crossy1686
career ending
Yes, we decided you're no longer a proper fan. If you're away for longer than 15 minutes you're a plastic now.I've been away for 45 mins. have we decided what a proper fan is yet?
Yes, we decided you're no longer a proper fan. If you're away for longer than 15 minutes you're a plastic now.I've been away for 45 mins. have we decided what a proper fan is yet?
What can people do about who The Glazers sell to though?
I agree on all points. What's got me wondering though is do we really need the Qataris/Saudis for this or will Ratcliffe/the American consortiums be able to provide this/be willing to provide this?I don't think that player recruitment is where we'll feel the impact of the new ownership the most.
Think it'll be them transforming our aging infrastructure and bringing it all into the modern era that'll be the biggest culture shock for us.
We've heavily underinvested in that area since our last change of ownership and have let all the other big clubs around us surpass us in that regard.
Turning us into a state of the art operation again is long overdo and will be fitting for a club of our stature
These kind of posts are far better than people shouting “Arabs bad” from the comfort of their western homes.I like this post. Great to have some views from other parts of the world.
Very grounded perspective and quality post mate.I’ve monitored and read (& laughed) at this thread for days/weeks now, without getting involved, because it usually turns into a shit show of politics & close-minded opinions, but here goes anyway:
1) if we’re bought by Qatar, why do we suddenly turn into an oil/plastic club? If they allow the club to not be saddled with debt & allow us to spend what we can afford, without taking dividends out, how does that turn us into a plastic club? If they’re pumping £billions of their own money in transfers, above our spend limit, surely either FFP kicks in, and if it doesn’t, then sure, I’d understand the argument. But just having a simple case of “change of ownership” doesn’t miraculously mean we were relegation candidates artificially turned into challengers. We’ve also been one of the biggest names in football. Also, I’ve worked in corporate my entire career so it might be easier for me to separate ownership from operations (& on field operations). That’s just how business works. & football is business at the end of the day.
2) they’ll spend money on infrastructure and improving the facilities, which is great for the club, again, that doesn’t turn us into an oil club but rather having owners who are investing into the sporting project. Maybe they even finance it through the club, who knows. But it would be great having an owner/sponsor willing to invest into the club, versus seeing the club as a for-profit venture.
3) the world has been going this way since the dawn of time. The wealthy are extremely wealthy but there’s no real right answer in the equation as most of the wealthy generally got there by pillaging/abusing/using the poorest of the poor. Would any/most other owners really be head and shoulders above being owned by the emir of Qatar (or whatever they call him)? Or do you just consider them as such because they fit more into your personal belief system? Why can’t your personal belief system be separated from the ownership of a football club as long as they’re not trying to force their way of thinking down your throat (he’s supposedly been educated in the UK and loves football from that aspect anyway)? Unless you’d prefer another VC type ownership because it’s either sketchy billionaires or “VC type investors at these prices”….
4) maybe I’m too “lenient” or open minded coming from the third world and witnessing its horrors. Horrors most of you (a generalisation as I know it’s not all of you) are not accustomed to, but we experience it almost on the daily. It’s never right, nor should it be normalised, but the world extends, and is far greater than “just the west and your way of life”. There are other ways of life. You might not agree with it but there are, and it’s easy for most of you to sit there and criticise and judge but try being born into that, the family, the teachings, the values….its indoctrination in a form…& then try seeing how easy it is to simply severe ties with those you love because you deem it “wrong” - how would you even define wrong after living in that world your entire life? Seems a few of you look down on the Middle East and their way of life because it doesn’t fit into your own thinking about life and what it should be like. Maybe it works for them? Who knows. I certainly don’t but I find the entire “shutdown” a little condescending because you happened to be born into some sort of “privilege” (not even mentioning how all those privileges were obtained in the fist place).
Anyway, these are my thoughts. Maybe I’m detached because we have other problems to deal with here in our beautiful country, South Africa, where some tribes (and all across Africa I might add, also still struggle with gender equality). Maybe footy or United means less to me than you, who knows. And I’m not even condoning the “sportwashing” angle here, but maybe if everyone was a little more “accepting and forgiving” of some of the unknown, we could also show them the beauty of a different way of life and try and garner change to their regimes in that manner? It’s a weird world we’re living in, where a lot of the wests privilege today was borne out of the suffering of others, and whilst you feel like you might have progressed in lfiezc you might also have left others lagging behind even more, but yet some of you seem unable to “make amends” (why should you?) and give others a chance at change, by simply setting a better example, a more inclusive example.
But I guess these thoughts are too idealistic. Because it’s sports. You know, serious life threatening business in the grander scheme of life.
@golden_blunder sorry for posting “politics” in here as I know we’re trying to keep it only sale related. Was my one and only post of its ilk. I’m doing a lucky scout and saying “not open to replies from me” once I’ve aired my thoughts
If anything it's them putting themselves in the spotlight that has highlighted the issues, not the other way around. And whilst hosting a WC would get you temporary scrutiny, owning United would mean issues would probably be raised daily. That's what I'm hoping them buying United will cause - continued pressure, leading to dialogue and eventually change.
I agree on all points. What's got me wondering though is do we really need the Qataris/Saudis for this or will Ratcliffe/the American consortiums be able to provide this/be willing to provide this?
Strange thought that. Very strange.
I would suggest that we're all in the same boat but what are we supposed to do about it? Do we come on here and just say "nah, not for me" then we can go back to watching the football and being excited about the Glazers no longer being involved? What are we supposed to do here? We all agree with everything you've said but there isn't much we can actually do apart from discuss what this all might mean for the club moving forward.That would be great if by them buying us we manage to achieve that and they move with the times and start to act like a civilized and modern nation.
But it's nonsense. Qatar arent going to change their views on Homosexuals, women and workers rights any time soon. Maybe not ever.
If you're willing to look past it that's fine by me. I won't ever stop supporting this club but I will never cheer and support these types of owners.
It isn’t fair. I don’t believe state ownership should exist. But guess what? It does and if you want to compete you need an owner willing to invest in the team and the club in general. I don’t really care who buys as long as money is pumped in. Also, my idealist thinking has changed a lot since then. Opinions are allowed to evolve.Your quotes two years ago:
“Incredible that it's really just Qatar FC? Don't really get people who are somehow impressed by any of this. Should be illegal”
The next one is about PSG
“I agree with the first part, I absolutely can't stand them their owners are worse than City.”
“Because not every club has a state backing them with limitless funds? How anyone can even think it's right or fair is beyond me it should never have been allowed in the first place. Chelsea was the start, where does it end? Someone buying Scunthorpe and winning them a CL? It's nonsense.”
It isn’t fair. I don’t believe state ownership should exist. But guess what? It does and if you want to compete you need an owner willing to invest in the team and the club in general. I don’t really care who buys as long as money is pumped in. Also, my idealist thinking has changed a lot since then. Opinions are allowed to evolve.
Scolari ooohYour quotes two years ago:
“Incredible that it's really just Qatar FC? Don't really get people who are somehow impressed by any of this. Should be illegal”
The next one is about PSG
“I agree with the first part, I absolutely can't stand them their owners are worse than City.”
“Because not every club has a state backing them with limitless funds? How anyone can even think it's right or fair is beyond me it should never have been allowed in the first place. Chelsea was the start, where does it end? Someone buying Scunthorpe and winning them a CL? It's nonsense.”
That would be great if by them buying us we manage to achieve that and they move with the times and start to act like a civilized and modern nation.
But it's nonsense. Qatar arent going to change their views on Homosexuals, women and workers rights any time soon. Maybe not ever.
If you're willing to look past it that's fine by me. I won't ever stop supporting this club but I will never cheer and support these types of owners.
Football fan in hypocrisy shocker. The landscape is so incredibly fecked that this is the only way out. If this is the way to get rid of the Glazers then I’m more than happy for it to happen. Our history and heritage is set in stone, this is what you don’t seem to realise.Just weird that your ideas aboht fairness and what’s morally right changed when it benefited you though isn’t it.
The key aspect.Football fan in hypocrisy shocker. The landscape is so incredibly fecked that this is the only way out. If this is the way to get rid of the Glazers then I’m more than happy for it to happen. Our history and heritage is set in stone, this is what you don’t seem to realise.
I don't think any of us foreseen the uprising in Iran, it would be nice if more exposure to some Western cultures helped a similar, but peaceful, revolt in some of the other more oppressive ME countries also.Well integration into the global community has forced change in other nations in the GCC, so I find it extremely negative to suggest that it won't also be a possibility in Qatar. Changes has even happened in KSA and that is a way harder country to change in my opinion.
Your quotes two years ago:
“Incredible that it's really just Qatar FC? Don't really get people who are somehow impressed by any of this. Should be illegal”
The next one is about PSG
“I agree with the first part, I absolutely can't stand them their owners are worse than City.”
“Because not every club has a state backing them with limitless funds? How anyone can even think it's right or fair is beyond me it should never have been allowed in the first place. Chelsea was the start, where does it end? Someone buying Scunthorpe and winning them a CL? It's nonsense.”
I'm in the same boat. I can't support owners who believe that homosexuality is a crime, that women are to be treated as second class citizens, and the multitude of other issues I have with the laws of our future owners' country.That would be great if by them buying us we manage to achieve that and they move with the times and start to act like a civilized and modern nation.
But it's nonsense. Qatar arent going to change their views on Homosexuals, women and workers rights any time soon. Maybe not ever.
If you're willing to look past it that's fine by me. I won't ever stop supporting this club but I will never cheer and support these types of owners.
I would suggest that we're all in the same boat but what are we supposed to do about it? Do we come on here and just say "nah, not for me" then we can go back to watching the football and being excited about the Glazers no longer being involved? What are we supposed to do here? We all agree with everything you've said but there isn't much we can actually do apart from discuss what this all might mean for the club moving forward.
That would be great if by them buying us we manage to achieve that and they move with the times and start to act like a civilized and modern nation.
But it's nonsense. Qatar arent going to change their views on Homosexuals, women and workers rights any time soon. Maybe not ever.
If you're willing to look past it that's fine by me. I won't ever stop supporting this club but I will never cheer and support these types of owners.
Well integration into the global community has forced change in other nations in the GCC, so I find it extremely negative to suggest that it won't also be a possibility in Qatar. Changes has even happened in KSA and that is a way harder country to change in my opinion.
This is my hoping too.Of course it will happen, not overnight these are religious societies
Homosexuality was illegal til 1967, we forced chemical castration on a war hero. Just because these societies have the Internet doesn't mean they aren't still a bit behind on this like this, these changes take generations, children who grow up with closer ties with more liberal countries.
Within the last 5 years Saudi Arabia has given women the right to drive and leave the house unaccompanied (I think). This is because they're trying to encourage western investment and tourism which is less likely with more regressive societies, them buying us is a move that's likely to make things better in the long term, not worse
I don't think any of us foreseen the uprising in Iran, it would be nice if more exposure to some Western cultures helped a similar, but peaceful, revolt in some of the other more oppressive ME countries also.
Can you please explain how it’s a ‘cheat code’? We’re not a fecking nothing club like City or PSG that need to break rules, make shady deals and work around the clock to convince everyone we’re a big club.You're ready to bet that everyone is as easily swayed by a football manager cheat code as (I presume) you are?
This is my hoping too.
The more the West and the Gulf states mix, the more it'll accelerate them into a more open way of thinking.
The spotlight has been well and truly on Qatar with the world cup, and will continue to be if they buy United.
Wall of text.. but I saw my name so all goodI’ve monitored and read (& laughed) at this thread for days/weeks now, without getting involved, because it usually turns into a shit show of politics & close-minded opinions, but here goes anyway:
1) if we’re bought by Qatar, why do we suddenly turn into an oil/plastic club? If they allow the club to not be saddled with debt & allow us to spend what we can afford, without taking dividends out, how does that turn us into a plastic club? If they’re pumping £billions of their own money in transfers, above our spend limit, surely either FFP kicks in, and if it doesn’t, then sure, I’d understand the argument. But just having a simple case of “change of ownership” doesn’t miraculously mean we were relegation candidates artificially turned into challengers. We’ve also been one of the biggest names in football. Also, I’ve worked in corporate my entire career so it might be easier for me to separate ownership from operations (& on field operations). That’s just how business works. & football is business at the end of the day.
2) they’ll spend money on infrastructure and improving the facilities, which is great for the club, again, that doesn’t turn us into an oil club but rather having owners who are investing into the sporting project. Maybe they even finance it through the club, who knows. But it would be great having an owner/sponsor willing to invest into the club, versus seeing the club as a for-profit venture.
3) the world has been going this way since the dawn of time. The wealthy are extremely wealthy but there’s no real right answer in the equation as most of the wealthy generally got there by pillaging/abusing/using the poorest of the poor. Would any/most other owners really be head and shoulders above being owned by the emir of Qatar (or whatever they call him)? Or do you just consider them as such because they fit more into your personal belief system? Why can’t your personal belief system be separated from the ownership of a football club as long as they’re not trying to force their way of thinking down your throat (he’s supposedly been educated in the UK and loves football from that aspect anyway)? Unless you’d prefer another VC type ownership because it’s either sketchy billionaires or “VC type investors at these prices”….
4) maybe I’m too “lenient” or open minded coming from the third world and witnessing its horrors. Horrors most of you (a generalisation as I know it’s not all of you) are not accustomed to, but we experience it almost on the daily. It’s never right, nor should it be normalised, but the world extends, and is far greater than “just the west and your way of life”. There are other ways of life. You might not agree with it but there are, and it’s easy for most of you to sit there and criticise and judge but try being born into that, the family, the teachings, the values….its indoctrination in a form…& then try seeing how easy it is to simply severe ties with those you love because you deem it “wrong” - how would you even define wrong after living in that world your entire life? Seems a few of you look down on the Middle East and their way of life because it doesn’t fit into your own thinking about life and what it should be like. Maybe it works for them? Who knows. I certainly don’t but I find the entire “shutdown” a little condescending because you happened to be born into some sort of “privilege” (not even mentioning how all those privileges were obtained in the fist place).
Anyway, these are my thoughts. Maybe I’m detached because we have other problems to deal with here in our beautiful country, South Africa, where some tribes (and all across Africa I might add, also still struggle with gender equality). Maybe footy or United means less to me than you, who knows. And I’m not even condoning the “sportwashing” angle here, but maybe if everyone was a little more “accepting and forgiving” of some of the unknown, we could also show them the beauty of a different way of life and try and garner change to their regimes in that manner? It’s a weird world we’re living in, where a lot of the wests privilege today was borne out of the suffering of others, and whilst you feel like you might have progressed in lfiezc you might also have left others lagging behind even more, but yet some of you seem unable to “make amends” (why should you?) and give others a chance at change, by simply setting a better example, a more inclusive example.
But I guess these thoughts are too idealistic. Because it’s sports. You know, serious life threatening business in the grander scheme of life.
@golden_blunder sorry for posting “politics” in here as I know we’re trying to keep it only sale related. Was my one and only post of its ilk. I’m doing a lucky scout and saying “not open to replies from me” once I’ve aired my thoughts
Agreed with that. Similarly to racism IMO, the next 2/3 generations and I think it'll be a LOT rarer.The thing is, religion is so ingrained among older people there (and not targeting any individual religion, our society being religious in the 50s was a big role in our failings with lgbt rights), that it won't change them, but from what I've heard younger generations there are less concerned with that and growing up culturally closer to countries where these rights are taken for granted is going to improve things. Not in 5 years probably not in 10, but in 20-30 years as older people die off and a more tolerant youth come through it will happen
Be interesting to see an age breakdown of who opposes Qatar to the point of no longer supporting the club.