They're doing well atm but they always seem to fall away around Feb/March time when the pressure is on. Not being in europe has helped them but I dont think they'll make the top 4
Mikel Arteta | Lego Pep watch
- Thread starter Samid
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And?
RR said we need to upgrade LB before he had that season, and he's not starting as he's out of form. I'd probably wait a bit before calling him deadwood. If every out of form player is getting called a deadwood, I'm pretty sure Spurs' 150m asset is a deadwood as well.
The manager with the 5th/6th highest budget finished 5th/6th in his last 2 seasons. In what world is that considered to be a failure? As we have seen since then it’s incredibly hard to do what he had been doing for years and years.
It’s not like his successors have done much better either. Our target now is to finish in the Europa! And how much have we spent since Wenger? To go from 6th to 8th? What divine right did Arsenal have to be a top 4 team to begin with?
Lost a title fight to Leicester and what about all the other clubs? Still finished above them lot. What does that say about our consistency under Wenger? Imagine 6th place is an achievement now! People who wanted Wenger out and are happy with 6th place should dream we were still as good as we were in 15/16.
There is absolutely no denying that our standards have dropped over the last few years.
What we are doing now is trying to build with a young and talented core, and aim to push back into CL spots over the next two seasons. I'm excited to think about what a young core of - Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Ødegaard, Patino, Tomiyasu, White, Gabriel, KT, Ramsdale and Saliba can possibly achieve in the future.
But Wenger was able to build with a young and talented core (Ramsey, Walcott, Wilshere, etc) whilst still maintaining our CL status. We are not close a to that at this point.
What we are doing now is trying to build with a young and talented core, and aim to push back into CL spots over the next two seasons. I'm excited to think about what a young core of - Saka, ESR, Martinelli, Ødegaard, Patino, Tomiyasu, White, Gabriel, KT, Ramsdale and Saliba can possibly achieve in the future.
But Wenger was able to build with a young and talented core (Ramsey, Walcott, Wilshere, etc) whilst still maintaining our CL status. We are not close a to that at this point.
4th highest, i'm pretty sure
Don't let United's continued banter era fool you. It isn't that hard to finish top 4 when you have a top 4 budget. The problem for arsenal is that the end of the wenger era saw liverpool leapfrog you in that regard. Now it's hard, because you now have 5 richer clubs ahead of you
Consistently being the 3rd/4th richest club in the league
Yes, and they sacked their managers for it
The type of manager employed by Kroenke, the sort of manager who achieved the results he did on the crumbs Kroenke left the club. Wenger relied a lot on personal relationships with other clubs to make deals and identify potential transfers, eventually that tank runs dry. I'm not surprised you were suspended by the Arsenal forum, you're the worst type of supporter, let alone the worst Arsenal has. The Ungrateful Gooner who can't shut up about how they knew better. The type who is very good at painting white bedsheets.
To me it seems like Shaw overperformed for one season and then back to his normal level. No one will buy him as he is on high wage so wait and see is the only approach anyway. I didn't and wouldn't call any player deadwood but he may not be man Utd quality.
He was more than decent in the season before that as well. It's just that the front 4 were comfortably better than him then. But, many of us were seeing the improvement in the game even in that season.
Irrespective, there's a huge difference between being not good enough to be a regular starter and being a deadwood. So, even at worst, you relegate Shaw from starter to bench player not to deadwood.
Wenger wasn't backed financially by the ownership, he was forced to see his best players go to United, Barca, City, and Chelsea in the Emirates era. Wenger's legacy isn't how the club have done since he left, neither is SAF's legacy how MUFC have performed since he left.
Wenger lost a title fight to Leicester (a team he beat twice that season) yet you advocated for Klopp, who finished 8th that season with Liverpool and left Dortmund in 7th place the year before in a true two team league.
I dont think its easier but I agree with the bolded part. I think fans/board understand that its basically rebuilding seasons and it'll take a while to get them to become a powerhouse again which IMO they are on track.
United, on the other hand, still believe or expect results like Ferguson era and have made spectacular purchases to attempt to replicate that as opposed to rebuilding.
Hopefully Rag changes the cultures within the club. The league needs both clubs back. Someone said on twitter that Pep is turning the league into farmers league. Hilarious but with a hint of truth.
If my memory serves me correctly we were never in a title fight that year. That was Spurs. Spurs slipped up in the end and we got second. We were never close to challenge.
Right. 'Spurs came in third in a two-horse race' although we were kinda still in it when *** guy scored that header (similar to yesterday).
It kind of gets lost in the bantering about being the only club that could end 3rd in a 2 horse race but thats not the case at all.
By gameweek 20, Arsenal were 1st in the table (ie 1st weekend of Jan), 6 points ahead of Spurs in 4th (who were behind both Leicester and Man City). Arsenal had also been 1st over Christmas. By gameweek 25, Spurs were 2nd but tied on points with Arsenal in 3rd. Even by gameweek 30, we were still 5 points behind Leicester and only 3 ahead of Arsenal in 3rd.
If my memory serves me right, I don't think we were even 1st at any point that season.
Though of course whether either of us should have been behind Leicester that season is another discussion.
February 14th, Welbeck heads a winner in the dying seconds to move Arsenal to within 2 points of Leicester at the top of the table.
Then in the next 3 league games we get beat at Old Trafford, beat at home to Swansea, & draw at Spurs. League challenge gone.
Ignoring the final 2 seasons of Wenger makes you look dishonest though, that's the thing. He outspent Pochettino and still finished behind Pochettino in the PL in both of those seasons. He got outclassed by Pochettino in in the PL his final 2 seasons, just like he got outclassed by Ranieri in 15/16.
Wenger left us behind Tottenham, despite us spending more money and having more resources. Good luck trying to spin that.
And saying things like we have no right to expect to be top 4, completely proves my point about your disingenious take on lowering standards.
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I specifically mentioned his last 2 seasons in a post above.We had about the 5th most expensive team and we finished 5th and 6th + an FA Cup. Not great definitely but not awful. What have his successors done since considering the large amounts we have spent in the last 4 seasons?
What is there to spin about Spurs?Poch was doing a fantastic job for them better than Wenger at the time.
But again, Wenger far outspent Pochettino and had a much higher wage budget. Yet Pochettino still finished ahead of him and put Spurs into the top 4.
Why do you keep repeating the lie that Wenger didn't have the resources to finish top 4, when he clearly did? Arteta btw won the FA Cup too & Emery got us to the Europa League final, something Wenger incidentally failed to do in his final season.
Wenger was fired precisely because he was unable to get into the top 4, and unable to win the Europa League to get us through to the Champions League via that route and was only capable of getting FA cups.
That's why he was fired.
Now, every time you criticize other managers for failing to get us a Champions League place, you're simply reinforcing why it was the correct decision to get rid of Wenger in the first place & it's stunning how you don't even realize that honestly.
I completely and totally agree with you that we spent eye-watering sums of money recently with absolutely nothing to show for it basically. But that's a separate discussion to Wenger, that's my point.
Just because it was the correct decision to get rid of Wenger, doesn't mean it was the correct decision to hire Arteta, or let Edu take charge of transfer decisions etc.
I still believe Arteta was completely the wrong choice and his lack of management ability in the big games is sad to see. However, Emery is the complete opposite. There was absolutely no chance we would have been eliminated in the Semi Final of the Europa League last year if Emery was in charge. It's so poetic that he eliminated Arteta & our club and went on to win that trophy. I'm very happy for him.
Emery didn't fail Arsenal, Arsenal failed Emery. He did very well with the resources he had, and it's frankly embarrassing for the board to get rid of him and hire Arteta. Also very insulting. A complete rookie!
It was a risky move and it didn't pay off. If he fails to finish top 4 this season as well, then it has been a spectacular failure with vast sums of cash down the drain.
/Rant
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I realise you are completely obsessed in proving your point however you are either mistaken or deliberately misrepresenting the facts. Arsene Wenger wasn't fired, he chose to resign due to the continual poor behaviour of a group of bedsheet waving fans.
Let's see from you comparative figures in black & white displaying Wenger's budget over a period of years in competition with City, Liverpool, United etc so that you prove your case that Arsenal had more to spend than others because you keep banging on with your same old tale but I've yet to see you back it up with fact.
As far as I'm aware the only thing Arsenal has come top in during recent years is bums on seat ticket prices. If Kroenke spent in proportion to money coming in at the stadium in comparison with the rest of Europe, let alone the Premier League I'm sure Arsenal ought to be the best funded club in several leagues.
He’s got them playing decent stuff, certainly going toe to toe with city. Maybe he’s not as useless as is made out.
You could even argue they’ve dominated city in these first 30 minutes
Almost as if you need to weed out high earners who have become too comfortable and be given a bit of time to implement a style of play?
Who knew.
Who knew.
None of this is capable of happening at our club.
What Arteta achieved last year would result in a sack due to the pressure of the fans, money and the Glazers.
Our fans would complain for not seeing enough, for not getting the right players. For not getting a title challenge. Complaining about wanting to sell a good young player because they are not playing like a city player or Liverpool’s.
A building club atmosphere is not capable at our club - our clubs is circulated with glory hunters who wants glory in any quick chance they can get. Arteta has targeted some good youthful British players playing well from the own league - players our fans don't want because they are deemed not successful enough and over priced - whilst crying out for the next player available from the Bundesliga or Ligue 1; players from leagues that has failed us many many a time.
Its never changing. it might take us a good long time to realise that we need to change our mentality as a club, how's its run and how it's followed for us to have the ability to change how we physically play with our feet.
What Arteta achieved last year would result in a sack due to the pressure of the fans, money and the Glazers.
Our fans would complain for not seeing enough, for not getting the right players. For not getting a title challenge. Complaining about wanting to sell a good young player because they are not playing like a city player or Liverpool’s.
A building club atmosphere is not capable at our club - our clubs is circulated with glory hunters who wants glory in any quick chance they can get. Arteta has targeted some good youthful British players playing well from the own league - players our fans don't want because they are deemed not successful enough and over priced - whilst crying out for the next player available from the Bundesliga or Ligue 1; players from leagues that has failed us many many a time.
Its never changing. it might take us a good long time to realise that we need to change our mentality as a club, how's its run and how it's followed for us to have the ability to change how we physically play with our feet.
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Defintely
Fair play, he's built a decent team now he's got a consistent starting 11. They look far better than us.
Arteta blud. He’s doing it. He’s doing his thing.
Wait, he’s not even there. It’s our club legend Albert Stuivenberg
Wasn't he ASM under Van Gaal?
Very impressive recently tbf. They were tumescent for ages but lots of nice flowing moves now that Aubameyang’s not killing every attack and Martinelli’s bringing the urgency. Some class in midfield from Partey too.
I really like the fact that he has set his team up to try to take the game to city. Win or lose that bravery is refreshing and I think fans would appreciate it.
Yep! He was van Gaal’s main man who then flopped at Genk (Belgium), then followed Giggs to be his assistant for Wales for a while
I actually think this is very true. We need to do the same. We have about a million quid a week in wages, possibly a bit more, spread over many players which is a total waste as they barely contribute anything.
We need to go for a youthful approach too in the summer. Get rid of the oldies.
Arteta had the balls to drop him, which is something a bit surprising. But now it's clear he was stinking up the place.
They outplayed City so far. Compared to our approach when we met them which was disgraceful. This match answered the question on whos better between him and Ole. I can definitely see a clear pattern of play and scheme on their tactics.
Bunch of petulant unlikable cnuts.
They were on top, this meltdown is as random as a Lukaku interview
Watching Arsenal today bar the last 10 or so minutes is why I’m so keen to weed out some of our high earners and give the likes of Elanga, Diallo, Mejbri a go. I’m so tired of expensive marquee signings
Done in again by ceding the initiative, happens far too often to be excused.