Club Sale | It’s done!

[DownRiver]

If the bids are so close in valuation, I do not understand why the Glazers would wait another few years to get the same amount of money from Jim, as they would do from the Qatari bid?

Also, even if Jim's bid is higher by a couple hundred million at most, the Glazers can invest the money now from the Qatari bid and get a better return in 5 years due to inflationary reasons.

 

[Raoul]

One may be more respected by Jassim that the other

Raine are the official organization working the process though. Khelaifi, unless he is in some way a part of the bid, would just be an unnecessary middle man (and also an obvious Qatari state actor).

 

[Cassidy]

The problem with tweets is even the best of journalists don't type it as clearly.
I wouldn't read too much into it though - the consistency among the reports appears to be that both parties are in the running, both parties are working as though they will wrap up the deal and the announcement of which party it is will come this week.

Indeed so no preferred bidder just a winning deal. By the way this was reported previously about a month ago

 

[VP89]

Why wouldn’t that price not be included in his price offer now? Surely it’s a value on the shares and club as a whole? It’s not something to be negotiated after the fact, that’s for sure.

Who are you talking about, Sheikh Jassim or Ratcliff?

 

[Sid234]

The timing of the Nasser al-Khelaifi leak is very interesting, especially since it's over a month old news - I can't help but think it's leaked from SJR's group to bring up agaib the questions on separation between Jassim and the Qatari state.

Maybe pressure Glazers on the likelihood that the deal with Jassim could fall apart becuase of state ownership concerns.

 

[Cassidy]

Raine are the official organization working the process though. Khelaifi, unless he is in some way a part of the bid, would just be an unnecessary middle man (and also an obvious Qatari state actor).

Raine being official organisation has not bearing on them having influence over the bids. Jassim has already sort the counsel of Khelaifi over the valuation (price asked by Glazers)

Glazers wanting to extract more (it would make sense to ask Khelaifi to have a word) that type of thing happens in these types of deals all the time (one business person asking another who has the ear of an interested party to share an opinion).
Yes its an unsessaery middle man but I don’t put it past the Glazers to try it. Khelaifi already confirmed it anyway and said he refused to get involved.

 

[George The Best]

How does it?

Jacobs is saying neither party will be given exclusivity. Whereas other reports state that a preferred bidder will be selected soon.

 

[cyberman]

Who are you talking about, Sheikh Jassim or Ratcliff?

Sir Jim. If the offers are similar, as reported, then surely the fixed amount to buy out the rest of the Glazer shares are included in his current offer? Why would they not be?

 

[Cassidy]

Sir Jim. If the offers are similar, as reported, then surely the fixed amount to buy out the rest of the Glazer shares are included in his current offer? Why would they not be?

Of course it is

 

[VP89]

Sir Jim. If the offers are similar, as reported, then surely the fixed amount to buy out the rest of the Glazer shares are included in his current offer? Why would they not be?

Yes there would be, via call options with an expiry in 2 or 3 years time. But I'm saying those call options may be to buy the remaining shares at a premium that's better value than what SJ is offering.

 

[Tarrou]

I'm sure there are plenty of people that have discussions over and over again with people. It seems only some of my posts catch your eye, do keep up..

that doesn't even make sense

but people tend to notice when people say the exact same thing like 20 times

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Ben Jacobs has been waffling his way through this whole ordeal making a pretty penny whilst knowing sweet feck all. Impressive really.

Consistently a journalist breaks some news and without fail he’s there tailgating it with some side information that kind of , kind of doesn’t make sense it’s utterly pathetic but everyone absolutely laps it up.

Multiple times he’s contradicted himself and spoken himself into knots.

I really wouldn’t trust anything he says.

 

[Water Melon]

Buddy of mine thinks this was leaked by Jim since it serves no advantageous purpose to Qatar or Glazers. He says it’s either his way out by saying the Glazers never had any intention to sell to Jim (as the narrative told us about Qatar last week) or it’s a Hail Mary by Jim to put the pressure on United by bringing up the PSG and state link and all the negative reaction that gets.
Funny thing is we will never know.

Could be the case, but nobody cares if its the latter. We have City, Newcastle just in PL.

Raine being official organisation has not bearing on them having influence over the bids. Jassim has already sort the counsel of Khelaifi over the valuation (price asked by Glazers)

Glazers wanting to extract more (it would make sense to ask Khelaifi to have a word) that type of thing happens in these types of deals all the time (one business person asking another who has the ear of an interested party to share an opinion).
Yes its an unsessaery middle man but I don’t put it past the Glazers to try it. Khelaifi already confirmed it anyway and said he refused to get involved.

Exactly what would anyone even with a tiny amount of sanity say. If I was to bet, I'd pick SJ.

 

[elmo]

If the bids are so close in valuation, I do not understand why the Glazers would wait another few years to get the same amount of money from Jim, as they would do from the Qatari bid?

Also, even if Jim's bid is higher by a couple hundred million at most, the Glazers can invest the money now from the Qatari bid and get a better return in 5 years due to inflationary reasons.

Probably
1) They get to continue to leech off the club

And

2) They’re gambling that the share prices will increase in the future so Radcliffe has to pay them more for their remaining shares

 

[Cassidy]

Ben Jacobs has been waffling his way through this whole ordeal making a pretty penny whilst knowing sweet feck all. Impressive really.

Consistently a journalist breaks some news and without fail he’s there tailgating it with some side information that kind of , kind of doesn’t make sense it’s utterly pathetic but everyone absolutely laps it up.

Multiple times he’s contradicted himself and spoken himself into knots.

I really wouldn’t trust anything he says.

Everyone reporting on this has been contradicting themselves. Tends to happen when things change

 

[Cassidy]

Probably
1) They get to continue to leech off the club

And

2) They’re gambling that the share prices will increase in the future so Radcliffe has to pay them more for their remaining shares

Call options mean the future price is decided now. So point 2 is moot, the delay in the payment is because SJR can’t afford to pay it all now and so it requires structuring (and so will include a premium).

This is how he was able to raise his bid and get in the lead about a month back after being behind

 

[George The Best]

Yes there would be, via call options with an expiry in 2 or 3 years time. But I'm saying those call options may be to buy the remaining shares at a premium that's better value than what SJ is offering.

That would be a hell of a risk.

 

[DownRiver]

I am worried about the Qatari bid, it took them this long to get a similar valuation to Jim's bid. Jim can easily increase his bid, as he has more free cash in hand due to getting only 60% of the club.

 

[Cassidy]

Jim can easily increase his bid, as he has more free cash in hand due to getting only 60% of the club.

I think you’ll likely find thats not true. It was a move of ingenuity to increase his bid when he was behind. There is no free cash, hes just offering the same cash for less shares (thus increasing overall valuation). He won’t be able to increase his bid without ceding more control (shares)

 

[Brownie85]

I am worried about the Qatari bid, it took them this long to get a similar valuation to Jim's bid. Jim can easily increase his bid, as he has more free cash in hand due to getting only 60% of the club.

But then SJR has the issues of the Class A shareholders launching a lawsuit apparently, which will make his bid a lot harder to get through.

Not sure how it'll work or what the issues are but it was tweeted a while ago

 

[cyberman]

Yes there would be, via call options with an expiry in 2 or 3 years time. But I'm saying those call options may be to buy the remaining shares at a premium that's better value than what SJ is offering.

But what I’m saying is that premium would be included in Jim offer now. It’s literally what he values the club at.
If these reports are true, and it’s a similar number that Qatar have now offered, then where’s the advantage in waiting 2 to 3 years? Paying a premium won’t be some fantastical number on top of Jims current bid, it will have been factored into the current number that’s submitted.

 

[Coops73]

He'll be back any moment with his pack of Richmond

Touch! They’re my favourite sausages

 

[pocco]

Still thinks it's confusion rather than an actual bid as it doesn't make much sense from either Ratcliffes perspective or the two Glazers clingons

Why wouldn't it make sense? I can't remember what shares each Glazer holds so can't do the maths on what it would mean in terms of their retained shares.

 

[Water Melon]

I am worried about the Qatari bid, it took them this long to get a similar valuation to Jim's bid. Jim can easily increase his bid, as he has more free cash in hand due to getting only 60% of the club.

Probably Qataris know something that we do not, or maybe they have a certain budget that they can not/do not want to exceed. However, if it is a state bid, Ineos stand no chance.

 

[VanHaal'sRedArmy]

Why would they use Khelaifi for that when Raine could inform him ?

Because Raine are part owned by Abu Dhabi and preferably want SJR at the helm.

 

[VP89]

That would be a hell of a risk.

Is it though?

But what I’m saying is that premium would be included in Jim offer now. It’s literally what he values the club at.
If these reports are true, and it’s a similar number that Qatar have now offered, then where’s the advantage in waiting 2 to 3 years? Paying a premium won’t be some fantastical number on top of Jims current bid, it will have been factored into the current number that’s submitted.

No, the offer for the majority is based on a club value that is similar to what Jassim is offering. So if Jim is offering to buy 51% right now he's only giving them £2.5-£2.7bn. Jassim is giving close to £5.5bn and that's all up front. But the valuations of the club are the very similar from both bidders.

I'm saying Jim's decision to purchase remaining shares of the club 2-3 years down the line can be based off different economic valuations.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

When are these cnuts going to sell the club? Absolute piss take.

 

[pocco]

You don’t have a point, or even a clue, it seems.

Jassim’s bids have never claimed to be ‘just him’ - they’re a group of businessmen, hence 92 Foundation, it obviously isn’t 1 person.

And his individual, personal wealth isn’t known in Western media, so speculating on it is idiotic.

If they’re bidding 6 billion, rather than say, using another company to leverage it with yet more debt… it’s fairly safe to say the 92 Foundation can afford it.

Well done on missing the point of my argument. You've basically just agreed with me. Outstanding. Don't come saying I don't have a clue when you can't even grasp something so basic.

 

[Silverman]

A part of would prefer Ratcliffe unless Jassim is totally a private investor.

 

[George The Best]

But then SJR has the issues of the Class A shareholders launching a lawsuit apparently, which will make his bid a lot harder to get through.

Not sure how it'll work or what the issues are but it was tweeted a while ago

This is a legitimate concern. If the class A shareholders feel they are being shafted by the Ineos deal, as SJR is saying he won’t buy them, then they could well bring a court case. SJ has committed to buying the class A shares and will have to offer a premium to get them, so the listed shares are only really attractive if SJ wins.

 

[Member 101269]

Rumour has it a few of the Glazers owe half a billion on something unrelated to United which needs to be serviced this year

Also as you have pointed out especially in this current financial climate. They are not in a position to further borrow against the club to fund its activities

This is really interesting; my understanding is there is no CGT in the cayman island. I wonder if CGT is payable if the debt is repaid elsewhere or if there are any other tax implications.

 

[Cassidy]

When are these cnuts going to sell the club? Absolute piss take.

Thankfully we are at the final stages

 

[pocco]

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Basically, the Glazers still want more money.

 

[cyberman]

Is it though?

No, the offer for the majority is based on a club value that is similar to what Jassim is offering. So if Jim is offering to buy 51% right now he's only giving them £2.5-£2.7bn. Jassim is giving close to £5.5bn and that's all up front. But the valuations of the club are the very similar from both bidders.

I'm saying Jim's decision to purchase remaining shares of the club 2-3 years down the line can be based off different economic valuations.

Wouldn’t these different economic valuations already be factored into his 51 percent bid as we stand? Or else how are they evaluating the club?
Part of the presentation both parties received at Carrington was literally focused on future growth opportunities of the club. The sole reason for 6b was down to the potential of United if grown correctly.

 

[Coops73]

Sorry if this has been asked before but if either SJR or SJ are given the go ahead by the cnuts to buy the club does anybody know how long the premier leagues fit and proper test takes? Or is it a case of how long is piece of string? I.e depends on individual cases.

 

[VP89]

Wouldn’t these different economic valuations already be factored into his 51 percent bid as we stand? Or else how are they evaluating the club?
Part of the presentation both parties received at Carrington was literally focused on future growth opportunities of the club.

No, though I could be wrong. The offer made by SJR is 51% (at least the offer that is more tempting to the Glazers, I think he had another iteration on the table too).
That's where the reports of the bid being of similar value comes into it.

The call options are rights to buy at x price later down the line, but they arent an obligation. If Sir Jim wants he can pass on that when the time comes and keep his 51%.

At least this is how I would understand it.

 

[Tender Teacher]

It does seem the Glazers have been twerking for Qatar all along. They:

-Originally reached out to Qatar at the very beginning of the process last year to solicit their bid
-Reached out to Nasser Al-Khelaifi last month to help increase Sheikh Jassim's bid
-Suddenly discovered an urgency to make a final decision the moment Sheikh Jassim set them a deadline

 

[#07]

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Given how messy and disordered the Glazers' running off United has been, this feels very much to type.

 

[dacore]

The valuation is similar but Jazz will buy all the A-shares on top that is worth millions going straight down into the Glazers pockets. With the Jazz bid the Glazers will get all the cash straight away. Then they can invest that money in other things and let them grow for 3 years. If they are not total incompetent that could give a lot more cash than staying around for another 3 years hoping the value of the club will sky rocket. As long as they are part of the club that will not happen. Also SJR will not invest for nothing. There more he invest, the more he may have to pay Joel and Avram in the end if the share price isn't fixed before hand. And if it is fixed, then Joel and Avram can calculate now what they would get after those years. I get it if they wanted to stay for another 20 years. But ffs it´s 3 years. Take Jazz money and get the feck out. Invest in vegan food or ponys.

 

[Cassidy]

Given how messy and disordered the Glazers' running off United has been, this feels very much to type.

This would indicate something carefully planned and not messy