g = window.googletag || {}; googletag.cmd = googletag.cmd || []; window.googletag = googletag; googletag.cmd.push(function() { var interstitialSlot = googletag.defineOutOfPageSlot('/17085479/redcafe_gam_interstitial', googletag.enums.OutOfPageFormat.INTERSTITIAL); if (interstitialSlot) { interstitialSlot.addService(googletag.pubads()); } });
I agree with the bolded above, you have changed my mind on this. That's a angle I didnt consider.The difference between Newcastle fans and the average Uk citizen who doesn’t take to the streets over their countries relationship with Saudi is that the average Uk citizen isn’t being cynically weaponised in a PR battle. The Saudis brought the club to launder their reputation. They know that this is the best way to instantly generate an army of advocates online. Shouting down criticism of their human rights abuses and parroting whatever talking points they want in the media that week to defend their latest atrocities.
Those fans are being used in the most blatant and depressing manner. Used to whitewash ongoing state sanctioned humans rights abuses that vastly exceed anything the UK government has done in the recent past. They’ve become pawns of genuinely evil people. If they don’t even take a moment to think about what it means to be used in that manner then more fool them.
I’m a long way from being a fan of the UK government and its foreign policy over the years. I’m Irish ffs.See. There is the brainwashing.
"It's great here so I don't care how many people we're killing in the rest of the world."
Go talk to someone in Iraq and Afghanistan whose family was harassed, killed by US/UK forces and then get back to me.
Well it'll certainly create more plastics!Why would a football club be any different from a plastics factory?
I just find it rich to hear people from UK and US talk about morality of other governments without considering what they have and continue to do throughout the world. Even if you want to talk about shades of grey, the US and UK are as dark as you can get any other country because of how their horrible imperialist policies have destroyed other countries, and how they continue to prop up dictators because it suits their needs in the region.I’m a long way from being a fan of the UK government and its foreign policy over the years. I’m Irish ffs.
I am, however, aware that there are shades of grey. And anyone who claims moral equivalence between the Uk and Saudi Arabia is either stupid or being deliberately disingenuous. All the whataboutism in this thread is silly.
This might be the most ridiculous take I’ve seen yet. Kudos.The saudis have been investing in various businesses all over the world for decades now. Why would a football club be any different from a plastics factory? They saw a good investment opportunity and they went for it I don’t like it because it potentially pushes us further away from the top but I didn’t have a problem with the saudis investing in the economy before this and I don’t see why I would suddenly develop one now.
“Supports Germany”.I just find it rich to hear people from UK and US talk about morality of other governments without considering what they have and continue to do throughout the world. Even if you want to talk about shades of grey, the US and UK are as dark as you can get any other country because of how their horrible imperialist policies have destroyed other countries, and how they continue to prop up dictators because it suits their needs in the region.
If you think the UK and US is better than them, this isn't about whataboutism, it's self realization.
Afghanistan? Literally in the last 10 years.Such as?
Yeah, I saw 50k people cheering when plastic was prepared, also same emotional investment in the plastic factory as club.The saudis have been investing in various businesses all over the world for decades now. Why would a football club be any different from a plastics factory? They saw a good investment opportunity and they went for it I don’t like it because it potentially pushes us further away from the top but I didn’t have a problem with the saudis investing in the economy before this and I don’t see why I would suddenly develop one now.
The UK literally owns whole countries not just a football club. They have been whitewashing for centuriesWhy is this thread a pissing contest about the U.K. versus Saudi Arabia? Surely the point is the U.K. government don’t own a sodding football club as a propaganda tool? Newcastle now purely exist as a means of the Saudi state. To support them is to support that state. What atrocities the U.K. state have or haven’t done is sodding irrelevant. It’s not fecking hard.
Who is allowed to say anything critical of Saudi Arabia, then?I just find it rich to hear people from UK and US talk about morality of other governments without considering what they have and continue to do throughout the world. Even if you want to talk about shades of grey, the US and UK are as dark as you can get any other country because of how their horrible imperialist policies have destroyed other countries, and how they continue to prop up dictators because it suits their needs in the region.
If you think the UK and US is better than them, this isn't about whataboutism, it's self realization.
And everyone with a brain thinks it's awful.The UK literally owns whole countries not just a football club. They have been whitewashing for centuries
Perfectly explained.Why is this thread a pissing contest about the U.K. versus Saudi Arabia? Surely the point is the U.K. government don’t own a sodding football club as a propaganda tool? Newcastle now purely exist as a means of the Saudi state. To support them is to support that state. What atrocities the U.K. state have or haven’t done is sodding irrelevant. It’s not fecking hard.
I do agree with this but at the same time these people will become pawns out of their own choice and nothing else.The difference between Newcastle fans and the average Uk citizen who doesn’t take to the streets over their countries relationship with Saudi is that the average Uk citizen isn’t being cynically weaponised in a PR battle. The Saudis brought the club to launder their reputation. They know that this is the best way to instantly generate an army of advocates online. Shouting down criticism of their human rights abuses and parroting whatever talking points they want in the media that week to defend their latest atrocities.
Those fans are being used in the most blatant and depressing manner. Used to whitewash ongoing state sanctioned humans rights abuses that vastly exceed anything the UK government has done in the recent past. They’ve become pawns of genuinely evil people. If they don’t even take a moment to think about what it means to be used in that manner then more fool them.
If and when the UK government buy a football club in another country, feel free to bring that up. Meanwhile, could we maybe keep the focus on the state that just bought a football club in the Premier League?The UK literally owns whole countries not just a football club. They have been whitewashing for centuries
To be fair, I'd love to see the reaction if the royal family tried to buy Schalke for whitewashing the whole Brexit fiasco.If and when the UK government buy a football club in another country, feel free to bring that up. Meanwhile, could we maybe keep the focus on the state that just bought a football club in the Premier League?
You are a bit cocky for a supporter of a club who couldn't win a trophy if they were the only team in it and could well be back where you belong, in the championship, next season irritating wee club.On a positive note to man utd fans- we have some promising youngsters in our reserves that are looking for a regular first team football.. we might loan them to you (without option to buy)
Why can’t individuals who live in th UK or USA criticise the morality of other Governments or their own government for that matter!. We are not speaking on behalf of the people who govern us.I just find it rich to hear people from UK and US talk about morality of other governments without considering what they have and continue to do throughout the world. Even if you want to talk about shades of grey, the US and UK are as dark as you can get any other country because of how their horrible imperialist policies have destroyed other countries, and how they continue to prop up dictators because it suits their needs in the region.
If you think the UK and US is better than them, this isn't about whataboutism, it's self realization.
So the Ruhrderby would start with "You never walk alone" vs. "God save the Queen"? Yeah, I dunno about thatTo be fair, I'd love to see the reaction if the royal family tried to buy Schalke for whitewashing the whole Brexit fiasco.
“Supports Germany”.
By your own standard, this definitely puts you in a great position to criticize the UK and US considering your squeaky clean modern history
Who is allowed to say anything critical of Saudi Arabia, then?
You see I was going to say the Spanish but then they had that whole Spanish Inquisition, thing.
Then I thought, Sacre Bleu! Why the French of course. But then I remembered their involvement in West Africa.
I guess it is left to you, Germany. Just checking your history over the last 100 years, nope, not a thing...
Clearly none of you get the point. It's not that you aren't allowed to criticize regimes, it's when you claim to hold the morale high ground with comments like 'ask etc etc who lives there how it is'.Why can’t individuals who live in th UK or USA criticise the morality of other Governments or their own government for that matter!. We are not speaking on behalf of the people who govern us.
It is like saying that individuals who live in Saudi are not allowed to criticise other governments just because their government is so evil. Well Saudi citizens should be able to criticise other governments and their own just like citizens anywhere else but the fact is they would be chopped up if they criticised their own government
Yeah it's nuts, someone posted a painting of a Newcastle shirt from Twitter earlier. On that twitter thread one of the Newcastle fans talking shit said he was just happy Ashley left and wasn't celebrating the Saudi's arrival. And I might just have believed him if he hadn't already changed his profile picture to one of MBS.You’re even seeing the Saudi flag on a load of profiles on Twitter. Can you imagine that happening in any other scenario?!
I assume you meant to reply to someone else mate?The saudis have been investing in various businesses all over the world for decades now. Why would a football club be any different from a plastics factory? They saw a good investment opportunity and they went for it I don’t like it because it potentially pushes us further away from the top but I didn’t have a problem with the saudis investing in the economy before this and I don’t see why I would suddenly develop one now.
Yeah all this guff about Newcastle fans and their 'suffering' this week has genuinely baffled me. They've been in a better position than 90% of clubs in the last decade.Ashley’s a twat and a terrible person but the idea that Newcastle’s time under him (spent mainly in mid-table security) was an unendurable burden is ridiculous.
Here we go… was only a matter of time before they signed up.On a positive note to man utd fans- we have some promising youngsters in our reserves that are looking for a regular first team football.. we might loan them to you (without option to buy)
Because you can't engage in whatboutism to deflect form the topic at hand unless you have something to whatabout, about.Why is this thread a pissing contest about the U.K. versus Saudi Arabia?
Some aren't bright enough to realize that or know but don't care.Surely the point is the U.K. government don’t own a sodding football club as a propaganda tool? Newcastle now purely exist as a means of the Saudi state. To support them is to support that state. What atrocities the U.K. state have or haven’t done is sodding irrelevant. It’s not fecking hard.
Nope its just that owning a whole country for propogander is worse. But most don't like the mirror held up.Because you can't engage in whatboutism to deflect form the topic at hand unless you have something to whatabout, about.
Some aren't bright enough to realize that or know but don't care.
Completely missed my point which is that I do not speak on behalf of the UK government, I speak on behalf of me. I have never mentioned the UK government.Clearly none of you get the point. It's not that you aren't allowed to criticize regimes, it's when you claim to hold the morale high ground with comments like 'ask etc etc who lives there how it is'.
The difference is also that in Germany, kids are taught about the atrocities by the Nazis in all details to the point that some people are saying that it's enough and that they shouldn't be guilt into it anymore. In the UK people still believe they were the 'modernizers' of those backward countries they ruled over and they are the prevayours of peace in the world. That continues this attitude that you are better than everyone else and dehumanizes the area where those atrocities by the British empire/government were commited.
Criticize all you want, I hate Saudi Arabia with a passion eventhough I'm Muslim. But then don't bring this nonsense about how you're better than them, because you haven't been and aren't.
What makes you the arbiter of distinguishing between what you’re saying is valid criticism and me saying I am better than the Saudis, or that my country (which you seem to assume is the UK or US for whatever reason) is better than Saudi Arabia? How do you even make the distinction?Clearly none of you get the point. It's not that you aren't allowed to criticize regimes, it's when you claim to hold the morale high ground with comments like 'ask etc etc who lives there how it is'.
The difference is also that in Germany, kids are taught about the atrocities by the Nazis in all details to the point that some people are saying that it's enough and that they shouldn't be guilt into it anymore. In the UK people still believe they were the 'modernizers' of those backward countries they ruled over and they are the prevayours of peace in the world. That continues this attitude that you are better than everyone else and dehumanizes the area where those atrocities by the British empire/government were commited.
Criticize all you want, I hate Saudi Arabia with a passion eventhough I'm Muslim. But then don't bring this nonsense about how you're better than them, because you haven't been and aren't.
He literally said in the first line that you can criticise he never said you couldn't that's not the point.What makes you the arbiter of distinguishing between what you’re saying is valid criticism and me saying I am better than the Saudis, or that my country (which you seem to assume is the UK or US for whatever reason) is better than Saudi Arabia? How do you even make the distinction?
Isn’t this silly nonsense applicable in any scenario? Name me one scenario where an entity criticizes another and an observer cannot simple say, “well, what makes you think you or your country are better?”
I guess human rights advocacy, journalism, activism, human rights diplomacy can all go feck themselves. No one is perfect so no one is in a position to criticize anything. Consider me enlightened. My country’s history means I should never do any activism against FGM, honour killings, death penalties for homosexuals, draconian discriminatory rules against women, or the role of Saudi in spreading extremism throughout the Middle East and Europe, or someone brazenly chopping up a journalist in broad daylight, in an embassy in another country.
For the record, I don’t see any issue with a German, even one whose dad was a Nazi, criticizing Saudi, or the US, or anything they want. The world is complex, there are a lot of issues out there that need voices and advocacy. If we are to wait for squeaky clean saints to advocate for them, nothing will ever be talked about or improved.
And those that believe that speak for the rest of us, do they? You do know there are still Germans who are white supremacists, I guess they represent everyone in Germany. I guess every Islamic terrorist speaks for every Muslim in the world too.The difference is also that in Germany, kids are taught about the atrocities by the Nazis in all details to the point that some people are saying that it's enough and that they shouldn't be guilt into it anymore. In the UK people still believe they were the 'modernizers' of those backward countries they ruled over and they are the prevayours of peace in the world. That continues this attitude that you are better than everyone else and dehumanizes the area where those atrocities by the British empire/government were commited.
Criticize all you want, I hate Saudi Arabia with a passion eventhough I'm Muslim. But then don't bring this nonsense about how you're better than them, because you haven't been and aren't.
Nope he is saying that to act superior and act like your place is somehow morally superior is silly especially if you are someone who lives in or supports a mature western society. As those societies have and continue to produce atrocities across the world and use countries they literally stole and now own to whitewash their own atrocities.And those that believe that speak for the rest of us, do they? You do know there are still Germans who are white supremacists, I guess they represent everyone in Germany. I guess every Islamic terrorist speaks for every Muslim in the world too.
Just using your standards, mate.
Brexit pretty much showed the true nature of the British attitude. The AfD got 10% of the seats in the recent election (down from the previous election, which was encouraging to see), that's very different to over 50% people voting for Brexit.And those that believe that speak for the rest of us, do they? You do know there are still Germans who are white supremacists, I guess they represent everyone in Germany. I guess every Islamic terrorist speaks for every Muslim in the world too.
Just using your standards, mate.
Exactly.Nope he is saying that to act superior and act like your place is somehow morally superior is silly especially if you are someone who lives in or supports a mature western society. As those societies have and continue to produce atrocities across the world and use countries they literally stole and now own to whitewash their own atrocities.
To act like the Saudis are now tainting the "English" premier league is a joke to anyone who knows what the UK has and continues to do in the world.
You just don’t get it, do you? If England, Germany, France, Spain, Uzbekistan, Cyprus or any other fecking country you can think of bought a PL football club, then you can knock yourself out educating us all on how terrible that country’s foreign policy is. That didn’t happen. Saudi Arabia bought Newcastle. Hence Saudi Arabia’s shocking history of human rights abuses is in the spotlight.Nope he is saying that to act superior and act like your place is somehow morally superior is silly especially if you are someone who lives in or supports a mature western society. As those societies have and continue to produce atrocities across the world and use countries they literally stole and now own to whitewash their own atrocities.
To act like the Saudis are now tainting the "English" premier league is a joke to anyone who knows what the UK has and continues to do in the world.
I suppose you don't see Scotland as a country with a very different political landscape compared to the rest of the UK. Interesting you completely ignored how we voted when it came to Brexit. I remember very well learning about the Highland clearances in school, the colonisation by Britain on the rest of the world. I specifically remember older relatives talking about what happened to our ancestors not only in Scotland but Ireland too.Brexit pretty much showed the true nature of the British attitude. The AfD got 10% of the seats in the recent election (down from the previous election, which was encouraging to see), that's very different to over 50% people voting for Brexit.
From all the discussion I've seen here in other threads and on British tv. There is little recognition of the atrocities the British empire did on the countries and the general perception is that they developed those countries from the backward cultures
Exactly.
This is correct.Why is this thread a pissing contest about the U.K. versus Saudi Arabia? Surely the point is the U.K. government don’t own a sodding football club as a propaganda tool? Newcastle now purely exist as a means of the Saudi state. To support them is to support that state. What atrocities the U.K. state have or haven’t done is sodding irrelevant. It’s not fecking hard.
Well said and I don't get the back-patting lark they're getting either. If I remember right, back in 2008 the same was said by many fans and probably myself when City got taken over. Now they are just unbearable. The novelty for feeling sorry for Newcastle and now happy for their fans will soon be forgotten when people realise it's their team under threat from their progression.This "long-suffering fans" bollox has surely got to stop now. Why is this narrative so pervasive when it comes to Newcastle fans? I've never got it at all. They're treated like fecking martyrs all the time because their team, what? Plays in the fecking Premier League. Oh, the horror of it. They happen to play it in one of the most elite leagues in the world in a 50,000+ seater stadium! The humanity of it all.
I don't get it with them. "Poor old Newcastle fans" Give me a break. They nearly won something about 100 years ago (slight exaggeration) and now what? They have the god-given right to be in the top four? Challenge for the League? Win a cup? Be in the Premier League at all? And now they're dancing in the streets and wearing bin Salman masks and waving Saudi flags and people are saying "oh they deserve this, the poor sods" They don't "deserve" feck all.
Hope the feckers get relegated.
Explain how they are not tainting the PL?Nope he is saying that to act superior and act like your place is somehow morally superior is silly especially if you are someone who lives in or supports a mature western society. As those societies have and continue to produce atrocities across the world and use countries they literally stole and now own to whitewash their own atrocities.
To act like the Saudis are now tainting the "English" premier league is a joke to anyone who knows what the UK has and continues to do in the world.
How sadOn a positive note to man utd fans- we have some promising youngsters in our reserves that are looking for a regular first team football.. we might loan them to you (without option to buy)