Kinsella
Copy & Paste Merchant
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- Jan 20, 2012
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Contending for 4th in the all-time list is still incredible. It's not like Ronaldo has fallen off a cliff because of one match.Agree to disagree.
Contending for 4th in the all-time list is still incredible. It's not like Ronaldo has fallen off a cliff because of one match.Agree to disagree.
He’s already top 4 all time and has been for years. That part isn’t in question.Contending for 4th in the all-time list is still incredible. It's not like Ronaldo has fallen off a cliff because of one match.
You can make an argument for that both in 2006 (Argentina was a very strong side, Ronaldo could have helped them... But Portugal also was very good back then) and specially in 2014. There is an argument of Messi being somewhat carried by Di Maria throughout the KO stages. Ronaldo was such a clutch player back then for Madrid that you'd think he'd have scored the chance missed by Messi against Germany.The bit about how Argentina would have won more and earlier with Ronaldo was the funniest bit of the lot. I won’t say too much more because I can only imagine how much this is eating you up inside and how long it will take for your pain to dissipate. What a damn shame, even cal had the humility and good sense to be honest with himself and concede defeat.
If there's a consensus that he is indeed in the top 4, I think we can now safely say that there's also pretty much a consensus that he's not rising above 4th.He’s already top 4 all time and has been for years. That part isn’t in question.
MessiHe’s already top 4 all time and has been for years. That part isn’t in question.
Luis Figo and others would be upset with the idea of Portugal being crap before Ronaldo came along, if that’s what I think he’s saying.Deary me this is tragic. The weirdest part is you’re Portuguese but are willing to make stuff up and shit on the rest of your countries footballers past and present to present your country as some sort of shitty minnow in an attempt to elevate a player you’re obviously deeply in love with look at Portugal at Euro 2000 for fecks sakes.
The bit about how Argentina would have won more and earlier with Ronaldo was the funniest bit of the lot. I won’t say too much more because I can only imagine how much this is eating you up inside and how long it will take for your pain to dissipate. What a damn shame, even cal had the humility and good sense to be honest with himself and concede defeat.
Not true. Even in cricket they had these debates particularly in the 80s with greatest all rounder of all time.This GOAT stuff is just another example of the **** of the individual that we see pervading all areas of society. In the 90s and 00s I truly don’t recall this constant back and forth debate about GOATs, not just in football but in basketball too.
Personally I'd have Ronaldo ahead of players like Cruyff and Beckenbauer for that 4th spot. The other strongest contender for it imo is Di Stefano, and I don't think you can definitively state that Ronaldo is greater than him. It's a hard one to call.Messi
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff/Ronaldo/Beckenbauer(?)
He’s an arguable top 4
I think Ronaldo is either 3rd or 4th. Considering their peak or talent he isn’t really quite up there at Maradona’s level, but then Maradona overall career doesn’t really match half of Ronaldo’s one, which makes the debate even closer.If there's a consensus that he is indeed in the top 4, I think we can now safely say that there's also pretty much a consensus that he's not rising above 4th.
Ronaldo has to receive massive credit for the longevity he's had in this career. It's remarkable, and there's no doubt about that. That said there's a limit to how much 'longevity/career' factors into the debate...at least for me. The main issue I have is that he's just too talent-deficient to be in the top 3.I think Ronaldo is either 3rd or 4th. Considering their peak or talent he isn’t really quite up there at Maradona’s level, but then Maradona overall career doesn’t really match half of Ronaldo’s one, which makes the debate even closer.
Maradona team is not shit until he literally 1 v 11.Still Maradona for me. This Argentina team is actually really good.
Not the oranje army ?Mbappe is the greatest losing finalist of all time.
I am a big big fan of Cruyff and Beckenbauer, but objectively speaking, there is no way they are at same ranking as Ronaldo in GOAT. It’s just impossible.Messi
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff/Ronaldo/Beckenbauer(?)
He’s an arguable top 4
Maradona's team had Copa Libertadores winners, in times where Copa Libertadores winner could beat European Cup winners.Maradona team is not shit until he literally 1 v 11.
People speak as though Maradona team mates are sunday league players.
YupIn my honest opinion, Ronaldo is simply the greatest European footballer of all time, no even a question on that. (Let’s also see how Mbappe do in his career)
It’s a pretty simplistic way of breaking it down but you also have Puskas and Di Stefano, don’t think the top 4-7 is straight forward after those 3 you can make arguments for any one of those players.I am a big big fan of Cruyff and Beckenbauer, but objectively speaking, there is no way they are at same ranking as Ronaldo in GOAT. It’s just impossible.
Ballon D’or:
Ronaldo - 5 wins 7 runners up
Beckenbauer - 3 wins 2 runners up
Cruyff - 3 wins 1 runners up
CL:
Ronaldo - 5 wins
Cruyff - 3 wins
Beckenbauer - 3 wins
WC/Euro:
Beckenbauer - 2 wins
Ronaldo - 1 win
Cruyff - 0
Trophies:
Ronaldo - 33
Cruyff - 22
Beckenbauer - 20
Legacy:
Cruyff - key part of total football revolution
Beckenbauer - revolutionized football in creating new “Kaiser (sweeper)” position of his own
Ronaldo - revolutionized football in starting a new trend in goalscoring wing forward play
Yes forgot about him.Personally I'd have Ronaldo ahead of players like Cruyff and Beckenbauer for that 4th spot. The other strongest contender for it imo is Di Stefano, and I don't think you can definitively state that Ronaldo is greater than him. It's a hard one to call.
Brilliant .Contrasting months. Messi lifted Rimet in tears and was feted, Cristiano got rimmed by Piers and was fired.
People go on about stats a lot these days. Well Di Stefano's stats are incredible, and he's the player most responsible for helping to create Real Madrid's legend.Yes forgot about him.
well yeah I’m sure someone somewhere in a pub or summink had some casual chats about who’s the best but it’s on the ride and pervasive and toxic in discussions like never before thanks to soshulmeejaNot true. Even in cricket they had these debates particularly in the 80s with greatest all rounder of all time.
I understand where you are coming from, but if we are talking about “greatest”, achievements/career also does play a huge part.Ronaldo has to receive massive credit for the longevity he's had in this career. It's remarkable, and there's no doubt about that. That said there's a limit to how much 'longevity/career' factors into the debate...at least for me. The main issue I have is that he's just too talent-deficient to be in the top 3.
The top 3 are seen, more or less, as interchangeable contenders for the greatest/best player to ever do it, and I know in my gut that Ronaldo just isn't that player. And I dare say most others feel the same. It's the eye test, the magic, the 'how did he do that!?' aspect to being the greatest at something...where he falls significantly short.
Di Stefano has been regarded as greatest player in club football for many years, until Messi/Ronaldo came. Even so, they’re not much difference in terms of their respective club career in their respective era. In my opinion the edge Ronaldo has over Di Stefano, is when we compared their international career. Di Stefano has almost nothing for his country/countries, while Ronaldo has 2 trophies (1 Euro), Euro top scorer/golden boot, and being all time international top scorer as well.People go on about stats a lot these days. Well Di Stefano's stats are incredible, and he's the player most responsible for helping to create Real Madrid's legend.
I agree with that completely. It's just that it's not be all and end all for me.I understand where you are coming from, but if we are talking about “greatest”, achievements/career also does play a huge part.
It's what probably places him 4th in my view, and 4th is an incredible achievement. But can you really say that Ronaldo is the best/greatest player who ever lived?...because that's what being interchangeable with the other 3 actually means.It’s not just simply longevity in their career, or career in terms of team achievements. Individually/objectively speaking, the fact that Ronaldo has won 5 Ballon D’or (and 7 times runners up), plus being only player in this planet who has scored 800+ goals and break all the biggest records, makes him right up there in contention.
I get what you're saying, but I think in football terms the notion that talent can simply be equated to a fan's favoured style is wrong. Maradona and Messi are compared not just because they're from the same country but because the way they play the game is similar. And it's that 'style' that is/has been the highest expression of talent in the game - i.e. the dribbling, passing, vision, speed, creativity etc.It’s just like big 3 in tennis, even if one of them isn’t considered as “talented” as in your favoured style, you still have to put all 3 of them in contention, as you can’t really ignored their vast superior achievements in their sports.
B’allon dor was only an European award for a large part of its history it shouldn’t be the be all and end all when looking at these players careers, even then there are players who haven’t even won any who many would have above players who have. Neither should scoring 800+ goals be the litmus test when you have a player like Eusebio who has a better goal to game ratio than even Ronaldo does.I understand where you are coming from, but if we are talking about “greatest”, achievements/career also does play a huge part.
It’s not just simply longevity in their career, or career in terms of team achievements. Individually/objectively speaking, the fact that Ronaldo has won 5 Ballon D’or (and 7 times runners up), plus being only player in this planet who has scored 800+ goals and break all the biggest records, makes him right up there in contention.
It’s just like big 3 in tennis, even if one of them isn’t considered as “talented” as in your favoured style, you still have to put all 3 of them in contention, as you can’t really ignored their vast superior achievements in their sports.
That's fair enough, although as I understand it Di Stefano didn't play international football for around 10 years...from sometime in his early 20s to early 30s. He was also, as I understand it, a much more complete player than Ronaldo.Di Stefano has been regarded as greatest player in club football for many years, until Messi/Ronaldo came. Even so, they’re not much difference in terms of their respective club career in their respective era. In my opinion the edge Ronaldo has over Di Stefano, is when we compared their international career. Di Stefano has almost nothing for his country/countries, while Ronaldo has 2 trophies (1 Euro), Euro top scorer/golden boot, and being all time international top scorer as well.
You are just arguing in terms of “best player” perspective where “talent/ability” is your key consideration. While I am talking about “greatest”.B’allon dor was only an European award for a large part of its history it shouldn’t be the be all and end all when looking at these players careers, even then there are players who haven’t even won any who many would have above players who have. Neither should scoring 800+ goals be the litmus test when you have a player like Eusebio who has a better goal to game ratio than even Ronaldo does.
He is right up there in contention but he lacks what others have in ability and affecting all facets of the game, Pele and Messi especially and even Cruyff and Di Stefano when talking about all roundness.
Let alone talking about someone like Puskas who matches Ronaldo scoring wise. There have been a few truly great goal scorers in the game, it takes more than that to be top 2-3 players of all time.
Its not really a debate, mainly for those who are so stubborn to move their original view from 14 years ago.Pele, Maradona, Messi are the goats of their respective eras - the rest are miles behind
Sorry Cristiano / Piers fans
yeah but blame internet for that where disingenuous pricks engage with you and then drag you through the gutter!well yeah I’m sure someone somewhere in a pub or summink had some casual chats about who’s the best but it’s on the ride and pervasive and toxic in discussions like never before thanks to soshulmeeja
Sure he did miss 10 years of international football due to ban. But he was also part of Spain team which failed to qualify for 1958 WC too. While he was sidelined in 1962 WC and his team failed to get out of group stage. All things considered, he did have an underwhelming international career with 2 failed campaign.That's fair enough, although as I understand it Di Stefano didn't play international football for around 10 years...from sometime in his early 20s to early 30s. He was also, as I understand it, a much more complete player than Ronaldo.
It's been a good discussion but I think mentioning the Nations League there is silly.
You guys just can’t help yourself he’s so beyond those guys its not even closeMessi
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff/Ronaldo/Beckenbauer(?)
He’s an arguable top 4
You guys just can’t help yourself he’s so beyond those guys its not even close
Every single all time ranking you can find will have him in the Mount Rushmore.
only you sad lot will say other wise.
Are you seriously arguing that Cristiano should be ranked higher than Pele and Maradona?You are just arguing in terms of “best player” perspective where “talent/ability” is your key consideration. While I am talking about “greatest”.
In terms of being “greatest” in any sports, achievements always plays the biggest part.
As for all of the players you’ve mentioned:
individual honours
Ronaldo - 5 Ballon D’ors 7 runners up
Cruyff - 3 Ballon D’ors 1 runners up
Di Stefano - 2 Ballon D’ors 1 runners up
Eusebio - 1 Ballon D’ors 2 runners up
Puskas - 1 runners up
Least to say Ronaldo is clearly far better than those listed above, in terms of how highly regarded each of them were during their respective era,
It’s true Maradona isn’t elligble at that time, but Ballon D’or has since published a reevaluation of the awards presented before 1995, Maradona would have only won 2 based on their evaluation (Pele would have won 7). But I will leave that one open for debate.
And in terms of all roundness, I disagree he lacks it when compared to Cruyff or Di Stefano. People commonly only remember Ronaldo in his 30s when his overall game had been regressed (while also during his most successful period), but forgot how good he actually was during large part of his 20s when he was at his performance peak.
He was considered as top scorer of the game, top athletics in the game (speed/stamina/athleticism), and also one of top dribbler, one of most trickiest, one of top freekick takers and long range shooter, and probably one of most 2 footed players out there.
in terms of what ? talent ? skills ? goals ? personal honours, team honoursAre you seriously arguing that Cristiano should be ranked higher than Pele and Maradona?