Lionel Messi is OFFICIALLY the Greatest Player of all Time (CONFIRMED OFFICIAL)

[TheLiverBird]

These Messi and Ronaldo Fan boys are are proper proper weird bunch.

No no no my guys the GOAT……Erm noooo my guys the GOAT

your the saddest bunch of football fans ever created imo, very bizarre bunch.

For me though Messi is the most talented player I’ve ever seen, he was before the WC Win. This World Cup win does nothing for me with regards to “cementing” it, I believed my eyes way before all this “He needs a World Cup” crap, my eyes do not deceive me in that no player I’ve seen past and present has ever been on this guys Level, Maradona is the closest but not nearly as gifted as Messi imo.

 

[Skills]

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[tenpoless]

Think we will sign him at some point when his legs are gone.

 

[SportingCP96]

Are you seriously arguing that Cristiano should be ranked higher than Pele and Maradona?

That’s very subjective. That he is too 4 is not even in question.

Pele I have ranked #4 he simply isn’t better then the other 3 and his stats and accolades beg many questions.

Peak Maradona has a huge case for #1 but his reign at the top was not long enough.Which is why I have h 3.

I don’t think any players in history have achieved the peak level and form for as long a period as Ronaldo and Messi hence they own every record in the game.

Ronaldo rivaled Messi for 15+ years and he won 5 Balon D Or in “Messi’s era” who you say is the greatest ever. So that must mean was pretty god dam close to Mr.Messi.

But instead on this forum you see bird brain comments like “cruyff or ronaldinho” can be argued 4th. No they can’t .

Ronaldo Messi Maradona and Pele are so far ahead of anyone the game has seen it’s not close imo. That is the Mount Rushmore of the sport.

 

[YzWayne]

“Still behind Phil Jones” - SAF

 

[kthanksbye]

These Messi and Ronaldo Fan boys are are proper proper weird bunch.

No no no my guys the GOAT……Erm noooo my guys the GOAT

your the saddest bunch of football fans ever created imo, very bizarre bunch.

For me though Messi is the most talented player I’ve ever seen, he was before the WC Win. This World Cup win does nothing for me with regards to “cementing” it, I believed my eyes way before all this “He needs a World Cup” crap, my eyes do not deceive me in that no player I’ve seen past and present has ever been on this guys Level, Maradona is the closest but not nearly as gifted as Messi imo.

Exactly how I feel, he had done enough even before he landed in Qatar to be called the greatest of all time.

 

[Suedesi]

That’s very subjective. That he is too 4 is not even in question.

Pele I have ranked #4 he simply isn’t better then the other 3 and his stats and accolades beg many questions.

Peak Maradona has a huge case for #1 but his reign at the top was not long enough.Which is why I have h 3.

I don’t think any players in history have achieved the peak level and form for as long a period as Ronaldo and Messi hence they own every record in the game.

Ronaldo rivaled Messi for 15+ years and he won 5 Balon D Or in “Messi’s era” who you say is the greatest ever. So that must mean was pretty god dam close to Mr.Messi.

But instead on this forum you see bird brain comments like “cruyff or ronaldinho” can be argued 4th. No they can’t .

Ronaldo Messi Maradona and Pele are so far ahead of anyone the game has seen it’s not close imo. That is the Mount Rushmore of the sport.

Cristiano Ronaldo is a fraud compared to Pele, Maradona and Messi. All those Balons D'Or means feck all when he's never scored a single goal in knockout stages of the World Cup. Not a single one.

Pele has won 3x World Cup - what's questionable about that? Maradona was the best player of the 80's and dragged his team to two WC finals, utterly dominating 1986. And Messi has beat him every step of the way on every metric that counts.

 

[Kramer]

Messi is the greatest of all time. No debate

 

[Canagel]

Pele being ranked 4th might be a worse take than Ronaldo being the GOAT was.

 

[TheNewEra]

For me its:
1. Messi - 10
2. Pele - 9.8
3. Maradona - 9.5
4. Ronaldo - 8.6
5. Cruyff, Zidane etc... - 8.2

If we're ranking them by a number, Ronaldo hasn't clutched enough major finals for me when his team need him, even in the CLs it was Ramos or Bale in most finals, or a stand out performance from Di Maria the first final they got La Decima.

Ronaldo often scored the goal that followed the winner and he celebrated like he won it.

You never really got the moment of magic that went fecking hell he's special, maybe Juventus the overhead kick but no magic.

Ronaldo is a bit behind the 3 at the top.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I agree with that completely. It's just that it's not be all and end all for me.



It's what probably places him 4th in my view, and 4th is an incredible achievement. But can you really say that Ronaldo is the best/greatest player who ever lived?...because that's what being interchangeable with the other 3 actually means.

Leaving aside the talent factor, can people even definitively state (using stats and legacy) that's he's a greater player than Di Stefano for example?



I get what you're saying, but I think in football terms the notion that talent can simply be equated to a fan's favoured style is wrong. Maradona and Messi are compared not just because they're from the same country but because the way they play the game is similar. And it's that 'style' that is/has been the highest expression of talent in the game - i.e. the dribbling, passing, vision, speed, creativity etc.

True I don’t considered him as the “best” player I have ever seen during his football peaks.

Best player in their respective peak:

Tier 1: Maradona, Messi, Pele, L.Ronaldo
Tier 2: Cruyff, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Ronaldo, Best

Thats probably my honest list. When I say best player, talent/dribbling/passing isn’t the only factor I’d considered, there are also shooting/running/tricks/technique/first touch/long range shooting/athleticism/heading/freekicks etc. Ronaldo has been top performer in many of those.

But in terms of “greatest”, objectively speaking, he is easily among top 3 or 4.

 

[Vapor trail]

Feel people will make more objective assessments when they both retire because the bias will diminish to some extent. Ronaldo has had probably the worst season of his career and that interview will cause a good portion of the United fans to disregard his achievements to some extent. Messi has had his best season (nationals not club level) and therefore carries momentum in any debate of the sort by default.

 

[Water Melon]

Pele is the GOAT. Messi close second.

 

[SportingCP96]

Cristiano Ronaldo is a fraud compared to Pele, Maradona and Messi. All those Balons D'Or means feck all when he's never scored a single goal in knockout stages of the World Cup. Not a single one.

Pele has won 3x World Cup - what's questionable about that? Maradona was the best player of the 80's and dragged his team to two WC finals, utterly dominating 1986. And Messi has beat him every step of the way on every metric that counts.

Club football is a much better delegation of quality then a international tournament.

Pele played in regional leagues.

All 4 reached international success with their country. Thinking only a World Cup defines a player better then another is like saying you eat soup with a fork.

 

[SportingCP96]

Feel people will make more objective assessments when they both retire because the bias will diminish to some extent. Ronaldo has had probably the worst season of his career and that interview will cause a good portion of the United fans to disregard his achievements to some extent. Messi has had his best season (nationals not club level) and therefore carries momentum in any debate of the sort by default.

Ahh so it’s almost like many fans on here are bias. Go figure.

 

[Foxbatt]

These Messi and Ronaldo Fan boys are are proper proper weird bunch.

No no no my guys the GOAT……Erm noooo my guys the GOAT

your the saddest bunch of football fans ever created imo, very bizarre bunch.

For me though Messi is the most talented player I’ve ever seen, he was before the WC Win. This World Cup win does nothing for me with regards to “cementing” it, I believed my eyes way before all this “He needs a World Cup” crap, my eyes do not deceive me in that no player I’ve seen past and present has ever been on this guys Level, Maradona is the closest but not nearly as gifted as Messi imo.

As someone who has seen both of them and Cruijff, Maradona is still better than Messi. Yes both have won the WC. But Diego was better.

 

[Baneofthegame]

Another toxic Messi vs Ronaldo thread? Shocking.

People who fanboi over who is the GOAT in a team sport are mental.

 

[Elcabron]

Incorrect, what Messi has done as a footballer surpasses Maradona by a fair distance.

What Ronaldo has done probably surpasses Maradona as well but doesn't mean he's a better footballer. I'm talking ability not achievements.

 

[Skills]

Ronaldo's never came close to the level Messi reached between 2011 and 2013.

Ronaldo threw his hat in the ring on the back of the 3 CL's & the Euro's that Portugal won between 2016 - 2018. But to anyone with a pair of eyes, it was always clear who the better footballer was all along.

 

[Elcabron]

As someone who has seen both of them and Cruijff, Maradona is still better than Messi. Yes both have won the WC. But Diego was better.

Agreed. Maradona the most talented/gifted. If Maradona had lived the saintly life Messi has there wouldn't even be a debate I think. I can't really speak re Pele as I've never seen him play apart from seeing highlights here and there. The recency bias with Messi is strong right now.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Some proper mental gymnastics in this thread to try and have Cristiano to be greater than Messi/Pele/Maradona.

 

[Donaldo]

The state of this thread

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

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That peak was incredible
And his longevity is astonishing. To do this at 35 was just incredible.

 

[TheNewEra]

Pele is the GOAT. Messi close second.

Hard for us to all know because we didn't see Pele televised weekly but his record, achievements of course put him somewhere at the top.

We could define it in eras of course but nobody comes close to Pele Maradona and Messi

 

[Ladron de redcafe]

For me its:
1. Messi - 10
2. Pele - 9.8
3. Maradona - 9.5
4. Ronaldo - 8.6
5. Cruyff, Zidane etc... - 8.2

If we're ranking them by a number, Ronaldo hasn't clutched enough major finals for me when his team need him, even in the CLs it was Ramos or Bale in most finals, or a stand out performance from Di Maria the first final they got La Decima.

Ronaldo often scored the goal that followed the winner and he celebrated like he won it.

You never really got the moment of magic that went fecking hell he's special, maybe Juventus the overhead kick but no magic.

Ronaldo is a bit behind the 3 at the top.

He has 0 goals and 0 assists at the highest stage of international football (the world cup KO stages).
Across all major tournaments (world cup and Euros), he has 5 goal contributions.

Yeah....he definitely hasn't been clutch at the international level, unlike the other three.

 

[RedRonaldo]

It’s a pretty simplistic way of breaking it down but you also have Puskas and Di Stefano, don’t think the top 4-7 is straight forward after those 3 you can make arguments for any one of those players.

Di Stefano has more European cups than Cruyff but who would say he’s far better than Cruyff with no arguments?

Also its to simplistic an argument to just name trophies because Cruyffs performances in 74 is probably better than anything Ronaldo done on international stage despite Ronaldo actually winning the Euros.

That’s an interesting debate on Cruyff vs Di Stefano. I really do think there are strong arguments on Di Stefano being greater than Cruyff over the years, but truth is they are very close.

It’s simplistic view but the beauty of it is that it does also emphasis on their career highlights which essentially makes them all time greats.

In terms of “greatest”:

Ballon D’or
Cruyff - 3 wins 1 runners up
Di Stefano - 2 wins 1 runners up

CL
Di Stefano - 5 wins
Cruyff - 3 wins

Trophies
Di Stefano - 27 wins
Cruyff - 22 wins

Legacy
Cruyff - revolutionized football as being key part of total football

Di Stefano - key figure in his team’s domestic/European domination which is probably unseen/unmatched in football before Messi/Ronaldo era.

Very closed indeed. While Di Stefano did have more CL and trophies, Cruyff did have more Ballon D’or and memorable performances. I would say they belongs to the same tier.


In terms of the “best”?

I never seen Di Stefano played, and there’s very limited footage available out there, so it’s very hard to say. I am leaning toward Cruyff though but this isn’t fair comparison so it’s open for debate.

 

[Galactic]

The greatest in his own era for sure.

Ronaldo9, Zidane, Cruyff, Maradona, Puskas, deStefano are also greatest in their times.

From my own eyes, Maradona is the best still. More influential too. Messi hasn’t been that great for a few years now. He’s not even that good in most games at this WC.

 

[Joel Miller]

The greatest in his own era for sure.

Ronaldo9, Zidane, Cruyff, Maradona, Puskas, deStefano are also greatest in their times.

From my own eyes, Maradona is the best still. More influential too. Messi hasn’t been that great for a few years now. He’s not even that good in most games at this WC.

Sorry but

 

[AndySmith1990]

As someone who has seen both of them and Cruijff, Maradona is still better than Messi. Yes both have won the WC. But Diego was better.

Nah, Messi is a more talented footballer. Possesses the goal scoring ability of the best strikers, the dribbling of Maradona, and the vision and play making ability of Xavi. He's the ultimate attacking player and has been at the highest level for almost 2 decades, winning everything there is to win. Maradona has the power of nostalgia on his side that will sway some towards preferring him

 

[sherrinford]

Yep, people forget that the PL was rather average from 2012 to 2017 and before that, it wasn't exactly better than La Liga.

Near the end of the 2000s it threatened to establish itself as the strongest league, but La Liga dominated the 2010s. Messi was the best player in the best league.

 

[Zen86]

Aside from the GOAT debate, it's just rare for a football career to have such neat narrative.

There will definitely be a Last Dance style docu-series about him the second he retires.

 

[Pexbo]

The debate is over. This will be a very short and cordial thread with everyone just agreeing.

Form an orderly queue, one post per person. Thank you and goodnight.

Guys, please.

 

[Laurencio]

Nah, Messi is a more talented footballer. Possesses the goal scoring ability of the best strikers, the dribbling of Maradona, and the vision and play making ability of Xavi. He's the ultimate attacking player and has been at the highest level for almost 2 decades, winning everything there is to win. Maradona has the power of nostalgia on his side that will sway some towards preferring him

Not to mention charisma and larger than life personality. That translated to the pitch too. Maradona at his best was magnificent to watch, like a force of nature. In pure footballing ability however, no one is quite like Messi.

 

[reelworld]

What an absolutely perfect career. You can't fault anything in it.

I'd say you can find fault in moving to PSG. But probably in such a dominant team without any real challenge, he could pace himself better and perform better in the World Cup

 

[Foxbatt]

Agreed. Maradona the most talented/gifted. If Maradona had lived the saintly life Messi has there wouldn't even be a debate I think. I can't really speak re Pele as I've never seen him play apart from seeing highlights here and there. The recency bias with Messi is strong right now.

Yes look at Michael Owen. He has more individual honours than George Best. Is he a better player than George Best?
I am not saying that Cristiano was not among the best players. He certainly is among the best. But the best? No. Not even Messi. It's the Man himself Diego Maradona.

 

[Gehrman]

This GOAT stuff is just another example of the **** of the individual that we see pervading all areas of society. In the 90s and 00s I truly don’t recall this constant back and forth debate about GOATs, not just in football but in basketball too.

Its the internet. Back then nerds without lives didnt have these forums.

 

[Zen86]

Its the internet. Back then nerds without lives didnt have these forums.

They were also more concerned with being level 3 wizard elves on D&D than football

 

[amolbhatia50k]

This GOAT stuff is just another example of the **** of the individual that we see pervading all areas of society. In the 90s and 00s I truly don’t recall this constant back and forth debate about GOATs, not just in football but in basketball too.

I agree. I mean how am I supposed to judge players I've barely seen? Anyhoo he's easily the best I've seen and I don't expect that to change for a long while.

 

[HTG]

It always amazes me to see how many people actually take the time to watch loads of old games with the likes of Puskas, Pele or Maradona involved, just to be able to judge these things.

 

[Teritus]

Agreed. Maradona the most talented/gifted. If Maradona had lived the saintly life Messi has there wouldn't even be a debate I think. I can't really speak re Pele as I've never seen him play apart from seeing highlights here and there. The recency bias with Messi is strong right now.

No stronger for me, Elcabron, than the nostalgia bias with Maradona, I rather think.