Club Sale | It’s done!

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redcucumber

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I think you could be making a mistake in assuming he knows.
Ha! Very true.

It'll just spill into another. Better to keep it in 1 place and let people talk it out.

People have opinions, fears and questions - better to get it out.

This could all be conjecture anyway, Qatar might not even win the bid?
Agreed. As long as it stays above the belt, fans should be able to hash it out.
 

Wumminator

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I agree, the global money that has poured into English football is not a new thing, but to say this has happened without a peep is wrong. The protest against Murdoch buying United, for example, was huge and thankfully it was stopped, the Green and Gold campaign, lots of people were very uncomfortable with Ambramovich, Dubai and more recently Saudi Arabia.

The introduction of nation states into the game is just another horrifying step down that line, again there will be protests and outcry, but s long as people who run the game are coining it in sadly nothing will change. But for me, and I'm very aware I am one opinion in many, it's a sad and slippery slope and football is driving down it like a Ferrari on a bobsleigh track.
fecking hell - I can’t imagine how annoyed I would be as a Brighton fan at these events.
 

devilish

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When you mix religion/church with state and/or legal system you will always be hanging behind when it comes to human rights, individual freedom and progress in general. Far behind.
In countries where power is shared by just a few and religion has a strong hold - positive changes for the masses tend to happen extremely slowly, if at all.
People living in dictatorships doesn't necessarily know they are being held back and that the informationflow they have access to is filtered and sensored.
There was a poster in here that claimed he trusted the laws because they were based on religion.....
I agree. Hence why I disagree with those who automatically tags as ridiculous those who believe that the majority of Qatari women are happy with the way they are living. I saw an entire generation of women who were happy with being treated in similar conditions myself. Even in 2023 women politicians barely make it into the Maltese parliament despite the fact that the best current politician BY FAR is a woman (we're talking Churchill vs Truss gap here). Malta is a EU country btw, who is democratic, who has strong British and European roots and whose got more women voters then men. Yet women constantly refuse to vote women politicians and they are insanely conservative on issues such as abortion for example. As said Malta has more rigid abortion rules then Saudi.
 
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HarryP

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Absolutely, we get a few debts paid and we’re good to go as a sustainable business. But we’re not going to dive into spending 300m every window which some fans seem to think this means
There would be endless opportunities for the Qataris to create legitimate revenue streams directly connected to the club. Redeveloping the stadium and the surrounding area would definitely add quite a bit. There would be many more global avenues too. City have done it - although lots of their sponsorships and revenue streams are artificial, some of them aren't. The potential for Utd is limitless if they actively tried to build revenue paths (which they would)
 

Withnail

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I’m not sure. If I read ffp correctly then stadium and training ground costs doesn’t count towards spend so building a new stadium would being in naming rights etc that goes straight on to the credit side for ffp.
That’s why I don’t like this deal as a football fan. It can be constant 300m every year. Oh last years signing flopped, sell him for half price. At 40m and that’s give us extra for this summer on top as well.
We have the shirt sponsor renewal and Adidas as well plus the example I just mentioned that could completely buff up our spend alone.
Add in probable CL money as well. It wouldn’t be far off
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think we missed the boat on stadium costs etc. If I recall correctly infrastructure costs will now be included in FFP.
 

owlo

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I find this thread interesting; logged in for the first time in years to give some thoughts. There's a lot of somewhat understandable mental gymnastics going on, and the place seems to be split into a few camps.

1. Those wanting to take a stand - These people would generally rather see the club in debt and struggling, than a sportswashing regime take over. If the US or Israeli government bid, they'd probably hold the same view. They either hate state ownership, or slave workers, or lack of womens rights, or general sportswashing. But their view is on principle. For some if it happens, that's the club dead to them.

2. Those 'resigned' to the fact we'll be taken over by somebody, and they probably won't be a good guy. It doesn't sit comfortable, but they love the club, and they'd rather be rich and win than poor and lose so support a ME bid. They may make some light justifications like 'maybe we can improve rights in qatar etc'. They will continue to support the club and bear the owners through grit teeth.

3. Those who don't care, they just want to win. Bring on the richest bidder. Maybe they'll wear some nice ME clothes after the takeover like the Newcastle fans did.

4. Those who are cheerleading for the ME, and using the discomfort in the first two groups to accuse of xenophobia, racism, etc etc. It's strange to me, as it's blindingly obvious that if the state of israel made a bid, they would have a collective aneurism and suddenly be in camp one. I don't really understand why this group isn't simply in camp 3, and instead are attempting to recreate a reality that the ME are good guys and their culture is no more distasteful than ours.

In short, it seems some people are cashing in on the ME interest to advance ME political interests and discourse, which I find weird as hell. There should be absolutely no reason to attempt to defend Qatar and its human rights records etc; simply don't respond. But a group of people are going out of their way to interact and attack groups one and two and recreate reality. It's become a political football in the football forum...

I don't know what to think of it all really. And I'm probably shamefully in camp 2. I won't stop supporting the club or watching etc.
 
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Fahad Jawaid

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You can't limit the debate to those narrow parameters. Of course, if any state is attempting to purchase the club we are going to discuss the merits of that regime and their record on human rights etc.

Attempting to stifle debate and throwing racism and islamophobia accusations around isn't going to make anyone take you very seriously.
I am all up for debating the merits of the regime, I am not originally from middle east myself and even I agree their labour laws could be improved for expats that are living there.

As for women rights, things are getting better gradually, I am working in a ME bank in which half the workforce is women and they drive aswell.

Even Saudia have allowed women to perform Pilgrimage without their male guardian and have opened up driving for women etc.

My gripe is when things are linked with religion, which should not be the case.
 

golden_blunder

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Can't speak for everyone but for me the transfers are secondary to other issues at the club anyway, we already spend a lot. I want us to be debt free and the new owners to heavily invest in infrastructure such as the stadium, training facilities and the academy which the Glazers haven't given a toss about.
Agreed
 

Wumminator

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I am all up for debating the merits of the regime, I am not originally from middle east myself and even I agree their labour laws could be improved for expats that are living there.

As for women rights, things are getting better gradually, I am working in a ME bank in which half the workforce is women and they drive aswell.

Even Saudia have allowed women to perform Pilgrimage without their male guardian and have opened up driving for women etc.

My gripe is when things are linked with religion, which should not be the case.
Who has linked anything to religion? Isn’t that… you?
 

Wumminator

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I find this thread interesting; logged in for the first time in years to give some thoughts. There's a lot of somewhat understandable mental gymnastics going on, and the place seems to be split into a few camps.

1. Those wanting to take a stand - These people would generally rather see the club in debt and struggling, than a sportswashing regime take over. If the US or Israeli government bid, they'd probably hold the same view. They either hate state ownership, or slave workers, or lack of womens rights, or general sportswashing. But their view is on principle. For some if it happens, that's the club dead to them.

2. Those 'resigned' to the fact we'll be taken over by somebody, and they probably won't be a good guy. It doesn't sit comfortable, but they love the club, and they'd rather be rich and win than poor and lose so support a ME bid. They may make some light justifications like 'maybe we can improve rights in qatar etc'. They will continue to support the club and bear the owners through grit teeth.

3. Those who don't care, they just want to win. Bring on the richest bidder. Maybe they'll wear some nice ME clothes after the takeover like the Newcastle fans did.

4. Those who are cheerleading for the ME, and using the discomfort in the first two groups to accuse of xenophobia, racism, etc etc. It's strange to me, as it's blindingly obvious that if the state of israel made a bid, they would have a collective aneurism and suddenly be in camp one. I don't really understand why this group isn't simply in camp 3, and instead are attempting to recreate a reality that the ME are good guys and their culture is no more distasteful than ours.

In short, it seems some people are cashing in on the ME interest to advance ME political interests and discourse, which I find weird as hell. There should be absolutely no reason to attempt to defend Qatar and its human rights records etc; simply don't respond. But a group of people are going out of their way to interact and attack groups one and two and recreate reality. It's become a political football in the football forum...

I don't know what to think of it all really. And I'm probably shamefully in camp 2. I won't stop supporting the club or watching etc.
A lot of the people in camp four are working/living in the ME from reading the thread. Great summary though.
 

Chief123

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some of you make me sick. chasing the qatari dollar and not thinking long term. how stupid you’re gonna look when old trafford is turned into a mosque and players are forced to wear turbans. we’ll have to put up with arranged transfers and instead of kneeling for racism before the game, the players will have to kneel and pray to mecca five times during the game, allowing the opposition free rein to score. players like phil jones, deemed surplus to requirement, will be burnt down the ganges.

banning women and gays from coming to the ground on matchday does make sense though.
It’s bollocks mocking posts like this that get allowed on here under the banner of humour which the mods will most likely turn a blind eye too.
 

The Boy

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fecking hell - I can’t imagine how annoyed I would be as a Brighton fan at these events.
From a Brighton point of view, I'm over the moon with our owner and catching up and matching the likes of United, Chelsea etc has never been a reality. We are higher now than at any other point in our history so I'm just happy to enjoy it while it lasts. Though I do think there's the odd poster here that could do with a bit of time in League 1 to understand how football is for most English fans!
 

golden_blunder

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There would be endless opportunities for the Qataris to create legitimate revenue streams directly connected to the club. Redeveloping the stadium and the surrounding area would definitely add quite a bit. There would be many more global avenues too. City have done it - although lots of their sponsorships and revenue streams are artificial, some of them aren't. The potential for Utd is limitless if they actively tried to build revenue paths (which they would)
I agree that there is still huge untapped potential. I still don’t think we as fans should see this as it meaning that we go out and drop 100m on every player we want. We have a responsibility to ensure we don’t break the market for it to never recover from. We’re already pushing 40m valuations for “ok” players.
 

Wumminator

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From a Brighton point of view, I'm over the moon with our owner and catching up and matching the likes of United, Chelsea etc has never been a reality. We are higher now than at any other point in our history so I'm just happy to enjoy it while it lasts. Though I do think there's the odd poster here that could do with a bit of time in League 1 to understand how football is for most English fans!
I’d just be fuming that you - as an example as an amazingly run club - are locked out of top four by these nation state clubs.Not fair at all.
 

devilish

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How are Qatar managing PSG? Are they managing it correctly? @JPRouve and @kouroux might give us a better idea of what to expect if this happens.
 

iHicksy

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Not sure I like any post that starts with "let's keep morals out of this" ....especially from an Admin.
 

devilish

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Not sure I like any post that starts with "let's keep morals out of this" ....especially from an Admin.
golden blunder is right. There is another thread who tackles this issue.
 

Adam-Utd

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Not sure I like any post that starts with "let's keep morals out of this" ....especially from an Admin.
The point he's making is it's supposed to be about the sale of the club, not to discuss whether we agree with middle eastern rules/values.

Perhaps start a new thread?
 

JPRouve

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How are Qatar managing PSG? Are they managing it correctly? @JPRouve and @kouroux might give us a better idea of what to expect if this happens.
They are managed similarly to pretty much all big clubs. They try to do a good job, hire people that are generally competent and spend money when needed. The only issue with PSG has been with Al Khelaifi being a known active member of Paris nightlife with some of the players which happened to be seen as teacher's pets.

As far as I know they have always given total freedom to whoever they hire as the DOF until it's clear that he is doing something wrong and managers generally get what they want within reason. Honestly there isn't much to say, at least nothing that separate them from the way wealthy clubs are run.

Edit: For you maybe Inter under Moratti could be a good reference.
 

Pogue Mahone

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How are Qatar managing PSG? Are they managing it correctly? @JPRouve and @kouroux might give us a better idea of what to expect if this happens.
Did you watch them last night? Did they look to you like a club that has invested insane amounts of money wisely? See also basically every CL campaign they’ve had since the takeover (along with a few crappy domestic league campaigns too)
 

I’m loving my life

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Not sure I like any post that starts with "let's keep morals out of this" ....especially from an Admin.
I think it’s needed as there is no chance of a constructive discussion otherwise on the sale and its outcomes. As he said there’s a specific thread to discuss the morality issue which needs to also be constructive
 

Dan_F

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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think we missed the boat on stadium costs etc. If I recall correctly infrastructure costs will now be included in FFP.
I wouldn’t have thought so. No one would ever be able to build a new stadium in that case. Imagine Spurs having to factor extra expenditure of 1 billion into their accounting.
 

devilish

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Did you watch them last night? Did they look to you like a club that has invested insane amounts of money wisely? See also basically every CL campaign they’ve had since the takeover (along with a few crappy domestic league campaigns too)
Shit can hit fan even when things are run properly. For example SAF was at the brink of losing the dressing room which then led to the cull of Ince, Kanchelskis and Gillespie. So I think its beneficial to everyone who do not follow the French league (including myself) to know the details from those who actually follow it
 

devilish

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They are managed similarly to pretty much all big clubs. They try to do a good job, hire people that are generally competent and spend money when needed. The only issue with PSG has been with Al Khelaifi being a known active member of Paris nightlife with some of the players which happened to be seen as teacher's pets.

As far as I know they have always given total freedom to whoever they hire as the DOF until it's clear that he is doing something wrong and managers generally get what they want within reason. Honestly there isn't much to say, at least nothing that separate them from the way wealthy clubs are run.

Edit: For you maybe Inter under Moratti could be a good reference.
Is it that bad?
 

iHicksy

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The point he's making is it's supposed to be about the sale of the club, not to discuss whether we agree with middle eastern rules/values.

Perhaps start a new thread?
I haven't been posting in this thread, just reading - but I would suggest that the two things are intrinsically linked and you can't really have a discussion about Qatar buying the club without discussing the moral ramifications of such a sale. But that's just my opinion :)
 

HarryP

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I agree that there is still huge untapped potential. I still don’t think we as fans should see this as it meaning that we go out and drop 100m on every player we want. We have a responsibility to ensure we don’t break the market for it to never recover from. We’re already pushing 40m valuations for “ok” players.
Yes I totally agree, I would still expect us to be prudent with transfers. Walk away when we deem a price to be too high (as City have done with Sanchez, Fred, Maguire, Kane). If we allow ourselves to get our pants pulled down all the time, our financial advantage will get wiped out in short order. You can also help your rivals if you're overpaying for players - for eg. Barcelona have played a big role in Liverpool's recent success by handing them an absolute fortune for Coutinho.


I think the main benefit to the proposed Qatari ownership are:

1) Top class stadium + training facilities
2) Marginal spending advantage over the other top clubs

When you combine 1) and 2), it instantly makes the club a more attractive prospect for players because there will always be confidence that we'll compete at the highest level (or that we're unlikely to be ever far away)

As you say, the advantage won't be derived from from early day Abramovich spending each season (which isn't a smart strategy anyway, even if it were possible under FFP)
 

We need an rvn

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How are Qatar managing PSG? Are they managing it correctly? @JPRouve and @kouroux might give us a better idea of what to expect if this happens.
Whilst I’m not one at all against the Qatar group buying us (I think when it comes to billionaire owners most have demons that some don’t mind and others do)

what I am concerned about is some of the purchases they have made lately and the insane and unsustainable wage bill - not to mention the dressing room upset that goes with the disparity in wages amongst first team players.

a €730m wage bill and an annual loss of c. €370m is not something I want United to get into.

Ideally they’d want to invest in the academy, stadium, infrastructure whilst still promoting the ‘United’ philosophy but at the same time enabling us to get a Kane or someone like that should we need without thinking too much about finances.
 

devilish

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It was but it's not a current issue, iirc it was a particular issue around 15-17.
If that's the case then its not a huge problem. After all they were new in football. However I wouldn't like a Moratti situation were you had Branca and him acting like 12 year olds who were playing football manager. Silvestre once said that the manager asked for a striker at one point only to end up with 3 left backs.
 

Rake

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So, how exactly are things going to play out after the soft deadline on Friday? Interesting parties will submit their bids but will there be a renegotiation of offers afterwards? Also, will there be another window for additional interested parties to bid again?
 

JPRouve

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Whilst I’m not one at all against the Qatar group buying us (I think when it comes to billionaire owners most have demons that some don’t mind and others do)

what I am concerned about is some of the purchases they have made lately and the insane and unsustainable wage bill - not to mention the dressing room upset that goes with the disparity in wages amongst first team players.

a €730m wage bill and an annual loss of c. €370m is not something I want United to get into.

Ideally they’d want to invest in the academy, stadium, infrastructure whilst still promoting the ‘United’ philosophy but at the same time enabling us to get a Kane or someone like that should we need without thinking too much about finances.
It's totally off topic but the bolded part is one of the biggest nonsense that I have seen in recent years. There has never been and will never be a big club where there isn't a large disparity in terms of wages. Teams are rarely made of players that have the same age or the same talent across the entirety of the teams which is why the top earners in top teams earn far more than the bench/squad players or the young/very young players.

As an example in a club like Bayern you have players that earn 2-3 millions a year and others that earn 20-23 millions. And that example is true everywhere without any noticeable upset because players aren't completely dumb, they know their place in the hierarchy.
 

Fahad Jawaid

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Did you watch them last night? Did they look to you like a club that has invested insane amounts of money wisely? See also basically every CL campaign they’ve had since the takeover (along with a few crappy domestic league campaigns too)
I think having three absolute star players who are awful defensively will create that problem, I think you can carry one star player in a side, while all others have to work hard to compensate his shortcoming/workrate. We technically had Rooney, Ronaldo and Tevez but the latter two were workhorses, the prime Barca side used to cover for Messi's pressing.
 

JPRouve

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If that's the case then its not a huge problem. After all they were new in football. However I wouldn't like a Moratti situation were you had Branca and him acting like 12 year olds who were playing football manager. Silvestre once said that the manager asked for a striker at one point only to end up with 3 left backs.
Antero Henrique has acted like a 12 years old on a few occasions, as have Leonardo. Personally I put that on them because both have shown that they can do their job properly but I don't know if it's too much freedom or something else that led them to take some boneheaded decision, in the case of Leonardo you have signing Icardi for a big fee when Tuchel didn't like his profile. That's an example of the bad things, while it was Leonardo's job to build the team, El Khelaifi seemingly failed to arbitrate between his DOF and his head coach.

So the good thing is that Doha didn't get in the way of Football people but the bad thing is that Doha didn't get in the way of Football people. They looked at the result and told Leonardo to find a new job after Leonardo pushed Tuchel away.
 

Red the Bear

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Folks let’s keep the morals out of this one, there is a thread for that. Let’s focus on the details of the actual sale process please
Just direct any unrelated posts to another thread (there's already one about state backed ownership on the main page) and thread ban those who insist.

This thread has become nauseating.
 
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