He’s already top 4 all time and has been for years. That part isn’t in question.
Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)
- Thread starter Pexbo
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You can make an argument for that both in 2006 (Argentina was a very strong side, Ronaldo could have helped them... But Portugal also was very good back then) and specially in 2014. There is an argument of Messi being somewhat carried by Di Maria throughout the KO stages. Ronaldo was such a clutch player back then for Madrid that you'd think he'd have scored the chance missed by Messi against Germany.
This being said, I consider Messi to be the bigger player and the GOAT. I mean the one who's international career will end up being comparable to Pélé and Maradona. (Maybe Ronaldo Nazario is worthy of that conversation as well)
If there's a consensus that he is indeed in the top 4, I think we can now safely say that there's also pretty much a consensus that he's not rising above 4th.
Yes I think he is officially above Maradona and Ronaldo now. Whether he is better than Pele, I really have no idea, as I wasn’t born through the era. But I am leaning towards Messi.
Massive Ronaldo fan. Always said he is my GOAT and I always used internationals as a criteria as well.
Messi won the debate and war. He’s the GOAT it’s as simple as that.
Messi won the debate and war. He’s the GOAT it’s as simple as that.
Some absolute cringe worthy sad bastards around.
Congrats Lionel you've eliminated the biggest question mark against you at 35 years old.
GOAT.
Congrats Lionel you've eliminated the biggest question mark against you at 35 years old.
GOAT.
Luis Figo and others would be upset with the idea of Portugal being crap before Ronaldo came along, if that’s what I think he’s saying.Deary me this is tragic. The weirdest part is you’re Portuguese but are willing to make stuff up and shit on the rest of your countries footballers past and present to present your country as some sort of shitty minnow in an attempt to elevate a player you’re obviously deeply in love withlook at Portugal at Euro 2000 for fecks sakes.
The bit about how Argentina would have won more and earlier with Ronaldo was the funniest bit of the lot. I won’t say too much more because I can only imagine how much this is eating you up inside and how long it will take for your pain to dissipate. What a damn shame, even cal had the humility and good sense to be honest with himself and concede defeat.
Not true. Even in cricket they had these debates particularly in the 80s with greatest all rounder of all time.
Personally I'd have Ronaldo ahead of players like Cruyff and Beckenbauer for that 4th spot. The other strongest contender for it imo is Di Stefano, and I don't think you can definitively state that Ronaldo is greater than him. It's a hard one to call.
I think Ronaldo is either 3rd or 4th. Considering their peak or talent he isn’t really quite up there at Maradona’s level, but then Maradona overall career doesn’t really match half of Ronaldo’s one, which makes the debate even closer.
Ronaldo has to receive massive credit for the longevity he's had in this career. It's remarkable, and there's no doubt about that. That said there's a limit to how much 'longevity/career' factors into the debate...at least for me. The main issue I have is that he's just too talent-deficient to be in the top 3.
The top 3 are seen, more or less, as interchangeable contenders for the greatest/best player to ever do it, and I know in my gut that Ronaldo just isn't that player. And I dare say most others feel the same. It's the eye test, the magic, the 'how did he do that!?' aspect to being the greatest at something...where he falls significantly short.
Maradona team is not shit until he literally 1 v 11.
People speak as though Maradona team mates are sunday league players.
——————— Ronaldo———————
pele ———— Maradona—————Messi
I think the player that dispossesses one of those in an all time XI will be the next GOAT.
pele ———— Maradona—————Messi
I think the player that dispossesses one of those in an all time XI will be the next GOAT.
Not the oranje army ?
I am a big big fan of Cruyff and Beckenbauer, but objectively speaking, there is no way they are at same ranking as Ronaldo in GOAT. It’s just impossible.
Ballon D’or:
Ronaldo - 5 wins 7 runners up
Beckenbauer - 3 wins 2 runners up
Cruyff - 3 wins 1 runners up
CL:
Ronaldo - 5 wins
Cruyff - 3 wins
Beckenbauer - 3 wins
WC/Euro:
Beckenbauer - 2 wins
Ronaldo - 1 win
Cruyff - 0
Trophies:
Ronaldo - 33
Cruyff - 22
Beckenbauer - 20
Legacy:
Cruyff - key part of total football revolution
Beckenbauer - revolutionized football in creating new “Kaiser (sweeper)” position of his own
Ronaldo - revolutionized football in starting a new trend in goalscoring wing forward
Stats/Records
not even close but let’s just skip this one, as Beckenbauer wasn’t eligible for comparison. On the other hand, Cruyff is totally no match.
In my honest opinion, Ronaldo is simply the greatest European footballer of all time, not even a question on that. (Let’s also see how Mbappe do in his career)
And let’s just think about this,
Without Messi, Ronaldo could have won 9 Ballon D’ors.
Without Cruyff , Beckenbauer could have won 4. Without Beckenbauer, Cruyff would still win 3.
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Maradona's team had Copa Libertadores winners, in times where Copa Libertadores winner could beat European Cup winners.
Valdano, Pumpido, Ruggeri, Burruchaga and Enrique were highly rated.
Yup
It’s a pretty simplistic way of breaking it down but you also have Puskas and Di Stefano, don’t think the top 4-7 is straight forward after those 3 you can make arguments for any one of those players.
Di Stefano has more European cups than Cruyff but who would say he’s far better than Cruyff with no arguments?
Also its to simplistic an argument to just name trophies because Cruyffs performances in 74 is probably better than anything Ronaldo done on international stage despite Ronaldo actually winning the Euros.
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Yes forgot about him.
Brilliant
.People go on about stats a lot these days. Well Di Stefano's stats are incredible, and he's the player most responsible for helping to create Real Madrid's legend.
He’s the best player I’ve seen in my lifetime, alongside Maradona. I’m 51 years old, for perspective.
Where he stands alongside the greats that I never had the chance to see at the time… I’m honestly not sure if I’m entitled to judge. I don’t doubt he’d be up there though.
Where he stands alongside the greats that I never had the chance to see at the time… I’m honestly not sure if I’m entitled to judge. I don’t doubt he’d be up there though.
well yeah I’m sure someone somewhere in a pub or summink had some casual chats about who’s the best but it’s on the ride and pervasive and toxic in discussions like never before thanks to soshulmeeja
I understand where you are coming from, but if we are talking about “greatest”, achievements/career also does play a huge part.
It’s not just simply longevity in their career, or career in terms of team achievements. Individually/objectively speaking, the fact that Ronaldo has won 5 Ballon D’or (and 7 times runners up), plus being only player in this planet who has scored 800+ goals and break all the biggest records, makes him right up there in contention.
It’s just like big 3 in tennis, even if one of them isn’t considered as “talented” as in your favoured style, you still have to put all 3 of them in contention, as you can’t really ignored their vast superior achievements in their sports.
Pele > Messi > Ronaldo > Maradona
The real takeaway is that the Argies have produced two of the top four footballers of all time. Incredible, especially for a country which has as many challenges as Argentina does.
The real takeaway is that the Argies have produced two of the top four footballers of all time. Incredible, especially for a country which has as many challenges as Argentina does.
Di Stefano has been regarded as greatest player in club football for many years, until Messi/Ronaldo came. Even so, they’re not much difference in terms of their respective club career in their respective era. In my opinion the edge Ronaldo has over Di Stefano, is when we compared their international career. Di Stefano has almost nothing for his country/countries, while Ronaldo has 2 trophies (1 Euro), Euro top scorer/golden boot, and being all time international top scorer as well.
I agree with that completely. It's just that it's not be all and end all for me.
It's what probably places him 4th in my view, and 4th is an incredible achievement. But can you really say that Ronaldo is the best/greatest player who ever lived?...because that's what being interchangeable with the other 3 actually means.
Leaving aside the talent factor, can people even definitively state (using stats and legacy) that's he's a greater player than Di Stefano for example?
I get what you're saying, but I think in football terms the notion that talent can simply be equated to a fan's favoured style is wrong. Maradona and Messi are compared not just because they're from the same country but because the way they play the game is similar. And it's that 'style' that is/has been the highest expression of talent in the game - i.e. the dribbling, passing, vision, speed, creativity etc.
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B’allon dor was only an European award for a large part of its history it shouldn’t be the be all and end all when looking at these players careers, even then there are players who haven’t even won any who many would have above players who have. Neither should scoring 800+ goals be the litmus test when you have a player like Eusebio who has a better goal to game ratio than even Ronaldo does.
He is right up there in contention but he lacks what others have in ability and affecting all facets of the game, Pele and Messi especially and even Cruyff and Di Stefano when talking about all roundness.
Let alone talking about someone like Puskas who matches Ronaldo scoring wise. There have been a few truly great goal scorers in the game, it takes more than that to be top 2-3 players of all time.
That's fair enough, although as I understand it Di Stefano didn't play international football for around 10 years...from sometime in his early 20s to early 30s. He was also, as I understand it, a much more complete player than Ronaldo.
It's been a good discussion but I think mentioning the Nations League there is silly.
Pele, Maradona, Messi are the goats of their respective eras - the rest are miles behind
Sorry Cristiano / Piers fans
Sorry Cristiano / Piers fans
So many great pictures with the trophy
You are just arguing in terms of “best player” perspective where “talent/ability” is your key consideration. While I am talking about “greatest”.
In terms of being “greatest” in any sports, achievements always plays the biggest part.
As for all of the players you’ve mentioned:
individual honours
Ronaldo - 5 Ballon D’ors 7 runners up
Cruyff - 3 Ballon D’ors 1 runners up
Di Stefano - 2 Ballon D’ors 1 runners up
Eusebio - 1 Ballon D’ors 2 runners up
Puskas - 1 runners up
Least to say Ronaldo is clearly far better than those listed above, in terms of how highly regarded each of them were during their respective era,
It’s true Maradona isn’t elligble at that time, but Ballon D’or has since published a reevaluation of the awards presented before 1995, Maradona would have only won 2 based on their evaluation (Pele would have won 7). But I will leave that one open for debate.
And in terms of all roundness, I disagree he lacks it when compared to Cruyff or Di Stefano. People commonly only remember Ronaldo in his 30s when his overall game had been regressed (while also during his most successful period), but forgot how good he actually was during large part of his 20s when he was at his performance peak.
He was considered as top scorer of the game, top athletics in the game (speed/stamina/athleticism), and also one of top dribbler, one of most trickiest, one of top freekick takers and long range shooter, and probably one of most 2 footed players out there.
Its not really a debate, mainly for those who are so stubborn to move their original view from 14 years ago.
Going to miss him when he retires.
Hoping PSG get a CL this year then maybe he can go back to Barca for a year then the MLS.
yeah but blame internet for that where disingenuous pricks engage with you and then drag you through the gutter!
Sure he did miss 10 years of international football due to ban. But he was also part of Spain team which failed to qualify for 1958 WC too. While he was sidelined in 1962 WC and his team failed to get out of group stage. All things considered, he did have an underwhelming international career with 2 failed campaign.
You guys just can’t help yourself he’s so beyond those guys its not even close
Every single all time ranking you can find will have him in the Mount Rushmore.
only you sad lot will say other wise.
Are you seriously arguing that Cristiano should be ranked higher than Pele and Maradona?
in terms of what ? talent ? skills ? goals ? personal honours, team honours
These Messi and Ronaldo Fan boys are are proper proper weird bunch.
No no no my guys the GOAT……Erm noooo my guys the GOAT
your the saddest bunch of football fans ever created imo, very bizarre bunch.
For me though Messi is the most talented player I’ve ever seen, he was before the WC Win. This World Cup win does nothing for me with regards to “cementing” it, I believed my eyes way before all this “He needs a World Cup” crap, my eyes do not deceive me in that no player I’ve seen past and present has ever been on this guys Level, Maradona is the closest but not nearly as gifted as Messi imo.
No no no my guys the GOAT……Erm noooo my guys the GOAT
your the saddest bunch of football fans ever created imo, very bizarre bunch.
For me though Messi is the most talented player I’ve ever seen, he was before the WC Win. This World Cup win does nothing for me with regards to “cementing” it, I believed my eyes way before all this “He needs a World Cup” crap, my eyes do not deceive me in that no player I’ve seen past and present has ever been on this guys Level, Maradona is the closest but not nearly as gifted as Messi imo.