F1 2021 Season

BrilliantOrange

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Oh yeah, because the 10second had a huge impact on the race outcome didn't it. The stewards full well knew that would do nothing to the outcome hence why they didn't even hesitate to give that penalty. It basically sets the precedent that he can continue to drive stupidly next week.
So... Basically just like Lewis in Silverstone?
 

RepardReece

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So... Basically just like Lewis in Silverstone?
Just like Max in Brazil? At least Lewis got a penalty in Silverstone...

and let's get this straight, if it was vice versa in Silverstone, there would've been no contact, Lewis would've pulled out (as we have seen from numerous occasions recently). I'm not saying it was Max's fault, it was 60/40 Lewis' fault imo. It's like Brazil, if that was vice versa, Max would've probably crashed out the race and Horner would've cried at Hamilton for trying to "kill" Max.
 

sun_tzu

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if max wins next week, it will be a testament to his driving ability and he does deserve to win the wdc for that but when all is said and done, he’ll be remembered for being that bloke that was fast and not a lot else. but to be fair to him, he seems like he’s ok with that.
I think a lot of people cut Max a bit of slack when he started as it was incredible that somebody so young was in F1

If he wins next weekend he will become the 3rd youngest champion after vettel and lewis which is a great achievement but its also time to hold him to account as an experienced racer

If he wins next weekend and takes the title he will do so in his 141'st GP

To put that in perspective the only drivers who have had more GP experience when winning their first title are

Button 169 GP's
Mansell 179 GP's
N Rosberg 206 GP's

non of whom deserved to be cut any slack because of experience of course

Max is now a very experienced driver and way more than 30 of the 33 people who have become world champion - and frankly hes driving round like a spoiled little karting brat

if he crashes out next week I half expect something like this from him


And thats a massive shame because he is undoubtedly massivley talented and quick

But he is also now massivley experienced and needs to cut out the crap

for reference Number of GP's before becoming World Champion

7 Farina
15 Fangio
21 Ascari
25 Fittipaldi
27 Brabham
30 Clarke
30 Hulme
33 Villneuve
35 Hamilton
37 P Hill
41 G Hill
47 Surtees
47 Stewart
49 Piquet
52 Hunt
52 K Rosberg
54 Schumacher
55 Lauda
58 Vettel
59 Hawthorn
62 Rindt
67 D Hill
68 Alonso
76 Jones
77 Senna
82 Andretti
88 Prost
97 Schekter
112 Haakenen
122 Raikkonen
141 Verstappen (* if he wins the championship next weekend)
169 Button
179 Mansell
206 N Rosberg

If max looses this season but wins next season he retains the same position above button... if he does not win till 2023 he would drop below Button and Mansell - if he didnt win till 2024 or later he would drop below Rosberg

But for certain hes an experienced driver in F1 and should rightly be held to account for his driving
 

BrilliantOrange

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Just like Max in Brazil?

and let's get this straight, if it was vice versa in Silverstone, there would've been no contact, Lewis would've pulled out (as we have seen from numerous occasions recently). I'm not saying it was Max's fault, it was 60/40 Lewis' fault imo. It's like Brazil, if that was vice versa, Max would've probably crashed out the race and Horner would've cried at Hamilton for trying to "kill" Max.
Im not trying to argue with you Max did dangerous driving or make this a Max vs Lewis thing..

All Im implying is that Max was punished during the race mulitple times everytime he did the dangerous driving and he now got a post-match punishment which is in line with other punishments during the season...
 

RepardReece

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Im not trying to argue with you Max did dangerous driving or make this a Max vs Lewis thing..

All Im implying is that Max was punished during the race mulitple times everytime he did the dangerous driving and he now got a post-match punishment which is in line with other punishments during the season...
He got "punished" sure, but brake testing an f1 car at those speeds should be deemed a higher penalty let's be honest. Can you imagine if Hamilton did that and the outrage Horner would cause over it?

Brazil he didn't get punished, and then he gets a "punishment" after the race that has no impact at all for really stupid driving. That's very lucky if you ask me and due to that, he'll most likely continue to drive like this next week.
 

Adam-Utd

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Im not trying to argue with you Max did dangerous driving or make this a Max vs Lewis thing..

All Im implying is that Max was punished during the race mulitple times everytime he did the dangerous driving and he now got a post-match punishment which is in line with other punishments during the season...
I think the bigger issue is Max has taken none of it on board. He thinks he's being unfairly penalised.

His after radio comments about not letting us race and the fans know racing, too many penalties etc just show he's not learning his lesson.

There's a fine line between good defensive driving and over aggression. I do blame the FIA in the way they've been dealing with a lot of these situations.

When you look at the Brazil incident that they failed to penalise him for - he's done the exact same thing again (braking too late to make the corner, covering off hamilton and forcing them both off track to keep the lead) but this time they acted swiftly to give the right decision.

He will only end up hurting himself if he carries this on, but nobody seems wise enough to tell him to stop.
 

RoadTrip

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Perhaps you should open your eyes if you've never seen me acknowledge anything Max has done wrong as I've done that plenty of times. Actually, in the post this thing started with I say I agree with a post that says Max was reckless in some corners, etc. But that doesn't fit your narrative does it? It's actually not really a response to Max doing anything at all. My post is just about Mercedes and how if you mention anything Mercedes did wrong on here you get posts like the one you just made making it all about Max. It's as if you can't talk about anything other than what everyone on here thinks Max did wrong, because then "you're trying to play a silly game of whataboutism".

Also, if that gap before the restart is in no way in violation of the rules then the rules need serious looking at because it's completely unfair to create a practically guaranteed overtake on the restart like that.



No, I actually didn't agree with how the stewards handled the Brazil incident (there's posts about it if you want to look back). But I don't agree with how they handled this either. Do you not agree that doing something with the sole purpose of pushing your rival off the track is worthy of a penalty regardless of the outcome? Is your point here "Max pushed Lewis off in Brazil so he has a right to push him off here"?
I think what Max did in Brazil deserved a penalty. I think this incident is different insofar as Hamilton did not leave the track himself, and he didn’t actually “push” Max of the road in the same way Max did in Brazil. He simply took the outside line of the track but left Max no space. So to me, they are different. Hamilton’s, was it worthy of a penalty? I’m not so sure. It certainly was on the line of acceptable. I don’t personally like to see it, but given everything that happened I can understand it.

But most importantly, my reaction was to your post where you’re suggesting Lewis got away with it. I categorically refute that because if you set a precedent with Max in Brazil, whether we agree with it or not, you can’t then apply a different ruleset to this.

That’s my take. I can fully understand why Max fans might be upset about that move he did, but quite frankly you reap what you sow. This is precisely how Max races, time and time again, so it’s incredibly rich to complain about it when someone else does it. Having said that - in fairness to Max, there wasn’t any radio message (that was played at least) where he did complain. And he didn’t complain after the race. So at least he isn’t two-facing that issue, unless I’ve missed it.
 

Zlatan 7

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Sorry, you're naive to think that they would do anything else. I had it down as a fine or reprimand so that it would go into the final round. Remember this is an entertainment business dressed as a sport. They would never do anything that would disrupt the narrative of the final race.



Max is lucky to walk away with just a 10 second penalty if I'm honest. Some of the driving this year has set precedents across the board, but I didn't see them doing anything that would jeopardise the final race in that it would go in completely equal.
But the outcome of the championship would still be decided in the final race, if anything it would make it a better race as I feel now there’s a good chance both cars don’t finish but they get their new champion
 

RoadTrip

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It's a bit naive to suggest anything otherwise, they want the final race to be completely equal and for it to be decided on track & not in the stewards room at the race before.
Did they think this way when sending Hamilton to the back of the grid at Brazil though?

Are we suggesting it’s ok to punish based on what is most entertaining?
 

Abizzz

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It's a bit naive to suggest anything otherwise, they want the final race to be completely equal and for it to be decided on track & not in the stewards room at the race before.
Nah there's nothing naive about wanting rules applied the same to everyone. It's just the FIA is a joke, nothing more to it. They could well be deciding the WC by not taking action too.

They have no backbone and no clue. F1 died when Bernie sold it.
 

RoadTrip

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Max fanboy, Lewis fanboy or anything inbetween.. Yesterday was crazy.. I didnt understand half the things going on and how all the (absense of) penalties were lining up..

The only thing I really dont understand (regardless of any penalties or blame) why in hell Lewis stayed behind Max when he slowed down, and was even gearing back a couple times before bumping into his back.. I mean.. Why not just pass him, regardless of what you might think was going on?
Didn’t want to blast past because it’s completely unusual for someone to suddenly go slow, hence what if there was an accident up ahead? Maybe thought a flag had just come in? Honestly it really isn’t that difficult to understand why he might not immediately just sail past.
 

rimaldo

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I think a lot of people cut Max a bit of slack when he started as it was incredible that somebody so young was in F1

If he wins next weekend he will become the 3rd youngest champion after vettel and lewis which is a great achievement but its also time to hold him to account as an experienced racer

If he wins next weekend and takes the title he will do so in his 141'st GP

To put that in perspective the only drivers who have had more GP experience when winning their first title are

Button 169 GP's
Mansell 179 GP's
N Rosberg 206 GP's

non of whom deserved to be cut any slack because of experience of course

Max is now a very experienced driver and way more than 30 of the 33 people who have become world champion - and frankly hes driving round like a spoiled little karting brat

if he crashes out next week I half expect something like this from him


And thats a massive shame because he is undoubtedly massivley talented and quick

But he is also now massivley experienced and needs to cut out the crap

for reference Number of GP's before becoming World Champion

7 Farina
15 Fangio
21 Ascari
25 Fittipaldi
27 Brabham
30 Clarke
30 Hulme
33 Villneuve
35 Hamilton
37 P Hill
41 G Hill
47 Surtees
47 Stewart
49 Piquet
52 Hunt
52 K Rosberg
54 Schumacher
55 Lauda
58 Vettel
59 Hawthorn
62 Rindt
67 D Hill
68 Alonso
76 Jones
77 Senna
82 Andretti
88 Prost
97 Schekter
112 Haakenen
122 Raikkonen
141 Verstappen (* if he wins the championship next weekend)
169 Button
179 Mansell
206 N Rosberg

If max looses this season but wins next season he retains the same position above button... if he does not win till 2023 he would drop below Button and Mansell - if he didnt win till 2024 or later he would drop below Rosberg

But for certain hes an experienced driver in F1 and should rightly be held to account for his driving
that’s exactly how i feel. it’s a combination of nature and nurture leading us to where we are now. he hasn’t changed at all from those early days, it’s just others know it and adjust. if he was in a shittier car or less talented and back in the pack, he’d be out of nearly every race just chucking the car into a corner and saying it’s his bit of track, deal with it. not sure how anyone can have much more patience with him after so many races and so many of the same incidents.
 

ArjenIsM3

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Wow.

Any excuse to condone Maxs dangerous driving. The examples you have made are nowhere near as dangerous as what Max did. The guy had no class and worse than that he is a liability. He could cause serious injury to another driver one day with this type of driving.
The whataboutism is because in a race where a driver has been found guilty of a brake test on a straight your comeback is that Lewis drove slowly when he was allowed to and Max didn’t know the rules so didn’t drop back to match.

Your position is akin to watching a player put in a leg breaking challenge and coming back with “well they took a throw in 5 yards too far forward so they’re just as bad”.
Christ. This is getting close to wumming now from the two of you. Again, I'm not condoning anything Max did, and I already brought up some of these things before Max even did anything wrong. This is not about Max and it certainly isn't some contest of who was more wrong because it's obvious who'd win that isn't it? I'm trying to discuss something other than the obvious incidents here but apparently that's not allowed by Mercedes' pitbulls on here.

Eh, it's hard to take aim at Merc right now with how Max is behaving. Yes, they slowed down under the safety car (which was mainly to double-stack quickly), but Max is literally driving so dangerously and getting away with it, of course he becomes the talking point. He's the one crossing the line.
Oh I get that Max is being talked about and I have no issue with that but that doesn't mean that you can't talk about anything else does it? As I said I'm not trying to start a contest of who's crossed the line the most here. Though saying Max got away with it is a bit of a stretch in my opinion when he received the standard penalties for everything he did (give position back, 5s penalty, 10s penalty, two points on his licence). Just because he didn't lose the position doesn't mean he got away with it.
 

F-Red

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But the outcome of the championship would still be decided in the final race, if anything it would make it a better race as I feel now there’s a good chance both cars don’t finish but they get their new champion
Nice idea, but seriously it was never going to happen. I've watched F1 for over 30 years, and I've never seen that scenario fall any differently to what it did.

Did they think this way when sending Hamilton to the back of the grid at Brazil though?

Are we suggesting it’s ok to punish based on what is most entertaining?
A technical infringement is quite the difference to a sporting one. The latter is open to more interpretation, the technical one is pretty black and white. Not the comparison to make here.

Nah there's nothing naive about wanting rules applied the same to everyone. It's just the FIA is a joke, nothing more to it. They could well be deciding the WC by not taking action too.

They have no backbone and no clue. F1 died when Bernie sold it.
If you think F1 died when Bernie sold it then you're naive. It was dying under him.

The consistency of the application rules needs a review, I agree on that much.
 

Abizzz

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If you think F1 died when Bernie sold it then you're naive. It was dying under him.

The consistency of the application rules needs a review, I agree on that much.
Perhaps, at the end. They mightbe as good as Bernie was at 85+. However the only thing that's improved since his sale is it's presence on youtube.


The rest is complete bullocks. Races like Spa, tracks like yesterday, tracks that aren't rubbered in. In race decisions by the stewards that make football referees look competent (and remember they're literally sitting in an armchair). I think i'm done with it when Lewis is. Never mind that there'll never be another Murray Walker, they can't even find a Roy Keane or Neville to talk about it. Listen in on some of the Walker&Hunt comentaries on youtube. They would have ripped Max 3 new holes by now.
 

Zlatan 7

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Nice idea, but seriously it was never going to happen. I've watched F1 for over 30 years, and I've never seen that scenario fall any differently to what it did.



A technical infringement is quite the difference to a sporting one. The latter is open to more interpretation, the technical one is pretty black and white. Not the comparison to make here.



If you think F1 died when Bernie sold it then you're naive. It was dying under him.

The consistency of the application rules needs a review, I agree on that much.
So have I, and there’s never really been a similar scenario to compare to.

there’s a driver taking it past the limits and driving recklessly on equal points to their rival and to me has been clear he’s playing a make room for me or we both crash out game for the last few races, I think it should have been checked before the final race to atleast ensure we get a race.
 

RepardReece

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Oh I get that Max is being talked about and I have no issue with that but that doesn't mean that you can't talk about anything else does it? As I said I'm not trying to start a contest of who's crossed the line the most here. Though saying Max got away with it is a bit of a stretch in my opinion when he received the standard penalties for everything he did (give position back, 5s penalty, 10s penalty, two points on his licence). Just because he didn't lose the position doesn't mean he got away with it.
You're right, other things can be talked about, but I'm just pointing out that Max is the big talking point, it's the full focus currently.

Yeah at the end of the day, he did receive a "penalty" there's no arguing that, although a penalty that has no impact at all isn't really a penalty if you ask me. My issue lies with the fact anyway that he's probably going to continue to be overly aggressive next week too. If Hamilton sets the pace in practice and qualifying, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they collide and both end with a DNF.
 

Jerch

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Funny reading how Max is over the line with his driving given he was taken out by Merc driver 3 times this season and he took out 1 Merc.

Delusion on this forum is incredible really.
 

slyadams

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Christ. This is getting close to wumming now from the two of you. Again, I'm not condoning anything Max did, and I already brought up some of these things before Max even did anything wrong. This is not about Max and it certainly isn't some contest of who was more wrong because it's obvious who'd win that isn't it? I'm trying to discuss something other than the obvious incidents here but apparently that's not allowed by Mercedes' pitbulls on here.
Your original post opening up the 'other topics' was:
Honestly Merc as a team are getting more and more unlikeable. I understand people not liking Horner, he whines a lot yeah, but Merc aren't much better.

Agree with this. Though I think the dirty stuff from Mercedes (both Bottas and Hamilton) should be looked at too.
To me it seems quite clear you're trying to deflect or draw equivilancies, and you're going to be called out on that.
 

pauldyson1uk

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Some people in this thread aren't worth trying to discuss with - this is the same guy who posted that Lewis fans are "running scared" for wanting a penalty, and then immediately followed it up by calling them "too rabid and bitter" to accept that Max did nothing wrong.

At this point I genuinely suspect it might be Max's or Horner's account.
a fair comment I would say,
 

Abizzz

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Funny reading how Max is over the line with his driving given he was taken out by Merc driver 3 times this season and he took out 1 Merc.

Delusion on this forum is incredible really.
Well only because he didn't manage to hit Lewis on 4 separate tries now.
 

RepardReece

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Funny reading how Max is over the line with his driving given he was taken out by Merc driver 3 times this season and he took out 1 Merc.

Delusion on this forum is incredible really.
So you're saying because he was taken out in previous races, he is entitled to drive dangerously? Get a grip. Also, if Lewis didn't back out each time he would be in the lead of your stupid scoreboard.
 

Jerch

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So you're saying because he was taken out in previous races, he is entitled to drive dangerously? Get a grip. Also, if Lewis didn't back out each time he would be in the lead of your stupid scoreboard.
He is driving on the edge but not dangerously. Only time they made contact it was as much Hamilton's fault as it was Max's. Both were trying to get DRS and massively slowed down before contact/brake check.

People seem to ignore the fact that in last 3 races Hamilton have much faster car so Max is driving on the edge all the time. When Hamilton was trying to get pass him it was obvious that both braked to late, Max's back jumped out and he missed the corner because he had to correct it. Everybody seems to ignore that Hamilton also breaked to late and miss the corner.
There are 2 options for Max. Thrown WC out of the window and drive safe or try to fight and drive to absolutely maximum of car's and his capabilities.
If he wouldn't be driving to his maximum capability we wouldn't have title fight at all.
 

ArjenIsM3

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You're right, other things can be talked about, but I'm just pointing out that Max is the big talking point, it's the full focus currently.

Yeah at the end of the day, he did receive a "penalty" there's no arguing that, although a penalty that has no impact at all isn't really a penalty if you ask me. My issue lies with the fact anyway that he's probably going to continue to be overly aggressive next week too. If Hamilton sets the pace in practice and qualifying, I wouldn't at all be surprised if they collide and both end with a DNF.
I agree, the penalty didn't really have much of an impact, but they rarely do for Lewis and Max because nobody can get near them. The difference in pace between them and the rest of the pack is so big they can take 10s penalties without issue most of the time. Lewis at Silverstone is another example of that. And in other cases like Bottas' torpedo move where he took out several cars including both Red Bulls while it was of course bad news for him and he did get punished, the punishment hardly stacked up to the damage he did with the move or the advantage it gave Mercedes in the end. That's just how it is I'm afraid.

We'll see how it goes next week. I expect Mercedes to be quicker once again as it's clear they have a far superior package at this point and the track has been modified in their advantage (less low speed stuff) so we'll see how Max and Red Bull take the hit. Hopefully everybody keeps their cool and we'll see a fair race.
 

RepardReece

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He is driving on the edge but not dangerously. Only time they made contact it was as much Hamilton's fault as it was Max's. Both were trying to get DRS and massively slowed down before contact/brake check.

People seem to ignore the fact that in last 3 races Hamilton have much faster car so Max is driving on the edge all the time. When Hamilton was trying to get pass him it was obvious that both braked to late, Max's back jumped out and he missed the corner because he had to correct it. Everybody seems to ignore that Hamilton also breaked to late and miss the corner.
There are 2 options for Max. Thrown WC out of the window and drive safe or try to fight and drive to absolutely maximum of car's and his capabilities.
If he wouldn't be driving to his maximum capability we wouldn't have title fight at all.
Lewis wasn't told he could pass Max so I really doubt he was trying to avoid DRS. In his mind, Max could've been slowing for a crash ahead that lewis was unaware of. Most of the blame goes to Max, he was the one who aggressively brake checked Hamilton.

It's funny how you mention that, "driving on the edge", makes it even funnier when Max managed to make the corner every time bar when Lewis was about to overtake. He does it on purpose to keep the position, it's clearly not accidental as he's done it every time in the last few races. And which lap are you talking about where Hamilton missed the corner, lap 37? He missed it due to avoiding contact with Max, if he turned in to make the corner, he would've hit max's car. You can literally see his car stop turning for a split second.
 

11101

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He is driving on the edge but not dangerously. Only time they made contact it was as much Hamilton's fault as it was Max's. Both were trying to get DRS and massively slowed down before contact/brake check.

People seem to ignore the fact that in last 3 races Hamilton have much faster car so Max is driving on the edge all the time. When Hamilton was trying to get pass him it was obvious that both braked to late, Max's back jumped out and he missed the corner because he had to correct it. Everybody seems to ignore that Hamilton also breaked to late and miss the corner.
There are 2 options for Max. Thrown WC out of the window and drive safe or try to fight and drive to absolutely maximum of car's and his capabilities.
If he wouldn't be driving to his maximum capability we wouldn't have title fight at all.
Sorry but that's nonsense. His overtaking business and pushing people off the track is on the edge, brake checking at speed is incredibly dangerous. Not giving a meaningful penalty for that sends the message he can virtually ram a car off the track in Abu Dhabi if he wants to. The fact that everybody expects him to do just that says everything about his driving.
 

Jerch

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Lewis wasn't told he could pass Max so I really doubt he was trying to avoid DRS. In his mind, Max could've been slowing for a crash ahead that lewis was unaware of. Most of the blame goes to Max, he was the one who aggressively brake checked Hamilton.

It's funny how you mention that, "driving on the edge", makes it even funnier when Max managed to make the corner every time bar when Lewis was about to overtake. He does it on purpose to keep the position, it's clearly not accidental as he's done it every time in the last few races. And which lap are you talking about where Hamilton missed the corner, lap 37? He missed it due to avoiding contact with Max, if he turned in to make the corner, he would've hit max's car. You can literally see his car stop turning for a split second.
Yeah really strange that he make it every other lap other the one when he was defending and have to brake even later on not ideal line. i agree totally not understandable.

And the second point. No he wouldn't make it.

As I said before. This forum isdelusional on Hamilton. Even more than football segment which though before the start of the season that United have a chance of winning PL.

As Raikkonen said, that is not even close to the "ugliest" title fights but the media just pumps it and this forum is 100% worse than media.
 

Jerch

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Sorry but that's nonsense. His overtaking business and pushing people off the track is on the edge, brake checking at speed is incredibly dangerous. Not giving a meaningful penalty for that sends the message he can virtually ram a car off the track in Abu Dhabi if he wants to. The fact that everybody expects him to do just that says everything about his driving.
Nobody other than people on this forum expects that. Even Horner said clearly in post race that the one who finishes in front will win it. Yeah finishes...
 

RepardReece

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Yeah really strange that he make it every other lap other the one when he was defending and have to brake even later on not ideal line. i agree totally not understandable.

And the second point. No he wouldn't make it.

As I said before. This forum isdelusional on Hamilton. Even more than football segment which though before the start of the season that United have a chance of winning PL.

As Raikkonen said, that is not even close to the "ugliest" title fights but the media just pumps it and this forum is 100% worse than media.
Rewatch lap 37 in that case. Go to Sky Sports F1's Youtube channel for the race highlights and skip to 11:35 where there is a birds-eye view. Hamilton was making the corner but has to correct his car slightly to avoid Max.
 

RoadTrip

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I agree, the penalty didn't really have much of an impact, but they rarely do for Lewis and Max because nobody can get near them. The difference in pace between them and the rest of the pack is so big they can take 10s penalties without issue most of the time. Lewis at Silverstone is another example of that. And in other cases like Bottas' torpedo move where he took out several cars including both Red Bulls while it was of course bad news for him and he did get punished, the punishment hardly stacked up to the damage he did with the move or the advantage it gave Mercedes in the end. That's just how it is I'm afraid.

We'll see how it goes next week. I expect Mercedes to be quicker once again as it's clear they have a far superior package at this point and the track has been modified in their advantage (less low speed stuff) so we'll see how Max and Red Bull take the hit. Hopefully everybody keeps their cool and we'll see a fair race.
So hang on - on the one hand you’re arguing penalties are not relevant because Hamilton / Max are so fast they negate them anyway. Yet on the other at the same time you’re trying to also make a comment about Bottas not receiving a sufficient penalty for his action.

As @slyadams pointed out, you’re trying to deflect / try and find events that somehow bring Mercedes and Lewis back down to Max’s level. You’re trying to show objective ness but your bias is still transparent I’m afraid.
 

RobinLFC

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Nobody other than people on this forum expects that. Even Horner said clearly in post race that the one who finishes in front will win it. Yeah finishes...
What's he supposed to say, that their strategy will be for both to DNF? :lol:

I know loads of general F1 followers here in Belgium, and even some Dutch ones, who have grown to dislike Verstappen this season. And that really takes some doing when you consider he's up against a perennial world champion. It's such a pity because he's an excellent driver, but he just behaves like a dangerous child on the tracks and will continue to do so unless he starts to get severely punished for it - a symbolic 10" penalty isn't a good start for that.
 

F-Red

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And the second point. No he wouldn't make it.
He would have easily made it, even on the helicopter view of the corner shows he's only just gone slightly off track to avoid Max's lockup into turn 1.
 

Fully Fledged

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Im not trying to argue with you Max did dangerous driving or make this a Max vs Lewis thing..

All Im implying is that Max was punished during the race mulitple times everytime he did the dangerous driving and he now got a post-match punishment which is in line with other punishments during the season...
It’s not in line with other punishments this season as prior to this a penalty called after the race either moved the car back or was a grid penalty at the next race.
 

11101

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Nobody other than people on this forum expects that. Even Horner said clearly in post race that the one who finishes in front will win it. Yeah finishes...
Yeah because Christian Horner is going to come out and say we expect Max to take Hamilton out :lol:
 

ArjenIsM3

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So hang on - on the one hand you’re arguing penalties are not relevant because Hamilton / Max are so fast they negate them anyway. Yet on the other at the same time you’re trying to also make a comment about Bottas not receiving a sufficient penalty for his action.

As @slyadams pointed out, you’re trying to deflect / try and find events that somehow bring Mercedes and Lewis back down to Max’s level. You’re trying to show objective ness but your bias is still transparent I’m afraid.
Sigh. No, I'm saying the penalties often don't have as big an impact as the incident they're given for. I'm not trying to "bring them down to Max's level" at all. I think you're suffering from a bit of confirmation bias here.
 

mitChley

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Funny reading how Max is over the line with his driving given he was taken out by Merc driver 3 times this season and he took out 1 Merc.

Delusion on this forum is incredible really.
I'm loving it, I'm not even a Max fan (just not a Lewis fan).

One driver binned the other into the wall, scored a handful of points and put the other in the hospital.
The other driver ran the other wide, and ended up 2nd while the 'victim' driver won.
 

Abizzz

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I'm loving it, I'm not even a Max fan (just not a Lewis fan).

One driver binned the other into the wall, scored a handful of points and put the other in the hospital.
The other driver ran the other wide, and ended up 2nd while the 'victim' driver won.
You do remember that Max actually had road left to drive into in Silverstone? If Max would haven driven like Lewis does whenever Max "doesn't make a corner" he would have been more than fine.
 

Jerch

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What's he supposed to say, that their strategy will be for both to DNF? :lol:

I know loads of general F1 followers here in Belgium, and even some Dutch ones, who have grown to dislike Verstappen this season. And that really takes some doing when you consider he's up against a perennial world champion. It's such a pity because he's an excellent driver, but he just behaves like a dangerous child on the tracks and will continue to do so unless he starts to get severely punished for it - a symbolic 10" penalty isn't a good start for that.
I'm pretty sure he will not DNF both but it will be definitely elbows out which is only logical in title decider.

And about people not liking Max. Driver of the day voting really showed how disliked he is. Delusional if u think he lost more fans this season than he gained.