnik (way past it) are donkeys with massive punching powers. But if you cannot hit the opponent, the power is all for nothing.

AJ could and did hit Usyk though. But not once did he utilise his uppercut. Let's be honest. Fury basically used his weight against Wilder. And AJ could have bullied the smaller guy last night. Chased him down, cornered him off and use his power. Seems he wasn't inclined to do either. Poor performance to be honest.

 

[Revan]

AJ could and did hit Usyk though. But not once did he utilise his uppercut. Let's be honest. Fury basically used his weight against Wilder. And AJ could have bullied the smaller guy last night. Chased him down, cornered him off and use his power. Seems he wasn't inclined to do either. Poor performance to be honest.

Usyk is very fast. Chasing him is difficult cause you get hit in the process. Sure, Usyk doesn’t have massive powers, but this is the heavyweight division (and Joshua has no chin at all).

Joshua’s best and only chance was an early KO. But that was an outside chances anyway. And out boxing Usyk was impossible.

 

[GeorgieBoy]

I'm curious, what are the prime years of boxers? For football it'd be 26-30 I reckon. You'll always have footballers excelling in their 30s as well but I think on average it's 26-30.

The reason I ask is because Usyk is 34, do you expect him to compete for a long time in the heavyweight division or is he already getting 'old' in boxing age?

Good question that.
The eyeball/fag packet maths leads me to think that most get to their prime early 30's. Think the relative later 'prime age' compared to other sports is probably due to the fact that boxers have to build a resume before fighting people of the highest level.

 

[MIC_FIN]

Usyk is very fast. Chasing him is difficult cause you get hit in the process. Sure, Usyk doesn’t have massive powers, but this is the heavyweight division (and Joshua has no chin at all).

Joshua’s best and only chance was an early KO. But that was an outside chances anyway. And out boxing Usyk was impossible.

Just read Dillian Whytes comments on BBC. Think he has it absolutely spot on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58694985

 

[Revan]

Just read Dillian Whytes comments on BBC. Think he has it absolutely spot on.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/boxing/58694985

Easy to talk. Usyk would embarrass White, something like 119-109 or so.

 

[Fortitude]

Easy to talk. Usyk would embarrass White, something like 119-109 or so.

No chance. He's a bad matchup for Usyk.

 

[MIC_FIN]

Easy to talk. Usyk would embarrass White, something like 119-109 or so.

Dude, he's a professional boxer ffs. And it's not just him saying it ether.

 

[lsd]

Easy to talk. Usyk would embarrass White, something like 119-109 or so.

Whyte is a joke no idea why people rated him. A fat slow plodding oaf basically

 

[Paxi]

Actually had it 116-111.

Usyk clearly won the first 3 rounds. Joshua then won the next 3. Usyk won the seventh, Joshua won the eighth. Usyk won the last 4, with the 12th round being 10-8.

You could argue that the last round was 10-9 but it was a total battering (and you don’t need a knock down to win 10-8). Someone might argue that Joshua won the tenth round too (I heavily disagree), but I do not see how this can be anything closer than 115-113 for Usyk. And even that is being massively generous.

Joshua should have talked with Canelo on how to buy the judges (see GGG fights), but to be fair, there the matches were closer (although GGG should have won both).

Yeah I’m still seething about GGG Canelo. Although I had the second fight as a draw. Anyway, we all know who the real champ is.

 

[Revan]

No chance. He's a bad matchup for Usyk.

In what way? He has no technique, is slow, and is fat. Sure, he can do a lucky punch and KO Usyk, but you can say that for any heavyweight.

Not long ago he got sent sleeping by a 100 years old Povetnik. Same Povetnik who is worse than Usyk in everything except having a bit more power.

 

[giorno]

Usyk won 1, 3, 7, 9, 11 and 12 clearly imo. Joshua won 5 and 6 clearly. 8 was also not quite that clear but imo his. 2, 4, and 10 were close and could go either way imo. Think AJ landed the more telling shots in those

 

[Bubz27]

When else has Joshua travelled abroad for fights at the top level? If I'm wrong then I'm wrong, but I only know of the Ruiz fight.

As for disagreeing, that's fair, it's a subjective thing, the biggest takeaway for me is that it's quite close with people making arguments both ways.

Both Ruiz fights were abroad weren't they?

 

[The Hilton]

Both Ruiz fights were abroad weren't they?

Yes good point, it was at a neutral venue rather than away from home, so I should say away rather than abroad.

 

[Fortitude]

In what way? He has no technique, is slow, and is fat. Sure, he can do a lucky punch and KO Usyk, but you can say that for any heavyweight.

Not long ago he got sent sleeping by a 100 years old Povetnik. Same Povetnik who is worse than Usyk in everything except having a bit more power.

Whyte, like Chisora will/would 100% make it a brawl and walk Usyk down for every minute of the fight absolutely disinterested in pretty tit-for-tat exchanges; he'll, maul, work the body, lean and clinch and use every ounce of the natural weight disparity between them. What he's saying to/about what Joshua should have done is exactly how Whyte would approach the fight.

Usyk doesn't have the power to keep him off; it'd be an ugly dog fight where Usyk doesn’t get to show his skills in the same way he could against Joshua. Even if Usyk won, Whyte is the kind of fighter who will shorten Usyk's remaining career years with damage inflicted. If you've seen Usyk vs Chisora, it's more of that, but worse as Whyte's a bully who likes pit-fighting and is more game than Chisora.

Whyte's a bad matchup for quite a few heavies. Usyk would be up for fighting him, I'm sure, but he's a honey badger of a fighter who a natural cruiser is best off avoiding entirely, imo.

 

[Gringo]

Easy to say he was gun shy when you're not in the ring with someone so unorthodox, feinting and moving like a Usyk and Fury.

Whyte is a easier fight for Usyk than Chisora. Chisora made Vitali look average. He's just a big pain in the bum

 

[T00lsh3d]

Thoughts on the event as a whole. Really impressed with Spurs stadium. We take the piss out of it on here but it’s a sweet stadium, it feels very snug despite the large capacity and ideal for boxing as you feel closer to the action than you do in many large stadiums.
The card was a bit disappointing bar Marku. Marku’s fight was decent, close & despite it being early there were a fair few Albanians in who made a bit of noise. I missed the Smith fight going for a piss so can’t comment though apparently the guy had a fit in the ring? (Haven’t watched it back).
Hatton’s ‘win’ was a disgraceful robbery….I assume it looked as bad on tv as it did live but there wasn’t a single soul there that thought he’d won. Ikolie crushed a can and nobody paid much attention.
Fair fecks to Usyk, I honestly reckon he could have gone another 5 rounds if he’d needed to. Being able to negate the height & reach advantage and outbox Joshua, thank god he was given it, after the Hatton fight I was worried about another robbery.
Boxing’s a weird crowd, 50% of it seemed to be coked up meatheads….despite that though it was a decent atmosphere and save a few fights in the stands and afterwards it was fairy decent, lots of applause for the result (which I didn’t expect)

 

[G-manc]

Joshua always say the right things in the build up but never seems to fight with the same confidence as he talks. I thought he was really poor last night. Upright, slow, couldn't get out the way of anything and happy to see the final bell rather than bite down on his gum shield and have a go even when he likely knew he was behind. He was the same when he lost to Ruiz - seemed happy that it was just over rather than disappointed he'd been relieved of his belts.

 

[Kazi]

Joshua always say the right things in the build up but never seems to fight with the same confidence as he talks. I thought he was really poor last night. Upright, slow, couldn't get out the way of anything and happy to see the final bell rather than bite down on his gum shield and have a go even when he likely knew he was behind. He was the same when he lost to Ruiz - seemed happy that it was just over rather than disappointed he'd been relieved of his belts.

He doesn’t want it that bad imo

 

[pocco]

I find supporting a bigoted, homophobic, sexist drugs cheat more nauseous if I’m being honest, but each to their own. Not everyone is going to blindly support Fury because he’s British.

True, but they could have the nous to recognise/admit that he's miles better than AJ.

 

[pocco]

I’ll admit I called this one wrong. I thought Joshua would use his size advantage and power to have a go and blow him away. How wrong. He seemed gun shy. Even when behind he still didn’t unload. Credit to Usyk, what a fighter. I’m not sure Joshua wins the rematch. There’s something about Joshua I can’t put my finger on- is he too nice?

I don't think it's that he's too nice, it's that he doesn't have the brains to work out a problem in front of him. I don't think he's a truly well schooled boxer that has learnt to think about what is happening the right way. He's underperformed and lost now quite a few times, since he's been pushed beyond beating up tired journeymen. He's faced fighters with different styles and too many times he's failed when his robotic combinations, list of head/foot movement etc isn't enough to just blast somebody out. If it gets tactical or a new style is presented, he can't work it out. Perhaps his coaches are partly to blame but I think he is lacking in the fundamentals of being able to box well. Listen to him talk compared to other fighters and he had no real insight into anything and that shows in his fights.

And then we've had clowns talking about him "showing he can box" more after his recent fights, just because he doesn't knock somebody out or fights behind a predictable jab. Laughable.

 

[LDUred]

I think Usyk's ability to take a punch or two is underestimated, probably because he's such a smooth operator in the ring and there are so many other strengths to concentrate on.

He gets caught and he got caught by AJ but it didn't seem to have much of an effect, if any.

Briedis, Gassiev, Bellew, and Chisora all brought it too him but he didn't ever look down in those fights. Briedis was probably the closest and of any opponent, the one who I thought might have won.

Still he was marked up pretty bad from AJ but he just absorbs what he has too. It is going to take one hell of a punch to even wobble him. Maybe AJ should have gone to the body more because that for me seemed to affect Usyk more than the head shots that connected.

I think Fury's reach might be a bit of a cheat code vs Usyk. He's tall, awkward, and nimble at 270 pounds plus.

 

[Kazi]

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMRnMnSsL/