We will never win the league with Bruno Fernandes in the team...

[Siorac]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Freak result.

7-0 is certainly freakish but the stat shows that overall Liverpool were much better today. And that is partly down to Bruno. He's one of many reasons our team simply didn't work today.

 

[Siorac]

Wout is exceptionally limited and is merely filling a void left by Martial being utterly unreliable.

But he actually isn't filling that void. He plays behind the main striker in these big games which is weird - you'd think we could just put Bruno there...

 

[BluesJr]

He’s played his part and I thank him for that but the sooner we upgrade the better.

 

[Siorac]

Don't see Arteta or Pep playing Odegaard or De Bruyne out of position.

I think that's pretty much the point of the OP: in his position we need someone who will always be preferred to Wout effing Weghorst in his nominally best position.

 

[The United]

Wout is exceptionally limited and is merely filling a void left by Martial being utterly unreliable.

But Wout is playing in the middle and according to you, Bruno was shifted to the wide. If Wout is that limited, Bruno must be very bad to make way for him?

 

[vanrooney]

some of you are so negative. one loss and everything is shit again. we are developing and had a setback - now its about regrouping and i am very interested to see how we react

 

[Josep Dowling]

The problem with Bruno is he’s constantly looking for the Hollywood pass which gives the ball to the opposition half the time. This means we lack any form of control in midfield. I would rather have Eriksen playing number 10 with a box to box next to Casemiro. We need to start controlling the football to compete at the very top.

Either that or we get two top class DM behind him but that won’t stop Bruno giving up easy possession.

 

[Jeppers7]

Give it a break. The guy averages a goal or an assist every single game. Our most consistent player since Fergie.

Every time we have a bad result or someone doesn't like his body language, he's public enemy number 1 again.

That’s complete and utter bollocks.

The last two seasons he’s averaging a goal every 351 minutes and an assist every 439 mins.

He’s not been consistent since his first half season

 

[Sandikan]

But Wout is playing in the middle and according to you, Bruno was shifted to the wide. If Wout is that limited, Bruno must be very bad to make way for him?

Bruno wasn't shifted wide according to me. He was actually, literally shifted wide.

Some games it may look like genius. But you have to wonder.

 

[j65454]

41 goals in 111 appearances for an attacking midfielder is an immense return.

 

[The United]

Bruno wasn't shifted wide according to me. He was actually, literally shifted wide.

Some games it may look like genius. But you have to wonder.

I am trying to understand with what you said. You said you wonder if he would be in the plan because he played out wide at times. Do you think it is because Bruno is not a good player or it is because ETH tried to tweak his tactic too much?

 

[Maluco]

Some of you are living in dreamland. Talking about upgrading Bruno when we have Wout as our main striker, no other midfield options, terrible sub center backs, no quality right backs, and a goalkeeper on 300k that just saved nothing in a 7-0 loss.

There is so, so much today before an upgrade on Bruno even makes it onto the first page of a priority list.

 

[Cascarino]

some of you are so negative. one loss and everything is shit again. we are developing and had a setback - now its about regrouping and i am very interested to see how we react

I think from a holistic view you're right. Your side has been incredibly consistent recently and it's been a great season so far (relative to last season). I mean it was only a week ago you picked up silverware for the first time in 6 years. Today has all the hallmarks of a freak result, Liverpool came into the game on patchy form, United excellent form, every shot seemed to go in for Liverpool. I don't think today is indicative of anything and as you said it's all about regrouping and reacting in the right manner, and I do think you'll put it quickly behind you and there'll be no real lasting negative impact

I do think the OP was right when they originally made the claim in the thread title. I can understand why it seems harsh to so many when he's been an important player for your lot, but I think fundamentally his approach and skillset doesn't suit a team competing for the highest honours. I think he lacks the ability to run a game at the highest level, he's very creative and is a player who is always going to consistently create, but his lack of finesse when it come to slowing the game down, dictating the play and being able to operate at his own rhythm holds him back. It can often be a 100mph with Bruno because he struggles to play any other way. He's very creative, and he's very hard working, so he's hardly a problem. But a team built around him isn't going to win the PL.

 

[JustinC00]

some of you are so negative. one loss and everything is shit again. we are developing and had a setback - now its about regrouping and i am very interested to see how we react

Mate ETH decided Bruno wasn't the best fit at his position today and Wout Weghorst was preferred instead in a match against a bitter rival. He's actually done this multiple times this season. He did it against Leeds away. He did it against Barca away., He did it against Leicester putting Sancho at #10 pushing Bruno out wide

Would not surprise me if ETH's plan is to phase Bruno out for Sancho at #10 next year.

 

[Tony Clifton]

Some of you are living in dreamland. Talking about upgrading Bruno when we have Wout as our main striker, no other midfield options, terrible sub center backs, no quality right backs, and a goalkeeper on 300k that just saved nothing in a 7-0 loss.

There is so, so much today before an upgrade on Bruno even makes it onto the first page of a priority list.

Agree with that, but Bruno should not always start these big matches away to top teams. And it's not about Bruno per se, it's about accommodating an attacking midfielder.

Some matches are better suited for a more traditional midfield, who work best in the middle of the park, rather than being auxiliary forwards/wingers/attacking midfielders. This goes for Weghorst too but he's been here only a couple of months and he's just on loan, it's temporary. The Bruno conundrum has been going on since Ole, Rangnick and continues now under Ten Hag.

Today was a match for a midfield three of Casemiro + Fred + Sabitzer/McTominay, where focus should've been on winning balls in midfield or deeper, and triggering counter-attacks with the pace of Rashford + Sancho + Anthony/Garnacho. Rashford should've created a lot of problems for Trent today. Did Rashford and Trent compete in a footrace for one single ball today? Not sure, but I don't think they did…?

We made the same mistake away against City in October. Then with an even more open midfield behind Bruno, when we had Eriksen + McTominay as the double pivot. We usually lose the midfield battles in these big matches and have been doing so for a few seasons.

 

[Roboc7]

We probably won’t but have more pressing issues to address. Attitude in second half was a disgrace though.

 

[Rightnr]

Well, here we are again... I won't get on his neck because he's played A LOT of football for us this season but he's just not got the quality.

I actually thought it would have been good to put him back in the midfield to do his running, same way he's used for Portugal. Definitely need to think how to best utilise him but the wing is not it.

His crosses have been abysmal as of late and his finishing has also deteriorated and that was a main attribute of his previously.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Well, here we are again... I won't get on his neck because he's played A LOT of football for us this season but he's just not got the quality.

I actually thought it would have been good to put him back in the midfield to do his running, same way he's used for Portugal. Definitely need to think how to best utilise him but the wing is not it.

His crosses have been abysmal as of late and his finishing has also deteriorated and that was a main attribute of his previously.

Hrm? For Portugal typically Bernardo drops deeper into midfield and Bruno stays higher on the right side.

 

[Rightnr]

Hrm? For Portugal typically Bernardo drops deeper into midfield and Bruno stays higher on the right side.

I guess my point is that for Portugal, he's more of a workhorse, not a creative engine. In any case, feels like we won't get to the top of pyramid with him.

 

[hobbers]

It is hopeful for the long term that ETH already seems to have demoted him from being a starting number 10 or midfielder. Almost every game he's playing right or left wing now. Fred and Weghorst are preferred in the centre. Is that because we dont have the quality on the wings or is that because Bruno doesnt have the quality as a deeper lying midfielder. Probably both.

But whatever you think about him being a starter, he cant get the armband again. He's the furthest from captain material of any player in the starting eleven, and that's not going to change.

 

[marktan]

Agree with that, but Bruno should not always start these big matches away to top teams. And it's not about Bruno per se, it's about accommodating an attacking midfielder.

Some matches are better suited for a more traditional midfield, who work best in the middle of the park, rather than being auxiliary forwards/wingers/attacking midfielders. This goes for Weghorst too but he's been here only a couple of months and he's just on loan, it's temporary. The Bruno conundrum has been going on since Ole, Rangnick and continues now under Ten Hag.

Today was a match for a midfield three of Casemiro + Fred + Sabitzer/McTominay, where focus should've been on winning balls in midfield or deeper, and triggering counter-attacks with the pace of Rashford + Sancho + Anthony/Garnacho. Rashford should've created a lot of problems for Trent today. Did Rashford and Trent compete in a footrace for one single ball today? Not sure, but I don't think they did…?

We made the same mistake away against City in October. Then with an even more open midfield behind Bruno, when we had Eriksen + McTominay as the double pivot. We usually lose the midfield battles in these big matches and have been doing so for a few seasons.

This is a good post.

In the end it comes from tactical nativity from Ten Haag in big games, and also probably under rating the importance of rotation in a heavily packed fixture schedules. SAF was great at both of these points. Hopefully ETH learns quickly.

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

His best role is as a 10 - as a shadow striker. He lacks the passing range but has the ridiculous ambition of a deeper lying playmaker, and he drifts out of games too much if he's wide left or right. He's got to play behind a striker, with Rashford wide one side, Sancho/Garnacho the other.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I guess my point is that for Portugal, he's more of a workhorse, not a creative engine. In any case, feels like we won't get to the top of pyramid with him.

Ah I see! I agree with you to some extent - and full disclosure I also am of the opinion that Portugal are better without Bruno as he's a bit of an awkward fit tactically.

 

[Sly]

I guess my point is that for Portugal, he's more of a workhorse, not a creative engine. In any case, feels like we won't get to the top of pyramid with him.

Nope. Wrong. He was our most creative player along Felix in the WC. Good numbers in terms of assists and goals. He's completely knackered. His decision making has been quite sub par.

 

[Rightnr]

This is a good post.

In the end it comes from tactical nativity from Ten Haag in big games, and also probably under rating the importance of rotation in a heavily packed fixture schedule. SAF was great at both of these points. Hopefully ETH learns quickly.

You can say that but Bruno was also undroppable under the previous regime as well. It's bizarre how he's got this plot shield where we cannot seem to drop him because he runs a lot.

Ah I see! I agree with you to some extent - and full disclosure I also am of the opinion that Portugal are better without Bruno as he's a bit of an awkward fit tactically.

He just seems like a player that's got good attributes but playing him takes away too much from the team.

Nope. Wrong. He was our most creative player along Felix in the WC. Good numbers in terms of assists and goals. He's completely knackered. His decision making has been quite sub par.

I agree, my point is somewhat not relevant to the WC and I was surprised how well he did there but previously, I thought he wasn't rated as the creator for portugal.

 

[Sly]

Ah I see! I agree with you to some extent - and full disclosure I also am of the opinion that Portugal are better without Bruno as he's a bit of an awkward fit tactically.

Are you portuguese? He was our best player in the WC ffs. Now that Ronaldo is gone, he will be the leader since Bernardo is rubbish in our NT. I'm not a fan of Felix but I believe him and Bruno will be driving force.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Are you portuguese? He was our best player in the WC ffs. Now that Ronaldo is gone, he will be the leader since Bernardo is rubbish in our NT. I'm not a fan of Felix but I believe him and Bruno will be driving force.

I'm not Portuguese but my wife is and I live just outside of Lisbon.

You think Bruno was your best player in the WC? I haven't heard that from even the most dedicated Sportingistas in my life! For me Felix and Pepe were definitely clear and I think you can make cases for others as well.

 

[Sly]

I'm not Portuguese but my wife is and I live just outside of Lisbon.

You think Bruno was your best player in the WC? I haven't heard that from even the most dedicated Sportingistas in my life! For me Felix and Pepe were definitely clear and I think you can make cases for others as well.

Felix? Cmon selective memory. Bruno had a very good WC and United fans were very pleased with his campaign. I remember clearly. Bruno had better numbers than Felix statistics wise and in MoM. Also it has nothing to do with clubism. If you want to sound clever at least use the word right "Sportinguista". I sincerily doubt you know more Sporting fans than me since I'm a lifelong fan and season ticket holder for decades now. I'll definitely go with my sample rather than someone who probably hasn't put a foot in our stadium. Don't speak for Sporting fans. You don't have the authority. Pepe I'll definitely give him credit, but he's always superb in the NT.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Felix? Cmon selective memory. Bruno had a very good WC and United fans were very pleased with his campaign. I remember clearly. Bruno had better numbers than Felix statistics wise and in MoM. Also it has nothing to do with clubism. If you want to sound clever at least use the word right "Sportinguista". I sincerily doubt you know more Sporting fans than me since I'm a lifelong fan and season ticket holder for decades now. I'll definitely go with my sample rather than someone who probably hasn't put a foot in our stadium. Don't speak for Sporting fans. You don't have the authority. Pepe I'll definitely give him credit, but he's always superb in the NT.

Mate, my FIL is a Sporting season ticket holder as well - been to something like 2-3 matches per year. Apologies for the misspelling - my Portuguese isn't where it should be given the pandemic and I've been at the rodizio for dinner enjoying several caipirinhas. I certainly wasn't trying to speak for Sporting fans in the slightest - just that I watched and discussed all of the matches of the Selecao with a mix of Benfica and Sporting fans given the family I married into, and no one thought Bruno was the best player.

I don't think Bruno was awful at the WC or anything - but Felix did a lot more in terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into play. Think it's also a point against Bruno that against Morocco when Portugal could attack either one of the best fullbacks in the world or the backup Moroccan left back, nothing of significance was being created down the right by Bruno and Bernardo. It's all well and good to score against Uruguay when the stakes are lower, but you can't possibly deny that the team was let down by the right side of the attack in that quarterfinal.

 

[Slevs]

Unfortunately, I am starting to believe this might be true.

 

[DJ_21]

We won’t win the league with him our wide. He’s more effective in the middle.

 

[Sly]

Mate, my FIL is a Sporting season ticket holder as well - been to something like 2-3 matches per year. Apologies for the misspelling - my Portuguese isn't where it should be given the pandemic and I've been at the rodizio for dinner enjoying several caipirinhas. I certainly wasn't trying to speak for Sporting fans in the slightest - just that I watched and discussed all of the matches of the Selecao with a mix of Benfica and Sporting fans given the family I married into, and no one thought Bruno was the best player.

I don't think Bruno was awful at the WC or anything - but Felix did a lot more in terms of holding the ball up and bringing others into play. Think it's also a point against Bruno that against Morocco when Portugal could attack either one of the best fullbacks in the world or the backup Moroccan left back, nothing of significance was being created down the right by Bruno and Bernardo. It's all well and good to score against Uruguay when the stakes are lower, but you can't possibly deny that the team was let down by the right side of the attack in that quarterfinal.

Let's just agree to disagree. Your sample is very limited, selective and I give no credibility. Everyone bar Pepe (who even so missed the biggest chance, an inexcusable miss) played bad against Marocco. If you understand any portuguese and watched any of the programs of portuguese pundits (Rui Santos, David Borges, Ribeiro Cristóvão etc) you would understand that Bruno along with Pepe and Felix were the most praised. Even Benfica fans with their anti Ronaldo agenda, pushed to have Bruno as Captain. If we are talking of rival fan mates, I can tell you that no Benfica fan mate of mine rated Bernardo higher than Bruno in the WC.

But it's pointless to come to any consensus. We will have to agree to disagree.

 

[Rightnr]

Let's just agree to disagree. Your sample is very limited, selective and I give no credibility. Everyone bar Pepe (who even so missed the biggest chance, an inexcusable miss) played bad against Marocco. If you understand any portuguese and watched any of the programs of portuguese pundits (Rui Santos, David Borges, Ribeiro Cristóvão etc) you would understand that Bruno along with Pepe and Felix were the most praised. Even Benfica fans with their anti Ronaldo agenda, pushed to have Bruno as Captain. If we are talking of rival fan mates, I can tell you that no Benfica fan mate of mine rated Bernardo higher than Bruno in the WC.

But it's pointless to come to any consensus. We will have to agree to disagree.

He was good for Portugal but United is a much higher level than international football nowadays (or well, should be atleast). That is why I think he's not good enough - he can do it against weak to middy teams but against the top sides, he doesn't cut the mustard and surely you'd agree with that.

I consider him a Lukaku-level player - great to pummel the smaller fry but you need a KdB for the top 6.

 

[Offside]

I think if you look at the likes of Rooney and Giggs who people used to moan about being wasteful then Fernandes could fit into that bracket. He’s constantly trying things and sometimes it comes off to great effect, and he has displayed great numbers in the past.

But he just lacks a basic close control and technical ability for me to the point where he’s beyond wasteful at times and more borderline criminal. We need someone who has the G/A he can provide but is actually a technically quality player. He’s miles off the level of old United players you could compare him with, like Giggs or Rooney as I mentioned.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

Some of you are living in dreamland. Talking about upgrading Bruno when we have Wout as our main striker, no other midfield options, terrible sub center backs, no quality right backs, and a goalkeeper on 300k that just saved nothing in a 7-0 loss.

There is so, so much today before an upgrade on Bruno even makes it onto the first page of a priority list.

That doesn't disprove the idea that we aren't going to win title with Bruno though. It only shows that we are further from it then we'd like to believe.

 

[Sly]

He was good for Portugal but United is a much higher level than international football nowadays (or well, should be atleast). That is why I think he's not good enough - he can do it against weak to middy teams but against the top sides, he doesn't cut the mustard and surely you'd agree with that.

I consider him a Lukaku-level player - great to pummel the smaller fry but you need a KdB for the top 6.

Nope, I don't agree. In all these years Bruno has had good performances against top clubs. And the comparison with Lukaku is laughable. My opinion is that there are much bigger problems than Bruno in your team. And although I highly rate EtH, for me he has the biggest blame of the Liverpool debacle. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a one off and I do think he has the capability to win big. Perhaps getting a proper Football director with a clear strategy. Spending 100mil on Antony was tragic. I don't have the same faith on this player as I have on EtH.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Let's just agree to disagree. Your sample is very limited, selective and I give no credibility. Everyone bar Pepe (who even so missed the biggest chance, an inexcusable miss) played bad against Marocco. If you understand any portuguese and watched any of the programs of portuguese pundits (Rui Santos, David Borges, Ribeiro Cristóvão etc) you would understand that Bruno along with Pepe and Felix were the most praised. Even Benfica fans with their anti Ronaldo agenda, pushed to have Bruno as Captain. If we are talking of rival fan mates, I can tell you that no Benfica fan mate of mine rated Bernardo higher than Bruno in the WC.

But it's pointless to come to any consensus. We will have to agree to disagree.

Watched plenty of those shows - and are you really trying to default to the punditry on Portuguese TV as a metric? That is perhaps the most pathetic appeal to authority I've ever seen, given the state of journalism in this country.

Again - I never said Bruno was bad. He generally played well. But he was by no means the best Portuguese player at the WC and I stand by my assertion that the team would be better without him - Bruno is an awkward fit tactically, and if the choice is between him or Joao Felix so Leao can play down the left, I'm taking Felix every time.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

I really do hope we sell him in the summer. If he was playing against us in another team, I wouldn't be worried about him a bit. Which says a lot.

 

[Rightnr]

Nope, I don't agree. In all these years Bruno has had good performances against top clubs. And the comparison with Lukaku is laughable. My opinion is that there are much bigger problems than Bruno in your team. And although I highly rate EtH, for me he has the biggest blame of the Liverpool debacle. Don't get me wrong, I think it was a one off and I do think he has the capability to win big. Perhaps getting a proper Football director with a clear strategy. Spending 100mil on Antony was tragic. I don't have the same faith on this player as I have on EtH.

Genuinely do not disagree with a single thing there, except for the Bruno bit (although Antony has been useful but he's never been and probably never will be £85m worth of a RW, same as Sancho).

I cannot recall one big game in the PL where Bruno's played well for us, meaning he's stood out and just run the show? There genuinely isn't one (or maybe I'm misremembering).

He always gets found out, especially against City and Liverpool. As a United captain, you need to turn up against these lot or else you're just a small-time bully (hence the Lukaku comparison).

 

[TheNewEra]

I still don't think Bruno is elite in terms of the top, he wastes possession too much.

United cannot, and will not dominate possession with Bruno.

When you are under pressure in games he isn't the one that will take the sting out of a game, he adds pressure because he trys risky passes and doesn't have game management in his toolbelt.