Italian Serie A - 2021-2022

Bepi

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I blame Allegri more than the players honestly


Mate, if Legoman rated Ceballos they would have signed him. And Ceballos is *better* than Arthur


They're miscast more than anything. But again, this is on Allegri
Dude, please stop rationalising a pragmatist coach like Allegri through your madridista / interista lenses. He is a men manager, not a coach. He does not even need superstars, just grown ups with one or two peculiar strokes (headers, set pieces, long range shots, poaching, one vs one, etc.) in addition to basic team situational awareness.

If above average but nothing special midfielders like McKennie and Locatelli are becoming important, it is because they can do more than their basic duties… that is, providing goals. Arthur? Nothing, nada, niente, he is an empty box. Rabiot and Bentancur (like Alex Sandro, Kean, Bernardeschi… even De Ligt and Szscesny here and there) are just liabilities, in that they do score goals for the opponents because of their incredible, careless individual mistakes.

Add too many injuries to this unrewarding picture, and we are done. Yet, thanks to Allegri’s pragmatism, we are more solid these days and still running for a CL spot. The game vs Milan will be another benchmark and hopefully not a defeat, we are lucky there will be only 5k fans allowed in San Siro next Sunday.
 

SweDevil

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Milan should have scored 4 already but nice turn of events. Missed penalty at the of the half to a goal scored 1 minute after!
 

giorno

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Dude, please stop rationalising a pragmatist coach like Allegri through your madridista / interista lenses. He is a men manager, not a coach. He does not even need superstars, just grown ups with one or two peculiar strokes (headers, set pieces, long range shots, poaching, one vs one, etc.) in addition to basic team situational awareness.
A pragmatist is one who coaches to the get the best out of his players. Allegri is very much not doing that this season, weirdly enough. There's been something of the late-Mourinho to him, really strange to see

If above average but nothing special midfielders like McKennie and Locatelli are becoming important, it is because they can do more than their basic duties… that is, providing goals.
They can offer a lot more than that, but Allegri isn't coaching them to

Arthur? Nothing, nada, niente, he is an empty box.
And yet you attack so much better with him on the pitch. Simply because with him there is some semblance of order and structure to what you do

Rabiot and Bentancur (like Alex Sandro, Kean, Bernardeschi… even De Ligt and Szscesny here and there) are just liabilities, in that they do score goals for the opponents because of their incredible, careless individual mistakes.
Allegri needs to do better. They weren't doing that all their careers, where they? This is something recent, and specific to juventus. Aside from Alex Sandro who genuinely appears done

Yet, thanks to Allegri’s pragmatism, we are more solid these days and still running for a CL spot. The game vs Milan will be another benchmark and hopefully not a defeat, we are lucky there will be only 5k fans allowed in San Siro next Sunday.
Allegri's not doing a bad job on the whole, he's built another solid defensive unit. But he's completely failing when it comes to the attack
 

Markolan

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Ref has blood in his hand..
Usually I dont blame poor refereeing but If we lost this game it's 99% his fault and that stupid mistake at 90+3.
 

Red&Black

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which part? the ref cancelling a 100% legitimate goal to win the match for Milan, or getting the game losing goal scored against them by a guy who committed 7 fouls AFTER receiving his yellow card?
 

Bepi

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A pragmatist is one who coaches to the get the best out of his players. Allegri is very much not doing that this season, weirdly enough. There's been something of the late-Mourinho to him, really strange to see


They can offer a lot more than that, but Allegri isn't coaching them to


And yet you attack so much better with him on the pitch. Simply because with him there is some semblance of order and structure to what you do


Allegri needs to do better. They weren't doing that all their careers, where they? This is something recent, and specific to juventus. Aside from Alex Sandro who genuinely appears done


Allegri's not doing a bad job on the whole, he's built another solid defensive unit. But he's completely failing when it comes to the attack
Mate, this is a full roster of passengers. Ronaldo’s goals were driving them all forward in exchange of their complete submission. Allegri and Arrivabene now want them stop needing a babysitter. Neither Sarri nor Pirlo were able to keep them focused as well, it seems to me? I just hope we do not sack our coach again, a la Moratti golden era.
 

Pintu

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which part? the ref cancelling a 100% legitimate goal to win the match for Milan, or getting the game losing goal scored against them by a guy who committed 7 fouls AFTER receiving his yellow card?
The ref canceled a great opportunity. But he didn't cancel a goal, he blew the whistle before Messias' shot. I don't think the keeper made any attempt to save it.
 

TwoSheds

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Saw Nani got an assist for Venezia yesterday? Great to see him still going!
 

Red&Black

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The ref canceled a great opportunity. But he didn't cancel a goal, he blew the whistle before Messias' shot. I don't think the keeper made any attempt to save it.
The ref blew the whistle as the shot was leaving Messias' foot. And the AIA has already issued an apology to Milan for the whistle/nullifying the goal and are suspending the referee (within 2hrs of match's end).

What cannot be argued is we should have killed that match off much earlier. Several great chances, and some ridiculous stops from the keeper as well. But alas, despite it, we shouldve left the matc with 3pts, not zero.

I will also continue with saying Zlatan should not be starting.
 

abundance

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In my humble opinion, this Inter has exactly 2 world class players: Skriniar and Bastoni.

(last year we had Eriksen and Hakimi too but hey, they gone)

Then there's Barella who's got the potential to become one but needs to overcome some limitations, re. precision, distribution, choices, exuberance...
First two years under Conte he was steadily improving, this first half of the season he's stalling a little bit.
Seem to struggle on decisions and tempo with the the more demanding attacking interplay under Inzaghi.
Maybe accumulated fatigue from two packed seasons has a role.

Lautaro won't be one - nice player but lacking too much in speed, tight dribbling, and clinicality.

All the rest - never been, never will be, or have been long time ago.
Still, most of them are pretty good and are thriving in roles that fit them perfectly so far.
Perisic, Brozovic and Calhanoglu are almost overkill for Serie A on current form.

Big regret that Dzeko got here already past 35 - man even at his age, does he improve interplay over Lukaku!... oddly, hasn't gel properly
with Lautaro yet.


Inter are a great team without world class players(save Brozovic).
Sorry but I think Lautaro and Barella stand out much more than Brozovic
Barella is definitely world class imo. He would be a regular starter in any team except Real Madrid, FC Bayern and maybe Manchester City.

Lautaro not yet, he should improve his performances in big games. Especially this season he was disappointing in the UEFA Champions League and other important matches (Milan derby and both Juventus games)
I'd say that there are not more than 5 world class players in Serie A (Koulibaly, Barella, Brozovic, Chiesa, Theo Hernandez). Then there are several players who're close to that level like SMS, Skriniar, Lautaro or Dybala and others who might reach it soon (Vlahovic, Bastoni, Osimhen, Leao)
 

Yagami

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On the topic of world class players in Serie A, I honestly don't think there are any. Personally, I don't think the league has had one since Tevez in 14/15.

I blame Allegri more than the players honestly


Mate, if Legoman rated Ceballos they would have signed him. And Ceballos is *better* than Arthur


They're miscast more than anything. But again, this is on Allegri
I think it goes beyond Allegri. A few managers have struggled now, and I think the fact that they have a lot of overrated players. Like, even before Allegri, I never got the fuss with Rabiot and Bentancur. I remember a lot of United fans wanting Rabiot from PSG and I was delighted when Juve got him.

Also, Ceballos over Arthur?! How dare you! Admittedly, he looked magnificent at Betis, and in his first loan season at Arsenal, but he's looked terrible for you and last season for Arsenal. He got a nasty injury at the start of the season, didn't he? Looked like he was off to a new team before that.
 

Pintu

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On the topic of world class players in Serie A, I honestly don't think there are any. Personally, I don't think the league has had one since Tevez in 14/15.
Let’s see who makes a list of WC players according to you?

I’m guessing Salah doesn’t qualify because he stayed in Italy for 2 season after Tevez left. And there haven’t been any WC players in SerieA since 2015.
 

Yagami

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Let’s see who makes a list of WC players according to you?

I’m guessing Salah doesn’t qualify because he stayed in Italy for 2 season after Tevez left. And there haven’t been any WC players in SerieA since 2015.
I don't think Salah was world class at Fiorentina or Roma, no.
 

Pintu

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I don't think Salah was world class at Fiorentina or Roma, no.
I get that. And nor was Ronaldo in 2018/19 or Bonucci anytime since 2015. I am asking about the WC players that are not in Serie A.

Who is WC in Europe since 2015?

Did Salah become a WC player the minute he started playing for Liverpool?
 

giorno

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Higuain, Pogba, Cristiano, Koulibaly, Donnarumma, Bonucci, Chiellini, Barzagli, Buffon, Alex Sandro, Cancelo, Cuadrado, Dybala, Marchisio, Pjanic, Khedira, Matuidi....

I mean at least the first 9 on that list...
 

Yagami

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I get that. And nor was Ronaldo in 2018/19 or Bonucci anytime since 2015. I am asking about the WC players that are not in Serie A.

Who is WC in Europe since 2015?

Did Salah become a WC player the minute he started playing for Liverpool?
Nope. He came as a very good player - like in Italy - and carried on developing.
Higuain, Pogba, Cristiano, Koulibaly, Donnarumma, Bonucci, Chiellini, Barzagli, Buffon, Alex Sandro, Cancelo, Cuadrado, Dybala, Marchisio, Pjanic, Khedira, Matuidi....

I mean at least the first 9 on that list...
Definitely wouldn't class any of them world class from the 14/15 season onwards. Not in Italy, anyway. Ronaldo was, but at Madrid. Cancelo became one after leaving, and he was my first choice fb so I rated him highly long before his move to City.

No chance for the rest. The 3 Juve CBs have an argument, though. Probably the only ones since Tevez.
 

Bepi

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Nope. He came as a very good player - like in Italy - and carried on developing.

Definitely wouldn't class any of them world class from the 14/15 season onwards. Not in Italy, anyway. Ronaldo was, but at Madrid. Cancelo became one after leaving, and he was my first choice fb so I rated him highly long before his move to City.

No chance for the rest. The 3 Juve CBs have an argument, though. Probably the only ones since Tevez.
A bit harsh, maybe? Bonucci, Chiellini, half the Juve team at its peak and reaching two CL finals in 2015 and 2017, Ronaldo year 1, Alisson and Salah at Roma, Koulibaly and Hamsik at Napoli, Papu Gomez and Ilicic at Atalanta, Donnarumma at Milan… and today: Cuadrado, Chiesa, Theo Hernandez, Kessie, Zapata, Lautaro, Barella, Bastoni, Vlahovic, Berardi. I mean, not being in the PL does not mean they are not world class: you can clearly see they are so good because of their own qualities and intangibles, not because playing well in a weak pond (like Immobile and Insigne, if you still want to be harsh to two EC champions).
 

Yagami

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A bit harsh, maybe? Bonucci, Chiellini, half the Juve team at its peak and reaching two CL finals in 2015 and 2017, Ronaldo year 1, Alisson and Salah at Roma, Koulibaly and Hamsik at Napoli, Papu Gomez and Ilicic at Atalanta, Donnarumma at Milan… and today: Cuadrado, Chiesa, Theo Hernandez, Kessie, Zapata, Lautaro, Barella, Bastoni, Vlahovic, Berardi. I mean, not being in the PL does not mean they are not world class: you can clearly see they are so good because of their own qualities and intangibles, not because playing well in a weak pond (like Immobile and Insigne, if you still want to be harsh to two EC champions).
Ha, it's nothing to do with the PL. City, Chelsea and Liverpool have had a lot, sure, but so have Madrid, Barca, Atletico, Bayern and PSG.

Serie A have had some very good players since Tevez, and, bar the 3 amigos, haven't really had anyone world class, imo. Not even Luis Alberto who's been the leagues closest player to a wc level in recent years.
 

giorno

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Higuain scored 36 goals in one season at Napolu. Ffs
 

SambaBoy

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It's always a futile argument discussing world class players because it depends on what one would class as world class. The opinion or criteria for 'world class' varies from person to person.

Your opinion of world class could be someone who is at the top of their game and one of the best in the top 5 leagues, whilst mine could be the very best in their position and a game changer.
 

Pintu

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Nope. He came as a very good player - like in Italy - and carried on developing.
He must have developed pretty quick then to get voted POTY in his first season back in England. The season in which he scored more goals than any other forward did in a single season since Shearer 95.
But the question I want you to answer is to give a list of WC players playing in the PL right now or in the last 5 seasons ?
 

Markolan

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Bonucci and Chiellini weren't world class in the 2014/2017 triennium?? That's what I call, in italian, a "suicidio critico". It's like saying Freddie Mercury's voice wasn't so great or Kubrick movies are average.

Almost everything is questionable but, just to make an example, in 2017 they pocketed prime MSN and stopped them from scoring in both UCL matches (Bonucci, Chiellini alongside other Juve players of course). Then in the UCL Semifinals faced AS Monaco, the best attacking european team that season, and annihilated them without much problems letting Mbappè score only in the garbage time (If I remember correctly Monaco scored over 150 goals that season and tore into pieces Manchester City defense)

You can't even have doubts about it
 

A-man

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The ref blew the whistle as the shot was leaving Messias' foot. And the AIA has already issued an apology to Milan for the whistle/nullifying the goal and are suspending the referee (within 2hrs of match's end).

What cannot be argued is we should have killed that match off much earlier. Several great chances, and some ridiculous stops from the keeper as well. But alas, despite it, we shouldve left the matc with 3pts, not zero.

I will also continue with saying Zlatan should not be starting.
The ref made a crucial mistake that absolutely cost Milan 3 points. No doubt about that.
I think it works well with alternating Zlatan and Giroud. He could also be used as a sub, at the end of last match Zlatan created many chances and was close to score. Would say he was the best player last third of the game.
 

Red&Black

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CODACONS are now looking and asking for the match between Milan and Spezia to be replayed.
Note: this is NOT Milan asking for it, nor do I think Milan would want/accept that. It's a regulatory body asking for it, due to the confirmed error.

Such a bad and easily avoidable situation. It is compounded by the fact that if you watched the match, the ref allowed play all game, and rarely blew the whistle. This foul was let go all match, and then he goes and does that to cost us 3pts. Ridiculous.
 

Lay

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Osimhen should become world class if injuries can be limited.
 

Bepi

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CODACONS are now looking and asking for the match between Milan and Spezia to be replayed.
Note: this is NOT Milan asking for it, nor do I think Milan would want/accept that. It's a regulatory body asking for it, due to the confirmed error.

Such a bad and easily avoidable situation. It is compounded by the fact that if you watched the match, the ref allowed play all game, and rarely blew the whistle. This foul was let go all match, and then he goes and does that to cost us 3pts. Ridiculous.
Nope, it is an idiot (the barrister leading this association’s self-proclaimed guarantor of the public interest) milking any given controversy to get money for lost causes. If I were you, I would stop moaning and look at the bigger picture: Milan was wildly helped last year to get them back on the spotlight… and you got their fair share of help this year again, together with a few blips like yesterday. Stop acting like there is a conspiration to deny you a title… on the contrary, it is ridiculous a referee must apologise for a perfectly legal whistle… he did not breach any technical rule, was just unconsiderate. If it were Juve on the receiving end, all the sh*t stirrers on this same forum would be laughing their arse out loudly.