Saudi Arabia FA interested in joining UEFA Champions League (Bloomberg)

[Zlatattack]

Also just because a certain Apartheid state is allowed to play in Europe, doesn't mean the Saudi's should too.

 

[Samid]

Kazakhstani and Israeli teams can qualify for the CL and neither Kazakhstan nor Israel are in Europe. Most of Turkey and Russia aren't in Europe either. Fenerbahce, a seasoned CL team, are an Asian team.

What's a non elitist/gatekeeping argument against this?

Kazakhstan has territory in Europe so their case is legit.

Israel, Cyprus and Armenia however are not European countries.

 

[Irrational.]

And? Apartheid country shouldn't play anywhere and rightly so.

Without politicising this thread, it’s amazing how people are vehemently against the involvement of Qatar, UAE and Saudi stating oil money, human rights abuses, yet turn a blind eye to the child murdering atrocities committed by Israel.

Neither should be allowed.

 

[Red the Bear]

Kazakhstani and Israeli teams can qualify for the CL and neither Kazakhstan nor Israel are in Europe. Most of Turkey and Russia aren't in Europe either. Fenerbahce, a seasoned CL team, are an Asian team.

What's a non elitist/gatekeeping argument against this?

Russia's main territory with most of it's population is in Europe, same with turkey and Istanbul, the latter has flirted with the idea of europeanisim for quite a long time as well while Russia has been unequivocally a part of european hierarchy for hundreds of years.

Neither applies to Saudi Arabia.

Neither apply

 

[2cents]

Russia's main territory with most of it's population is in Europe, same with turkey and Istanbul, the latter has flirted with the idea of europeanisim for quite a long time as well while Russia has been unequivocally a part of european hierarchy for hundreds of years.

Neither applies to Saudi Arabia.

Neither apply

About 3-4% of Turkey is geographically Europe, with around 15% of the population.

 

[Sarni]

Kazakhstani and Israeli teams can qualify for the CL and neither Kazakhstan nor Israel are in Europe. Most of Turkey and Russia aren't in Europe either. Fenerbahce, a seasoned CL team, are an Asian team.

What's a non elitist/gatekeeping argument against this?

Kazakhstan are the only one of these that have ever been part of a different organization (AFC) and that was only for a brier period of just over 10 years. Saudi Arabia has always been part of AFC.

 

[Red the Bear]

About 3-4% of Turkey is geographically Europe, with around 15% of the population.

Pretty significant I'd say, and again they've always been intertwined in European affairs since their empire and even more so when attaturk started his reforms.
(Plus historically going way back Anatolia has always been massively influenced by the Greek culture and basically was a Greek settlement before the Turkish invasion.

 

[Uniquim]

Kazakhstan has territory in Europe so their case is legit.

Israel, Cyprus and Armenia however are not European countries.

Cyprus is a member of the EU.

Israel is an associated state of the EU, and a member of several European transnational federations and frameworks, in addition to European sports championships.

Armenia is part of CEPA, have a legal framework for their EU relations, Euronest, Council of Europe++++ and EU have said they may be able to join the EU at some point.

So there are cases to be made for them.
They're also all part of UEFA, meaning their teams and national teams participate in European competitions.

If they're even going to contemplate Saudi teams playing in the UEFA CL, their FAs must at the very least join UEFA first, and leave the AFC.
Unless they're going to do a 'guest spot' type of thing like Copa América.

 

[Someone]

It would be interesting to see whether European clubs actually oppose this.

You'd think that they would - not on the genuinely justifiable grounds of Saudi Arabia not actually being in Europe, but simply due to the usual fear of increased competition.

Saudi Arabian clubs entering the Champions League would likely however force Saudi Arabia to operate under UEFA's FFP rules, which should curb Saudi Arabia's ability to outspend European clubs in the transfer market.

There's no real benefit for European clubs to allow this. It makes the Saudi league more appealing, and it won't necessarily mean more money for anyone.

People mentioning Israel playing in europe, that was for a political reason, and for the large part their inclusion had no impact on the game whatsoever. The inclusion of the Saudi league gives them a huge advantage and European clubs would be batshit crazy to allow that to happen.

 

[BootsyCollins]

I dont get the "country is in/not in Europe" argument.

CL is arranged by UEFA, not Europe. Countries that is a member of UEFA can qualify for their tournaments. Those who are not, can not.

 

[90 + 5min]

I did try to explain this before. UEFA will not make a unilateral decision. The Saudi request will most likely be raised at the next ECA meeting (European Club Assoication), where all the major clubs are represented by their Club Executive.

The CEOs or their equivalents at Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Utd, Liverpool, Milan etc will have their say on this matter.

Seeing as the game has already sold its soul to the highest bidder, i suspect that Saudi league will get a "guest invite" for a season say 2025 to test the water.

I think the big clubs and their parasite owners will go for it, as its more money, more revenue and higher dividends / add value to the club.

They can’t just be guests. They can be invited but there is lot of work before they can join as guest or permanent.
The first thing is that they can’t be members of Asian confederation. You can’t be member of two confederation. This must be accepted by FIFA. There are few more things that must be put in place. Everything can be read in UEFA documents about membership.

I think also that they (ECA) can’t make any decisions. It is for UEFA executive committee or congress to take those decisions. ECA can disscuss and are big players but they can’t invite by their own.

2025 is way to early to pass all those roadblocks that is there. If they don’t do some magic.


On another note, to people talking about Israel and UEFA and why its association is in European confederation. Open history books. Then, open football/sport history books.

 

[Tarrou]

I dont get the "country is in/not in Europe" argument.

CL is arranged by UEFA, not Europe. Countries that is a member of UEFA can qualify for their tournaments. Those who are not, can not.

the ‘e’ in UEFA stands for European, it’s not that hard to understand

 

[BootsyCollins]

the ‘e’ in UEFA stands for European, it’s not that hard to understand

I am guessing that everybody who writes here knows that, but thank you for the condescending explanation.
I am saying that who plays in a UEFA competition is not decided by the geographical borders of Europe, but by who is a member of UEFA.

 

[BluesJr]

Super league was the right play. People just scared of change.

 

[Red the Bear]

Super league was the right play. People just scared of change.

The whole backlash and the rants that the likes of Neville spewed looks dafter with every passing day.

 

[dinostar77]

They can’t just be guests. They can be invited but there is lot of work before they can join as guest or permanent.
The first thing is that they can’t be members of Asian confederation. You can’t be member of two confederation. This must be accepted by FIFA. There are few more things that must be put in place. Everything can be read in UEFA documents about membership.

I think also that they (ECA) can’t make any decisions. It is for UEFA executive committee or congress to take those decisions. ECA can disscuss and are big players but they can’t invite by their own.

2025 is way to early to pass all those roadblocks that is there. If they don’t do some magic.


On another note, to people talking about Israel and UEFA and why its association is in European confederation. Open history books. Then, open football/sport history books.

They can make their own recommendations which UEFA will pay attention to.

I think FIFA would support this idea of a "guest" team. They have long envied the cash cow that its the CL and want a slice of the pie. FIFA get a slice of the CL money and saudi get their invite approved. Maybe oversimplfying things but you get the jist.

FIFA have long wanted the World Club Cup to become a serious tournament to rival CL. But thats never going to happen as football vcub wealth is centered in europe and we have the CL. So next best thing for FIFA is to get a zlice of CL pie. Saudi entry might be their best way to trojan horse their way in.

 

[Red Star One]

The whole backlash and the rants that the likes of Neville spewed looks dafter every passing day.

correct.

 

[Ayoba]

Ofcour$e the $audi'$ will enter the champion'$ league.

 

[JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo]

Ceferin on Saudi joining UEFA

"They drove a dump truck full of money up to my house. I'm not made of stone!"

 

[Alex99]

They can make their own recommendations which UEFA will pay attention to.

I think FIFA would support this idea of a "guest" team. They have long envied the cash cow that its the CL and want a slice of the pie. FIFA get a slice of the CL money and saudi get their invite approved. Maybe oversimplfying things but you get the jist.

FIFA have long wanted the World Club Cup to become a serious tournament to rival CL. But thats never going to happen as football vcub wealth is centered in europe and we have the CL. So next best thing for FIFA is to get a zlice of CL pie. Saudi entry might be their best way to trojan horse their way in.

There's an expanded 32 team Club World Cup format starting in 2025 that may well generate the sort of interest Fifa are after, especially as it'll have 12 European teams in it.

 

[tomaldinho1]

The whole backlash and the rants that the likes of Neville spewed looks dafter with every passing day.

Prepare for him to make out he's reflected and change his mind, then he'll present a programme going to Saudi and showing the 'reality' of living there where he'll meet a load of these famous footballers and make out like it's Dubai.

 

[mshnsh]

Without politicising this thread, it’s amazing how people are vehemently against the involvement of Qatar, UAE and Saudi stating oil money, human rights abuses, yet turn a blind eye to the child murdering atrocities committed by Israel.

Neither should be allowed.

Exactly. 100% correct. Say it in public, and you'll be called anti-Semitic when you actually haven't ctiticed any race per say.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Super league was the right play. People just scared of change.

It turns out that UEFA didn't like the idea of a Super League because they were planning their own one all along.

Fifty years from now United will be travelling by shuttle to play Elon Musk's Mars FC...

 

[Buckie]

It's also quite funny that people have no problem with an apartheid, ethnic cleansing state participating in their favorite European tournaments, but will stop watching if an oil-rich Arab country joins.

Yes, they are just a simple Arab state who happen to be oil rich. No atrocities or human rights abuses with them. They love journalists there too.

 

[Bole Top]

Without politicising this thread, it’s amazing how people are vehemently against the involvement of Qatar, UAE and Saudi stating oil money, human rights abuses, yet turn a blind eye to the child murdering atrocities committed by Israel.

Neither should be allowed.

one of our domestic clubs was supposed to play the winner of PAOK and Beitar Jerusalem recently and reports on Beitar were just... jikez. it's incredible how casual everyone is about such clubs playing in UEFA competition.

 

[Tarrou]

The whole backlash and the rants that the likes of Neville spewed looks dafter with every passing day.

I think the backlash was spot on. The proposal was a league with no promotion or relegation, so it cut-off the majority of English clubs from that opportunity. I mean why would any fan want that?

 

[Dazzmondo]

It's also quite funny that people have no problem with an apartheid, ethnic cleansing state participating in their favorite European tournaments, but will stop watching if an oil-rich Arab country joins.

Bang on. Whatever about the organisational argument with UEFA, the moral argument with some of the countries currently in UEFA is laughable.

 

[heraklion]

Without politicising this thread, it’s amazing how people are vehemently against the involvement of Qatar, UAE and Saudi stating oil money, human rights abuses, yet turn a blind eye to the child murdering atrocities committed by Israel.

Neither should be allowed.

Do you think the clubs of nations involved in Iraqi war for never found mass destruction weapons as well as wars in Syria, Libya etc. should receive a sanction too? What makes these acceptable vs what Israel has been doing?

People do not want Saudi because of their toxic influence with oil money on world football not for political reasons otherwise they have their share of atrocities in and outside their country like Yemen.. Israeli teams are in Euro competitions simply because they do not have a nearby outlet to compete due to being boycotted..

 

[Meep]

This will be the day I stop watching.

 

[tomaldinho1]

It's also quite funny that people have no problem with an apartheid, ethnic cleansing state participating in their favorite European tournaments, but will stop watching if an oil-rich Arab country joins.

I think if you allowed the fans to vote, Israel would not be in UEFA. Same way if fans were actually consulted, City would not be owned by the UAE, Newcastle would not be owned by Saudi and United would not be sold to Qatar. Fans have no say however.

Football is crying out for a new competition where the sole aim is making the league as even as possible - imagine how much more exciting it would be (and how much better you could actually judge a manager) if you could gear things towards longer term interest based on having the best competition. It's basically become F1 now, every season in most leagues you know who will win and the CL isn't really competitive anymore. Too much money in too few clubs.

 

[morisjee]

I have no doubts that Saudi Arabia will conquer club football in a very short time. Much faster than City, PSG, Chelsea, Leipzig etc. ever did. All of which took more or less a decade. The SPL is not subject to any rules and can spend as much as it deems necessary to quickly create a top league.
And you don't need that much for it. If each Saudi team is only allowed to have 8 foreigners, it needs 144 players for the 18-club league. Of which about 30 top-class ones have already been bagged. I assume that in this transfer window they will easily make 20 more. You get the rest in the next 2-3 transfer windows.

I think first of all the 4 state clubs will be provided with high-quality players before the rest is slowly taken care of. It can't be in the league's interest if only 4 clubs are partially equipped with world-class players and the rest are completely declining in terms of quality. However, many of the small clubs already have well-known players who have played in the top European leagues.

I see absolutely no reason why the Saudis won't succeed with this. I wonder why they didn't do this sooner. Even if nobody in Europe will follow the Saudi League, there is still a huge market in the Arab world. About the size of Europe. And that's just the Arabs! What about the remaining 1.5 billion Muslims in the world who identify with Saudi Arabia like no other country in the world. And then there is the rest of Africa and especially Asia, which will be directly affected by the AFC and AC and will see their teams play against the star teams from Saudi Arabia in the Asian club competitions. That's what people want to see there.

Of course, you will initially invest a lot and buy overpriced, and have to pay incredibly high salaries. But that will not always be the case. And they will always have the net/gross advantage over the Europeans. Once the Saudis have laid the foundation for this and the league has reached a more professional level and the buying of all stars, which will no longer be necessary for marketing purposes, they will go to the source in South America and Africa and look for talent there to go fishing. Especially the African, and especially the Muslim players will prefer the Middle East over Europe.

Just as 20-30 years ago it was considered impossible to successfully build clubs like Chelsea or later City, for example, today there are doubts that a league would work. If you want, this even works with an entire continent. Imagine, all of a sudden the other oil-rich Arabs (UAE, Qatar, etc..) start doing the same thing as the Saudis. Immediately you have 3-4 top-class leagues with many well-armed top clubs competing for the AFC. Maybe then the Japanese and South Korean billionaires will start buying traditional local clubs and upgrading them massively. As I said, 144 players is not much. And it's not like they only invest in the premier league. They also massively upgrade the lower leagues. The infrastructure required for this is being set up. They commit manpower with the necessary knowledge, build sports centers, academies and soon the 1st division teams will also get completely new and modern stadiums.

The Saudis are here to stay, and with maximum success.

 

[heraklion]

Football is crying out for a new competition where the sole aim is making the league as even as possible - imagine how much more exciting it would be (and how much better you could actually judge a manager) if you could gear things towards longer term interest based on having the best competition. It's basically become F1 now, every season in most leagues you know who will win and the CL isn't really competitive anymore. Too much money in too few clubs.

Exactly. I miss the days where teams like Steaua, Red Star etc. could win the CL with their great local talent.. If we could go back to 3-4 foreigner limit rule which is of course impossible, things will be much more fun..

 

[carvajal]

Uefa will end up inventing something to take the money and accept some format.
And the resigned fan will continue to watch football, or did anyone stop watching the World Cup because of Qatar's policies?
The ideal would be one super league per continent, several divisions in Europe, and a club world cup every two years.
I wouldn't mind if they participated in a global one but unfortunately it's very difficult because of the distances.

 

[Irrational.]

Do you think the clubs of nations involved in Iraqi war for never found mass destruction weapons as well as wars in Syria, Libya etc. should receive a sanction too? What makes these acceptable vs what Israel has been doing?

People do not want Saudi because of their toxic influence with oil money on world football not for political reasons otherwise they have their share of atrocities in and outside their country like Yemen.. Israeli teams are in Euro competitions simply because they do not have a nearby outlet to compete due to being boycotted..

That is not a problem for UEFA to sort out. There is a reason why they’ve been boycotted and they should take it up with the Asian Football Confederation.

You can’t have it both ways - the day UEFA opened the door to Israeli teams was the day they opened the door for other non- European clubs to join as well. You can’t be having double standards.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Exactly. I miss the days where teams like Steaua, Red Star etc. could win the CL with their great local talent.. If we could go back to 3-4 foreigner limit rule which is of course impossible, things will be much more fun..

More emphasis on academy would definitely help. I think it's about looking at what the PL has done wrong and improving that - I do also think as much as I dislike parts of US sports, a draft system is such a good way of spreading talent around a league. I guess in football's case you would need non club affiliated academies in the place of Universities in the US and then the lowest finishing teams would pick the best talents there. Put a wage cap in, obviously no state ownership (although they wouldn't be interested given the idea is you can't become dominant), put a limit on # of transfers per season and limit on spending. What would be super interesting is if each season managers rotated as well, let's see how good they actually are at coaching.

Sounds like a pipe dream and probably is but it would be amazing to watch and you'd hope you would see a wide range of league winners.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It's going to happen, isn't.

 

[Revan]

More emphasis on academy would definitely help. I think it's about looking at what the PL has done wrong and improving that - I do also think as much as I dislike parts of US sports, a draft system is such a good way of spreading talent around a league. I guess in football's case you would need non club affiliated academies in the place of Universities in the US and then the lowest finishing teams would pick the best talents there. Put a wage cap in, obviously no state ownership (although they wouldn't be interested given the idea is you can't become dominant), put a limit on # of transfers per season and limit on spending. What would be super interesting is if each season managers rotated as well, let's see how good they actually are at coaching.

Sounds like a pipe dream and probably is but it would be amazing to watch and you'd hope you would see a wide range of league winners.

How does a draft system works when you have 50 something first league in Europe, and a few thousands other leagues.

How does a team in Romania's third division get players from the draft?

It is not a pipe dream, it is not thinking more than 3 seconds about a system that works in completely different sports, where there is a single league without promotion and relegation.

Ironically, a draft system would work only if there is a European Superleague. And even then, how do you compensate the teams which developed the players? And do you ban the Superleague teams from having academies? (In the US, players go from colleges so non professional, or from outside the US and there is no compensation for the team/college which developed the player).

 

[heraklion]

That is not a problem for UEFA to sort out. There is a reason why they’ve been boycotted and they should take it up with the Asian Football Confederation.

Oh, ok, it's all fine to invade countries outside your region for BS reasons because they won't boycott these peaceful European nations anyway. And, even if they do, this boycott won't affect your teams. What would talking to AFC change when half the countries are not recognizing Israel?

You can’t have it both ways - the day UEFA opened the door to Israeli teams was the day they opened the door for other non- European clubs to join as well. You can’t be having double standards.

No, this is too simplistic. There's a reason why Israeli teams are competing in Europe. If that's the case, I have news for you, most Asian/African teams also would want to join but they do not have sufficient financials to make that happen unlike Saudi. Are you Ok with that? Or, should they pay as much as Saudi to join?

 

[sglowrider]

Exactly. I miss the days where teams like Steaua, Red Star etc. could win the CL with their great local talent.. If we could go back to 3-4 foreigner limit rule which is of course impossible, things will be much more fun..

Weren't they basically state sponsored clubs?

 

[tomaldinho1]

How does a draft system works when you have 50 something first league in Europe, and a few thousands other leagues.

How does a team in Romania's third division get players from the draft?

It is not a pipe dream, it is not thinking more than 3 seconds about a system that works in completely different sports, where there is a single league without promotion and relegation.

Ironically, a draft system would work only if there is a European Superleague. And even then, how do you compensate the teams which developed the players? And do you ban the Superleague teams from having academies? (In the US, players go from colleges so non professional, or from outside the US and there is no compensation for the team/college which developed the player).

This is quite a badly thought out reply, you could literally just have a local competition and have these rules.