Rioting Erupts in Europe

TheReligion

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…following Belgium defeat to Morocco at the World Cup.


Riots have broken out in several Belgian and Dutch cities after Morocco shocked Belgium by winning 2-0 during a World Cup clash in Qatar.

Police arrested about a dozen people after using water cannons and tear gas to disperse crowds in Brussels - and held eight more in the northern city of Antwerp.

Two police officials were injured in the Dutch port city of Rotterdam, where riot officers tackled a group of 500 football supporters who pelted police with fireworks and glass.

Disturbances were also reported in Amsterdam and The Hague.

In Brussels, police were forced to seal off parts of the city as they tried to disperse crowds.

Cars were pelted with bricks and steps were set on fire, while one person suffered facial injuries, according to Brussels police spokeswoman Ilse Van de Keere.

Philippe Close, the mayor of Brussels, urged football fans to stay away from the city centre and said authorities were doing their utmost to keep order in the streets.

Subway and tram traffic had to be interrupted on police orders.

"Those are not fans, they are rioters. Moroccan fans are there to celebrate," Mr Close said.

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/riot...-off-world-cup-upset-beating-belgium-12756774

Classic English drunken thugs I suspect.
 
Proper little englander thread this is.
 
Classic TheReligion thread.
 
For a moment I thought I was in the General forum and that the collapse has began upon reading the title...
 
Despite all the joke posts, it's actually an interesting subject. Similar things have happened in the Netherlands after noticeable Turkish victories (but not as much rioting).

I wonder why. I mean, obviously, there are large populations of Turkish and Moroccan descent in the Netherlands, but why the rioting? I wonder if they're using the occassion to give the finger to a society that's not been very welcoming to them - which then turns to violence.
 
Cheimoon said:
Despite all the joke posts, it's actually an interesting subject. Similar things have happened in the Netherlands after noticeable Turkish victories (but not as much rioting).

I wonder why. I mean, obviously, there are large populations of Turkish and Moroccan descent in the Netherlands, but why the rioting? I wonder if they're using the occassion to give the finger to a society that's not been very welcoming to them - which then turns to violence.
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In The Hague it's mostly no good youngsters looking for an excuse to light stuff on fire. They also did this during lockdowns in exactly the same place. Saying it's a result of a non welcome society is a bit too lenient if you ask me. These people have no interest in being welcomed.

It starts with shite parenting.

Geert Wilders will fecking love it, that's for sure.

Thread tirle is a bit alarmist by the way :lol:
 
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Cheimoon said:
Despite all the joke posts, it's actually an interesting subject. Similar things have happened in the Netherlands after noticeable Turkish victories (but not as much rioting).

I wonder why. I mean, obviously, there are large populations of Turkish and Moroccan descent in the Netherlands, but why the rioting? I wonder if they're using the occassion to give the finger to a society that's not been very welcoming to them - which then turns to violence.
Click to expand...

Yeah it definitely feels like there’s something been bubbling for some time and it’s not just the result even if that’s been the spark to ignite events today.
 
KirkDuyt said:
In The Hague it's mostly no good youngsters looking for an excuse to light stuff on fire. Saying it's a result of a non welcome society is a bit too lenient if you ask me. These people have no interest in being welcomed.

It starts with shite parenting.

Geert Wilders will fecking love it, that's for sure.

Thread tirle is a bit alarmist by the way :lol:
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I suppose you can point to Feyenoord fans rioting after any significant Feyenoord succes as evidence that it's not unique to Turkish and Moroccan communities. Still, I do think these communities have reasons to feel disenfranchised, and that that contributes to rioting being more likely to happen in this sort of situation. They have to be deeply politically motivated for that.
 
Cheimoon said:
Despite all the joke posts, it's actually an interesting subject. Similar things have happened in the Netherlands after noticeable Turkish victories (but not as much rioting).

I wonder why. I mean, obviously, there are large populations of Turkish and Moroccan descent in the Netherlands, but why the rioting? I wonder if they're using the occassion to give the finger to a society that's not been very welcoming to them - which then turns to violence.
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Whilst there's a discussion to be had about this, there is also an element that just get carried away and cause trouble.

Happens every euros/world cup and will continue to do so until humans take football less seriously.
 
TheReligion said:
Yeah it definitely feels like there’s something been bubbling for some time and it’s not just the result even if that’s been the spark to ignite events today.
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Yep.

I think that, more generally, there's also a sense of exclusion that leads to increased pride in Turkey's and Morocco's successes, and a need to be more ostentatious about it.
 
One of the reasons I don’t live there anymore. It’s always been at the tip
in most places where the North African mainly Moroccan and the Turkish minorities are and being from a mixed family myself I know that tension firsthand. Even amongst Feyenoord fans there’s some bad blood there. They feel inferior, even though many were born there and know only Rotterdam they still treated like immigrants that swam over. It then boils over sometimes.
 
TheReligion said:
Yeah it definitely feels like there’s something been bubbling for some time and it’s not just the result even if that’s been the spark to ignite events today.
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Over 20 years.
Anyway, what are you gonna do? I mean idiots will behave like idiots for many years to come.
 
TheReligion in heat at the thought of being able to use his baton against the chavs. Hang on....can I join you mate?
 
Cheimoon said:
I suppose you can point to Feyenoord fans rioting after any significant Feyenoord succes as evidence that it's not unique to Turkish and Moroccan communities. Still, I do think these communities have reasons to feel disenfranchised, and that that contributes to rioting being more likely to happen in this sort of situation. They have to be deeply politically motivated for that.
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They do to an extent and it doesnt have anything to do with them being Moroccan or Turkish, but these 2 communities do cause a relatively large amount of trouble over here. This is part disenfranchisment, but also part cultural friction I think. The kids doing this rioting arent politically motivated though, they're just mad at the world.

It's also a devolving vicious cycle (is that a Van Gaalism or a real saying in English) since we have that cnut Geert Wilders screaming we want less Moroccans, which makes Moroccans mad (rightly so) which in turn makes them feel disenfranchised and more prone to acting out which in turn leads to Wilders saying ha, I told you they were bad.

It's shit, we should all just get along and most of us do, but these rioters on one side and Geert Wilders on the other side get most of the attention which just makes it worse.
 
KirkDuyt said:
They do to an extent and it doesnt have anything to do with them being Moroccan or Turkish, but these 2 communities do cause a relatively large amount of trouble over here. This is part disenfranchisment, but also part cultural friction I think. The kids doing this rioting arent politically motivated though, they're just mad at the world.

It's also a devolving vicious cycle (is that a Van Gaalism or a real saying in English) since we have that cnut Geert Wilders screaming we want less Moroccans, which makes Moroccans mad (rightly so) which in turn makes them feel disenfranchised and more prone to acting out which in turn leads to Wilders saying ha, I told you they were bad.

It's shit, we should all just get along and most of us do, but these rioters on one side and Geert Wilders on the other side get most of the attention which just makes it worse.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're right, it's a mess. A pretty toxic dynamic all around and I'm not sure how you'd get out of it now it's there. I think there's a lot more the Dutch government (at all levels) could do though, in terms of social interventions and urban planning, as a first step towards improvement.
 
KirkDuyt said:
They do to an extent and it doesnt have anything to do with them being Moroccan or Turkish, but these 2 communities do cause a relatively large amount of trouble over here. This is part disenfranchisment, but also part cultural friction I think. The kids doing this rioting arent politically motivated though, they're just mad at the world.

It's also a devolving vicious cycle (is that a Van Gaalism or a real saying in English) since we have that cnut Geert Wilders screaming we want less Moroccans, which makes Moroccans mad (rightly so) which in turn makes them feel disenfranchised and more prone to acting out which in turn leads to Wilders saying ha, I told you they were bad.

It's shit, we should all just get along and most of us do, but these rioters on one side and Geert Wilders on the other side get most of the attention which just makes it worse.
Click to expand...

Sad to hear that. Those kinds of statements work in American politics (allows people to blame others for their problems) and then it creates a vicious cycle of the locals hating the immigrants even more.
 
Cheimoon said:
Yeah, you're right, it's a mess. A pretty toxic dynamic all around and I'm not sure how you'd get out of it now it's there. I think there's a lot more the Dutch government (at all levels) could do though, in terms of social interventions and urban planning, as a first step towards improvement.
Click to expand...

I doubt urban planning will solve the issue, there is more behind cultural clashes than just lack of opportunities.

Cultural differences will always be thing, no matter the urban planning or govt efforts.

America is the biggest example of it.
 
I don't blame those people. We're all victims of nature. This all a result of the specific conditions in the region where we first evolved, with so many scary predators and lack of food. If we had evolved on a more benign environment, we would be all free lover hippies like the bonobos at this point.
 
I’m not sure why, Belgium have been one of the most underwhelming “golden generations” ever.

Despite all their top names they have never looked like they were contenders for any major trophy. Even KDB saying “we’re too old to win the WC”

As the best player in Your team how could you say that ?
 
KirkDuyt said:
They do to an extent and it doesnt have anything to do with them being Moroccan or Turkish, but these 2 communities do cause a relatively large amount of trouble over here. This is part disenfranchisment, but also part cultural friction I think. The kids doing this rioting arent politically motivated though, they're just mad at the world.

It's also a devolving vicious cycle (is that a Van Gaalism or a real saying in English) since we have that cnut Geert Wilders screaming we want less Moroccans, which makes Moroccans mad (rightly so) which in turn makes them feel disenfranchised and more prone to acting out which in turn leads to Wilders saying ha, I told you they were bad.

It's shit, we should all just get along and most of us do, but these rioters on one side and Geert Wilders on the other side get most of the attention which just makes it worse.
Click to expand...

Hopefully most people in the Netherlands understand this mindset. It's these outliers on both sides that keep the negative movement going. Similar things happen here in the states but folks don't bother to zoom out and think of it in that sense. It's more "feck you. I don't care. Trump is right."
 
SportingCP96 said:
I’m not sure why, Belgium have been one of the most underwhelming “golden generations” ever.

Despite all their top names they have never looked like they were contenders for any major trophy. Even KDB saying “we’re too old to win the WC”

As the best player in Your team how could you say that ?
Click to expand...

Martinez is crap
 
FrankFoot said:
I doubt urban planning will solve the issue, there is more behind cultural clashes than just lack of opportunities.

Cultural differences will always be thing, no matter the urban planning or govt efforts.

America is the biggest example of it.
Click to expand...

Actually, America has its problems (and tbh a lot of it has to do with education and the history of slavery) but urban planning here has helped a lot in bridging the gap.

One thing I've noticed is Moroccans, Turks, Mexicans or immigrants in America truly consider themselves American and mingle with local populations. In Europe you find way too many "moroccan", "Pakistani" or "turkish" neighborhoods.
 
FrankFoot said:
I doubt urban planning will solve the issue, there is more behind cultural clashes than just lack of opportunities.

Cultural differences will always be thing, no matter the urban planning or govt efforts.

America is the biggest example of it.
Click to expand...
What I'm talking about isn't about cultural differences. It's about feeling excluded socioeconomically from a society that seems not to care much about you. I mean, why would cultural differences lead to rioting? Surely you don't think this happens because young people feel they can't live their culture?

Also, as was said above, urban infrastructure plays a huge role - and the US is actually an excellent example of its negative influences. Look up redlining (link: Wikipedia), or how the development of suburbs and their malls in the 50s and 60 increased segregation (link: CBC.ca). @entropy and @oneniltothearsenal would probably have a whole bunch of further examples. (And in general, I would take US policies around multicultural integration as a warning rather than an example.)
 
SportingCP96 said:
I’m not sure why, Belgium have been one of the most underwhelming “golden generations” ever.

Despite all their top names they have never looked like they were contenders for any major trophy. Even KDB saying “we’re too old to win the WC”

As the best player in Your team how could you say that ?
Click to expand...

I know it sounds like a simplification, but their manager just isn’t at the level needed to win big.

They really should’ve replaced him before this WC, very similar to England in that aspect.

Both countries are now at risk of wasting a generation of talent on bang average (at best) managers.

Based on their club performances, you could argue that Martinez is a better coach than Southgate, but neither are good enough for the levels their players are capable of.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I know it sounds like a simplification, but their manager just isn’t at the level needed to win big.

They really should’ve replaced him before this WC, very similar to England in that aspect.

Both countries are now at risk of wasting a generation of talent on bang average (at best) managers.

Based on their club performances, you could argue that Martinez is a better coach than Southgate, but neither are good enough for the levels their players are capable of.
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I could understand that but KDB saying what he said rubbed me the wrong way. What kind of loser mentality is that? If you feel that way then what’s the point of even showing up to the tournament? They should have just forfeited their entry if that’s how they feel.

It’s not like he’s playing with Costa Rica ffs, look at the dam players around you. Absolute beta mentality from him.
 
SportingCP96 said:
I’m not sure why, Belgium have been one of the most underwhelming “golden generations” ever.

Despite all their top names they have never looked like they were contenders for any major trophy. Even KDB saying “we’re too old to win the WC”

As the best player in Your team how could you say that ?
Click to expand...

Likewise for England "golden generation" ??
 
Cheimoon said:
Despite all the joke posts, it's actually an interesting subject. Similar things have happened in the Netherlands after noticeable Turkish victories (but not as much rioting).

I wonder why. I mean, obviously, there are large populations of Turkish and Moroccan descent in the Netherlands, but why the rioting? I wonder if they're using the occassion to give the finger to a society that's not been very welcoming to them - which then turns to violence.
Click to expand...

There's some very clear and obvious answers to these questions which are something most people do not want to hear, let alone accept. It's the same in whole Europe when it comes to this subject, honestly.
 
Cheimoon said:
Despite all the joke posts, it's actually an interesting subject. Similar things have happened in the Netherlands after noticeable Turkish victories (but not as much rioting).

I wonder why. I mean, obviously, there are large populations of Turkish and Moroccan descent in the Netherlands, but why the rioting? I wonder if they're using the occassion to give the finger to a society that's not been very welcoming to them - which then turns to violence.
Click to expand...
Maybe, just maybe, some of these rioting youngsters don't respect society?
 
VorZakone said:
Maybe, just maybe, some of these rioting youngsters don't respect society?
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They obviously don't respect society, but the key to solving the issue is finding out why they don't, I doubt they were born this way. You can't put all the blame on Geert Wilders, there's also problematic cultural differences (mostly the conservative vs progressive mindset) and the lack of integration on their parents side, but the louder we scream it's always the same groups, the more likely it becomes other moroccan kids grow up the way they did.

I do respect the fact it's hard to see these things nuancedly while these kids are lighting your car on fire obviously.
 
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