Russian invasion of Ukraine | Fewer tweets, more discussion

[hellhunter]

If you carefully analyse his music, the notes spell out a very anti-NATO message.

Yvan eht nioj?

 

[LDUred]

If you carefully analyse his music, the notes spell out a very anti-NATO message.

No. It is all a consequence of Russia waging a needless war of aggression upon a peaceful, sovereign state against a backdrop of concocted lies and false flags.

The same as people in the West face energy hikes and fuel poverty, a talented Russian pianist gets his concerts cancelled. For the people whom are not directly affected by the fighting, life sucks for us all in many ways, but we are not the victims, and neither is he.

No-one wants to be 'entertained' by someone who is associated with a terror state. I am pretty sure Germans weren't in high demand for shows during the II World War.

Let's put this in perspective: he is being asked not to play his piano for the foreseeable. He and his supporters can cry about that on Twitter while people in Ukraine dig mass graves or watch on helplessly as corpses are eaten by dogs. They are the victims.

 

[africanspur]

No. It is all a consequence of Russia waging a needless war of aggression upon a peaceful, sovereign state against a backdrop of concocted lies and false flags.

The same as people in the West face energy hikes and fuel poverty, a talented Russian pianist gets his concerts cancelled. For the people whom are not directly affected by the fighting, life sucks for us all in many ways, but we are not the victims, and neither is he.

Let's put this in perspective: he is being asked not to play his piano for the foreseeable. He and his supporters can cry about that on Twitter while people in Ukraine dig mass graves or watch on helplessly as corpses are eaten by dogs.

So are all Russians scum now?

Just asking so I know how I can interact with them for the foreseeable future.

 

[ColvaleGoa]

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[UweBein]

Yep... a bit crazy that... russian citizens in Germany have been asked by their banks to provide proof of resident status. Many of them living in Germany for >20 years.

 

[africanspur]

In terms of the war itself, what are the updates? Seems Russia has besieged multiple cities in the South and East (Sumy, Mariupol etc) and is trying to break the spirits of the defenders there with heavy bombing?

But that things have come to a bit of a standstill in Kiev and they're making minimal gains there?

And after 2 weeks, you can only really say they've taken one city?

 

[ooeat0meoo]

So are all Russians scum now?

Just asking so I know how I can interact with them for the foreseeable future.

In terms of the war itself, what are the updates? Seems Russia has besieged multiple cities in the South and East (Sumy, Mariupol etc) and is trying to break the spirits of the defenders there with heavy bombing?

But that things have come to a bit of a standstill in Kiev and they're making minimal gains there?

And after 2 weeks, you can only really say they've taken one city?

There are 551 pages of updates, here
Happy reading.

As far as treating all Russians like scum...
That's your choice. Most of the world has just chosen a more civilized way of dealing with Russia by not dealing with Russians.
In the event that you might have a slightly more evolved perspective, there are some Russians fleeing their country because of what's happening in Ukraine and as a result in their own country. I wouldn't recommend treating any random Russian like shit.

 

[africanspur]

There are 551 pages of updates, here
Happy reading.

As far as treating all Russians like scum...
That's your choice. Most of the world has just chosen a more civilized way of dealing with Russia by not dealing with Russians.

Thanks for the helpful response, I'll leave it to others to provide the most recent updates if they wish for those who have been following the thread and news but don't have the time and ability to know what's going on on a daily basis.

Excluding all nationals of a country, even those who have nothing to do with their country's actions, who actively oppose them and have chosen to make their lives outside of said country, is not a civilised approach.

 

[Rightnr]

Yep... a bit crazy that... russian citizens in Germany have been asked by their banks to provide proof of resident status. Many of them living in Germany for >20 years.

I don't like this trend of blaming Russians (and Belarusians) for the atrocities of Putin, especially ones that have chosen to make their home outside of Russia and have seemingly no connection to the Putin regime.

As for the above, don't Russians need visas to reside in Germany and have to reapply regularly for renewal? It just smacks of overdoing it and literally cancelling a whole nation.

 

[VorZakone]

In terms of the war itself, what are the updates? Seems Russia has besieged multiple cities in the South and East (Sumy, Mariupol etc) and is trying to break the spirits of the defenders there with heavy bombing?

But that things have come to a bit of a standstill in Kiev and they're making minimal gains there?

And after 2 weeks, you can only really say they've taken one city?

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[JPRouve]

Thanks for the helpful response, I'll leave it to others to provide the most recent updates if they wish for those who have been following the thread and news but don't have the time and ability to know what's going on on a daily basis.

Excluding all nationals of a country, even those who have nothing to do with their country's actions, who actively oppose them and have chosen to make their lives outside of said country, is not a civilised approach.

I was going to give you the example of Svidler, a russian GM, he commentates chess tournaments and made it clear that he was against the war, he stated it live and Chess24 actually shared the clip on their twitter account. Despite that people keep asking why he isn't banned, why he is allowed to commentate and so on. A lot of people don't care about sense or being civilized.

 

[phelans shorts]

I don't like this trend of blaming Russians (and Belarusians) for the atrocities of Putin, especially ones that have chosen to make their home outside of Russia and have seemingly no connection to the Putin regime.

As for the above, don't Russians need visas to reside in Germany and have to reapply regularly for renewal? It just smacks of overdoing it and literally cancelling a whole nation.

These kinds of moves are only going to aid Putin’s nationalistic base. It’s a fine line between making clear your issue is with the Russian state and not Russia in and of itself. Unfortunately in their attempts at appearing clever many are falling into Russophobic moves and attacking random Russians who aren’t even in Russia any more for actions of which that have absolutely no involvement in.

It’s pretty disgusting in all honesty.

 

[africanspur]

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Thanks very much, appreciate it.

I was going to give you the example of Svidler, a russian GM, he commentates chess tournaments and made it clear that he was against the war, he stated it live and Chess24 actually shared the clip on their twitter account. Despite that people keep asking why he isn't banned, why he is allowed to commentate and so on. A lot of people don't care about sense or being civilized.

Very true and honestly really sad as well.

 

[Rightnr]

These kinds of moves are only going to aid Putin’s nationalistic base. It’s a fine line between making clear your issue is with the Russian state and not Russia in and of itself. Unfortunately in their attempts at appearing clever many are falling into Russophobic moves and attacking random Russians who aren’t even in Russia any more for actions of which that have absolutely no involvement in.

It’s pretty disgusting in all honesty.

What's really dangerous is how this rhetoric is often a precursor to a bigger conflict.

Set the population against the 'enemy' and it's so much easier to take the pain, approve wartime 'sacrifices' and spending on weapons.

Then again, there has been a trend in the West for a long time to cancel dissenting opinions which has been the reason that Putin has got so far as well. Sometimes the truth is not convenient.

 

[nimic]

The Norwegian government has made it easier for Ukrainian refugees to come to Norway. Basically their refugee status will no longer be based on the individual, but a membership in the collective group (essentially Ukrainians, but also others who lived in Ukraine up until the war). Ukrainians could still apply for asylum if they made it to Norway (and it would be granted), but there were some concerns that legally speaking, Norwegians (or others) who transported Ukrainians without a biometric passport to Norway (which many are doing, with buses or their own cars) would be considered human traffickers. Also, they'll be able to work in Norway for at least a year, and have the right to bring their family into the country.

 

[The Firestarter]

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*warhead retargetting noises*

 

[GlastonSpur]

Russia playing with fire if they look at targeting NATO convoys

They're not NATO convoys. They are convoys carrying weapons and supplies - some from NATO, some not - driven by Ukrainians or other volunteers.

 

[ooeat0meoo]

What's really dangerous is how this rhetoric is often a precursor to a bigger conflict.

Set the population against the 'enemy' and it's so much easier to take the pain, approve wartime 'sacrifices' and spending on weapons.

Then again, there has been a trend in the West for a long time to cancel dissenting opinions which has been the reason that Putin has got so far as well. Sometimes the truth is not convenient.

There are horrific war crimes happening in Ukraine.
As someone who was very involved in being a dissenting voice in America (Not getting into all that here), the only gains Putin has made is with the dumbest of the left and right.
In addition, I've been a constant critic of western media in the US. As far as the coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I can't say I've seen any dishonest or manipulative coverage.

 

[Pintu]

They're not NATO convoys. They are convoys carrying weapons and supplies - some from NATO, some not - driven by Ukrainians or other volunteers.

But they will be driven through the polish borders, if Russia attacks a convoy in polish soil, it would be an attack on NATO.

 

[Frosty]

But they will be driven through the polish borders, if Russia attacks a convoy in polish soil, it would be an attack on NATO.

I would be shocked if the Russian military did that. But then again I thought they would never invade.

 

[JPRouve]

I would be shocked if the Russian military did that. But then again I thought they would never invade.

There is a real chance that they can't properly read maps or GPS coordinates, so...

 

[Rightnr]

There are horrific war crimes happening in Ukraine.
As someone who was very involved in being a dissenting voice in America (Not getting into all that here), the only gains Putin has made is with the dumbest of the left and right.
In addition, I've been a constant critic of western media in the US. As far as the coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I can't say I've seen any dishonest or manipulative coverage.

Not blaming the media but you know the layman won't be as good as journalists in making the distinction.

Stirring up a certain sentiment can happen even if not done on purpose.

 

[harms]

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/it-s-ab...y-russian-piano-prodigy-in-montreal-1.5814506

Have people lost their minds?

The worst thing is that cultural isolation works for Putin, not against him. He's been trying to achieve that for years and the world now making it even easier for him.

I've been a constant critic of western media in the US. As far as the coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I can't say I've seen any dishonest or manipulative coverage.

There's been plenty of that to be fair even though for the most time I'd use the word "biased" instead of dishonest/manipulative which infers conscious and malicious lying. Debunking that seems a bit counter-productive though, especially with an incomparable shower of Orwellian shit that the Russian media are putting out there daily.

 

[phelans shorts]

What's really dangerous is how this rhetoric is often a precursor to a bigger conflict.

Set the population against the 'enemy' and it's so much easier to take the pain, approve wartime 'sacrifices' and spending on weapons.

Then again, there has been a trend in the West for a long time to cancel dissenting opinions which has been the reason that Putin has got so far as well. Sometimes the truth is not convenient.

Well, quite. Don’t even get me started on the “necessary pain” of fuel price rises because god forbid oil companies not make record profits because of this.

There are horrific war crimes happening in Ukraine.
As someone who was very involved in being a dissenting voice in America (Not getting into all that here), the only gains Putin has made is with the dumbest of the left and right.
In addition, I've been a constant critic of western media in the US. As far as the coverage of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I can't say I've seen any dishonest or manipulative coverage.

Ok, but what has that got to do with the (openly anti war)Russian chess commentator who people are calling for being removed from coverage? Or all those Russians mentioned living in Germany for a long ass time now being required to prove their residency status?

What the Russian army are doing on behalf of the Russian state is horrible, literally nobody is arguing that it isn’t, but being Russian isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime. The totalitarian response against any and all things Russian will as I mentioned only fuel support for Putin. Siege mentality and all that.

 

[Beans]

It's a "funny" situation: I'm not sure you could really blame the Russians for attacking a weapon's transport to their opponents in this war (as long as it happens inside the actual war zone at least), but then Nato couldn't just say "fair enough" either if it actually happened.

US shipping being attached was a major contributing factor to our joining WWII, might be the beginning of another war here.

 

[harms]

No. It is all a consequence of Russia waging a needless war of aggression upon a peaceful, sovereign state against a backdrop of concocted lies and false flags.

The same as people in the West face energy hikes and fuel poverty, a talented Russian pianist gets his concerts cancelled. For the people whom are not directly affected by the fighting, life sucks for us all in many ways, but we are not the victims, and neither is he.

No-one wants to be 'entertained' by someone who is associated with a terror state. I am pretty sure Germans weren't in high demand for shows during the II World War.

Let's put this in perspective: he is being asked not to play his piano for the foreseeable. He and his supporters can cry about that on Twitter while people in Ukraine dig mass graves or watch on helplessly as corpses are eaten by dogs. They are the victims.

The Oscar-winning 1942 World War II classic “Casablanca” is just one of many films populated with these exiles. Actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt, Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Leonid Kinskey, Helmut Dantine, Marcel Dalio, Ludwig Stossel and Wolfgang Zilzer all came to America to avoid Nazi rule.

The only thing that the politics of discriminating Russian nationals that live outside of Russia (or inside it but not support Putin, but that's another matter) achieve is helping Putin's propagandistic agenda of world-wide russophobia that needs to be countered by any action possible... including the invasion of Ukraine (or the special military operation as he insists on calling it).

 

[ooeat0meoo]

Well, quite. Don’t even get me started on the “necessary pain” of fuel price rises because god forbid oil companies not make record profits because of this.
Ok, but what has that got to do with the (openly anti war)Russian chess commentator who people are calling for being removed from coverage? Or all those Russians mentioned living in Germany for a long ass time now being required to prove their residency status?

What the Russian army are doing on behalf of the Russian state is horrible, literally nobody is arguing that it isn’t, but being Russian isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime. The totalitarian response against any and all things Russian will as I mentioned only fuel support for Putin. Siege mentality and all that.

Kasparov and the Russian Chess Federation are against the actions of Putin. So, what are you talking about?

Sanctions on Russia are hugely popular throughout the world. Arguing against sanctions won't get you very far here, sorry.

(I'm dealing with a winter blizzard here, likely will lose power. Someone else please deal with these stupid questions.)

 

[GlastonSpur]

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Israel ech? We should really be treating them the same as Russia. Total isolation.

It should be pointed out that Bennett has denied advised Zelenskyy to surrender to Russia. Indeed, a senior Israeli official says that "Israel is suggesting that Russia should assess events more adequately"

Re. the Iron Dome missile defence, this point may be moot because I'd imagine (but don't know) that it takes very considerable to training to operate - training that the Ukrainians don't have - to be able to use it.

Holodomor happened 90 years ago - it's hardly relevant to the here-and-now of Russia's invasion

The sanctions issue is a fair point.

 

[GlastonSpur]

But they will be driven through the polish borders, if Russia attacks a convoy in polish soil, it would be an attack on NATO.

Yes, but I doubt Russia is threatening that.

 

[The Firestarter]

Re. the Iron Dome missile defence, this point may be moot because I'd imagine (but don't know) that it takes very considerable to training to operate - training that the Ukrainians don't have - to be able to use it.

I think that denial happened years ago.

 

[africanspur]

The Oscar-winning 1942 World War II classic “Casablanca” is just one of many films populated with these exiles. Actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt, Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Leonid Kinskey, Helmut Dantine, Marcel Dalio, Ludwig Stossel and Wolfgang Zilzer all came to America to avoid Nazi rule.

The only thing that the politics of discriminating Russian nationals that live outside of Russia (or inside it but not support Putin, but that's another matter) achieve is helping Putin's propagandistic agenda of world-wide russophobia that needs to be countered by any action possible... including the invasion of Ukraine (or the special military operation as he insists on calling it).

Exiled German Scientists didn't do too badly either.

Agreed with you that these moves only serve to strengthen Putin's group on Russia further and potentially drive even some of those Russians who don't support him into his arms eventually.

 

[phelans shorts]

Kasparov and the Russian Chess Federation are against the actions of Putin. So, what are you talking about?

Sanctions on Russia are hugely popular throughout the world. Arguing against sanctions won't get you very far here, sorry.

Who argued against sanctions? In fact I’m all for them.

I was talking about the Discussion point at hand, which is the outright condemnation we’re seeing against everyone Russian regardless of their opinions. The calls for people being removed from their roles purely because they’re Russian.

As I’ve said numerous times it’s very important that it’s clear that the problem is against the Russian state, banning a pianist who’s openly protesting against the war because he happens to have been born in Russia helps Putin in that he can paint the western world as Russophobic. Honestly seeing some of the rhetoric we’ve seen in the last two weeks it’s hard to argue that sentiment isn’t growing massively, which should worry absolutely everyone.

 

[Raoul]

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Israel ech? We should really be treating them the same as Russia. Total isolation.

The Israelis are obviously going to play the fence like a stratovarius to maximize their relationships with as many international players as possible. Therefore not taking a strong position against Putin, however wrong, is not entirely nonsensical from their perspective. Criticism of Putin would obviously also draw an unneeded spotlight to their own policies next door. I think this posture will hurt them in the long run and Bennett will end up looking as much a grandstanding geopolitical clown as Macron has.

 

[JPRouve]

The Oscar-winning 1942 World War II classic “Casablanca” is just one of many films populated with these exiles. Actors Paul Henreid, Conrad Veidt, Lorre, S.Z. Sakall, Leonid Kinskey, Helmut Dantine, Marcel Dalio, Ludwig Stossel and Wolfgang Zilzer all came to America to avoid Nazi rule.

The only thing that the politics of discriminating Russian nationals that live outside of Russia (or inside it but not support Putin, but that's another matter) achieve is helping Putin's propagandistic agenda of world-wide russophobia that needs to be countered by any action possible... including the invasion of Ukraine (or the special military operation as he insists on calling it).

I'm actually more interested in that. Again if we take the example of Svidler, who rightfully hasn't been cancelled. He made his statement while living in Russia, the same applies to Nepo, in practice aren't they taking more risks than others? Chess is a popular game around the world and they are pretty big names.

 

[2cents]

The Israelis are obviously going to play the fence like a stratovarius to maximize their relationships with as many international players as possible. Therefore not taking a strong position against Putin, however wrong, is not entirely nonsensical from their perspective. Criticism of Putin would obviously also draw an unneeded spotlight to their own policies next door. I think this posture will hurt them in the long run and Bennett will end up looking as much as a grandstanding geopolitical clown as Macron has.

They have to deal with the Russian military right next door in Syria, and require a good relationship with Moscow to maintain their freedom of action there. That’ll be Jerusalem’s number one immediate priority.

 

[Blodssvik]

Well, quite. Don’t even get me started on the “necessary pain” of fuel price rises because god forbid oil companies not make record profits because of this.




Ok, but what has that got to do with the (openly anti war)Russian chess commentator who people are calling for being removed from coverage? Or all those Russians mentioned living in Germany for a long ass time now being required to prove their residency status?

What the Russian army are doing on behalf of the Russian state is horrible, literally nobody is arguing that it isn’t, but being Russian isn’t and shouldn’t be a crime. The totalitarian response against any and all things Russian will as I mentioned only fuel support for Putin. Siege mentality and all that.

Well at least Garry Kasparov is respected in the US. The guy who wanted to bomb not only Baghdad but also Damascus, Riyadh and Teheran in 2002 before the Iraq invasion. He was good at chess so we must listen to his opinions.

 

[africanspur]

Kasparov and the Russian Chess Federation are against the actions of Putin. So, what are you talking about?

Sanctions on Russia are hugely popular throughout the world. Arguing against sanctions won't get you very far here, sorry.

(I'm dealing with a winter blizzard here, likely will lose power. Someone else please deal with these stupid questions.)

I assume he's talking about Svidler, who @JPRouve mentioned above.

That poster didn't mention sanctions in their post so I'm not really sure why you've said that but regardless, it isn't actually accurate to state they're hugely popular throughout the world. They're popular in the global North; North America, Europe, Australasia, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan.

Central and South America, Africa, almost all of the rest of Asia (ie 'The Global South', rather more conspicuous in their absence).

Interested in how you would have wanted to be treated as an American considering what you're arguing on here now regarding Russians and your own beliefs on the actions of the US government in the past (if I'm thinking of the right poster).

 

[Raoul]

They have to deal with the Russian military right next door in Syria, and require a good relationship with Moscow to maintain their freedom of action there. That’ll be Jerusalem’s number one immediate priority.

Good point. They also have do carefully navigate the reality that Soviets/Russians have historically been sympathetic to Palestinian statehood and wouldn't want that sentiment to entrench any further.

 

[Drifter]

Biden Says U.S. Won’t Send ‘Offensive Weapons’ with American Crews to Ukraine: ‘That’s Called World War Three, Okay?’

 

[harms]

I'm actually more interested in that. Again if we take the example of Svidler, who rightfully hasn't been cancelled. He made his statement while living in Russia, the same applies to Nepo, in practice aren't they taking more risks than others? Chess is a popular game around the world and they are pretty big names.

Yes they do. No one cares about big names anymore even though I don't thing that anyone of note had been prosecuted for the new "anti-fake law" or for the law that criminalises "the discreditation of actions of the Russian military". For example the Chairman of the State Duma Vyacheslav Volodin had said that all cultural workers (including famous singers, actors etc.) that signed anti-war open letters or stated their disagreement with Putin's actions have to be ostracised for being collaborators and traitors to the nation. Most of those who had an option of leaving the country, did — even someone like Ivan Urgant, who had his own Saturday Night Live-esque show on the biggest Russian federal channel (he never participated in pro-Putin propaganda to be fair and he was even allowed to make very direct jokes about our government/politics before the invasion. He's been taken off the air & is now apparently in Israel, although it hasn't been confirmed). Maxim Galkin, a very conformist comedian who is very popular in elderly demographics had his concerts cancelled including anti-Galkin demonstrations (most likely staged by the state) at the airport where he had landed before the show — again, after publishing an anti-war statement around the beginning of all of this mess. And those are bigger names than Chess GMs that aren't really that well-known to the general public.

The new laws have only been introduced for about a week, I think, and there have already been hundreds of criminal cases opened — it's only a matter of time before they'll take some big name in as an example.