What’s the dilemma with Donny’s playing time & Ole?

[CanadianUtd]

That's unfortunate for him then as I don't think he will be given much more 'settling in' time.

Bruno hit the ground running when he arrived, Donny hasn't for whatever reason. We need people that can. You don't get much settling in time in the Champions League and Premier league. A couple of losses and the manager is on the chopping block. The Carabao cup exit was a lot worse than people think for the squads development.

Fair. I just don’t think he can have “more” settling in time if he never had it to begin with in the first place.

Bruno really is an exception historically. Comparing anyone to him in the role he plays and the immediate impact he had is unfair as it’s not the norm. “For whatever reason”, again I’m going to have to regurgitate my point that it’s because there’s no minutes or an even playing field for him when he’s shown the pitch.

 

[JanK]

Donny needs to have some 3-4 games as a starter. He would be great in a 3-man midfield and good in a 2 next to McTominay. His passing and skillset is definitely better than Fred has and gives another angle to our gameplan.

 

[CanadianUtd]

Not McFred's biggest fan (far from it etc.), but when you see people say VDB has shown more and made a big enough impact to be playing ahead of them I just have to laugh. If he'd look anywhere close to be worthy of replacing them, he'd have done so by now. I like Donny, I want it to happen for him here, but bloody hell has he just looked a big big bowl of nothing the majority of the time.

well he shouldn’t be compared to playing the roles that McFred do


That’s the 1st and biggest problem. (and somehow that’s VDB’s fault also…)

 

[Judas]

well he shouldn’t be compared to playing the roles that McFred do


That’s the 1st and biggest problem. (and somehow that’s VDB’s fault also…)

He's the one saying he can play those roles, literally, he's pimping himself out to play as the number 6. Which is baffling from what I've ever seen of him really.

 

[Relfy]

Nobody here is making a case that he's been a supersub coming on from the bench.

We are however questioning the players above him in the picking order.

Let's say you have Bruno, Pogba, Fred, Mctominay and Matić occupying the positions he could play....we can't excatly question the likes of Ronaldo or Sancho or Greenwood playing before him now could we.

Out of the five, you have Bruno starting every game, rightly so. He scores, he makes things happen.
Then you have Pogba, although he's mostly shit in a two midfield formation, when he's in a more attacking position, he's been good.
And then, you have the 3 players who are Donnys direct competition - Fred Mctominay and Matić.

Out of the 3, you could say Matić is the best player out there.
That is, he would be, if his body isn't shot. Which is, considering he's 5 years younger then Ronaldo, quite depressing.
Fred and Mctominay - let's not get into that.

Tldr; feck me sideways, he should really be given a 90 minute competitive chance to see what can he do.
Its not like he's a fecking kid from the U17 so let's see him play with the big Boys, we know he can play, anybody who's seen him play for Ajax knows that.
That's why we fecking bought him for crying out loud!!!

I get what you're saying, and I'm not against the lad getting a run of games at all, but we do have to consider here that maybe he is being outperformed in training everyday by his direct competition, hence why his chances are then limited on the pitch. I'm not saying that is the case, I don't know what happens in training, the same as the rest of this forum, but we have to accept that this is a possibility, and therefore a possible reason for his exclusion.

For all the grief McFred gets, they are the most balanced 2 we have in midfield and work well together over long periods. That's not to say one or both cannot be improved upon, but surveying the players we have at our disposal, they have shown that they work well together more consistently than other combinations.

 

[CanadianUtd]

He's the one saying he can play those roles, literally, he's pimping himself out to play as the number 6. Which is baffling from what I've ever seen of him really.

I mean what else do you expect him to say, that he should play the #10 over Bruno!

 

[TMDaines]

Then why is he even on bench for the UCL game? Why even have him there if he is never going to play him? None of this makes any sense, and there is no way to justify what Ole is doing.

He’s getting about as much time as I would expect United’s 20th or 21st most important outfielder to get. It’s not that hard to work out.

Donny would get more playing time if he had worked a bit harder in defence and not been at fault for West Ham’s goal that saw us exist from the Carabao.

 

[clarkydaz]

He’s getting about as much time as I would expect United’s 20th or 21st most important outfielder to get. It’s not that hard to work out.

Donny would get more playing time if he had worked a bit harder in defence and not been at fault for West Ham’s goal that saw us exist from the Carabao.

No he wouldnt.

 

[MadMike]

He’s getting about as much time as I would expect United’s 20th or 21st most important outfielder to get. It’s not that hard to work out.

Donny would get more playing time if he had worked a bit harder in defence and not been at fault for West Ham’s goal that saw us exist from the Carabao.

Cool, cause he wasn’t at fault for West Ham’s goal.

 

[TMDaines]

No he wouldnt.

There would literally be more games for us to play.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

I think it's over for him here, wouldn't be surprised to see him leave in January. Definitely in the summer, if not.

 

[tomaldinho1]

He's the one saying he can play those roles, literally, he's pimping himself out to play as the number 6. Which is baffling from what I've ever seen of him really.

He can play 6…we need to stop thinking our 6 needs to be some technically limited but hard running CM though. Issue is as it always has been with many of our signings, we have bought a good player but he doesn’t really fit into our system. He’s gone in summer 100%, it’s clear he’s going to feel Ole has lied to him when you listen to that interview a few weeks back.

 

[clarkydaz]

There would literally be more games for us to play.

His gametime isnt revolving around one moment where ironically he was busting a gut to get back to defend, and not dragging his arse. I cant count the times Fred has literally passed to the opposition so far this season putting us under threat but plays regardless

 

[choccy77]

Did he buy him without seeing him play then?

No he bought him as a panic buy, cos he thought Pogba was leaving

 

[choccy77]

I've only seen VDB complete maybe 2 or 3 key passes since he's been at United.

Gives ball away a lot. We already have Fred for that role.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

I'm not sure how people can claim DVD has been given enough chances. You cannot add up his playing time and say "there you go....what has he done?". He's been picked sporadically and more often than not doesn't get enough time in each game.

Ok-he maybe hasn't pulled up any trees in the time he has been on the pitch but it's not like we are Barcelona and once DVD comes on then it all falls to pieces, We're already a dysfunctional team (especially in midfield). It's hard to shine in that environment.

Sancho has done sweet FA for us so far this season yet is getting game time. Matic was poor last year but had game time.

 

[Ikon]

...but we do have to consider here that maybe he is being outperformed in training everyday by his direct competition, hence why his chances are then limited on the pitch.

That's a possibility of course, but if that is the case, then why block him from going out on loan to another PL club where he will be a starter, gaining valuable PL experience..?
And if Solskjaer really doesn't think the player is good enough, then why not sell him, when he knew that there was a policy of "sell to buy"?

 

[Fortitude]

No matter what you think of the VdB situation, the bigger issue is it's leaving us a body short in midfield options and more importantly, recovery.

- Matic will be a wreck by March if rolled out with the frequency he is being used.

- McTominay does not look match fit to me, and hope Ole is not doing another Rashford and playing him regardless.

- Fred is not getting any recuperation. The only reason he was out of the team is his form.

- Pogba, in any combination with the above, is being used sub-optimally, which will lead to ups and downs in form and mood.

If the plan is to get to the January window and address both the issue of VdB and get a body or two in, it, although a terrible plan, at least has some semblance of logic to it. If we're just bumbling along with no rhyme or reason to any of this, the fallout will be felt more in 2022 than it is now, when our overworked midfield foursome are flagging and/or picking up injuries due to fatigue.

VdB's situation makes no sense to me, but the lack of foresight is a bigger issue. We're up against clubs with solid midfield sets of players, 1st team and rotation options, and we're going along with: an old player who cannot even see out a full 90 minutes, let alone a weeks' worth of games; a pocket rocket who is never rotated with a like-for-like player (if we need a runner, Fred plays, no matter what); a player who was in need of surgery, who took it *in* season... no matter how minor said surgery is/was, there is always a potential for the recovery to not go as planned or need longer than estimated, which I personally think is being evidenced. And last, but not least, Pogba being dropped into partnerships that don't even work on paper and being expected to deliver like they do.

It's poor all round.

 

[wolvored]

Van Basten said he wasnt a very good player; However saying that he should ask Ole to sell him asap and also ask him why he bought him in the first place. Hes lost his place in the Dutch squad and at 24 he needs to be playing regularly somewhere.

Link

 

[Marcus]

I've only seen VDB complete maybe 2 or 3 key passes since he's been at United.

Gives ball away a lot. We already have Fred for that role.

Hmm. Donny is not a lot of things (fast, individually brilliant etc) but he most definitely does not give the ball away a lot.

 

[Korwas]

Reminds me of the Romero situation last year when he had offers and wanted to leave but we didn't sell him, proceeded not to play him once all season and this summer the offers where gone and now he sits without a club. I think it's low class to be honest but atleast DVB is young and should recover from this in another club. Even if Pogba leaves I just think we will buy a replacement and DVB is stuck again.

 

[sugar_kane]

Can't wait til we sell this guy, for his sake and ours (so we don't have to keep hearing about how he's the answer to everything)

Something clearly a bit off behind the scenes but game-time always boils down to whether the manager thinks he will make a positive difference or not, for any player or any club.

That we didn't sell him in summer makes me think someone else influential at the club wants him to stay, could this be a disagreement between Ole and Fletcher/Murtough?

 

[wilkie1990]

He is clearly out of his depth at United and not good enough to be anything more than a cup player. Also, worth pointing out the way he acted yesterday at not being put on, throwing gum in the direction of Phelan, possibly suggests he has attitude problems too.

 

[Desert Eagle]

If Mctom can play as badly as he did and not get subbed, Donny is done at this club. He will and should leave soon.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

The best thing for both VDB and the club is to sell him while he still has value. Get a player we will actually use.

 

[Ronaldo's Love Child]

I get what you're saying, and I'm not against the lad getting a run of games at all, but we do have to consider here that maybe he is being outperformed in training everyday by his direct competition, hence why his chances are then limited on the pitch. I'm not saying that is the case, I don't know what happens in training, the same as the rest of this forum, but we have to accept that this is a possibility, and therefore a possible reason for his exclusion.

For all the grief McFred gets, they are the most balanced 2 we have in midfield and work well together over long periods. That's not to say one or both cannot be improved upon, but surveying the players we have at our disposal, they have shown that they work well together more consistently than other combinations.

That maybe so but he'd have to be absolute dog shite in training to warrant his game time currently. Let's not forget that DVB isn't some youngster or unknown talent. He was a pivotal player in the Ajax team. Our scouts would (should) have scrutinised everything about him.

By that argument then Sancho must be tearing it up in training as he's done nothing for us so far. Martial can't even be bothered to run around the pitch and look interested but he was getting picked.

 

[frostbite]

Cool, cause he wasn’t at fault for West Ham’s goal.

He was. Watch the goal again. You will see that he leaves the player who scores their goal.

I don't know if DVB is a good or a bad player, but so far he has done nothing good for us. He does not seem to be the solution to any of our problems, or upgrade to any position. Most people do not even know what his position is supposed to be. He is not good in attack, he is not good in defence, what is he good for? Passing right back to any player who gives him the ball?

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/post-match-vs-west-ham-united.465640/post-27818805

 

[Castia]

I'm not pretending anything mate. Donny has been given a reasonable chance to stake his claim on a number of positions. I understand about consistency and confidence, that aside, if he still can't impress the manager in 1500+ mins in all comps then maybe he isn't quite as good as people like to think he is. I like Donny but this weird make-a-wish foundation cult is mental. If he is good enough to play for United, he will play for united. Personally Id like to see more of players like Hanibal and Amad in a United shirt

Donny has been pretty mediocre over a small period of time I’d accept that but Fred has been average at best and absolutely terrible on numerous occasions yet gets 40 starts a season.

Id understand Donny not playing if our midfield was solid but everybody but Ole seems to know it’s the weak point.

 

[Andersonson]

Think his pre match presser tells you he clearly rates energy and workrate over quality on the ball which is staggering

 

[Andersonson]

That's just nonsense. He played very well against Young Boys and after he was taken off we fell apart and lost complete control of the midfield. Maybe it is a coincidence. But then he played well against West Ham, too. For the first time in ages we actually controlled the midfield and dominated the game. Again, he was dropped after that game.

As far as the talk of training goes, why are people even talking about that? None of us know how well he is training or if that's the reason he is not picked, so it has no consequence. All I'm seeing is a guy that should start given McFred looking absolutely pathetic every time on the pitch and not being given ANY chances to actually cement a place. We don't need a bunch of headless chickens running in midfield, we need a guy who can accurately pass a ball, slow the pace down when needed, increase it, etc. And in that capacity Donny is our best player. As far as his other qualities, I think he did very well in that West Ham game in taking the ball, breaking the plays, but again... for some reason he is not a preferred option.

And what pisses me off most about this is that if Ole has some kind of a gripe with him, then feckign sell him. Why even keep him?

He didn't play well against West Ham, he played OK.
The standards are dropped when it's him. Massively.

He ain't a midfielder it 4231 either. Lingard,Bruno, Fred, Mctominay and Matic are all above him the pecking order.

That tells you everything about Donnys career at United

 

[Jezpeza]

To me he has looked 3 yards off the pace every time he has played for us. I’m not sure how he fits into our midfield - he cant displace pogba and bruno and he is not a holding midfielder.

Its getting to the point where he plays a match and makes a few passes and a couple of interceptions as should any midfielder from league 2 upwards and everyone is saying ‘he looked better today’.

I hope he can come good but theres a strong whiff of Davy Klaasen about him. He looked mustard at Ajax but couldnt adapt to the Premier league at all

 

[Mentality Monsters]

#freedonny

 

[tenpoless]

Ole = Swole Doge. Donny = Crying Cheems. You know it makes sense. Donny must be crying every night thinking of Stroopewafel and Kroket.

 

[DickDastardly]

It's October.

We have 18 games till January.

If he can't get at least 3 full 90 minutes to make his stake here, then sell the man. Set him free.

And for the love of god and everything nice, buy the midfielder YOU ARE GOING TO USE!!

 

[Relfy]

That maybe so but he'd have to be absolute dog shite in training to warrant his game time currently. Let's not forget that DVB isn't some youngster or unknown talent. He was a pivotal player in the Ajax team. Our scouts would (should) have scrutinised everything about him.

By that argument then Sancho must be tearing it up in training as he's done nothing for us so far. Martial can't even be bothered to run around the pitch and look interested but he was getting picked.

Maybe he is dog shite in training. Maybe Sancho and Martial are good in training. Maybe Martial gets more chances as he's a bigger goal threat. I don't know and I'm not claiming to either.

You're bang on - he was good at Ajax, but he hasn't shown that form or level in the (limited) chances he has had at United thus far. I assume that like any club, the manager picks players on form and from what they show behind closed doors in training, but also from them taking their chances when they get them. He shouldn't be picked because we paid £34m for him, for his name, his form at Ajax or anything else, only based on what he can add to the team in the here and now. If he isn't meeting standards then he is rightly benched.

My initial point was down to some revisionism that happens now and again with players either not playing or injured, where the fan base bigs them up to be better than they ever were. It looks to me like this is another one of those scenarios.

 

[clarkydaz]

Maybe he is dog shite in training. Maybe Sancho and Martial are good in training. Maybe Martial gets more chances as he's a bigger goal threat. I don't know and I'm not claiming to either.

You're bang on - he was good at Ajax, but he hasn't shown that form or level in the (limited) chances he has had at United thus far. I assume that like any club, the manager picks players on form and from what they show behind closed doors in training, but also from them taking their chances when they get them. He shouldn't be picked because we paid £34m for him, for his name, his form at Ajax or anything else, only based on what he can add to the team in the here and now. If he isn't meeting standards then he is rightly benched.

My initial point was down to some revisionism that happens now and again with players either not playing or injured, where the fan base bigs them up to be better than they ever were. It looks to me like this is another one of those scenarios.

thats clealy not the case with ole, he said himelf he 'trusts' them whatever that means.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

Deserves to be sold or loaned out to get first team football. Far too good a player to be not played. Will be back to his best once he escapes from Ole.

 

[Spoony]

I suspect he's shit. Sorry Donny fans.

 

[Ikon]

He does not seem to be the solution to any of our problems, or upgrade to any position. Most people do not even know what his position is supposed to be. He is not good in attack, he is not good in defence, what is he good for?

I'm just baffled by this Donny situation, because whatever explanation someone gives, it just raises yet another question.
Why was Donny even signed in the first place, if he isn't an upgrade or his best position is undecided?

If Solskjaer doesn't think Donny is good enough, why hasn't he been sold, considering the policy of "Sell to Buy"?
If Solskjaer does rate him, but doesn't feel he is ready yet, then why block him from going out on loan to another PL club, where he would be a starter?
If Solskjaer is concerned about squad depth, what's the point of retaining a player for the squad, that he rarely uses, or isn't good enough, or doesn't know how to utilise?

The other thing is, Donny must have been assured of more game time by Solskjaer, so why would Solskjaer do that, knowing that he would be continually overlooking him again this season...?
It just feels like a strange kind of limbo....

 

[FahadiHossein]

A lot of comments that Fred plays like crap and still gets picked, but even when Fred is dropped, the alternatives are either Matic or McTominay, and not still him.
VdB's direct competition is either the CM role, which either McTominay or Pogba plays, or the AMC role, which Bruno plays.
When United is not winning, Pogba will play the CM role to allow a striker or a left winger to come in. When OGS wants a more compact CM against big team, vDB's cannot contribute defensively as Matic, McTominay or Fred.