I’m still shocked by what happened. It’s so ridiculous
F1 2021 Season
- Thread starter pauldyson1uk
- Start date
Still confused why RBs arguments were heard in a protest between Mercedes and the FIA. Why not have Ferrari heard as well? Sainz was also influenced by that 'decision'.
No. If Hamilton pitted, either Max doesn’t put (stays ahead on oldish hards, probably a sitting duck like Hamilton was) or he puts and is also on new softs behind Hamilton. So Hamilton advantage again.
Verstappen is never a sitting duck though, especially if both crashing out nets him the title.
Last lap was clearly dominated by Max.
Perhaps, but the point I was making is that the rules categorically influenced strategy. If Merc knew it would pan out like this, there is no way they take this route vs the potential risk of pitting and track position behind Max but on fresher tyres. Surely?
Your guy won the championship dude, you are literally the worst type of fan. Smells of significant insecurity.Oh yeah, no doubt about it. They banked on the rules being applied. Silly, right?
If we take out personal opinions Mercedes won construtors championship so it's clear that they have better car.
Unless u want to go to Toto and tell him that actually according to Redcafe Red Bull had better car through the season and he have to give the trophy to them.
But nah cos Baku and Silverstone and Hungary innit
Again, so you think Newey is wrong?
Simple question you don't seem to be able to answer.
Might do...You misunderstood, that wasn't what the Mercs said, that is the line the FIA are taking
It has never happened like this in F1 history as far as I can tell, and despite claims to the contrary over some misreading the rules, the race director isn't supposed to make rules up on the spot in the name of sports entertainment. He governs the safety of the event, that's where he can step in and take control. In his own words, this wasn't about that, which is why Mercs have a strong case case if it goes to CAS.
Again, not that I think it'll go that far.
CAS have the jurisdiction to overturn field of play decisions and sporting results where:
“there is clear evidence that the officials acted in bad faith or with arbitrariness.”
As per CAS 2010/A/2090
Well if horner and alonso said it, two totally unbiased opinions, it must be true. Good one.
It could just mean they had a second driver who performed slightly less atrociously.
So, I still don't understand any of the logic behind yesterday's decision other than "we want drama, so let's make shite up and disregard the first 57 laps of the race"
Honestly - I didn't want Max to win - but can anyone who did please tell me why I'm wrong for thinking yesterday was a complete farce without pointing out past races/personal biases? Just based on yesterday alone.
Honestly - I didn't want Max to win - but can anyone who did please tell me why I'm wrong for thinking yesterday was a complete farce without pointing out past races/personal biases? Just based on yesterday alone.
Is this possible? Genuine question, but isnt the whole punishment/regulatory/intervenience system based on precedent?
Essentially the race director handed max the championship on the last lap and did it via a sub clause in the rules saying he can whatever he wants. Imagine that in football, just wouldn't happen. Previous races aren't really relevant in this instance.
But it's done. I hoped for a clean win for either driver but what we got was a mess. It's not really fair on either of them and mad max fans aside I think most people think the way it was done was very shite and quite bad for the sports integrity.
It looks like, doesn't it. But tbf to Newey u have to understand his bias since he designed the car.
But wasn't Bottas absolutely destroyed for his displays through the season while Perez was mostly praised? Infact Bottas is losing his seat in the car for next year because of those displays and Perez got contract extension.
If Hamilton had won yesterday, would he have been an undeserving champion?
Fully agree on this, I think everyone does. Max was extremely lucky yesterday and Lewis extremely unlucky, he literally drove an absolute perfect race.
What goes too far for me is the claim that Max doesnt deserve the Championship because of the way things had their course yesterday. The Championship is earned over the course of the year and Max had as much claim to the title as Lewis. Its just very shitty for Max, for Lewis, for the sport in general that the decisive moment is tainted by such controversy..
But the problem is no one had any idea how long Latifi would take to move. At the moment he did Mercedes knew there was a chance you would end up with 1 lap of racing, they just didn’t know it would be contrived like it was. Lewis swore down the radio like never before the moment SC was deployed as he knew they couldn’t pit and he was screwed on any sort of restart.
Ironically despite Red Bulls’ recent whinging they seemed to be quicker on the straights and Max would’ve had a better chance at keeping Lewis behind than vice versa. Perez managed it on completely shot softs for a lap. Max’s hards would’ve been less than 20 laps old once you include a few laps of VSC and SC running, all done when the car is at its lightest too. Lewis’ were over 40. I still don’t think Mercedes would pit if they were faced with the same scenario again
No surprise that Mercedes have appealed that decision. Even looking at that full Clause 15.3, the overriding sentence appears to be in relation to the race director working in consultation with the clerk. With the Race director overriding the Clerk. It doesn't give any power that I can see which gives the race director any ability to modify the other rules. The whole situation is a mess, that should have been avoided. I'd imagine this will end up with CAS.
Though even then I don't see a change in champion, however can see Masi getting removed and a lot of behind the scenes money/influence being given to Mercedes to let the issue go.
Though even then I don't see a change in champion, however can see Masi getting removed and a lot of behind the scenes money/influence being given to Mercedes to let the issue go.
Well if you were to be fair, not that you have been in here of course, you could then see why people have a different opinion. The actual designer has said on balance he thinks they built the better car, but Jerch on Redcafe thinks he's wrong.
Who's claiming that? Some of you keep repeating people in here are claiming Max doesn't deserve it, but I can't remember seeing anyone actually arguing that. Might be wrong though, as I've not really read some of the more ranting posts.
But what precedent is there here?
None. It's never happened before. The bigger problem is it now sets a precedent that further pushes the F1 away from being a sport.
if Red Bull didn't use Perez as their own personal Hamilton blocker all season, he'd have had a lot more points.
completely compromised his race today, then when he's on for a 3rd place they make him RETIRE his car for no reason other than to get out the way
they've done this many times this season, no wonder he's hardly got any points.
Yeah completely agree. Both have been brilliant all year. Very frustrating ending.
Ive read it on here a couple times and also on other media, but Im also sure a lot of people dont necessarily argue that..
Yep, this us what I've been saying. I don't it even gets to CAS. It'll all go away, the Max fanboys will claim it was right all along and then moan next season when the Mercs get even more unusual decisions than ever
Fair point haha, given the circumstances their is little exact precendence..
I'll take your word for it I guess, unless you can point to any posts?
I've seen people say Max SHOULDN'T have won, which of course is a fair opinion to hold, but no one outright claim he doesn't deserve the championship as a whole. Though it wouldn't surprise me mate, you know what this thread is like
Outside of the title and who won, it is a shocker for F1 as a whole. It's a shambolic end to a shambolic season, right when they were beginning to gain traction again. The FIA are a joke and they are holding motorsports back.
But I guess they want a race to the bottom. Get more fanboys arguing on the net, more TV viewers (although they desperately need that anyway) and they can line their pockets. It has always been a money driven and corrupt "sport', but this new low actually serves those in charge I guess.
It's such a shame too, as both Max and Lewis have once again been outstanding. Both worthy champions as they are so far ahead of the rest of the pack on pure talent. Both massive pricks of course, but you can't take away the talent.
Nobody is saying Max wouldn't be a worthy winner if he got in the lead and won like a normal race, you'd say congratulations.
Lets be completely honest the way he won it is a farce. He had all but given up, and suddenly he ends up with brand new soft tyres against a guy with 40 lap hard tyres
you really couldn't make it up. Anyway, that isn't max's fault either - it's more the FIA being a complete shitshow (Masi in particular)
If they really wanted a showpiece showdown then red flag the damn race with 4/5 laps to go and let them fight it out fairly.
Bit of a nonsense how this all ended. Clearly Hamilton was robbed yesterday - it's meant to be a sport, but the "rules" are so vague that they can just be interpreted any which way you want. It's massively open to corruption or (far more likely) incompetence.
All drivers have good and bad luck throughout a season, but this race had nothing to do with luck - a man in a room engineered a one-sided "final lap showdown". It doesn't sit right at all. You have a great season spoiled by some plonkers who think they've got the right to create artificial excitement.
If Lewis or Max wins the final race by 50 seconds and it's ultimately a letdown for the viewer then so be it - that's sport. We've all suffered through 0-0 finals - they're shite - it's fine.
All drivers have good and bad luck throughout a season, but this race had nothing to do with luck - a man in a room engineered a one-sided "final lap showdown". It doesn't sit right at all. You have a great season spoiled by some plonkers who think they've got the right to create artificial excitement.
If Lewis or Max wins the final race by 50 seconds and it's ultimately a letdown for the viewer then so be it - that's sport. We've all suffered through 0-0 finals - they're shite - it's fine.
Yeah, I guess that's what I'm saying in a roundabout way. Where was the precedent or justification in having the race finish that way yesterday? And knowing I have my biases, can someone who either supports Max or is unbiased justify how Max was allowed to be in the position he was to win?
The fact it is seemingly utterly without precedent/full of inconsistencies makes me think it was totally made up to get a grandstand finish which disregarded the entire race up until that point.
Erm, no, his engine was close to failing. He said so himself. He wasn't in the way at all since he was behind Max, and if all lapped cars would have gone he could have even stopped the likes of Sainz from attacking Max. Perez has had a mixed bag of a season. Yes, they used him to block Mercedes just like Mercedes have done with Bottas at times. Though Bottas isn't that good at it. That's just the nature of being the second driver I'm afraid. But there have also been many races where he was simply off the pace and ultimately that's what cost them the constructors' (along with the DNFs) not them using him to block Hamilton.if Red Bull didn't use Perez as their own personal Hamilton blocker all season, he'd have had a lot more points.
completely compromised his race today, then when he's on for a 3rd place they make him RETIRE his car for no reason other than to get out the way
they've done this many times this season, no wonder he's hardly got any points.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
The only thing I’d add to this is that through a season racing incidents happen. Max had more bad luck in the incidents, a tyre blow out and then the Bottas crash. Silverstone and Monza are incidents that both could have been avoided quite frankly, and Max would have eased to the title if he hadn’t been so stubborn. We saw that with how Hamilton handled him charging up the inside multiple times.
Personally I feel there’s a difference between racing incidents and bullshit from the FIA. Spa was more of a joke than any incident we saw on the track and then obviously we had yesterday. They are massive moments handled poorly by the FIA benefiting Max, so it’s really off putting to see him moan about decisions before yesterdays race.
Must be the only one saying so.
I really think that Mercedes will have a good case if they want to go through with this but I just think that in the long run as a business it’s harmful to ruin the image of f1. So tough decision for them in terms of this title vs the long term