You need to do what Chelsea did with Kepa and just bench him. Frankly I doubt your hierarchy has the testicular fortitude to accept accountability for mistakes though - especially given how much good money has been thrown after bad in the form of contract extensions for mediocre players with no business being at a club of United's stature.
How do we sell Harry Maguire?
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So what if he isn’t sole responsible? He’s partly responsible, and for his part, people want him out.
Played well under other managers. We will have a new manager soon. Prob just wait a few months until we have a good manager, hopefully
Unlike Kepa situation, this guy is made captain of team. Changing captaincy by stripping it off him for performance issue is awkward. Get him out even if it's just a loan should be a desired temporary solution, before you can bench him permanently.
His got to go. Shaw probably too. Just sell them, recoup some of the money and move the feck on.
Good point and I appreciate that that might be a complication - but surely though there should be a proper hierarchy? Who even is your vice-captain right now?
Again not to harp on the comparison but at Chelsea the captaincy is Azpilicueta -> Jorginho -> Thiago Silva -> Kante -> Mount
Before Reece James got injured this season, Azpilicueta was benched - the captaincy went to Jorginho and it wasn't a huge deal. I guess I just don't understand why Maguire being captain is reason to tolerate dogshit performances? It's not like he's a good leader who helps lift the side up by leading by example...
Bruno Fernandes was the captain the last time when Maguire was not fit to start. De Gea was captain for a few occasions. I am not sure. We have been lacking the leadership hierarchy for a while now. The reason why Maguire was soon made captain in the same year he bought in, after Valencia and Ashley Young left.
The situation is more complicated for us. Maguire is the most durable of our CBs. We more often than not don't have the luxury for CB rotation to begin with, and should prioritize resting our better CBs now: Varane. Also Maguire supposed to be in prime year. Not too old that reasonable to rest him without question. Basically it's our Mourinho first year all over again with every week Rooney question.
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Maguire is performing below the level he set in previous seasons, but I think on numerous occasions he has also been let down by poor organisation and errors made by his teammates. It leads to goals where he gets the blame, but really when it's broken down there's so much that has gone wrong elsewhere that he gets an overinflated portion of such blame. He's not having a good season, but he's played well enough before that I'd much rather we persist with him and get him back to his best.
This is something that happened in the Liverpool thrashing especially. It also happened tonight for Burnley's goal. They win the ball deep in their half and if you actually look at the clip you see United has no midfielder within 30 yards of the centre circle. Normally you'd expect someone to be there to screen the defence and cut off potential passes. But there's nobody there.
Weghorst can drop deeper which causes Maguire to follow. McTominay is only now getting back into position and charges at the ball, misses and collides into Maguire. Now Maguire had also been turned by Weghorst so he has made his own error here. But there was still a chance he can make a recovery. McTominay should have either slotted into the position vacated by Maguire, or he should have been in position to screen the defence and not been 30 yards away from his zone. There's plenty of blame to go around and Maguire deserves some of it. It's just that everything is being heaped on him when really there's plenty to go around.
This is something that happened in the Liverpool thrashing especially. It also happened tonight for Burnley's goal. They win the ball deep in their half and if you actually look at the clip you see United has no midfielder within 30 yards of the centre circle. Normally you'd expect someone to be there to screen the defence and cut off potential passes. But there's nobody there.
Weghorst can drop deeper which causes Maguire to follow. McTominay is only now getting back into position and charges at the ball, misses and collides into Maguire. Now Maguire had also been turned by Weghorst so he has made his own error here. But there was still a chance he can make a recovery. McTominay should have either slotted into the position vacated by Maguire, or he should have been in position to screen the defence and not been 30 yards away from his zone. There's plenty of blame to go around and Maguire deserves some of it. It's just that everything is being heaped on him when really there's plenty to go around.
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That's a load of bs.
Yes we can do with a better defensive midfielder. No doubt. However, with a inferior defensive midfielder, this goal would be easily preventable with a sane decent CB. We were well regrouped before the pass to Weghorst released; and Burnley momentum was reduced to snail pace. Maguire had a moment of tactical brainfart which gave Weghorst time to control the ball. The offside line was good. The pass to Weghorst was so obvious. Why Maguire back away from Weghorst and running back for a bit, before coming back to Weghorst only to overcommit? After Weghorst brought the ball under his control, there was no reason for Maguire to over commit like that if not for tactical foul purpose. Maguire did none of that.
McTominay made mistake in his pressure choice, however, it's a complete nonsense to ask McTominay to sit before an organized back 4 all the time in team is heading for a high press and high line system. He played well within the tactical framework.
Maguire deserved 99% the blame for this goal. Created something out of nothing for opposition. This is not his first or a few far apart. He has form of gifting chances to opposition.
We definitely hadn't regrouped when the pass was made to Weghorst. There was still far too much space for him to drop into unopposed which is where a midfielder should have been.
It's entirely the point I'm making about errors elsewhere leading to a cascade of bad decisions and eventually to a conceded goal. But it's not all on one player. Maguire has to commit to Weghorst because if he's allowed time on the ball he can pick a different pass out. McTominay, seeing Weghorst dropping deep and Maguire following, has a choice to either occupy the space Maguire vacated, or he can continue into the box to mark the space there and maybe snuff out an attack. He did neither and ran into his own player.
Maguire is not blameless for this goal or another half dozen we've conceded this season. But it's far more team based than on any one player.
Solskjær did a lot of things wrong, but making Maguire captain was his worst decision by a country mile.
SO I'm guessing you are suggesting Lindelof is a better partner for Verane? You do realize that De Gea was just voted EPL player of the month? SOmething no keeper has done for quite a while. And during the month of January when De Gea had to bail us out on several occassions, guess who wasn't playing? Maguire. In fact, the only game that he played 90 minutes in was the only game De Gea had nothing to do (West Ham). but go on...tell me again how Lindelof is better...
Maguire's general positioning and awareness is astoundingly poor. He tends to challenge his own players more often than not for the ball. I suspect its a mental issue as I refuse to believe a defender worth that much is that poor/technically ignorant
But we were already winning. It was his mistake that handed us the draw. We should have scored more but even if we didn't, what our attackers did was enough to win us the game... Until slabhead decided to have his fun.
I think Maguire and AWB were perfect when we used to play plain counter attacking football under Ole. Yes we paid too much for them but they fit the system we used to play.
However, as soon as we tried to play on the front foot they became deadwood. Right now even Lindelof is more suited to this system and that won't change under a new manager unless we suddenly return to counter attacking football and defending in compact low block.
He was the only passing option. Maguire's job to stay close to him. What did he do? Sacred of ghost runner, and came into his senses second later after Weghorst had the ball under control, and had all the composure for his next move and string Maguire along like a schoolboy.
Your defense for Maguire failed for that reason. There was no reason for Maguire to leave Weghorst because Burnley have no better option than passing to Weghorst, and by then McTominay already recovered lost ground. Then Maguire continued his series of brain fart by commit his body.
McTominay was running straight at the direction Weghorst was facing. It's a very normal direction to apply pressure. What abnormal was Maguire who was behind Weghorst at this moment charging blindly yet missing both the body and the ball. It's hard to tackle from behind, so why bother, but it's so easy to commit a tactical foul against a tall player. Maguire made the impossible.
Also Weghorst has very few option after he received the pass. He chose a very difficult options to turn on Maguire direction, and surprisingly it was the best outcome.
no Maguire fecking up again cost us the game.
Just some of the quotes worthy of a chuckle so far
...and a few worthy of
or I would guess we probably don't as selling him after some of the worst form in his career is an equation where you can only lose.
A better idea is probably to find some genuine competition for the role. Some convincing competition. The problem with the current bunch of CBs is they just aren't, they all come with a history of averageness or unreliability themselves.
A better idea is probably to find some genuine competition for the role. Some convincing competition. The problem with the current bunch of CBs is they just aren't, they all come with a history of averageness or unreliability themselves.
Exactly, the facts are, we didn’t fail to score, so we would have won had we not conceded. And Maguire played a big part in that.
Maguire has cost us a lot this season, but I don't think we can afford to sell him. We're going to have too much to do in the summer. There are going to be a lot of players leaving, and some have to be replaced. Some of our plans are going to have to wait until summer 2023. Maguire will be one of them. If we try and offload Maguire and replace him, that's one position that won't be filled elsewhere. Most likely in midfield.
It's both. We have a lot of problems upfront as well and that was supposed to be a strong area for us.
When he signed with United, apparently, Maguire got a six year contract with an additional option year. Even after the current season, he will have at least three seasons remaining. So, this means that he won't move unless one or both of these must be met. United take a big loss on the transfer value and the asset value, or Maguire volunteers a big loss on his take. United have shown that they will do anything to preserve the values of the assets, even extending contracts of old and seldom used players. A player rarely takes a cut.
Maguire is here to stay. It is more likely he will get an extension after next season, his fourth with United. It is probably better to bring in credible competition for playing time.
Maguire is here to stay. It is more likely he will get an extension after next season, his fourth with United. It is probably better to bring in credible competition for playing time.
I've laid out and elaborated on my points twice. I'm not defending Maguire. I've already said he deserves some blame for the goal. I'm also saying that it's far too rudimentary an analysis to look at that goal and apportion all the blame on one player. Yet you're not engaging on that, sweeping under the carpet any potential errors made by others, and heaping it all one one player. You're actively ignoring all the issues around the pitch and focusing on just one area. Which is ten entire thrust of my first post.
I can say the same thing about your approach. Failing to recognize our defensive organization had been able to regroup: eliminating Jay Rodriguez from the equation with offside trap. Dalot was on no 20. Pogba tracked back adequately to narrow the passer down to the obvious passing option to Weghorst who was initially very close to Maguire. That's a very comfortable situation to defend. Far enough from our goal so we have time to recover and we can afford to commit tactical foul if we slight slip up. We have number advantage. The angle of the key passes: being forced out to wide area, we can fully predict the next move.
Maguire switched off by a ghost and allowed Weghorst time to come toward the pass and comfortably control the ball. Then charge blindly allow Weghorst to turn inside break our shape, get Jay Rodriguez on side before the assist. This is very obvious individual error as it gets. That's almost making the impossible for Weghorst.
McTominay made errors with his pressing choice higher up the pitch but those thing happened and within consideration especially for team using high line and a high press. The situation afterward is highly containable. A better defensive midfielder would help this team a lot. However, we will face with issue replacing Maguire. He has been beaten easily in this kind of situation too often where he gift chances to opposition out of nowhere. Even the best defensive midfielder would throw in towel on that. Nobody can't anticipate for such failure in basic defending.
Agree to disagree and rest my case if you fail to see even that basic football tactic level.
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Cute.
Yeah I've just seen it back now, poor defending for the goal all round. Poor in both instances from Maguire and inexcusable from Shaw playing the lad onside but you've also got to be looking at the midfield there, it's a disgusting goal to concede.
Flip side is you were suggesting we play Phil Jones instead who as much as I like him, averages more clangers per game than any other defender we've had during the PL era.
And the other alternate was Lindelof who we all know gets bullied all night by that big lad.
I hope we haven't missed our opportunity to sell him to Newcastle for 50M. If he can do okay for the next few months (his overall form the last little bit isn't terrible, just his usual horrible mistakes in space) and we can sneak 4th and move him on and get Varane a proper partner that would be best case scenario.
At best he is a £10-15m squad player. Not remotely captain material. What was the qualification for this - owner of the largest forehead gets the arm band??
He should probably have been given a red. Strikes me as a player who will age poorly and should really be looking to move to a club like Atletico who sit deeper and play on the counter. He's 28 and if he loses a yard of pace he'll be in huge trouble as he probably can't adjust to that. Great in the air.
Yea, for that gameplan they were effective. Playing a low block, they did there job and was the reason why we had one of the best defense in Europe then. But a switch in gameplan and as we try to play on the front foot, they became less effective. I am not sure if either can adapt, but that doesn't mean that they should be disposable. Playing low block and counter attack is a good approach to use against more possessions oriented team. So, I don't think we should sell until we see what our next manager plan is and how flexible he is with his tactics
He's slow and shit and needs to go. Need to cut our losses with the guy and hopefully someone will bid 30-40 m for him or we can loan him out of the country until his contract expires.
I'd keep AWB for sure. He is a good defender and I still think he can improve on other aspects of his game.
The question is whether we want to keep 80m signing who is also our captain on the bench. If there is no sensible offer then yeah hopefully he can adapt and find some form.
He's not good enough to be United's player, he's fecking clumsy and usually makes a lot of silly mistakes.
We can't keep both AWB and Dalot and look for another RB option, i'd keep Dalot ahead of AWB, Dalot has more upside and we can still get some money back for AWB.
Try to sell him for 30m. He is England international and still in his “peak” years, should be able to find some takers at that price.
Or we could try for player swap for Rice, 70m plus Maguire will do.
Or we could try for player swap for Rice, 70m plus Maguire will do.
Supertanker. Please bin for scrap metal.
It's not even his speed or lack of agility as much as it is his inability to read the game. Bizarre just how bad he is
What a terrible player
Flog him to Roma for 40m, Mourinho is a big fan.
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