Worth a try IMO. He brings a different skill set that our current squad don't have.
Wout Weghorst
- Thread starter Samid
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
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We're signing a player to not have to play Anthony Elanga who on current ability is a Championship player if he's lucky. An actual striker who's scored actual goals in top flight football somewhere is an upgrade. He doesn't need to have proven himself to be some kind of likely star at a top PL team.
He'd be coming here to be our Choupo Moting/Divock Origi/Javier Hernandez/Demba Ba. It's funny that this is so hard for you to grasp when you're basically in the same situation with a similar quality of player.
Zlatan, Lukaku
Just wached a load of videos on him on youtube, i know they only show goals and assist but he looks pretty decent. Good on the ground and in the air. Can hold the ball up, link up well. Might be just what we need short term as cover and rotation of martial/ Rashford.
with the club for sale finances will be pretty much frozen.
with the club for sale finances will be pretty much frozen.
The situation of not having a single top striker.
Anyone right now would be great, we have no backup/competition for Martial whatsoever.
But that doesn't prove that he isn't?
If we get him, we will soon find out. He ticks a lot of boxes for us in our present situation, and for that reason, I'd much rather have Wout than nowt.
If this is relying on Besiktas giving the nod to terminate the loan then I won’t be surprised if this dragged as I doubt they will just terminate the loan without signing a replacement first (that’s only if they agree to the termination).
Reports this morning state they are negotiating with Aboubakar
ExactlyWe're signing a player to not have to play Anthony Elanga who on current ability is a Championship player if he's lucky. An actual striker who's scored actual goals in top flight football somewhere is an upgrade. He doesn't need to have proven himself to be some kind of likely star at a top PL team.
He'd be coming here to be our Choupo Moting/Divock Origi/Javier Hernandez/Demba Ba. It's funny that this is so hard for you to grasp when you're basically in the same situation with a similar quality of player.
Ahh well that’s good then. Hopefully get this done soon then.
Waste of decent player, we need to rescue his career plus see about about arranging a loan deal for Felix, he’d be dynamite.
Exactly what I meant. The last proper 9 you could reference left the club nigh 5 years go. Christ, what have we been even doing!?
You'd think we were signing a teen Haaland going by some of these comments.
As long as Martial is fit, he will be nothing more than a Fellaini for us. Any goals would be a bonus, but I mostly expect him to be used as a battering ram against stubborn defenses.
Oh right! We aren't in a position to do anything about that until the summer unfortunately.
I'd like to think we are moving away from the traditional football and into a more modern style. Most big clubs are moving away from the old fashioned 9. Be nice to have options though.
Why is that funny?
I think Antony will do well with the option of having a 9 in the box.
We are joint top 3 in the league and still competitive in every other competition. Why would we be throwing the season away when we are doing great and have a new manager who must be supported? Because our club is ran by morons? Thanks, not OK.
What forum are you reading? I love how people don’t share your massively negative view, so you over play the positively into utter nonsense.
You may need to find another hobby if you seriously think that when Ronaldo left two months ago, EtH said "feck Gakpo and Felix, get me Weghorst instead". What parallel universe is that happening in? I can understand people saying we don't have money (but that is Murtough's fault and he should be fired), but saying that EtH actually wants Weghorst when we are in extremely competitive fight for top 4, and maybe even a trophy is not serious and not funny.
Buyern just signed United's reject. Not every player in the team has to be world class.
The one where he wants an actual striker?
Reject who couldn't get into Ajax' team
EtH was told we are bankupt and he can have nobody or somebody very cheap from a "Dollar Store" So Weghorst is somebody very cheap that may be useful when you are bankrupt. This is not how our new manager should be supported. This is not on EtH, this is on idiots in charge of our club.
The 30 year-old one from Besiktas that is there on loan from Championship Burnley, or some arrogant ass from Al Nassr that was unceremoniously booted when Ronaldo arrived there? The Ronaldo who was a bench warmer for us? Those are the strikers that EtH *wants*? You seriously think that, huh? wow
Also, EtH has backup issues all across the front line. If we get Felix, he can play when Bruno is out, or Rashford is out, or Martial is out. That kind of universal attacker may be what EtH needs, until we have more depth in more areas of the team, have you considered that? Either way, even if EtH wanted a dedicated shotman (which isn't a fact), Weghorst is definitely NOT what he was hoping for while competing with EPL top 6.
Yes he is. Pretty incredible, considering he is taller than an average giraffe
I'll stick with "Cop(per) Road-heap".
Apparently not
Ole may have allowed himself to be fobbed off with players he didn’t want, but nothing so far has indicated that ETH would be that accommodating.
It’s fair enough saying “I don’t want us to sign X because I don’t like him”, but being absolutely certain that the manager shares your view of that player seems to me somewhat foolhardy.
ETH would say that. These players don't even play in same position.
If we can bring him into games where we are struggling and he scores goals, whats the issue?
People here have WAY too big egos. If it's not Mbappe, Felix or Haaland they dont want them.
Look at what we managed with Ighalo last time, we did exactly the same and he did really well.
People here have WAY too big egos. If it's not Mbappe, Felix or Haaland they dont want them.
Look at what we managed with Ighalo last time, we did exactly the same and he did really well.
To date, and under ETH, we are now a club with a sense of purpose and have a management team with a plan. So if WW is ETH choice (within the context of the current financial straight jacket and part of the creative thinking alluded to for the January transfer market)then this, potential, signing must be part of his ongoing creative plan. So I am looking forward to it. Plus it will only take a few crucial goals from him to make a difference in the many many games we have coming up and that difference could ensure we don’t miss out. Perhaps he will create havoc with defenders allowing others to score, either way we do need additional options up front.
Because he didn't get on with a manager who is absolutely dogshite and hated by the dressing room.
I don't think the traditional 9 is as old-fashioned as many make it out to be. Just recently City, Liverpool, Newcastle, Barcelona all spent big what could be classified as traditional 9s. Napoli, Real Madrid, Tottenham, amongst others, utilize such players. Ten Hag has also done so in the past. There are some managers who prefer a more versatile player up front that doesn't fit in the traditional 9 category, but I imagine a lot more other managers simply have to make do without one because of the abject lack of available quality players in that position. This is why such players go for obscene prices in the market.
Cavani was a proper 9. Probably my favourite for us since RvP. His movement was spectacular, if only we'd bought him at his peak
.Felix plays all across the front line. Exactly the kind of player EtH likes. He kept playing Rashford as #9, when Ronaldo was shit and Felix can play #9 way better than Rashford. Also when Martial is fit EtH wants to play Martial, so he doesn't necessarily want a world-class player than can only do #9 and will end up benching Martial. Striker is not his only problem. What is he going to do when Rashford is out? Or Bruno is out? We have no strong backups for them. So you reading somewhere that "omg Felix is not a classical striker" doesn't mean this is how EtH sees his problems. We know he was interested in Gakpo because Gakpo said it himself, and we know Felix is very much interesting to EtH because we are negotiating with them and so much so that Atletico gave us right of first refusal, except we are gonna miss on it because we are bankrupt. But we do know a lot about who EtH wants, it's not some kind of mystery.
Weghorst is a good player.
A different option to Martial, so a good plan b.
Good on the ball, knows where the goal is.
Not sure why people are bringing Elanga into the equation, as Weghorst will be a foil for Martial, but nevermind!
A different option to Martial, so a good plan b.
Good on the ball, knows where the goal is.
Not sure why people are bringing Elanga into the equation, as Weghorst will be a foil for Martial, but nevermind!
Wout Weghorst to Manchester United: Explaining the proposed deal and what he could offer
Andy Jones, Laurie Whitwell and more
Jan 7, 2023
It may not be a big name, but Manchester United may well end up with a big man as their new striker this month.
As The Athletic reported on Saturday evening, the club have held exploratory talks with Championship side Burnley over bringing Wout Weghorst in on loan until the end of the season.
The departure of Cristiano Ronaldo in November increased Manchester United’s need to recruit a new striker, with them lacking options to provide competition for Anthony Martial and requiring further goalscoring options in the team.
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United had at one time been considering Cody Gakpo as a genuine target before he moved to Liverpool for an initial £37million ($44.7m), but budget constraints mean they are now having to explore the loan market to find a replacement for Ronaldo. No permanent options are being assessed at present, even at a low cost.
The deal is a complicated one because Weghorst is currently on loan at Besiktas, who have a €10million option-to-buy clause for the striker.
Weghorst is pushing for the move to Manchester United and the chance to return to England and the Premier League, feeling he has unfinished business after his disappointing six months last season.
His apparent goodbye celebration to Besiktas fans following his goal against Kasimpasa only fuelled the feeling he is ready to go elsewhere.
However, that would require Burnley and Besiktas to agree to break the current loan agreement, allowing Burnley to recall the forward and then allowing him to join Manchester United.
The Dutch international has scored nine goals in 18 appearances for the Turkish side this season, who were expecting their agreement to be honoured and for him to see out the remainder of the campaign with them. They have not welcomed this proposed disruption to their plans and will likely want to be compensated if they are to assist in the deal.
Weghorst is one of a number of names being considered, with several strikers being pursued including Memphis Depay, but Bayern Munich’s Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting and Al-Nassr’s Vincent Aboubakar, now a team-mate of Ronaldo, are not being pursued.
The 30-year-old Weghorst was not discussed by Manchester United in the summer when they were scouring the striker market; even when many were proposed to them, including Marko Arnautovic. Instead, deals were explored for the likes of Alvaro Morata, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, Depay and Mauro Icardi among others.
On the surface, it seems an odd option, but Weghorst, who shot to global attention last month after netting twice in seven minutes for The Netherlands against Argentina in the World Cup quarter-final, particularly when finishing off a smart free-kick move, is a player Erik ten Hag likes.
The Manchester United manager is on board with the potential deal and is very close to Louis Van Gaal, who has managed Weghorst at international level. He is stylistically different to anything the club currently has and at 6ft 6in, he offers an alternative method of playing should there be a need to go more direct.
The pursuit follows Ten Hag’s Dutch-centric transfer approach since arriving at Old Trafford. He and Weghorst hail from the same area of the Netherlands, Twente, and speak with the same accent.
The striker is seen as a quiet and relaxed character off the pitch but on it, he is ultra-competitive and is not scared to share his thoughts with team-mates if he feels they are not pulling their weight.
He has a desire to improve, studying his game closely. During his early weeks at Burnley, he was known to send messages late into the night to team-mates about how they could improve partnerships.
There is a passion, determination and intensity to his play, illustrated by his relentless pressing numbers. At Wolfsburg, he prided himself on being one of the fittest players at the club, regularly topping the distance-covered stats.
He impressed at Burnley, too, with his physical data and fitness levels. Against Wolves last season, Weghorst registered 57 pressures, the most by a player in a single Premier League game that season.
Following the £25million sale of Chris Wood, Burnley identified Weghorst as the man to replace the New Zealand international having tracked him for a while, in the hope his goals would fire them to safety. They came away from the deal feeling they had made an upgrade for half the price due to Weghorst’s wider skillset.
Not only did his goalscoring whet the appetite, but Burnley were impressed with his positional intelligence and ability to drop between the lines to link play and create. He also epitomises the cliched, “good feet for a big man”.
Weghorst showed signs of his ability against Manchester United in his second appearance for Burnley after his January arrival. His magnificent turn away from both Harry Maguire and Scott McTominay in the build-up to Burnley’s equaliser in the 1-1 draw stood out.
His subsequent perfectly weighted pass into Jay Rodriguez underlined his quality.
The problem was that those moments of class were few and far between. He continued to impress initially, scoring his first Burnley goal in a 3-0 victory over Brighton and Hove Albion, but slowly his impact began to fade.
His touches and pressures dropped and there was a feeling he was too team-centred rather than focusing on being the best version of himself.
Burnley’s service to Weghorst did not suit him. Wood was a willing channel-runner and dominant aerially, but the Dutchman proved to be the opposite, struggling aerially for someone of his size in open play and preferring the ball to be played into his feet, with him enjoying dropping into pockets of space to receive possession and link play.
He began to cut a frustrated figure around the training ground because of his own form. There were suggestions he clashed with team-mates due to his confidence, which some took as bordering on arrogance.
This side of him was shown in his clash with Lionel Messi at the World Cup, where he refused to back down to a player of the Argentinian’s stature. Manchester United are not put off by that. They want players with personality and feel the striker will suit Old Trafford more than Turf Moor.
Weghorst infuriated Messi during and after their World Cup game (Photo: ANP via Getty Images)
There was a brief renaissance when Sean Dyche was sacked and replaced by Mike Jackson as he scored his second and final Burnley goal in a 1-1 draw with West Ham and provided the assist in a 1-0 win against Wolves. His struggles reappeared and he finished the season as a substitute, with Ashley Barnes preferred.
His six months at Burnley will forever be defined by his injury-time miss against Aston Villa in the penultimate game of the season. With goalkeeper Emiliano Martinez — another member of that Argentina team — out of the equation and the goal gaping, Weghorst just had to avoid the attempted block of Tyrone Mings to score. He failed and Burnley missed out on two valuable points.
He did not leave on the best of terms either after publicly declaring he wanted to leave Burnley following relegation. There had in fact been an agreement between the player and club when he signed that if Burnley did not survive he would be allowed to leave to keep his World Cup hopes alive.
Six months should not define a player and Weghorst’s goalscoring record in Germany before coming to the Premier League was extremely impressive, with only Lewandowski scoring more from the start of the 2018-19 season until his exit.
According to Squawka, Weghorst has registered the highest expected goals, most shots, most shots on target and had the most touches in the opposition box this season in the Super Liga.
He can score all types of goals. He is a handful who is comfortable receiving the ball and linking play, while he is a huge threat in the box both aerially and with his feet when given the required service, which was not always the case at Burnley. He can occupy defenders and create space for others around him through his movement.
Using data from smarterscout, we can drill into the type of player Manchester United would be getting if he joins, and there have been significant improvements in his game this season compared to his spell at Burnley. Smarterscout data rates players from zero to 99 depending on how often they perform a certain action. It also tells us how effective they are at it compared to others in their position.
Firstly, looking at his pizza chart from his time at Burnley, it illustrates what was discussed above:
As the point of Burnley’s attack, Weghorst frequently played shorter passes to link up play (95 out of 99) and was able to retain possession at an above-average level (57 out of 99), even in a struggling team.
His defensive intensity, which shows how often the player is the most relevant defender when his side are out of possession, highlights his desire to press and be an active defender, but he struggled to do so effectively as his defensive impact, which outlines how well a player prevents the opponent from progressing the ball (5 out of 99), is extremely low.
Compare the pizza chart to this season and a lot has changed:
The standout being the high number of receptions Weghorst is getting in the area (99 out of 99), which is a significant increase to his Burnley rating. Playing in a team expected to be the dominant force in games makes a difference, as Burnley were not a side who dominated possession and attacked opponents with regularity.
He is also shooting more (shot volume; 50 out of 99) and is able to contribute to his side’s ball progression (42 out of 99) and to his team’s chances (xG from shot creation; 40 out of 99).
The latter rating has dropped from his time at Burnley, but that is likely due to his role in possession, as his link-up play volume has dropped dramatically (36 out of 99). He is favouring progressive passes (53 out of 99), which are passes that travel over 10 yards, and as a result, his ball retention has dropped (28 out of 99).
Defensively, he has also become much more effective. His defensive intensity is virtually identical but his defending impact has jumped to 61 out of 99, meaning he is better at stopping opponents from progressing the ball. That is further illustrated by his excellent ability to disrupt opposition moves (86 out of 99) by blocking passing lanes and winning possession back.
He’s come out on top in his attacking duels this season and has been strong from both open play and set-piece headers as well as being tough to move off the ball when dribbling.
Andy Jones, Laurie Whitwell and more
Jan 7, 2023
It may not be a big name, but Manchester United may well end up with a big man as their new striker this month.
As The Athletic reported on Saturday evening, the club have held exploratory talks with Championship side Burnley over bringing Wout Weghorst in on loan until the end of the season.
The departure of Cristiano Ronaldo in November increased Manchester United’s need to recruit a new striker, with them lacking options to provide competition for Anthony Martial and requiring further goalscoring options in the team.
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United had at one time been considering Cody Gakpo as a genuine target before he moved to Liverpool for an initial £37million ($44.7m), but budget constraints mean they are now having to explore the loan market to find a replacement for Ronaldo. No permanent options are being assessed at present, even at a low cost.
The deal is a complicated one because Weghorst is currently on loan at Besiktas, who have a €10million option-to-buy clause for the striker.
Weghorst is pushing for the move to Manchester United and the chance to return to England and the Premier League, feeling he has unfinished business after his disappointing six months last season.
His apparent goodbye celebration to Besiktas fans following his goal against Kasimpasa only fuelled the feeling he is ready to go elsewhere.
However, that would require Burnley and Besiktas to agree to break the current loan agreement, allowing Burnley to recall the forward and then allowing him to join Manchester United.
The Dutch international has scored nine goals in 18 appearances for the Turkish side this season, who were expecting their agreement to be honoured and for him to see out the remainder of the campaign with them. They have not welcomed this proposed disruption to their plans and will likely want to be compensated if they are to assist in the deal.
Weghorst is one of a number of names being considered, with several strikers being pursued including Memphis Depay, but Bayern Munich’s Eric Maxim Choupo-Moting and Al-Nassr’s Vincent Aboubakar, now a team-mate of Ronaldo, are not being pursued.
The 30-year-old Weghorst was not discussed by Manchester United in the summer when they were scouring the striker market; even when many were proposed to them, including Marko Arnautovic. Instead, deals were explored for the likes of Alvaro Morata, Pierre-Emerick Aubameyang, Depay and Mauro Icardi among others.
On the surface, it seems an odd option, but Weghorst, who shot to global attention last month after netting twice in seven minutes for The Netherlands against Argentina in the World Cup quarter-final, particularly when finishing off a smart free-kick move, is a player Erik ten Hag likes.
The Manchester United manager is on board with the potential deal and is very close to Louis Van Gaal, who has managed Weghorst at international level. He is stylistically different to anything the club currently has and at 6ft 6in, he offers an alternative method of playing should there be a need to go more direct.
The pursuit follows Ten Hag’s Dutch-centric transfer approach since arriving at Old Trafford. He and Weghorst hail from the same area of the Netherlands, Twente, and speak with the same accent.
The striker is seen as a quiet and relaxed character off the pitch but on it, he is ultra-competitive and is not scared to share his thoughts with team-mates if he feels they are not pulling their weight.
He has a desire to improve, studying his game closely. During his early weeks at Burnley, he was known to send messages late into the night to team-mates about how they could improve partnerships.
There is a passion, determination and intensity to his play, illustrated by his relentless pressing numbers. At Wolfsburg, he prided himself on being one of the fittest players at the club, regularly topping the distance-covered stats.
He impressed at Burnley, too, with his physical data and fitness levels. Against Wolves last season, Weghorst registered 57 pressures, the most by a player in a single Premier League game that season.
Following the £25million sale of Chris Wood, Burnley identified Weghorst as the man to replace the New Zealand international having tracked him for a while, in the hope his goals would fire them to safety. They came away from the deal feeling they had made an upgrade for half the price due to Weghorst’s wider skillset.
Not only did his goalscoring whet the appetite, but Burnley were impressed with his positional intelligence and ability to drop between the lines to link play and create. He also epitomises the cliched, “good feet for a big man”.
Weghorst showed signs of his ability against Manchester United in his second appearance for Burnley after his January arrival. His magnificent turn away from both Harry Maguire and Scott McTominay in the build-up to Burnley’s equaliser in the 1-1 draw stood out.
His subsequent perfectly weighted pass into Jay Rodriguez underlined his quality.
The problem was that those moments of class were few and far between. He continued to impress initially, scoring his first Burnley goal in a 3-0 victory over Brighton and Hove Albion, but slowly his impact began to fade.
His touches and pressures dropped and there was a feeling he was too team-centred rather than focusing on being the best version of himself.
Burnley’s service to Weghorst did not suit him. Wood was a willing channel-runner and dominant aerially, but the Dutchman proved to be the opposite, struggling aerially for someone of his size in open play and preferring the ball to be played into his feet, with him enjoying dropping into pockets of space to receive possession and link play.
He began to cut a frustrated figure around the training ground because of his own form. There were suggestions he clashed with team-mates due to his confidence, which some took as bordering on arrogance.
This side of him was shown in his clash with Lionel Messi at the World Cup, where he refused to back down to a player of the Argentinian’s stature. Manchester United are not put off by that. They want players with personality and feel the striker will suit Old Trafford more than Turf Moor.
Weghorst infuriated Messi during and after their World Cup game (Photo: ANP via Getty Images)
There was a brief renaissance when Sean Dyche was sacked and replaced by Mike Jackson as he scored his second and final Burnley goal in a 1-1 draw with West Ham and provided the assist in a 1-0 win against Wolves. His struggles reappeared and he finished the season as a substitute, with Ashley Barnes preferred.
His six months at Burnley will forever be defined by his injury-time miss against Aston Villa in the penultimate game of the season. With goalkeeper Emiliano Martinez — another member of that Argentina team — out of the equation and the goal gaping, Weghorst just had to avoid the attempted block of Tyrone Mings to score. He failed and Burnley missed out on two valuable points.
He did not leave on the best of terms either after publicly declaring he wanted to leave Burnley following relegation. There had in fact been an agreement between the player and club when he signed that if Burnley did not survive he would be allowed to leave to keep his World Cup hopes alive.
Six months should not define a player and Weghorst’s goalscoring record in Germany before coming to the Premier League was extremely impressive, with only Lewandowski scoring more from the start of the 2018-19 season until his exit.
According to Squawka, Weghorst has registered the highest expected goals, most shots, most shots on target and had the most touches in the opposition box this season in the Super Liga.
He can score all types of goals. He is a handful who is comfortable receiving the ball and linking play, while he is a huge threat in the box both aerially and with his feet when given the required service, which was not always the case at Burnley. He can occupy defenders and create space for others around him through his movement.
Using data from smarterscout, we can drill into the type of player Manchester United would be getting if he joins, and there have been significant improvements in his game this season compared to his spell at Burnley. Smarterscout data rates players from zero to 99 depending on how often they perform a certain action. It also tells us how effective they are at it compared to others in their position.
Firstly, looking at his pizza chart from his time at Burnley, it illustrates what was discussed above:
As the point of Burnley’s attack, Weghorst frequently played shorter passes to link up play (95 out of 99) and was able to retain possession at an above-average level (57 out of 99), even in a struggling team.
His defensive intensity, which shows how often the player is the most relevant defender when his side are out of possession, highlights his desire to press and be an active defender, but he struggled to do so effectively as his defensive impact, which outlines how well a player prevents the opponent from progressing the ball (5 out of 99), is extremely low.
Compare the pizza chart to this season and a lot has changed:
The standout being the high number of receptions Weghorst is getting in the area (99 out of 99), which is a significant increase to his Burnley rating. Playing in a team expected to be the dominant force in games makes a difference, as Burnley were not a side who dominated possession and attacked opponents with regularity.
He is also shooting more (shot volume; 50 out of 99) and is able to contribute to his side’s ball progression (42 out of 99) and to his team’s chances (xG from shot creation; 40 out of 99).
The latter rating has dropped from his time at Burnley, but that is likely due to his role in possession, as his link-up play volume has dropped dramatically (36 out of 99). He is favouring progressive passes (53 out of 99), which are passes that travel over 10 yards, and as a result, his ball retention has dropped (28 out of 99).
Defensively, he has also become much more effective. His defensive intensity is virtually identical but his defending impact has jumped to 61 out of 99, meaning he is better at stopping opponents from progressing the ball. That is further illustrated by his excellent ability to disrupt opposition moves (86 out of 99) by blocking passing lanes and winning possession back.
He’s come out on top in his attacking duels this season and has been strong from both open play and set-piece headers as well as being tough to move off the ball when dribbling.
True, many people have said just that.
Because Elanga currently gets so many appearances for us because we don't have a backup striker, whether he goes up front himself, or goes out wide with Rashford put up top.
All for this move, ETH has earned our trust. Burnley fan in the comments of above posted article:
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