F1 2021 Season

mitChley

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You do remember that Max actually had road left to drive into in Silverstone? If Max would haven driven like Lewis does whenever Max "doesn't make a corner" he would have been more than fine.
Lewis had tarmac to go over in Brazil, Silverstone had gravel if memory serves right. Max couldn't have driven like Lewis did without ending up in it.

I'm just enjoying all the Lewis fanboys claim everyone is a Max fanboy, and vice versa. For all I care both could never win a race again. Plenty of drivers on the grid I think have personalities and driving styles I prefer more.
 

RobinLFC

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I'm pretty sure he will not DNF both but it will be definitely elbows out which is only logical in title decider.

And about people not liking Max. Driver of the day voting really showed how disliked he is. Delusional if u think he lost more fans this season than he gained.
People have already made their minds up about him, if you liked him before yesterday nothing will have changed, if you disliked him you'll only dislike him more today.

Oh and please don't call someone delusional just for having a different opinion than yours.
 

11101

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Lewis had tarmac to go over in Brazil, Silverstone had gravel if memory serves right. Max couldn't have driven like Lewis did without ending up in it.

I'm just enjoying all the Lewis fanboys claim everyone is a Max fanboy, and vice versa. For all I care both could never win a race again. Plenty of drivers on the grid I think have personalities and driving styles I prefer more.
If you remember in Silverstone two things were different than Brazil. Hamilton was trying to turn into the corner, and Max did not try to avoid him. In Brazil you could see Max unwind the steering to force Hamilton wide whilst Hamilton knew what was coming and got out of the way.
 

Jerch

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People have already made their minds up about him, if you liked him before yesterday nothing will have changed, if you disliked him you'll only dislike him more today.

Oh and please don't call someone delusional just for having a different opinion than yours.
U called a driver who have just won driver of the day, which is "popularity contest", unpopular.
In matter of fact, this season Max was infront of Lewis 13 times in driver of the day vote and lewis was 7 times infront of Max so it is clear who is more popular of the two.
 

KirkDuyt

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U called a driver who have just won driver of the day, which is "popularity contest", unpopular.
In matter of fact, this season Max was infront of Lewis 13 times in driver of the day vote and lewis was 7 times infront of Max so it is clear who is more popular of the two.
I think that's also down to people wanting some drama and not the same dude winning 28 years in a row.
 

altodevil

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Looking at the telemetry - does seem Max slowed excessively for a brief moment. This was dangerous. I wouldn't go as far to say it was brake testing, especially as we know the DRS detection zone was the key point for both drivers. That said, a penalty was needed for it.

Hamilton not overtaking to be better positioned for the DRS detection point was fair enough as well. It was a situation massively exacerbated because of that.
 

Jerch

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If you remember in Silverstone two things were different than Brazil. Hamilton was trying to turn into the corner, and Max did not try to avoid him. In Brazil you could see Max unwind the steering to force Hamilton wide whilst Hamilton knew what was coming and got out of the way.
Hamilton did not turn into a corner as he should and missed chicane by quite a margain. And he was given penalty because of it.
 

RobinLFC

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U called a driver who have just won driver of the day, which is "popularity contest", unpopular.
In matter of fact, this season Max was infront of Lewis 13 times in driver of the day vote and lewis was 7 times infront of Max so it is clear who is more popular of the two.
I said I knew people who disliked him. If you rephrase that into me saying "Verstappen is unpopular, period", then that's not my fault.

And basing yourself on the vote is also ridiculous in itself, it's only the most devout fans who are actually taking part in such voting stuff. But hey I read a poll on Twitter last night that said Salah should've won the Ballon d'Or so he must be more popular worldwide than Messi.
 

wattsy7

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1st restart incident: Max having to give the place up was the correct decision.

2nd incident: I didn’t think was a penalty for Max, I would put that one down to hard racing.

3rd incident: Max was silly and the penalty points are fully deserved, but he shouldn’t have had to give the place up at all anyway.

Takeaways from the grand prix are that they need to stop giving penalties out so easily, they need to not allow tyre changes during a red flag & they need to create a rule that says you are not allowed to give a place up when instructed to do so within a certain distance of the drs zone.
 

11101

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Hamilton did not turn into a corner as he should and missed chicane by quite a margain. And he was given penalty because of it.
Exactly. Hamilton made a mistake. Max did it intentionally. There's the difference, in truth the difference between Max and the rest of the grid.
 
Fantasy League standings

pauldyson1uk

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One last race to go and the Fantasy League is all but wrapped up
Toyoda has a 23.5 lead, dont see ChaddyP catching him up.

EDIT , just noticed this has not been updated yet, so this is with 2 races left.


1st
venkman​
2007.5​
X
2nd
chaddyp​
1982.0​
X
3rd
senorgregster​
1926.5​
X
4th
impulse​
1876.5​
X
5th
manoucha​
1870.0​
X
6th
mtf​
1869.5​
X
7th
emm​
EMM
1843.5​
X
8th
vangagal​
1739.5​
X
9th
pauldyson1uk​
1726.5​
X
10th
christy87​
1718.5​
X
11th
coleworld​
1717.5​
X
12th
leg-end7​
1682.5​
X
13th
tiber​
1648.5​
X
14th
jtw95​
1636.5​
X
15th
dargonk​
1581.5​
X
16th
f-red​
1504.0​
X
17th
20solskjaer​
1448.0​
X
18th
dpansheth​
Rock
1310.5​
X
 

Jerch

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1st restart incident: Max having to give the place up was the correct decision.

2nd incident: I didn’t think was a penalty for Max, I would put that one down to hard racing.

3rd incident: Max was silly and the penalty points are fully deserved, but he shouldn’t have had to give the place up at all anyway.

Takeaways from the grand prix are that they need to stop giving penalties out so easily, they need to not allow tyre changes during a red flag & they need to create a rule that says you are not allowed to give a place up when instructed to do so within a certain distance of the drs zone.
TBF I am advocating Max a lot but second incident is a penalty. As it should be the one in Brazil. If driver is overtaking u u have to make the corner in order to legitimately defend it as should the car who is overtaking. U can defend as hard as u want but if u make a mistake in doing so and run wide it's a penalty. Otherwise there is dangerous precedence on how to defend the corner and they luckily corrected mistake from Brazil in this race.

But yeah media (british media to be exact) and especially people on this forum is overblowing whole thing into completely different thing than racing on the edge and missing the corner because of it. There is a difference between fighting hard and doing a mistake like that and purposely dangerous driving.
 

Jerch

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Exactly. Hamilton made a mistake. Max did it intentionally. There's the difference, in truth the difference between Max and the rest of the grid.
I would very much argue that it is other way around.
 

Gringo

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I'm iffy about the 2nd restart. Why should Ocon benefit from Maxs daft driving. Lewis would have been ahead of the whole pack.
 

RepardReece

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Lewis had tarmac to go over in Brazil, Silverstone had gravel if memory serves right. Max couldn't have driven like Lewis did without ending up in it.

I'm just enjoying all the Lewis fanboys claim everyone is a Max fanboy, and vice versa. For all I care both could never win a race again. Plenty of drivers on the grid I think have personalities and driving styles I prefer more.
Slight delusion you have there not going to lie.

Silverstone had gravel but also had tarmac beforehand. Check your facts before you say such crap. And Verstappen had plenty of room to his left anyway, both at fault in Silverstone, edging towards Lewis to blame as he wasn't ahead coming into the corner.
 

slyadams

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TBF I am advocating Max a lot but second incident is a penalty. As it should be the one in Brazil. If driver is overtaking u u have to make the corner in order to legitimately defend it as should the car who is overtaking. U can defend as hard as u want but if u make a mistake in doing so and run wide it's a penalty. Otherwise there is dangerous precedence on how to defend the corner and they luckily corrected mistake from Brazil in this race.

But yeah media (british media to be exact) and especially people on this forum is overblowing whole thing into completely different thing than racing on the edge and missing the corner because of it. There is a difference between fighting hard and doing a mistake like that and purposely dangerous driving.
People are calling the brake test dangerous. Max's corner antics are just dirty, but not necessarily dangerous.
 

11101

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I would very much argue that it is other way around.
You can easily see what happens from telemetry and onboard footage what happened.

Silverstone - Hamilton runs wide but is on full lock the whole way trying to get the nose in. Max doesn't alter his course to avoid him.
Brazil - Max unwinds the steering to make sure he runs wide. Hamilton goes wide to avoid him.

They are polar opposites. To be honest they are both things that can happen in the course of a race when the cars are this quick.

The brake test, that's the big one and a disqualification for me. Unnecessary, intentional and extremely dangerous.
 

telstar96

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What are everyone's thoughts on the Jeddah Circuit?

For me the nature of the circuit and the incompetence of the FIA led to an exciting but farcical race. Constant stoppages and VSCs ruined any flow to the race. We never had a true battle between the leaders and when we did on lap 37, Max gained an advantage off track. Not rocket science for the FIA to communicate clearly that Max has to give the place to Lewis, but the terrible communication by the FIA that followed led to a ridiculous and potentially dangerous situation at turn 27. If the FIA did their job properly we would be sparred having to argue over post-race penalties. Even the 5 seconds, if Max gives the position is there a need for that penalty? Very confusing, feels like they're going off the cuff with some of the decisions.

One positive to take from the race is that Lewis P1 Max P2, means we're going to have an epic title showdown on Sunday! For the neutral, it's probably the best result you could've asked for in this race, considering that they are level on points now.
 

Adam-Utd

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Looking at the telemetry - does seem Max slowed excessively for a brief moment. This was dangerous. I wouldn't go as far to say it was brake testing, especially as we know the DRS detection zone was the key point for both drivers. That said, a penalty was needed for it.

Hamilton not overtaking to be better positioned for the DRS detection point was fair enough as well. It was a situation massively exacerbated because of that.
He went from 60mph to 10mph. It's a brake check clear and simple, the data doesn't lie.

He either did it in a panic because of the DRS line coming up and expects Hamilton to be able to go around him, or he did it on purpose to try and break his wing.

Either way this all stems from him trying to do it "strategically" which should now be outlawed. They either need to do it on an exit of a corner at slower speeds, not just before the DRS line.
 

Jerch

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People are calling the brake test dangerous. Max's corner antics are just dirty, but not necessarily dangerous.
You can easily see what happens from telemetry and onboard footage what happened.

Silverstone - Hamilton runs wide but is on full lock the whole way trying to get the nose in. Max doesn't alter his course to avoid him.
Brazil - Max unwinds the steering to make sure he runs wide. Hamilton goes wide to avoid him.

They are polar opposites. To be honest they are both things that can happen in the course of a race when the cars are this quick.

The brake test, that's the big one and a disqualification for me. Unnecessary, intentional and extremely dangerous.
I don't think Max was break testing him. Basically it was feck up by FIA which should tell chasing car first and then Max but they couldn't reach Merc because they were complaining about the situation on the radio. Max saw that DRS line is very close and slowed down even more and Lewis probably thought that he is giving him position on his own just to take it back imidiately to avoid a penalty and didn't went by. If Hamilton would know that Max was instructed to give up the position that crash never happens.
 

wattsy7

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TBF I am advocating Max a lot but second incident is a penalty. As it should be the one in Brazil. If driver is overtaking u u have to make the corner in order to legitimately defend it as should the car who is overtaking. U can defend as hard as u want but if u make a mistake in doing so and run wide it's a penalty. Otherwise there is dangerous precedence on how to defend the corner and they luckily corrected mistake from Brazil in this race.

But yeah media (british media to be exact) and especially people on this forum is overblowing whole thing into completely different thing than racing on the edge and missing the corner because of it. There is a difference between fighting hard and doing a mistake like that and purposely dangerous driving.
I prefer Lewis & hope he wins the championship, I just dislike how overzealous race control can be.
 

Jerch

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He went from 60mph to 10mph. It's a brake check clear and simple, the data doesn't lie.

He either did it in a panic because of the DRS line coming up and expects Hamilton to be able to go around him, or he did it on purpose to try and break his wing.

Either way this all stems from him trying to do it "strategically" which should now be outlawed. They either need to do it on an exit of a corner at slower speeds, not just before the DRS line.
Well if it is the first it's not brake check is it? And I am confident that happened.

About being outlawed i totally agree. Basically disable DRS for both cars which have to switch positions and u are done.
 

mitChley

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Slight delusion you have there not going to lie.

Silverstone had gravel but also had tarmac beforehand. Check your facts before you say such crap. And Verstappen had plenty of room to his left anyway, both at fault in Silverstone, edging towards Lewis to blame as he wasn't ahead coming into the corner.
Calm down, as I said " if memory serves right". To busy to go back and check footage just so Lewis/Max fans don't get too upset :lol:
 

Jerch

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I prefer Lewis & hope he wins the championship, I just dislike how overzealous race control can be.
Yeah it's very much annoying I agree, but "let them race" can have worse outcomes than losing DWC. Rules should be there to keep drivers safe and running cars out of the track shouldn't be allowed.

Edit: and it shouldn't matter if u drive someone of intentionally or by mistake because that just open a debate and room for inconsistent decisions.
 

RepardReece

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I don't think Max was break testing him. Basically it was feck up by FIA which should tell chasing car first and then Max but they couldn't reach Merc because they were complaining about the situation on the radio. Max saw that DRS line is very close and slowed down even more and Lewis probably thought that he is giving him position on his own just to take it back imidiately to avoid a penalty and didn't went by. If Hamilton would know that Max was instructed to give up the position that crash never happens.
It's definitely a total mess, and the blame lies in the communication for the contact, but that was a brake test. Look at the data and even listen to his engine.

Already posted but here:

 
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Abizzz

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Lewis had tarmac to go over in Brazil, Silverstone had gravel if memory serves right. Max couldn't have driven like Lewis did without ending up in it.

I'm just enjoying all the Lewis fanboys claim everyone is a Max fanboy, and vice versa. For all I care both could never win a race again. Plenty of drivers on the grid I think have personalities and driving styles I prefer more.
There was plenty of tarmac left for Max in Silverstone.
 

Balljy

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Well if it is the first it's not brake check is it? And I am confident that happened.

About being outlawed i totally agree. Basically disable DRS for both cars which have to switch positions and u are done.
That would be a good rule change - no DRS for 30 seconds when a car is told to give a position back. The only complication might be if they already have DRS from a backmarker, but you could say no DRS for the car in front at all until they allow the second car through as it would force them to make the switch quicker.
 

F-Red

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1st restart incident: Max having to give the place up was the correct decision.

2nd incident: I didn’t think was a penalty for Max, I would put that one down to hard racing.

3rd incident: Max was silly and the penalty points are fully deserved, but he shouldn’t have had to give the place up at all anyway.

Takeaways from the grand prix are that they need to stop giving penalties out so easily, they need to not allow tyre changes during a red flag & they need to create a rule that says you are not allowed to give a place up when instructed to do so within a certain distance of the drs zone.
This regulation is always going to be tricky, if someone has a puncture on a red flag lap are they going to force the driver/team to a standing start where it's unsafe? I actually think the regulation, whilst not the most exciting one, is the most safe for the race and keeps the red flag order to a neutralised position to a degree. Certainly isn't popular, but I can't see it working any other way at the moment.
 

Zlatan 7

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Being able to wait for a DRS zone to give a position back and then using DRS to claim position instantly back is laughably bad, it needs changing [
 

ArjenIsM3

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Being able to wait for a DRS zone to give a position back and then using DRS to claim position instantly back is laughably bad, it needs changing [
It's not allowed as it is I think. But there's no way to know if Max would have succeeded if he tried, especially considering the Merc is the faster car and Max had worse tyres so probably wouldn't be able to outbrake Lewis in T1. If Lewis had gotten the message that he was being let past earlier and just got on with it at full speed there would have been a gap between him and Max anyway. Max would probably be on Lewis' arse for a lap or so (which he was before the incident too so that's hardly unfair) before Lewis would drive off into the sunset as he did at the end anyway due to his better tyres.

The (lacking) communication from the stewards on this matter definitely needs looking at. I don't think this would have happened if Max and Lewis had been told to switch positions at the same time. Not the first time communications from the stewards has been lacking either. For example the past few races we've seen a lot of incidents with yellow flag situations where the lights weren't working and the drivers didn't get any warning on their steering wheels too. Or in Lewis' case a light went on when it shouldn't have or something. These are systems that are essential to a safe racing environment.
 
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Being able to wait for a DRS zone to give a position back and then using DRS to claim position instantly back is laughably bad, it needs changing [
Definitely. Needs some kind of amendment to that rule

Not sure what. Must remain behind until the end of the next DRS zone following position swap

The red flag rule re changing tyres seems a dodgy one as well. Not clear though really on how you change that, it’s right for safety reasons that damaged wings etc get changed. But tyres seems to become too much of a crapshoot. Equally if you say they can’t change tyres the bunched start pushes someone even further back, so they go from lucky to unlucky.

But feels like it could take an amendment of sorts. Maybe a time penalty of some description to equate to the pit stop length less the impact of the now bunched pack. Tricky.
 

Fluctuation0161

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he reminds me more and more of trump. a man who sees no fault in himself, only fault with others. a man who feels he can say and do what he wants and all others should just let it happen or get over it. a man who is never wrong. when there is no defence the whataboutisms start to fly, there is never a backwards step, never a pause to say i didn’t meet the expectations i set of myself today. it’s not something i’d expect him to do in public, f1 isn’t like that. i get why the team back him too. that’s good management, back him in public, bollock him in private. but it’s clear the bollocking just isn’t happening. he’s doing to same shit time after time, race after race. the same sound bites time after time, race after race. i truly believe he truly believes he has done nothing wrong in every single incident he has ever been a part of. it’s all “just racing” and if you don’t understand that it’s because you don’t understand racing. and to some degree, he’s right. he knows far more about f1 than i do. i know far more about spotting entitled, know it all pricks in their echo chambers than he does though. he’s just a trump, a life of entitlement, a life of always having a safety net, a life of not truly understanding what others have to go through, a life of thinking he always knows best and is always right. a life of feeling superior to everyone else. a life of thinking the world is against him, even though he’s has every advantage thrown his way. a life of not caring who he treads on as long as it gets him to the top. he’s just a spoilt brat.

i can’t say i’m surprised by that. he is supported by rabid fanbase who root for him no matter what (driver of the day, though to be fair to him, he did pull the move of the day.) a fanbase who believe wild conspiracies are in place to stop him getting to the top, even though he’s been treated with far more leniency than most. a fanbase who think he’s some kind of messiah, even though he is the embodiment of some of the worst aspects of f1. most f1 drivers are entitled pricks who truly believe they are the best in the world. that truly believe the only thing that is holding them back is a poor engine/team/stewardship of races. most of them also start to mellow when they get a bit older and wiser. most of them start out jumping into gaps that aren’t there because they can’t believe other, more experienced drivers wouldn’t put their car there. most have collision after collision as a result. they eventually learn 3 points are better than no points. inexplicably, max continues to do the same shit, warning after warning, collision after collision penalty after penalty. it’s almost a rite of passage that max doesn’t think he needs to finish walking through.

i just don’t see where max is learning anything. it’s just the same record played race after race. the only difference nowadays is other racers think for him and get out of his way, in his early days they assumed he’d have more duty of care and were surprised to find a car in their side moments later. max never yields. you let him overtake or you crash, you don’t take evasive action and you crash. it’s the same as just ploughing head on into someone driving on your side of the road because you had right of way, even if you had time to get over and avoid an accident. i don’t think he’s left any benefit of doubt now, he’s just a piece of shit.

and i’m not surprised by that. he has a narcissistic piece of shit father who is with him every step of the way. he’s surrounded by piece of shit bosses who follow the same idols of never criticising him and only enabling him. it’s a shame he’s talented. i honestly have no idea why he’s deified by the same people who vilify mazepin. they’re literal caricatures of each other, minus the speed and a few zeros in daddy’s bank account.

he seems to cut an increasingly isolated figure around the paddock, there doesn’t seem to be much chemistry between him and any of his teammates, past or present, or any of the other drivers or teams. there doesn’t even seem to be much begrudging respect. i never see him walking around the paddock making time to say hello or speak to other teams. he probably assumes they should be approaching him and don’t because they are all insanely jealous of him and how fast he is, rather than just because they think he’s a twat. the paddock is a sea of pricks with superiority complexes and egos to match. to not be able to find some common ground among them is a little worrying. the voices of the other drivers defending him seem to get quieter and quieter. it could be that all this is happening away from the cameras or i’ve just missed it completely, but i can’t recall as single moment of it. maybe he wasn’t always like that, maybe just fighting for the title for a few years has broken him. he just comes across as a weird guy, void of any charisma. it’s like all his f1 career personality points went on driving ability and every other aspect of his being was ignored.

i hated the schumacher years, i hated the vettel years. admittedly, the hamilton years are slightly more palatable as he is british, he brings some diversity to the rich daddy’s boy playground, he has a good backstory, and latterly, is trying to use his platform to bring about change (more than a little ironically at any given moment.) i’d still rather someone else won it, at least occasionally. utter domination isn’t good for any sport. however i’d rather see hamilton dominate for another 20 years than have verstappen win one wdc whilst behaving like this as it would only further legitimise his actions in his own mind. there would be somehow even less contrition for things that happened in future.

i’ve completely jumped the fence with regards to max. i have gone from hoping he’d reign it in and fulfil his talent to now being relieved if he never won another race. if both retired tomorrow, the sport would miss hamilton way more than verstappen. the next entitled daddy’s prick would roll off the wagon and the likes of gasly, le clerc and norris would provide the speed and drama. max is beginning to detract from the sport race after race now. every break between races is dominated by people debating his actions in the previous race. hamilton is at least wearing some killer clothes to race weekends and trying to bring about social change. one thing is for sure, max needs to change.

if max wins next week, it will be a testament to his driving ability and he does deserve to win the wdc for that but when all is said and done, he’ll be remembered for being that bloke that was fast and not a lot else. but to be fair to him, he seems like he’s ok with that.
Wow. This pretty much sums up my thoughts on Max exactly.
 

Leg-End

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I'm still not over Max and Red Bull's laughable attitude post race and somehow trying portray themselves as victims. They will be insufferable if Max wins this.
 

Adam-Utd

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Well if it is the first it's not brake check is it? And I am confident that happened.

About being outlawed i totally agree. Basically disable DRS for both cars which have to switch positions and u are done.
What else is slamming your foot on the brake with somebody else behind you called? Whether it was intentional or not he still did it.
 

F-Red

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What else is slamming your foot on the brake with somebody else behind you called? Whether it was intentional or not he still did it.
There's not many (if at all) scenarios where applying that level of force on the brakes is a good thing for a driver unless they were trying to wrong foot the car behind or cause damage. Even on this scenario, Max would have been further behind if the intent was to let Hamilton through to retake a place, you'd want to be doing it at speed so you don't lose or create a time gap to the car in front, rather than applying such a significant level of force on the brakes. The action taken wasn't a scenario where an experienced driver would take if they wanted to give a place back and retake quickly.
 

dinostar77

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I'm still not over Max and Red Bull's laughable attitude post race and somehow trying portray themselves as victims. They will be insufferable if Max wins this.
Max will win this at the first corner of Abu Dhabi by deliberately driving himself and lewis off track into a crash and win the championship on count back.
 

wattsy7

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Mar 11, 2015
Messages
209
How has everyone seen all the Max/Lewis incidents so far & what punishment would you have given?

Here’s my takes:
Romagna: No penalty
Spain: No penalty
Silverstone: 10 sec pen for HAM
Monza: 10 sec pen in next race for VER (He got a 3 place grid drop but it was fecking pointless because he just took a new engine, another rule which needs looking at)
Brazil: No penalty
Saudi: Hand place back for 1st restart incident, no penalty on 2nd incident, 10 sec pen for VER for the arse shunt.

Don’t think i’ve missed any other incidents between the two this season.

Holy feck next weekend is going to be good, come on Lewis.
 
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