Yes, we decided you're no longer a proper fan. If you're away for longer than 15 minutes you're a plastic now.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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Nothing really. But voicing opposition to it is not hipocracy as suggested by the previous poster.
I agree on all points. What's got me wondering though is do we really need the Qataris/Saudis for this or will Ratcliffe/the American consortiums be able to provide this/be willing to provide this?
Mike Keegan the GOAT
These kind of posts are far better than people shouting “Arabs bad” from the comfort of their western homes.
Very grounded perspective and quality post mate.I’ve monitored and read (& laughed) at this thread for days/weeks now, without getting involved, because it usually turns into a shit show of politics & close-minded opinions, but here goes anyway:
1) if we’re bought by Qatar, why do we suddenly turn into an oil/plastic club? If they allow the club to not be saddled with debt & allow us to spend what we can afford, without taking dividends out, how does that turn us into a plastic club? If they’re pumping £billions of their own money in transfers, above our spend limit, surely either FFP kicks in, and if it doesn’t, then sure, I’d understand the argument. But just having a simple case of “change of ownership” doesn’t miraculously mean we were relegation candidates artificially turned into challengers. We’ve also been one of the biggest names in football. Also, I’ve worked in corporate my entire career so it might be easier for me to separate ownership from operations (& on field operations). That’s just how business works. & football is business at the end of the day.
2) they’ll spend money on infrastructure and improving the facilities, which is great for the club, again, that doesn’t turn us into an oil club but rather having owners who are investing into the sporting project. Maybe they even finance it through the club, who knows. But it would be great having an owner/sponsor willing to invest into the club, versus seeing the club as a for-profit venture.
3) the world has been going this way since the dawn of time. The wealthy are extremely wealthy but there’s no real right answer in the equation as most of the wealthy generally got there by pillaging/abusing/using the poorest of the poor. Would any/most other owners really be head and shoulders above being owned by the emir of Qatar (or whatever they call him)? Or do you just consider them as such because they fit more into your personal belief system? Why can’t your personal belief system be separated from the ownership of a football club as long as they’re not trying to force their way of thinking down your throat (he’s supposedly been educated in the UK and loves football from that aspect anyway)? Unless you’d prefer another VC type ownership because it’s either sketchy billionaires or “VC type investors at these prices”….
4) maybe I’m too “lenient” or open minded coming from the third world and witnessing its horrors. Horrors most of you (a generalisation as I know it’s not all of you) are not accustomed to, but we experience it almost on the daily. It’s never right, nor should it be normalised, but the world extends, and is far greater than “just the west and your way of life”. There are other ways of life. You might not agree with it but there are, and it’s easy for most of you to sit there and criticise and judge but try being born into that, the family, the teachings, the values….its indoctrination in a form…& then try seeing how easy it is to simply severe ties with those you love because you deem it “wrong” - how would you even define wrong after living in that world your entire life? Seems a few of you look down on the Middle East and their way of life because it doesn’t fit into your own thinking about life and what it should be like. Maybe it works for them? Who knows. I certainly don’t but I find the entire “shutdown” a little condescending because you happened to be born into some sort of “privilege” (not even mentioning how all those privileges were obtained in the fist place).
Anyway, these are my thoughts. Maybe I’m detached because we have other problems to deal with here in our beautiful country, South Africa, where some tribes (and all across Africa I might add, also still struggle with gender equality). Maybe footy or United means less to me than you, who knows. And I’m not even condoning the “sportwashing” angle here, but maybe if everyone was a little more “accepting and forgiving” of some of the unknown, we could also show them the beauty of a different way of life and try and garner change to their regimes in that manner? It’s a weird world we’re living in, where a lot of the wests privilege today was borne out of the suffering of others, and whilst you feel like you might have progressed in lfiezc you might also have left others lagging behind even more, but yet some of you seem unable to “make amends” (why should you?) and give others a chance at change, by simply setting a better example, a more inclusive example.
But I guess these thoughts are too idealistic. Because it’s sports. You know, serious life threatening business in the grander scheme of life.
@golden_blunder sorry for posting “politics” in here as I know we’re trying to keep it only sale related. Was my one and only post of its ilk. I’m doing a lucky scout and saying “not open to replies from me” once I’ve aired my thoughts
Quite refreshing amidst the constant sea of hyperbole in here
That would be great if by them buying us we manage to achieve that and they move with the times and start to act like a civilized and modern nation.
But it's nonsense. Qatar arent going to change their views on Homosexuals, women and workers rights any time soon. Maybe not ever.
If you're willing to look past it that's fine by me. I won't ever stop supporting this club but I will never cheer and support these types of owners.
They could, but quite frankly I don’t trust those regimes as much.
Your quotes two years ago:
“Incredible that it's really just Qatar FC? Don't really get people who are somehow impressed by any of this. Should be illegal”
The next one is about PSG
“I agree with the first part, I absolutely can't stand them their owners are worse than City.”
“Because not every club has a state backing them with limitless funds? How anyone can even think it's right or fair is beyond me it should never have been allowed in the first place. Chelsea was the start, where does it end? Someone buying Scunthorpe and winning them a CL? It's nonsense.”
I would suggest that we're all in the same boat but what are we supposed to do about it? Do we come on here and just say "nah, not for me" then we can go back to watching the football and being excited about the Glazers no longer being involved? What are we supposed to do here? We all agree with everything you've said but there isn't much we can actually do apart from discuss what this all might mean for the club moving forward.
It's a period of celebration folks. We won't be crippled by vile leeches anymore. We are getting our rightful spot as the absolute top dog back. We are merely taking back what belongs to us. We are Manchester fecking United. Our destiny is to be the biggest and best club on the planet. Now is our time again. Enjoy.
Anyone know what @OldSchoolManc thinks of all this?
It isn’t fair. I don’t believe state ownership should exist. But guess what? It does and if you want to compete you need an owner willing to invest in the team and the club in general. I don’t really care who buys as long as money is pumped in. Also, my idealist thinking has changed a lot since then. Opinions are allowed to evolve.
@OldSchoolManc I agree. Shame your thread got binned
Just weird that your ideas aboht fairness and what’s morally right changed when it benefited you though isn’t it.
Scolari oooh
Well integration into the global community has forced change in other nations in the GCC, so I find it extremely negative to suggest that it won't also be a possibility in Qatar. Changes has even happened in KSA and that is a way harder country to change in my opinion.
Football fan in hypocrisy shocker. The landscape is so incredibly fecked that this is the only way out. If this is the way to get rid of the Glazers then I’m more than happy for it to happen. Our history and heritage is set in stone, this is what you don’t seem to realise.
Why do people get so uppity about things they simply have no control over.
I've supported united my entire life. following them home and away has given me some of the best days of my life. I've met people through supporting this club who are genuinely friends for life. It's been such a big part of my life (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this regard) how could you ever turn your back on this.
Yeah ideally someone else would buy the club, but thats just not how business works, the highest bidder will come out on top and I suspect if the qataris want it, they'll get it. I'm not going to be a martyr and turn away from something which has brought so much happiness because of the laws of the land in some third world backward thinking gulf country which happened to strike oil, which wants to buy us.
I've supported united my entire life. following them home and away has given me some of the best days of my life. I've met people through supporting this club who are genuinely friends for life. It's been such a big part of my life (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this regard) how could you ever turn your back on this.
Yeah ideally someone else would buy the club, but thats just not how business works, the highest bidder will come out on top and I suspect if the qataris want it, they'll get it. I'm not going to be a martyr and turn away from something which has brought so much happiness because of the laws of the land in some third world backward thinking gulf country which happened to strike oil, which wants to buy us.
The key aspect.
I don't think any of us foreseen the uprising in Iran, it would be nice if more exposure to some Western cultures helped a similar, but peaceful, revolt in some of the other more oppressive ME countries also.
Ta-ra you sleazeball cnuts
Maybe Av will be able to pay for a decent hair transplant to replace that fecking sack of bollocks hanging from the back of his head
Maybe Av will be able to pay for a decent hair transplant to replace that fecking sack of bollocks hanging from the back of his head
What a world when twigginator is the voice of reason, haha
I'm in the same boat. I can't support owners who believe that homosexuality is a crime, that women are to be treated as second class citizens, and the multitude of other issues I have with the laws of our future owners' country.
But United are my club. Sir Alex and Sir Bobby aren't the ones making this deal. It's being made by a bunch of leeches who stole the club to begin with. The club is innocent in all of this, I feel comfortable continuing to support the club.
BUT if the club stops supporting initiatives like Rainbow Laces or banning certain banners and scarves, then the club will then become associated with bigotry and that will make me walk away.
We can't do anything you're right.
I will always get behind the team and manager but I will never get behind these types of owners.
Of course it will happen, not overnight these are religious societies
Homosexuality was illegal til 1967, we forced chemical castration on a war hero. Just because these societies have the Internet doesn't mean they aren't still a bit behind on this like this, these changes take generations, children who grow up with closer ties with more liberal countries.
Within the last 5 years Saudi Arabia has given women the right to drive and leave the house unaccompanied (I think). This is because they're trying to encourage western investment and tourism which is less likely with more regressive societies, them buying us is a move that's likely to make things better in the long term, not worse
I mean It's hard to believe after watching them bribe their way to host a world cup and then have thousands of workers die for making it happen because of horrendous working conditions.
I'd like to believe any nation can change but I don't think the likes of Saudi Arabia and Qatar will ever share the same values we do.
The club cannot take Qatari money to just go and buy players, we have to buy players out of our own income, we still have a significant income. What we cannot afford ourselves is build a new stadium & training ground etc..
The only way that we can increase our income within FFP is to expand or re-build the stadium to 80,000. Increase ticket prices and have more success on the pitch. This will generate more income.
We have never struggled to get huge sponsorship deals. This is what has kept us spending big in the transfer market each season. Qatari association could introduce us to new sponsors, as they want to do business with sovereign wealth funds. The mutual benefits are obvious.
But the days of go out and buy who you want are over. Unless you are making a billion a year. Or handing out 8 year contracts like Chelsea.
The only way that we can increase our income within FFP is to expand or re-build the stadium to 80,000. Increase ticket prices and have more success on the pitch. This will generate more income.
We have never struggled to get huge sponsorship deals. This is what has kept us spending big in the transfer market each season. Qatari association could introduce us to new sponsors, as they want to do business with sovereign wealth funds. The mutual benefits are obvious.
But the days of go out and buy who you want are over. Unless you are making a billion a year. Or handing out 8 year contracts like Chelsea.
This is my hoping too.
The more the West and the Gulf states mix, the more it'll accelerate them into a more open way of thinking.
The spotlight has been well and truly on Qatar with the world cup, and will continue to be if they buy United.
Don't think you can compare the situation in Iran with the rest of the ME. Iran also have history with nearly uprisings (if that's a saying?). Mainly because the issues are mostly related to foreigners and I struggle to see an uprising coming from that group - also because it's very nuanced. For instance, many are happy just to get work and opportunities are bigger than what they would find in their home countries, even if they are being treated unfairly in the eyes of Westerners. It's also not a very homogenous group as they come from all over the world.
I could probably write pages on why I feel the situation in the ME is way more nuanced (don't mistake that for defending issues) than what the Western media makes out, but not sure if this is the forum for it.
But in short - there's strong evidence that integration into the Western sphere has forced changes in some parts of GCC, even naturally, which by all accounts could have a domino effect on the rest of the region.
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Can you please explain how it’s a ‘cheat code’? We’re not a fecking nothing club like City or PSG that need to break rules, make shady deals and work around the clock to convince everyone we’re a big club.
Most of the money that needs to be spent is off-field on stadium and facilities. We’ve got the right manager finally and without leeches bleeding the club we can target top players well within FFP and whatever other rules exist. We’ve spent ridiculous money in the last decade anyway, just really poorly. We need owners who want United to be the best club in the world without expecting a financial return. Playing football manger and spending £200M every transfer window is not necessary and won’t be the case anyway.
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The thing is, religion is so ingrained among older people there (and not targeting any individual religion, our society being religious in the 50s was a big role in our failings with lgbt rights), that it won't change them, but from what I've heard younger generations there are less concerned with that and growing up culturally closer to countries where these rights are taken for granted is going to improve things. Not in 5 years probably not in 10, but in 20-30 years as older people die off and a more tolerant youth come through it will happen
Any Qatari robes for sale? Might wear one to the Leicester game on Sunday. 
Wall of text.. but I saw my name so all goodI’ve monitored and read (& laughed) at this thread for days/weeks now, without getting involved, because it usually turns into a shit show of politics & close-minded opinions, but here goes anyway:
1) if we’re bought by Qatar, why do we suddenly turn into an oil/plastic club? If they allow the club to not be saddled with debt & allow us to spend what we can afford, without taking dividends out, how does that turn us into a plastic club? If they’re pumping £billions of their own money in transfers, above our spend limit, surely either FFP kicks in, and if it doesn’t, then sure, I’d understand the argument. But just having a simple case of “change of ownership” doesn’t miraculously mean we were relegation candidates artificially turned into challengers. We’ve also been one of the biggest names in football. Also, I’ve worked in corporate my entire career so it might be easier for me to separate ownership from operations (& on field operations). That’s just how business works. & football is business at the end of the day.
2) they’ll spend money on infrastructure and improving the facilities, which is great for the club, again, that doesn’t turn us into an oil club but rather having owners who are investing into the sporting project. Maybe they even finance it through the club, who knows. But it would be great having an owner/sponsor willing to invest into the club, versus seeing the club as a for-profit venture.
3) the world has been going this way since the dawn of time. The wealthy are extremely wealthy but there’s no real right answer in the equation as most of the wealthy generally got there by pillaging/abusing/using the poorest of the poor. Would any/most other owners really be head and shoulders above being owned by the emir of Qatar (or whatever they call him)? Or do you just consider them as such because they fit more into your personal belief system? Why can’t your personal belief system be separated from the ownership of a football club as long as they’re not trying to force their way of thinking down your throat (he’s supposedly been educated in the UK and loves football from that aspect anyway)? Unless you’d prefer another VC type ownership because it’s either sketchy billionaires or “VC type investors at these prices”….
4) maybe I’m too “lenient” or open minded coming from the third world and witnessing its horrors. Horrors most of you (a generalisation as I know it’s not all of you) are not accustomed to, but we experience it almost on the daily. It’s never right, nor should it be normalised, but the world extends, and is far greater than “just the west and your way of life”. There are other ways of life. You might not agree with it but there are, and it’s easy for most of you to sit there and criticise and judge but try being born into that, the family, the teachings, the values….its indoctrination in a form…& then try seeing how easy it is to simply severe ties with those you love because you deem it “wrong” - how would you even define wrong after living in that world your entire life? Seems a few of you look down on the Middle East and their way of life because it doesn’t fit into your own thinking about life and what it should be like. Maybe it works for them? Who knows. I certainly don’t but I find the entire “shutdown” a little condescending because you happened to be born into some sort of “privilege” (not even mentioning how all those privileges were obtained in the fist place).
Anyway, these are my thoughts. Maybe I’m detached because we have other problems to deal with here in our beautiful country, South Africa, where some tribes (and all across Africa I might add, also still struggle with gender equality). Maybe footy or United means less to me than you, who knows. And I’m not even condoning the “sportwashing” angle here, but maybe if everyone was a little more “accepting and forgiving” of some of the unknown, we could also show them the beauty of a different way of life and try and garner change to their regimes in that manner? It’s a weird world we’re living in, where a lot of the wests privilege today was borne out of the suffering of others, and whilst you feel like you might have progressed in lfiezc you might also have left others lagging behind even more, but yet some of you seem unable to “make amends” (why should you?) and give others a chance at change, by simply setting a better example, a more inclusive example.
But I guess these thoughts are too idealistic. Because it’s sports. You know, serious life threatening business in the grander scheme of life.
@golden_blunder sorry for posting “politics” in here as I know we’re trying to keep it only sale related. Was my one and only post of its ilk. I’m doing a lucky scout and saying “not open to replies from me” once I’ve aired my thoughts
A majority of the fan base lives outside Manchester and in general outside England.
No one has any power to veto the Qataris or anyone for that matter. That's how the glazers came along and where able to sustain for so long.
Fans in general look forward to the weekend to watch united, discuss the performances, argue and move on.
The middle east regimes might have a patchy record when it comes to sports washing, human rights etc but if it's not united, it's some other club.
Any one else from the west is not great either for the club either.
If the glazers had not poked multiple holes in the United infrastructure from not upgrading the facilities to letting the stadium become outdated, getting stupid people to run the club, waste money on non united quality players, many in here would not be supporting them selling the club to Qatari future owners not would we have needed anyone. We where a self sustaining club sure to fergie's brilliance.
We now need the injection of money to get to a proper world class level where teams like even Spurs have left us behind and the worst nightmares of Liverpool winning the ucl and the league has come true.
The best case would have been a proper united billionaire fan who has earned his money the right way, is liberal, is able to wipe off the debt and inject unlimited money into united's infra. But there are no good billionaires. No one can be one without earning money by piling on the misery on the common man.
I am not happy about what's going on but I am unable to fault people wanting to be finally happy post the Fergie years after more than a decade of being also rans on a spurs level of incompetence.
Also the difference between city and united is different as everything city have won is post them having a rich owner while rich owners are ready to buy united due to what we are. A global brand and a football club with a global following.
Just hope it all works out.
No one has any power to veto the Qataris or anyone for that matter. That's how the glazers came along and where able to sustain for so long.
Fans in general look forward to the weekend to watch united, discuss the performances, argue and move on.
The middle east regimes might have a patchy record when it comes to sports washing, human rights etc but if it's not united, it's some other club.
Any one else from the west is not great either for the club either.
If the glazers had not poked multiple holes in the United infrastructure from not upgrading the facilities to letting the stadium become outdated, getting stupid people to run the club, waste money on non united quality players, many in here would not be supporting them selling the club to Qatari future owners not would we have needed anyone. We where a self sustaining club sure to fergie's brilliance.
We now need the injection of money to get to a proper world class level where teams like even Spurs have left us behind and the worst nightmares of Liverpool winning the ucl and the league has come true.
The best case would have been a proper united billionaire fan who has earned his money the right way, is liberal, is able to wipe off the debt and inject unlimited money into united's infra. But there are no good billionaires. No one can be one without earning money by piling on the misery on the common man.
I am not happy about what's going on but I am unable to fault people wanting to be finally happy post the Fergie years after more than a decade of being also rans on a spurs level of incompetence.
Also the difference between city and united is different as everything city have won is post them having a rich owner while rich owners are ready to buy united due to what we are. A global brand and a football club with a global following.
Just hope it all works out.
WE had so many fans who always claimed they didn't care about City, because due to their state financed doping their achievements didn't matter. The thing is, I feel the same will be true for us if Qatar buys us.
Agreed with that. Similarly to racism IMO, the next 2/3 generations and I think it'll be a LOT rarer.
Many of the elder generation grew up with no mixing, but now children are quite used to seeing Asian or Black people in their classrooms or communities.
Be interesting to see an age breakdown of who opposes Qatar to the point of no longer supporting the club.
Well it was you two years ago so how old are you now?
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