[SadlerMUFC]

In fairness, I did say "heading towards".

It's a hypothetical one, but his evolution was such that yes, I think he would've hit Roy Keane levels.

One game in that season against Arsenal sticks our. He was bossing the entire Arsenal midfield. I Wouldn't be surprised if they had two priests, a young one and an old one, waiting in the changing room at full time.

It's a shame that his illness struck him down when it did.

We've seen games where McTominay also bosses the midfield. They are few and far between but in those games (Leeds last year comes to mind) he wasn't playing as a #6. He was playing as a #8.

Look...I don't think McTominay is the second coming of any of our former greats. I just think he's a decent squad player and that the biggest problem is that people are judging him based on him playing a position that doesn't suit him as he is not, and never will be a good DM. We've seen how good Fred has been lately playing further up the field in the #8. Unfortunately for McT, he's still stuck trying to play DM and he just can't do it. Matic should start every single game for the rest of the season...

 

[rk4utd]

He’s bang average - was bang average - and will be bang average when he’s 30. He must be a ‘lovely lad’ and ‘good trainer’ because come match day he’s usually - you guessed it - average. Does any one really think he’s united class? If so, good grief…..

 

[MadDogg]

It's a hypothetical one, but his evolution was such that yes, I think he would've hit Roy Keane levels.

Fletch was obviously a much better player than McTominay and he was reaching a very good level before his illness, but let's not go overboard. Keane is arguably the best, or at least the most influential, midfielder of the Premier League era. Fletch was never reaching that level or even particularly close. Even if he got to borderline world class level (which he might have if he'd kept improving as he was), that's still significantly behind Keano.

 

[Foxbatt]

Somebody here yelled at me and said he was all set to be the next Roy Keane when illness took over

yes I was not pointing that at you but agreeing with you. Some fans love players who put in an effort and Fletcher was one of those but world class? Never. McTominay hides from the play. he cannot pass well and he does not know what to do when we have the ball. His movements off the ball is very poor.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

yes I was not pointing that at you but agreeing with you. Some fans love players who put in an effort and Fletcher was one of those but world class? Never. McTominay hides from the play. he cannot pass well and he does not know what to do when we have the ball. His movements off the ball is very poor.

See...this is where we are going to disagree. But not with what you probably think. In my mind he's been playing mostly as a #6, and in that position you need to be disciplined and (for the most part) sit in front of the back two and allow the FB's to get forward. So while you say he has poor movement off the ball, I think he shouldn't move too much off the ball and be more disciplined and in fact, i think he is moving around too much

 

[Foxbatt]

See...this is where we are going to disagree. But not with what you probably think. In my mind he's been playing mostly as a #6, and in that position you need to be disciplined and (for the most part) sit in front of the back two and allow the FB's to get forward. So while you say he has poor movement off the ball, I think he shouldn't move too much off the ball and be more disciplined and in fact, i think he is moving around too much

Nope. Whenever he plays in any position he does not know what to do when we have the ball. Even when Fred or Matic was playing in the DM role McTominay hides. I did not see much of the game against Leicester. He probably is moving around too much so he can avoid receiving the ball?

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Nope. Whenever he plays in any position he does not know what to do when we have the ball. Even when Fred or Matic was playing in the DM role McTominay hides. I did not see much of the game against Leicester. He probably is moving around too much so he can avoid receiving the ball?

He was horrible against Leicester. He was playing DM and wasn't coming back to pick up the balls from the defenders like Matic does. He just doesn't know how to play that position

 

[DomesticTadpole]

See...this is where we are going to disagree. But not with what you probably think. In my mind he's been playing mostly as a #6, and in that position you need to be disciplined and (for the most part) sit in front of the back two and allow the FB's to get forward. So while you say he has poor movement off the ball, I think he shouldn't move too much off the ball and be more disciplined and in fact, i think he is moving around too much

That's why most think he is a box to box. I agree he going wandering off too much. He has to sit in front of that defence, if he likes it or not. When your fullbacks have gone forward you have to become part of the defence.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Herrera didn't want to be here any longer because he felt disrespected by the way Woodward communicated towards him about renewing with the club. His offer was fine, but it was below was PSG offered him. He thought he was more important than he was, but at least United upgraded on him via Fred. Just than United have never replaced Carrick nor committed to playing a collective 3 man midfield.

it was a pay cut

 

[copen1945]

If anyone wants some self-punishment, here is an interesting read.

https://thebusbybabe.sbnation.com/2...-awareness-picked-on-in-manchester-derby-loss

The problems described in this article are seen on most matches. Hopefully, either Ten Hag can correct the problem, or he should move on to another midfielder.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The big difference between Fletcher and Mctominay is that Fletcher was actually a quality footballer. He had a good touch, passed the ball well and had awareness and positioning like a proper central midfielder. Mctominay is all guts, glory and frantic running, the kind Fletcher himself would have come up against the likes of Burnley and all, but he doesn't really have the quality. Barring a few big tackles, driving runs and long range efforts that you can expect from any midfielder, he is simply a technically deficient footballer.

One can hope that ETH somehow transforms him but based on what we've seen, he is bang average.

 

[Chripper]

People slate Scott, but I'm not looking forward to seeing Matic and Pogba going up against Thiago, Fabinho and Henderson.

Does anyone genuinely want to see Matic or Pogba playing as a double-pivot instead of Scott McTominay?

Oh. He's "bang average"? Take out Bruno, DDG and Ronaldo, you could say the very same about every squad member.

There's a reason we'll finish 7th and not just Scott McTominay.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Scott is really poor but obviously nobody wants to see an attacking midfielder in central midfield.

 

[Steven-UK]

He’s bang average - was bang average - and will be bang average when he’s 30. He must be a ‘lovely lad’ and ‘good trainer’ because come match day he’s usually - you guessed it - average. Does any one really think he’s united class? If so, good grief…..

Exactly. The thing I've found with this forum over the last 7 years, is that fans are now accepting mediocrity.

 

[tjb]

Exactly. The thing I've found with this forum over the last 7 years, is that fans are now accepting mediocrity.

Some don't understand that us having no other options doesn't mean Mctominay is good. We would play Schneiderlin in this current squad if he was still at United. That's how bad our midfield options are.

 

[Chripper]

Some don't understand that us having no other options doesn't mean Mctominay is good. We would play Schneiderlin in this current squad if he was still at United. That's how bad our midfield options are.

Fine. Explain why there are fans who don't want Scott McTominay to play? There are tons.

Apparently, those fans would rather play "no other option". These "fans" have such an agenda that they would rather we play with 10 men rather than play McTominay.

 

[NoPace]

I think he might fetch us as a decent fee. He's 25, lots of experience. Could see him moving for 20M or so and that could buy a starting RB if we're clever, for example.

 

[Red_toad]

Exactly. The thing I've found with this forum over the last 7 years, is that fans are now accepting mediocrity.

Forum is full of doom mongering whingebags where do you get they accept mediocrity? Would make a pleasant change if they did, but it’s like reading some anti vax drivel at times on here. Haven’t you noticed that the theme is sell everyone get rid of the owners and pull down the stadium? But yeah you see people accepting things

Scotty & Fred are our best 2 options, moaning about that doesn’t change that they are. When that changes and we have other options, then it’s a fair point to complain. But as the window is closed nothing will happen until the summer, dependant on the next managers wishes,

 

[marktan]

He's not shite as some say he is, but he is a weird player. My personal view of him is that he's good at:
- Tackling, getting up and down the pitch and making a nuisance of himself with his big frame. Noticeably showed how useful that can be in big games over the last 2 or 3 seasons.
- Striking the ball, finishing on the occasion he does get a chance in the box, probably due to being an attacker in the academy
- Occasional fast dribble, due to having a long stride rather than any technical skill

Those traits make him a useful player than on his day can be quite good. The problem is, the things he lacks are:
- A decent passing range
- Ability to technically dribble in tight spots

Which means he's not really that suited to being a midfielder. Scotland play him as a defender but then it negates most of his actual useful qualities. Weird one, is Scott. I wish someone would a spend a year with him just practising passing all day long, if he could increase his range and accuracy he'd actually be a very good midfielder.

 

[Chripper]

Perception in football is so strange at times.

I had a discussion with a Norwich fan earlier, he thinks that Scott McTominay is a really good player.

And yet, the clear majority of fans don't rate Billy Gilmour.

It would be interesting to gauge the opinion of non United fans on Scott McTominay.

 

[Nicolarra90]

People slate Scott, but I'm not looking forward to seeing Matic and Pogba going up against Thiago, Fabinho and Henderson.

Does anyone genuinely want to see Matic or Pogba playing as a double-pivot instead of Scott McTominay?

Oh. He's "bang average"? Take out Bruno, DDG and Ronaldo, you could say the very same about every squad member.

There's a reason we'll finish 7th and not just Scott McTominay.

Curious way of writing fourth

 

[tjb]

Fine. Explain why there are fans who don't want Scott McTominay to play? There are tons.

Apparently, those fans would rather play "no other option". These "fans" have such an agenda that they would rather we play with 10 men rather than play McTominay.

Because our fans like to complain.

 

[Red the Bear]

He's now going to play under his 5th manager in united ( i counted Carrick), so It will be interesting to see whether he retains starting spot.
He has many things that I admire and that seemed to be the case with most of the managers he played under but now it's the question of whether he simply has the quality to play for united or not.
I actually can see him becoming an integral part of ten hag's plan if he improves his passing rage which we've seen glimmers of as he has a tendency to mostly resort to sideways passing but we'll see.
Will be an interesting pre season for the lad .

 

[Idxomer]

He'll start as well as he could then revert to his normal level which is well below what we need.

This is basically what happened with him under every manager.

 

[Chripper]

Because our fans like to complain.

I would "like" this if I could.

 

[rk4utd]

I would "like" this if I could.

I can only assume some of the people on here defending Mctominay’s attributes to play for United based on his career achievements thus far never had the pleasure of seeing Robson,Ince, Keane, Scholes,Carrick, Butt - Christ I’d even add Anderson before he got distracted - not to mention Wilkins, Muhren, Whiteside. If you think Mctominay is as good as them then you are genuinely deluded.

For me the above list represents the standard of a United central midfield player. Mctominay has shown little to suggest he will ever get to that standard I’m afraid. If that makes me a ‘complainer’ then I can live with that.

Personally I’d call it ‘expecting United standards’. Sorry for being unreasonable.

 

[Chripper]

I can only assume some of the people on here defending Mctominay’s attributes to play for United based on his career achievements thus far never had the pleasure of seeing Robson,Ince, Keane, Scholes,Carrick, Butt - Christ I’d even add Anderson before he got distracted - not to mention Wilkins, Muhren, Whiteside. If you think Mctominay is as good as them then you are genuinely deluded.

For me the above list represents the standard of a United central midfield player. Mctominay has shown little to suggest he will ever get to that standard I’m afraid. If that makes me a ‘complainer’ then I can live with that.

Personally I’d call it ‘expecting United standards’. Sorry for being unreasonable.

Oh. I had the pleasure.

I was around at the back-end on the Robson days and I fully loved and appreciated the Keane, Fletcher, Ince, Scholes and Carrick days. I'll add Park and Butt to the list.

Who said that McTominay is as good as any of the above? Creating your own narrative?

Must be gutted that McTominay missed the shambles of a performance against Everton, the brave win against the mighty Norwich and the destruction against Liverpool, eh? Who did you blame after those matches? Ya know, because it's always a singular and never about the whole.

I give you an 8/10 for condescension. You lose 2 points because of your shadow argument.

 

[arthurka]

I think he could become a CB under a new manager.

 

[rk4utd]

Oh. I had the pleasure.

I was around at the back-end on the Robson days and I fully loved and appreciated the Keane, Fletcher, Ince, Scholes and Carrick days. I'll add Park and Butt to the list.

Who said that McTominay is as good as any of the above? Creating your own narrative?

Must be gutted that McTominay missed the shambles of a performance against Everton, the brave win against the mighty Norwich and the destruction against Liverpool, eh? Who did you blame after those matches? Ya know, because it's always a singular and never about the whole.

I give you an 8/10 for condescension. You lose 2 points because of your shadow argument.

If you are going to quote examples of when we played badly and got beat without mctominay then I can no doubt trawl through the results when he has played and we got beat/played equally as badly from the sorry litany of results/performances representing our output this past number of months.

And when did I say he was solely to blame? He is one of many that are not good enough, that’s for sure. No doubt he will stay as many other rotten apples are more worthy of being got rid of before him.

I also never said he didn’t care….he is probably more upset than the likes of lingard having come through the ranks at the club.

However, I stick by the point I was trying to make by referencing players from our past that I have watched and admired. A few on that list didn’t win titles too. In my (and if I’m in the minority, then hey ho) opinion he was/is never good enough to get us competing again at the very top level. Name me a top team in Europe that he would get in to? I don’t follow Scotland too much so may be not quite up to date but is even regular first choice for them - in midfield?

I wish the boy well - playing for Villa or Wolves or Yes - Everton. In all sincerity I would doubt they’d want him. I don’t want him to be not good enough. I just don’t think he is. Nothing personal!

 

[Blood Mage]

As I said in the Wan Bissaka thread, technique cannot be taught. McTominay is never going to be a cultured passer.

 

[Roane]

Fletch was obviously a much better player than McTominay and he was reaching a very good level before his illness, but let's not go overboard. Keane is arguably the best, or at least the most influential, midfielder of the Premier League era. Fletch was never reaching that level or even particularly close. Even if he got to borderline world class level (which he might have if he'd kept improving as he was), that's still significantly behind Keano.

Thing with Fletch was that he was highlighted as being a good future player. If I recall correctly he had injuries which severely hampered his progress. He did well to come back from that then got ill.

I have a disabled kid who because he was in hospital didn't learn to chew until he was around 9. Apparently there is a 2 week window where babies learn this and if you miss it it takes ages.

I mention this because in football its the same for a players progress. Many a player has missed a phase through injury and it's held their progress back. Others may go through a growth spurt and all of a sudden start running funny and have to "start again" and it takes a while longer.

Similarly progress from youth/academy to first team can be delayed if a player doesn't get the right coaching. Which is what I think has happened to Rashford. I remember Glenn Hoddle speaking about it in detail. He said players coming into first teams often fail as they can't adjust from playing for themselves to playing in a team.

 

[simonhch]

I can only assume some of the people on here defending Mctominay’s attributes to play for United based on his career achievements thus far never had the pleasure of seeing Robson,Ince, Keane, Scholes,Carrick, Butt - Christ I’d even add Anderson before he got distracted - not to mention Wilkins, Muhren, Whiteside. If you think Mctominay is as good as them then you are genuinely deluded.

For me the above list represents the standard of a United central midfield player. Mctominay has shown little to suggest he will ever get to that standard I’m afraid. If that makes me a ‘complainer’ then I can live with that.

Personally I’d call it ‘expecting United standards’. Sorry for being unreasonable.

That’s an unfortunate post because I don’t think anyone is saying he’s anywhere near as good as those players. But football is a squad game and Scott is certainly good enough to be a member of our squad and play a part under quality coaching. He’ll never be a top draw midfielder, but he can be and often has been a good one. I am certainly see him doing well as part of a unit that is greater than the sum of its part, but again that comes down to coaching. With the current lack of physicality, and general apathy of our first team, he’d currently be the first name on the team sheet for me. But the bar is very low right now. Longer term his role is clearly as a system and/or rotational player and that itself has value.

 

[tjb]

I can only assume some of the people on here defending Mctominay’s attributes to play for United based on his career achievements thus far never had the pleasure of seeing Robson,Ince, Keane, Scholes,Carrick, Butt - Christ I’d even add Anderson before he got distracted - not to mention Wilkins, Muhren, Whiteside. If you think Mctominay is as good as them then you are genuinely deluded.

For me the above list represents the standard of a United central midfield player. Mctominay has shown little to suggest he will ever get to that standard I’m afraid. If that makes me a ‘complainer’ then I can live with that.

Personally I’d call it ‘expecting United standards’. Sorry for being unreasonable.

Not defending Mctominay at all. I feel he's a very average footballer who would most likely not start for a mid-table team in the Premier League. We are unfortunate that despite this, he happens to be better than anything else we have outside of a fit Pogba and Fred; both of whom should never play as a defensive midfielder. Fred himself would be a starter in a Europa league team, but not at any team with ambitions to do anything serious.

Our fans often get confused when it comes to the quality of some members of our squad compared to others. This is because some of these squad members did not have to perform their way into becoming United players. It's only when we decide to sell them that our fans are now able to see their true level. Arsenal's central midfielders are better than ours. Spurs' midfielders are better than ours. Leicester's midfielders are better than ours. West Ham's midfielders are more available and comparable to ours. Wolves' midfielders are better than ours. In saying this, Bruno is counted as an attacking midfielder. In addition, all these teams have more depth in midfield and have a better balance with their midfielders than we have.

 

[Rozay]

He's not shite as some say he is, but he is a weird player. My personal view of him is that he's good at:
- Tackling, getting up and down the pitch and making a nuisance of himself with his big frame. Noticeably showed how useful that can be in big games over the last 2 or 3 seasons.
- Striking the ball, finishing on the occasion he does get a chance in the box, probably due to being an attacker in the academy
- Occasional fast dribble, due to having a long stride rather than any technical skill

Those traits make him a useful player than on his day can be quite good. The problem is, the things he lacks are:
- A decent passing range
- Ability to technically dribble in tight spots

Which means he's not really that suited to being a midfielder. Scotland play him as a defender but then it negates most of his actual useful qualities. Weird one, is Scott. I wish someone would a spend a year with him just practising passing all day long, if he could increase his range and accuracy he'd actually be a very good midfielder.

He’s not good at tackling at all. He’s almost guaranteed to foul his opponent every time he goes to engage him.

 

[lex talionis]

It's really unfortunate that McTominay had the gift of deluding Jose and Ole. By the time Ralf took the reins he had no realistic option other than play McTominay, although he took it to the extreme of playing him every single match until it was no longer bearable to watch.

 

[Relevated]

He’s not good at tackling at all. He’s almost guaranteed to foul his opponent every time he goes to engage him.

Sometimes that's what's needed. A good few fouls.

 

[Stadjer]

Sometimes that's what's needed. A good few fouls.

I would prefer a midfielder who can get the ball without a foul and after getting the ball can also pass and launch a counterattack.

That midfielder isnt McT. He loves to foul, isnt he (one of) the most booked players in the league?

 

[Chripper]

If you are going to quote examples of when we played badly and got beat without mctominay then I can no doubt trawl through the results when he has played and we got beat/played equally as badly from the sorry litany of results/performances representing our output this past number of months.

And when did I say he was solely to blame? He is one of many that are not good enough, that’s for sure. No doubt he will stay as many other rotten apples are more worthy of being got rid of before him.

I also never said he didn’t care….he is probably more upset than the likes of lingard having come through the ranks at the club.

However, I stick by the point I was trying to make by referencing players from our past that I have watched and admired. A few on that list didn’t win titles too. In my (and if I’m in the minority, then hey ho) opinion he was/is never good enough to get us competing again at the very top level. Name me a top team in Europe that he would get in to? I don’t follow Scotland too much so may be not quite up to date but is even regular first choice for them - in midfield?

I wish the boy well - playing for Villa or Wolves or Yes - Everton. In all sincerity I would doubt they’d want him. I don’t want him to be not good enough. I just don’t think he is. Nothing personal!

Oh man. I thought you were "past man" and you were going to compare George Best, Bobby Charlton and Denis Law with today's equivalent. I mean, if you're going to bring up Keane, etc, when we're talking about McTominay, you could just as well do it with the entire first XI.

Can I start? Great!! Boy, we have Harry Maguire. In the bygone era we've had ginats such as McQueen, Stam, Buchan and Bruce.

Now you go!

If you think McTominay will end up at Everton or Villa then you're in for a shock. I think there's a reason you didn't include Butt, Park or Fletcher on your list. You only acknowledge the glamour midfielder.

Thanks for playing, though. It's been scada of fun.

 

[rk4utd]

Oh man. I thought you were "past man" and you were going to compare George Best, Bobby Charlton and Denis Law with today's equivalent. I mean, if you're going to bring up Keane, etc, when we're talking about McTominay, you could just as well do it with the entire first XI.

Can I start? Great!! Boy, we have Harry Maguire. In the bygone era we've had ginats such as McQueen, Stam, Buchan and Bruce.

Now you go!

If you think McTominay will end up at Everton or Villa then you're in for a shock. I think there's a reason you didn't include Butt, Park or Fletcher on your list. You only acknowledge the glamour midfielder.

Thanks for playing, though. It's been scada of fun.

Standards - as for the players I quoted those were the last United midfield players we had worthy of being mentioned in the same breathe.

Sad but true.- there are plenty of other midfielders playing for our rivals at present that could make that list, which for your information did include Butt. I wouldn’t put Fletcher on it though - he was mediocre for the majority of his United career too. I also wouldn’t put McQueen on any any centre back list. Great character but too error prone. Scored some great headers though from corners etc something our current centre backs could do with studying YouTube clips of if they have a moment between their ‘training’ sessions.

United should have ‘glamour’ midfield players too by the way. If that’s what your interpretation of top quality is then I’m happy to run with that title. Unfortunately - and I mean that - Mctominay still won’t be on the list whether it be now or in 10 years.

 

[In Rainbows]

Garner is what people think the good version of McTominay is.