Yeah...thats a bullshit.
What’s the dilemma with Donny’s playing time & Ole?
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He might be nominally a pass and move player, but for us this more often translated to a get the ball and treat it like a hot potato player. He seemed to ignore progressive options that were on only to quickly make an inconsequential pass.
Could be a confidence issue of course. But it didn't bode well for him in an attacking midfield position at a club like ours. I think his only chance is with the game ahead of him where he can bed into the team simply by ticking along. I don't see the dynamism or ability to make a difference in the final third even if his stats in Holland were good.
This guy was considered a massive flop and barely got gametime during his first nearly 2 years at the club.
Don't think we're going to rotate just for the sake of rotating, he is not someone who is competing with Fred or Scott in the lineup, he is going to have to play for Bruno or Pogba. There's no mystery in it, we paid 40m for a player who was young and exciting, also in case Pogba has to leave we will not need to immediately replace him with a new player, now whether or not he is good enough to be that player is a different story, but that's what he was signed for,
Having watched him last season he looked heavy and slow. the touch and the passing ideas were there, but it looked like the pace of the game was a tad quicker for him.
Don't think he's a special player on his own, he's a player who can implement a system very well, which is a system we're very distant from.
Having watched him last season he looked heavy and slow. the touch and the passing ideas were there, but it looked like the pace of the game was a tad quicker for him.
Don't think he's a special player on his own, he's a player who can implement a system very well, which is a system we're very distant from.
He never, even in his best days at Ajax, showed any potential to be near KDB level. So, to me, he'll always be an average team player.
was?This guy was considered a massive flop and barely got gametime during his first nearly 2 years at the club.
He's had long spells where he's frequently been the best player on the pitch, especially previous season. Just stop with this exhausting narrative.
Nothing more than positional irregularity for the best XI
I saw a photo the other day of all Oles signings with photos of their faces stacked in 3 rows of 3 and it’s quite clear… ole just doesn’t like blondes
I'm afraid you won't get anywhere with some of these people. They just don't care about reality and want to play their stupid games.
However, I do feel van de Beek is done at our club and if I was him, I'd push for a move. He should be growing into the player he's meant to be right now at his age and not waiting for some illusory chance that gets blown away by Jessie 'Youngster at 29 who wants to be assured of playing time' Lingard starting or coming on from bench ahead of him when Donny should be the one getting picked considering the money and promise he has as a player.
I think DVB was suppose to use as a RCM in a 433 formation. But United and Ole end up with a 4231 formation last season. And in a 4231 formation. Ole will never change DVB for Bruno as the nr.10. And DVB is not a top nr.8. In the mould of Scholes, Modric, Yaya Toure or Joshua Kimmich. And Ole prefer McTom & Fred as cm duo. So DVB end in nowhere land.
Now as a scouting. I will give a short description how to get the best out of DVB. Which i think i have done before. Because peoples have been talking about who is buying DVB and i have given my opinion. Again.
To get the best out of DVB. You have to use him as RCM in a 433 Dutch and Ajax formation.
Or as a free CAM in a 4231 where his second best postion is.
First the Ajax 433 formation:
DVB - Blind - De Jong before joining Barca
or in Leeds 433 formation.
Raphina - DVB - Kalvin Phillips - Klich - Harrison + Bamford
+ In his second best position. A free CAM. Free to roam all over the attacking line and area. In a 4231 formation. With United.
Sancho - Bruno - McTom - Rashford + DVB + Greenwood/Ronaldo.
There you have. Then. We ask we DVB is best as a RCM in a 433 formation?
First we have to ask. What is RCM player? The example of top level RCM was and is:
Xavi for Barca like this : Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta
K.D Bruyne for Man.City : Bruyne - Fernadinho - Silva/Foden
And the upcoming RCM Nicola Barella for Inter and Italy: Barella - Jorginho - Locatelli
So what is RCM? :
- First they are central midfield player. But not like a deep laying cm player who sitting back. Dictate and spread the passes around. They are cm runners. Run with the ball and move from central midfield area to the attack. They are a better dribler than a natural CM players. They can pass opponent players with the ball easily. Like Iniesta, Silva, KD Bruyne or Barella. Those RCM and LCM are not sitting back in the midfield most of the time. Like the nr DCM/nr.6 in a 3 men midfield. You will see they roam the space beetween opponents midfield and defend a lot. Combine with the wingers and CF.
And too DVB. We can see he defintely can make run with the ball from midfield to attack. And they run a lot and have high stamina. They are more of a box to box player. With the ball most of the time. But not as the only box to box nr.8 in 2 cm duo in a 442 formation. Beside a DM.
So that are the biggest different between a RCM/LCM to a DCM in a 3 men midfield.
- And as a free CAM and nr.10. This a free attacking playmaker playing behind the CF and infront of the CM duo. A link player beetween midfield and attack.
And example of the highest level of a nr.10 CAM is Zidane for Juventus and Kaka for Ac Milan. And Bruno as nr.10 for United so far. DVB can do a really good nr.10 role too. Because DVB has good football vision. Has two good feets. And can play few touches precise football. And his good timing or the running into opponents box.
Sum up and conclusion: United didnt used 433 really often in the last 2 years. Plus Bruno is a bankers as nr.10. So DVB end up in nowhere land. But if you want to get the best out of DVB. His best position is a RCM and second position is a free nr.10/CAM.
Finito and no more about DVB from me. I think Ole/United and DVB shall find a solution to not wasting his football talents. Because i believe DVB is not a average and middle table teams player. If you use him right and get the best and max level out of him. On a regular and consistent basis. Not the best category, but definitely a really good football player if you use him right. Motivate and boost his confidence. Definitely good enough for a starting line for example Leeds current 433 XI line up.
Now as a scouting. I will give a short description how to get the best out of DVB. Which i think i have done before. Because peoples have been talking about who is buying DVB and i have given my opinion. Again.
To get the best out of DVB. You have to use him as RCM in a 433 Dutch and Ajax formation.
Or as a free CAM in a 4231 where his second best postion is.
First the Ajax 433 formation:
DVB - Blind - De Jong before joining Barca
or in Leeds 433 formation.
Raphina - DVB - Kalvin Phillips - Klich - Harrison + Bamford
+ In his second best position. A free CAM. Free to roam all over the attacking line and area. In a 4231 formation. With United.
Sancho - Bruno - McTom - Rashford + DVB + Greenwood/Ronaldo.
There you have. Then. We ask we DVB is best as a RCM in a 433 formation?
First we have to ask. What is RCM player? The example of top level RCM was and is:
Xavi for Barca like this : Xavi - Busquets - Iniesta
K.D Bruyne for Man.City : Bruyne - Fernadinho - Silva/Foden
And the upcoming RCM Nicola Barella for Inter and Italy: Barella - Jorginho - Locatelli
So what is RCM? :
- First they are central midfield player. But not like a deep laying cm player who sitting back. Dictate and spread the passes around. They are cm runners. Run with the ball and move from central midfield area to the attack. They are a better dribler than a natural CM players. They can pass opponent players with the ball easily. Like Iniesta, Silva, KD Bruyne or Barella. Those RCM and LCM are not sitting back in the midfield most of the time. Like the nr DCM/nr.6 in a 3 men midfield. You will see they roam the space beetween opponents midfield and defend a lot. Combine with the wingers and CF.
And too DVB. We can see he defintely can make run with the ball from midfield to attack. And they run a lot and have high stamina. They are more of a box to box player. With the ball most of the time. But not as the only box to box nr.8 in 2 cm duo in a 442 formation. Beside a DM.
So that are the biggest different between a RCM/LCM to a DCM in a 3 men midfield.
- And as a free CAM and nr.10. This a free attacking playmaker playing behind the CF and infront of the CM duo. A link player beetween midfield and attack.
And example of the highest level of a nr.10 CAM is Zidane for Juventus and Kaka for Ac Milan. And Bruno as nr.10 for United so far. DVB can do a really good nr.10 role too. Because DVB has good football vision. Has two good feets. And can play few touches precise football. And his good timing or the running into opponents box.
Sum up and conclusion: United didnt used 433 really often in the last 2 years. Plus Bruno is a bankers as nr.10. So DVB end up in nowhere land. But if you want to get the best out of DVB. His best position is a RCM and second position is a free nr.10/CAM.
Finito and no more about DVB from me. I think Ole/United and DVB shall find a solution to not wasting his football talents. Because i believe DVB is not a average and middle table teams player. If you use him right and get the best and max level out of him. On a regular and consistent basis. Not the best category, but definitely a really good football player if you use him right. Motivate and boost his confidence. Definitely good enough for a starting line for example Leeds current 433 XI line up.
There are three threads about DvB in the top eleven threads on this forum
Why do we talk about him obsessively? He HAS had chances and not taken them, either at 6, 8 or 10
He WILL get more chances, at some point, but he will have to show improved form, or I think he will be off in the Summer
Why do we talk about him obsessively? He HAS had chances and not taken them, either at 6, 8 or 10
He WILL get more chances, at some point, but he will have to show improved form, or I think he will be off in the Summer
He is still shite
Where is he going to play?
He can't play as a number 10 because that's where Bruno plays and will keep playing unless something terrible happens. So the only other position he can play is as one of the midfield two. Now you need at least one holding midfielder so ipso facto there's only one position Donny could be picked in (as the more creative half of the double pivot) and he has a few major problems there.
Ole clearly doesn't fancy or trust him to do that job and if we want to play Sancho and Greenwood either side of Ronaldo then Pogba is going to have to drop into that position. So the poor guy doesn't have any pathway to regular playing time.
If he doesn't start tomorrow then I think we can all pack away these threads and declare his United clear as done. Which would be a real shame because I do believe there's a brilliant player there that we've not been able to get the best out of.
He can't play as a number 10 because that's where Bruno plays and will keep playing unless something terrible happens. So the only other position he can play is as one of the midfield two. Now you need at least one holding midfielder so ipso facto there's only one position Donny could be picked in (as the more creative half of the double pivot) and he has a few major problems there.
Ole clearly doesn't fancy or trust him to do that job and if we want to play Sancho and Greenwood either side of Ronaldo then Pogba is going to have to drop into that position. So the poor guy doesn't have any pathway to regular playing time.
If he doesn't start tomorrow then I think we can all pack away these threads and declare his United clear as done. Which would be a real shame because I do believe there's a brilliant player there that we've not been able to get the best out of.
Agree totally. It is insane
The dilemma is that other players are better. Even tomorrow with players missing, either plays in a two with Pogba or we will be leaving one of Pogba, Sancho, Greenwood or Ronaldo on the bench.
This is where Ole needs to follow what SAF did. He took players off and bring in new players to refresh things up. Bruno should not be playing in every game. He should be rested and so should Pogba.
Until next summer
It's a reflection of our weakness in midfield more than a reflection of VDB I think, with our current potential first choice pairings notably flawed.
If we're hoping anyone has any chance of offering a better alternative to that this season then it has to be VDB, if only because we've seen less of him in that role than Matic and are therefore less certain he can't do it.
It's not like we're hoping for a lot. Just that a central two of, say, Fred + VDB might be functionally better than Fred + McTominay or Fred + Pogba. And there's a dream world where last season was a standard slow adjustment to the league for VDB, he hits form this season and we upgrade the McFred pairing we rely so much on with a technically sound, positionally intelligent #6/#8. Until that dream is killed people will keep hoping for more VDB involvement and the only way the dream really gets killed is if he gets a good run of games there.
Ole doesn't rate him. It's that simple.
It's an obsession. And many use it as an argument for OleOut
Exactly. So tired of people rolling out the argument that he’s not good enough, when he hasn’t fully been tested. Give him the chance and let’s see. Now that we have Varanasi were even more solid if people come through the middle, so let’s just give him a shot. Fred and and McTominay have had numerous games where they’ve failed. Yet this guy never gets a go. And when he has played proper minutes he’s done pretty well. Be such a shame if he leaves without us ever getting a chance to see what he could do. Another reason why we needed the CDM. Then we could have tried all 3 with them and Pogba. Such a huge miss.
The trouble is though, if we played Donny in CM, it would be alongside Pogba, with Fernandes basically playing as a shadow striker. Doesn't offer much protection at all does it! I know we all want to see attacking football but that would be asking for trouble in my opinion
Fred's turn of fate is more because of change in manager, isn't it?
It wouldn't have to be. After all, we'll be playing a McFred midfield without Pogba in a lot of games as is. We could play Pogba at LW as we already have this season, where he is better for us.
Van De Beek and Lingard would play only in emergency, with all the players injured
solskjaer always says they will give them time, all lies as usual, they are at United only to do number, because you need to register 25 players
He is very rigid, doesn’t rotate players, he plays always with the same 13/14 players (even if they are not completely fit)
solskjaer always says they will give them time, all lies as usual, they are at United only to do number, because you need to register 25 players
He is very rigid, doesn’t rotate players, he plays always with the same 13/14 players (even if they are not completely fit)
The problem is what he's behind every body even Fred and Mctominay based on the quality he offers. VdB as an AM with our style of play just doesn't work and Bruno and Pogba as AM offer way more so he has to get past them to start. VDB in the double pivot will be behind Pogba because Pogba is simply the better player. He would also be behind Fred or Mctominay or Matic who is usually paired with Pogba in the double pivot because he isn't as defensively solid as them to partner with Pogba.
Olé was bailed out tonight, but the overall performance suggests he hasn't the tactical chops to get the best out of his squad. He doesn't know how to use a player like VDB and won't play him.
Cant blame him, i'd be pissed off watching that midfield showing tonight, and then to bring Matic on is salt in the wounds.
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Can't blame him.
That's pretty sad to be honest. Went to the wrong club, I don't know if he's good enough but his attributes are not rated by our manager so we're never going to find out really. Should just let him leave in the winter if he's not in the plans.
He’s going to be great for Barca. Perfect play style for him. Ole is a massive idiot.
Interesting his reaction towards Ole, and the players comforting him.
Not a good look, for Ole i mean.
Shouldn't have blocked him from moving this last window. No idea why Ole kept him since it is clear he won't ever play him. DVB has ever right to be incensed with the club after they prevented his from transferring.
He is a flopThis guy was considered a massive flop and barely got gametime during his first nearly 2 years at the club.
He’ll be back in Holland within 3 years.
Proper pissed