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- Sep 21, 2018
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- 259
Has ever worked a midfield with no CM? Don't think so...
When I dared suggesting in the Mount transfer thread that this midfield will be bad “off the ball”, I was quoted about 100 times in the space of a few minutes, basically called an idiot.
But anyway, Bruno, Casemiro, Rashford and I’d say most of our players aren’t suited for the football ETH wants us to play. We’re a counter attacking team that should just sit back and lump it forward. We should never ever try outplaying good teams.
They can't because none of them is a possession player so if you can't keep the ball you are always vulnerable to the counter. It gets worse when you have a sluggish Casemiro and maybe Ten Hag doesn't know it but Luke Shaw isn't the smartest bloke around so all these instructions about inverting and underlapping are a bit too much for him. We will get slaughtered by better teams if ETH doesn't wisen up quickly.Is the problem with the execution the individuals though? Can that three ever execute it properly?
I think the intended set-up is fine(having 2 #8s in front a #6), but I don't like Casemiro as the deepest midfielder during build-up phases and I actually think he's the biggest problem in this set-up.
I'm surprised Ten Hag thinks he's fine for the role.
A key piece of context here (which I don't have the answer to) is why this shift towards that particular set-up is suddenly taking place?
It's clearly not a coincidence that all these managers have decided to move towards these double AM systems at the same time, they're obviously responding to tactical shifts in the game, but without knowing how costly it would/wouldn't be for us not to follow suit it's hard to judge the wisdom of wanting to move us in that direction too.
Because in isolation this isn't what I would have thought the obvious set-up for our team in particular would be, but clearly something is prompting managers to think this is the solution du jour.
A midfield of enzo Caicedo & Lavia would destroy this lot. Hopefully we get our shit together somehow.
That’s just the problem. When mount signed I expected either a different style of football or mount to play deeper. The thing about Mason Mount is he’s clearly an adaptable footballer. Many great managers have altered players and put them in different roles to great success so I genuinely thought Ten Hag signed him with this thought process in mind. However the Mount were seeing is the Mount from before. He’s not doing anything to alter his game and so it’s making our set up look like a complete mess.If you are both right and I am wrong and Ten Hag really thinks a midfield of Casemiro sitting deep with Mount and Fernandes playing their usual #8/#10 roles is the way we should play this season, then hopefully tonight has given him pause for thought regarding the wisdom of that decision. That midfield setup has us at a massive disadvantage in any competitive game (outside perhaps of home matches against relegation fodder or lower league opponents in the cups).
They can't because none of them is a possession player so if you can't keep the ball you are always vulnerable to the counter. It gets worse when you have a sluggish Casemiro and maybe Ten Hag doesn't know it but Luke Shaw isn't the smartest bloke around so all these instructions about inverting and underlapping are a bit too much for him. We will get slaughtered by better teams if ETH doesn't wisen up quickly.
Yeah I'm starting to think this is the case. We just dont have players that are obsessed with the ball and can control any sort of rythm. And we dont even try to buy any of those players.When I dared suggesting in the Mount transfer thread that this midfield will be bad “off the ball”, I was quoted about 100 times in the space of a few minutes, basically called an idiot.
But anyway, Bruno, Casemiro, Rashford and I’d say most of our players aren’t suited for the football ETH wants us to play. We’re a counter attacking team that should just sit back and lump it forward. We should never ever try outplaying good teams.
Happened to a lot of people. Being excellent at pressing high or being a good defensive attacker does not mean you are good defensively. Positioning is as important as anything. Perhaps its a tactical problem for ETH to solve but this midfield will struggle on the transition..and it will happen a lot as they won't control the game as well as we'd like.When I dared suggesting in the Mount transfer thread that this midfield will be bad “off the ball”, I was quoted about 100 times in the space of a few minutes, basically called an idiot.
But anyway, Bruno, Casemiro, Rashford and I’d say most of our players aren’t suited for the football ETH wants us to play. We’re a counter attacking team that should just sit back and lump it forward. We should never ever try outplaying good teams.
Our midfield
This is on the manager. I dont believe that these players are dumb enough to not even offer themselves as a passing option.I don’t understand how this happens after an entire pre-season working together. I hate seeing Bruno this high up the pitch.
Because they are lacking in physicality. Bruno, Antony, Rashford, Garnacho, Mount can run but they are easily pushed of the ball. Casemiro is strong but can't run. We might be the weakest team physically in the league.This isn’t really specific to today’s match, nor is it really specific to this midfield, but I’m not sure where else to put this question.
Why does our midfield and attack always look so lacking in physicality compared to other teams? A good example today is Cunha who seemed able to just run through multiple players at will. Even in games where we’ve won, there always seem to be an opposition player or two who are able to do this, but no one in our team ever seems to be able to. You don’t see anyone with that running power or physical presence. And this has seemed to be the case for the last few managers.
Is this a setup issue or a personnel issue?
I think it's a personnel issue. We have very few physical players that can ball carry through the midfield. The only midfielder that can do it is McTominay. It's probably his best asset, but his all around game is nowhere near good enough. I also think Shaw and AWB are quite physical, and can ball carry well. Nobody else in the squad does it/is capable of it.This isn’t really specific to today’s match, nor is it really specific to this midfield, but I’m not sure where else to put this question.
Why does our midfield and attack always look so lacking in physicality compared to other teams? A good example today is Cunha who seemed able to just run through multiple players at will. Even in games where we’ve won, there always seem to be an opposition player or two who are able to do this, but no one in our team ever seems to be able to. You don’t see anyone with that running power or physical presence. And this has seemed to be the case for the last few managers.
Is this a setup issue or a personnel issue?
I don't think he's good enough, might be worth a shot though if we get desperate.I’d like to have seen us hijack Roma’s bid to get Paredes from PSG. He’d offer us something different in midfield being more like a Carrick type who sets the tempo and passes exceptionally well… and he’s going for less money than we got for Fred. Sadly, it’ll never happen.
But it helps no one when you have pissed £60m down the drain buying a player for that tactic with little to no research on how it would work in a competitive game. What scares me is that this is a potential bottom three team this season, what if our season opener was Liverpool and we came in with such a weak midfield?Agree with you. It doesn't work as a three on or off the ball. Amazing the people at the club thought it would.
Abandoning it in the first game says it all.
Drives me nuts stuff like this. Building a cohesive team doesn't need to be this complicated.
You saw it immediately in the first 10 minutes. Onana was on the ball. Wolves went man-to-man and not a soul moved to the find the ball to begin progressing it. It went to the centre backs and they couldn’t find anyone else.This is on the manager. I dont believe that these players are dumb enough to not even offer themselves as a passing option.
I think it's a personnel issue. We have very few physical players that can ball carry through the midfield. The only midfielder that can do it is McTominay. It's probably his best asset, but his all around game is nowhere near good enough. I also think Shaw and AWB are quite physical, and can ball carry well. Nobody else in the squad does it/is capable of it.
Our midfield lacks steel. Even though Mount is better than Eriksen defensively, he's still not the most physical player. I expect us to see players running straight through our midfield quite regularly.
Because they are lacking in physicality. Bruno, Antony, Rashford, Garnacho, Mount can run but they are easily pushed of the ball. Casemiro is strong but can't run. We might be the weakest team physically in the league.
It was one thing (maybe the only thing) Rangnick pointed out that he was right on.
Bruno pretty consistently plays like this. It must be tactical. He plays deeper in midfield for Portugal. There are very few games I remember him playing deeper in midfielder for us. When he has, he's usually played extremely well.I don’t understand how this happens after an entire pre-season working together. I hate seeing Bruno this high up the pitch.
Its clear ten hag doesnt rate fernandes and is biding his time before he removes him from the starting 11.
Yep. He’s a midfielder for me and not a 10. At his best receiving the ball deeper with the game in front of him and options to pass to.Bruno pretty consistently plays like this. It must be tactical. He plays deeper in midfield for Portugal. There are very few games I remember him playing deeper in midfielder for us. When he has, he's usually played extremely well.
It won’t work. He cannot defend to save his life. We need an amrabat in there beside the fading Casemiro. Someone who canI'd love to see Mount as the 10. Play Bruno deeper where he has a bit more time to think and potentially make more measured passing.
I really do like seeing him play deeper in midfield. He helps us to progress with his long range passing.Yep. He’s a midfielder for me and not a 10. At his best receiving the ball deeper with the game in front of him and options to pass to.
Have left massive holes in the middle which will need addressing straight away though.
Very true. The profile of our midfielders makes zero sense for a team that wants to be possession based.I'd argue that none of Casemiro, Mount or Bruno are suitable for that system.
Casemiro needs a player in midfield next to him and Mount/Bruno each need two midfielders behind them.