that’s exactly how i feel. it’s a combination of nature and nurture leading us to where we are now. he hasn’t changed at all from those early days, it’s just others know it and adjust. if he was in a shittier car or less talented and back in the pack, he’d be out of nearly every race just chucking the car into a corner and saying it’s his bit of track, deal with it. not sure how anyone can have much more patience with him after so many races and so many of the same incidents.
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that’s exactly how i feel. it’s a combination of nature and nurture leading us to where we are now. he hasn’t changed at all from those early days, it’s just others know it and adjust. if he was in a shittier car or less talented and back in the pack, he’d be out of nearly every race just chucking the car into a corner and saying it’s his bit of track, deal with it. not sure how anyone can have much more patience with him after so many races and so many of the same incidents.
Christ. This is getting close to wumming now from the two of you. Again, I'm not condoning anything Max did, and I already brought up some of these things before Max even did anything wrong. This is not about Max and it certainly isn't some contest of who was more wrong because it's obvious who'd win that isn't it? I'm trying to discuss something other than the obvious incidents here but apparently that's not allowed by Mercedes' pitbulls on here.
Oh I get that Max is being talked about and I have no issue with that but that doesn't mean that you can't talk about anything else does it? As I said I'm not trying to start a contest of who's crossed the line the most here. Though saying Max got away with it is a bit of a stretch in my opinion when he received the standard penalties for everything he did (give position back, 5s penalty, 10s penalty, two points on his licence). Just because he didn't lose the position doesn't mean he got away with it.
Nice idea, but seriously it was never going to happen. I've watched F1 for over 30 years, and I've never seen that scenario fall any differently to what it did.
A technical infringement is quite the difference to a sporting one. The latter is open to more interpretation, the technical one is pretty black and white. Not the comparison to make here.
If you think F1 died when Bernie sold it then you're naive. It was dying under him.
The consistency of the application rules needs a review, I agree on that much.
Perhaps, at the end. They mightbe as good as Bernie was at 85+. However the only thing that's improved since his sale is it's presence on youtube.
The rest is complete bullocks. Races like Spa, tracks like yesterday, tracks that aren't rubbered in. In race decisions by the stewards that make football referees look competent (and remember they're literally sitting in an armchair). I think i'm done with it when Lewis is. Never mind that there'll never be another Murray Walker, they can't even find a Roy Keane or Neville to talk about it. Listen in on some of the Walker&Hunt comentaries on youtube. They would have ripped Max 3 new holes by now.
So have I, and there’s never really been a similar scenario to compare to.
there’s a driver taking it past the limits and driving recklessly on equal points to their rival and to me has been clear he’s playing a make room for me or we both crash out game for the last few races, I think it should have been checked before the final race to atleast ensure we get a race.
You're right, other things can be talked about, but I'm just pointing out that Max is the big talking point, it's the full focus currently.
Yeah at the end of the day, he did receive a "penalty" there's no arguing that, although a penalty that has no impact at all isn't really a penalty if you ask me. My issue lies with the fact anyway that he's probably going to continue to be overly aggressive next week too. If Hamilton sets the pace in practice and qualifying, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they collide and both end with a DNF.
Funny reading how Max is over the line with his driving given he was taken out by Merc driver 3 times this season and he took out 1 Merc.
Delusion on this forum is incredible really.
Delusion on this forum is incredible really.
Your original post opening up the 'other topics' was:
To me it seems quite clear you're trying to deflect or draw equivilancies, and you're going to be called out on that.
a fair comment I would say,
Well only because he didn't manage to hit Lewis on 4 separate tries now.
So you're saying because he was taken out in previous races, he is entitled to drive dangerously? Get a grip. Also, if Lewis didn't back out each time he would be in the lead of your stupid scoreboard.
He is driving on the edge but not dangerously. Only time they made contact it was as much Hamilton's fault as it was Max's. Both were trying to get DRS and massively slowed down before contact/brake check.
People seem to ignore the fact that in last 3 races Hamilton have much faster car so Max is driving on the edge all the time. When Hamilton was trying to get pass him it was obvious that both braked to late, Max's back jumped out and he missed the corner because he had to correct it. Everybody seems to ignore that Hamilton also breaked to late and miss the corner.
There are 2 options for Max. Thrown WC out of the window and drive safe or try to fight and drive to absolutely maximum of car's and his capabilities.
If he wouldn't be driving to his maximum capability we wouldn't have title fight at all.
I agree, the penalty didn't really have much of an impact, but they rarely do for Lewis and Max because nobody can get near them. The difference in pace between them and the rest of the pack is so big they can take 10s penalties without issue most of the time. Lewis at Silverstone is another example of that. And in other cases like Bottas' torpedo move where he took out several cars including both Red Bulls while it was of course bad news for him and he did get punished, the punishment hardly stacked up to the damage he did with the move or the advantage it gave Mercedes in the end. That's just how it is I'm afraid.
We'll see how it goes next week. I expect Mercedes to be quicker once again as it's clear they have a far superior package at this point and the track has been modified in their advantage (less low speed stuff) so we'll see how Max and Red Bull take the hit. Hopefully everybody keeps their cool and we'll see a fair race.
Lewis wasn't told he could pass Max so I really doubt he was trying to avoid DRS. In his mind, Max could've been slowing for a crash ahead that lewis was unaware of. Most of the blame goes to Max, he was the one who aggressively brake checked Hamilton.
It's funny how you mention that, "driving on the edge", makes it even funnier when Max managed to make the corner every time bar when Lewis was about to overtake. He does it on purpose to keep the position, it's clearly not accidental as he's done it every time in the last few races. And which lap are you talking about where Hamilton missed the corner, lap 37? He missed it due to avoiding contact with Max, if he turned in to make the corner, he would've hit max's car. You can literally see his car stop turning for a split second.
Sorry but that's nonsense. His overtaking business and pushing people off the track is on the edge, brake checking at speed is incredibly dangerous. Not giving a meaningful penalty for that sends the message he can virtually ram a car off the track in Abu Dhabi if he wants to. The fact that everybody expects him to do just that says everything about his driving.
Yeah really strange that he make it every other lap other the one when he was defending and have to brake even later on not ideal line. i agree totally not understandable.
And the second point. No he wouldn't make it.
As I said before. This forum isdelusional on Hamilton. Even more than football segment which though before the start of the season that United have a chance of winning PL.
As Raikkonen said, that is not even close to the "ugliest" title fights but the media just pumps it and this forum is 100% worse than media.
Nobody other than people on this forum expects that. Even Horner said clearly in post race that the one who finishes in front will win it. Yeah finishes...
Rewatch lap 37 in that case. Go to Sky Sports F1's Youtube channel for the race highlights and skip to 11:35 where there is a birds-eye view. Hamilton was making the corner but has to correct his car slightly to avoid Max.
So hang on - on the one hand you’re arguing penalties are not relevant because Hamilton / Max are so fast they negate them anyway. Yet on the other at the same time you’re trying to also make a comment about Bottas not receiving a sufficient penalty for his action.
As @slyadams pointed out, you’re trying to deflect / try and find events that somehow bring Mercedes and Lewis back down to Max’s level. You’re trying to show objective ness but your bias is still transparent I’m afraid.
What's he supposed to say, that their strategy will be for both to DNF?
I know loads of general F1 followers here in Belgium, and even some Dutch ones, who have grown to dislike Verstappen this season. And that really takes some doing when you consider he's up against a perennial world champion. It's such a pity because he's an excellent driver, but he just behaves like a dangerous child on the tracks and will continue to do so unless he starts to get severely punished for it - a symbolic 10" penalty isn't a good start for that.
He would have easily made it, even on the helicopter view of the corner shows he's only just gone slightly off track to avoid Max's lockup into turn 1.
Max did what Lewis did at Silverstone in Brazil and got no penalty.. Christ, he even did it in this race
and only got a 5s time penalty compared to a 10s drive throughIt’s not in line with other punishments this season as prior to this a penalty called after the race either moved the car back or was a grid penalty at the next race.
Yeah because Christian Horner is going to come out and say we expect Max to take Hamilton out
Sigh. No, I'm saying the penalties often don't have as big an impact as the incident they're given for. I'm not trying to "bring them down to Max's level" at all. I think you're suffering from a bit of confirmation bias here.
I'm loving it, I'm not even a Max fan (just not a Lewis fan).
One driver binned the other into the wall, scored a handful of points and put the other in the hospital.
The other driver ran the other wide, and ended up 2nd while the 'victim' driver won.
You do remember that Max actually had road left to drive into in Silverstone? If Max would haven driven like Lewis does whenever Max "doesn't make a corner" he would have been more than fine.
I'm pretty sure he will not DNF both but it will be definitely elbows out which is only logical in title decider.What's he supposed to say, that their strategy will be for both to DNF?
I know loads of general F1 followers here in Belgium, and even some Dutch ones, who have grown to dislike Verstappen this season. And that really takes some doing when you consider he's up against a perennial world champion. It's such a pity because he's an excellent driver, but he just behaves like a dangerous child on the tracks and will continue to do so unless he starts to get severely punished for it - a symbolic 10" penalty isn't a good start for that.
And about people not liking Max. Driver of the day voting really showed how disliked he is. Delusional if u think he lost more fans this season than he gained.
Lewis had tarmac to go over in Brazil, Silverstone had gravel if memory serves right. Max couldn't have driven like Lewis did without ending up in it.
I'm just enjoying all the Lewis fanboys claim everyone is a Max fanboy, and vice versa. For all I care both could never win a race again. Plenty of drivers on the grid I think have personalities and driving styles I prefer more.
People have already made their minds up about him, if you liked him before yesterday nothing will have changed, if you disliked him you'll only dislike him more today.
Oh and please don't call someone delusional just for having a different opinion than yours.
If you remember in Silverstone two things were different than Brazil. Hamilton was trying to turn into the corner, and Max did not try to avoid him. In Brazil you could see Max unwind the steering to force Hamilton wide whilst Hamilton knew what was coming and got out of the way.
U called a driver who have just won driver of the day, which is "popularity contest", unpopular.
In matter of fact, this season Max was infront of Lewis 13 times in driver of the day vote and lewis was 7 times infront of Max so it is clear who is more popular of the two.
I think that's also down to people wanting some drama and not the same dude winning 28 years in a row.
Looking at the telemetry - does seem Max slowed excessively for a brief moment. This was dangerous. I wouldn't go as far to say it was brake testing, especially as we know the DRS detection zone was the key point for both drivers. That said, a penalty was needed for it.
Hamilton not overtaking to be better positioned for the DRS detection point was fair enough as well. It was a situation massively exacerbated because of that.
Hamilton not overtaking to be better positioned for the DRS detection point was fair enough as well. It was a situation massively exacerbated because of that.
Hamilton did not turn into a corner as he should and missed chicane by quite a margain. And he was given penalty because of it.
I said I knew people who disliked him. If you rephrase that into me saying "Verstappen is unpopular, period", then that's not my fault.
And basing yourself on the vote is also ridiculous in itself, it's only the most devout fans who are actually taking part in such voting stuff. But hey I read a poll on Twitter last night that said Salah should've won the Ballon d'Or so he must be more popular worldwide than Messi.
1st restart incident: Max having to give the place up was the correct decision.
2nd incident: I didn’t think was a penalty for Max, I would put that one down to hard racing.
3rd incident: Max was silly and the penalty points are fully deserved, but he shouldn’t have had to give the place up at all anyway.
Takeaways from the grand prix are that they need to stop giving penalties out so easily, they need to not allow tyre changes during a red flag & they need to create a rule that says you are not allowed to give a place up when instructed to do so within a certain distance of the drs zone.
2nd incident: I didn’t think was a penalty for Max, I would put that one down to hard racing.
3rd incident: Max was silly and the penalty points are fully deserved, but he shouldn’t have had to give the place up at all anyway.
Takeaways from the grand prix are that they need to stop giving penalties out so easily, they need to not allow tyre changes during a red flag & they need to create a rule that says you are not allowed to give a place up when instructed to do so within a certain distance of the drs zone.
Exactly. Hamilton made a mistake. Max did it intentionally. There's the difference, in truth the difference between Max and the rest of the grid.
Fantasy League standings
One last race to go and the Fantasy League is all but wrapped up
Toyoda has a 23.5 lead, dont see ChaddyP catching him up.
EDIT , just noticed this has not been updated yet, so this is with 2 races left.
Toyoda has a 23.5 lead, dont see ChaddyP catching him up.
EDIT , just noticed this has not been updated yet, so this is with 2 races left.
| 1st | venkman | 2007.5 | X | |
| 2nd | chaddyp | 1982.0 | X | |
| 3rd | senorgregster | 1926.5 | X | |
| 4th | impulse | 1876.5 | X | |
| 5th | manoucha | 1870.0 | X | |
| 6th | mtf | 1869.5 | X | |
| 7th | emm | EMM | 1843.5 | X |
| 8th | vangagal | 1739.5 | X | |
| 9th | pauldyson1uk | 1726.5 | X | |
| 10th | christy87 | 1718.5 | X | |
| 11th | coleworld | 1717.5 | X | |
| 12th | leg-end7 | 1682.5 | X | |
| 13th | tiber | 1648.5 | X | |
| 14th | jtw95 | 1636.5 | X | |
| 15th | dargonk | 1581.5 | X | |
| 16th | f-red | 1504.0 | X | |
| 17th | 20solskjaer | 1448.0 | X | |
| 18th | dpansheth | Rock | 1310.5 | X |