Dr. Dwayne
Self proclaimed tagline king.
I am thoroughly ashamed.You are your weak woke "police". Pathetic and un-American.
I am thoroughly ashamed.You are your weak woke "police". Pathetic and un-American.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Don't blame them for quitting if you actually think about the practicalities
Eh?Don't blame them for quitting if you actually think about the practicalities
From the tweet the underlying story is that they are banning the use of prone restraints, chokes are already banned..Eh?
Please elaborate.....
They are children, in school.From the tweet the underlying story is that they are banning the use of prone restraints, chokes are already banned..
When you need to detain someone the police obviously have to use the appropriate amount of force for the risk, I think using what are called Graham factors.
Essentially prone restraint is one of the lowest uses of force for when there is a risk to officer safety, or risk of flight or resistance to use of cuffs for the purpose of applying the handcuffs.
By banning them it would be considered a risk to officers, from a safety perspective, a financial perspective both for their jobs and risk of litigation and criminally if it becomes excessive force, and thinking about it increase the likelihood of using more severe force against violent arrestees. I wouldn't want to work in those conditions. To restrain a person who is actively resisting on your own without their face being on the ground at some point seems like more trouble than I'd be willing to put up with for a job.
I say this as someone who watches a ton of police excessive force videos and physically hates aggressive over the top policing. Its just a logical conclusion to what was within the story.
That's why there's the objectively reasonable standard.They are children, in school.
You'd think it would be easier to ban guns than deal with the problems they cause but here we are.It still blows my mind there's a need for police in schools in the first place.
It's quite bizarre. Is there really a need?It still blows my mind there's a need for police in schools in the first place.
That's exactly why I asked him to elaborate.They are children, in school.
That's why there's the objectively reasonable standard.
Not all children are prepubescent, and weapons exist. Plus prone restraint is again, minimal use of force in a lot of scenarios. However I'm sure it's a feeling for you so no changing your opinion, so crack on, the police just want to choke babies
The trend in legislation, and handbooks should be to use the least restrictive methods, de-escalation should always be the first option, especially with children but it's just unreasonable to expect people with a duty of care to both the student themselves and other students, as well as to their own safety, to not have some level of face down restraint available where justified against violent and physically resistant students where it's otherwise physically required due to the factors specific to that use of restraint just because it looks barbaric and can cause some psychological harm to the student when they could be causing imminent harm to others.That's exactly why I asked him to elaborate.
Cheers for the lengthy reply, I kind of guessed that your reply would be something like it was. Although I think the Police were more just looking for any reason to not be at the schools in the first place and this gave them the out they were looking for.
Oh, and I definitely think a fair few of them just really want to choke kids.
Right, minimal use of force to hold a child face down with a 200+ lb adult's knee on their back.That's why there's the objectively reasonable standard.
Not all children are prepubescent, and weapons exist. Plus prone restraint is again, minimal use of force in a lot of scenarios. However I'm sure it's a feeling for you so no changing your opinion, so crack on, the police just want to choke babies
You mean the black ones, right?Not all children are prepubescent
Yes and no. It depends on the school I guess. Ideally in this day and age you want a school resource/liaison officer for emergencies, particularly active shooters. There needs to be a line drawn though, so you don’t have these officers being armed hall monitors. Some school districts, like LA unified, have their own police dept. A lot of these schools have big gang and drug problems.It's quite bizarre. Is there really a need?
If people paid attention then they'd see the common trend is empathy for people having to deal with shit on the ground, not making decisions based on the need to impose their authority, but because it's necessary to avoid harm to themselves or othersI think it's a jackboot that broke the camel's back kind of thing.
I get what you are doing, Drainy.If people paid attention then they'd see the common trend is empathy for people having to deal with shit on the ground, not making decisions based on the need to impose their authority, but because it's necessary to avoid harm to themselves or others
If people are violent for other reasons I'm literally as opposed to that as anyone
That said, I do need to stop giving people attitude in responses when I'm being defensive. Or just not post on this type of thing anymore.
Don't put words in my mouth, Drainy, you're a far better debater than that.People should avoid violence but should have the option to restrain using appropriate force if it's the minimally invasive option to avoid more violence and it can't be avoided = I love violence
If a kid is shot in the face for playing loud music in a 7-Eleven parking lot at 11pm certain posters on this forum will defend such actions because city ordinance requires all loud music to cease at 10pm.Don't put words in my mouth, Drainy, you're a far better debater than that.
I didn't say you loved, or even liked, violence. What I did say, and I'll expand on it, was pro violence, as in, I feel you think violence is not only acceptable, but actually the preferred reaction to threat.
And in doing so, any action after that, because of the perception of threat, is understandable and forgivable.
I've come to that conclusion across a number of threads, so please don't think this is knee-jerk or malicious
Shit, we have posters on here who have argued that all that matters is the mindset of the killer, not the actual facts. If someone is afraid they are in danger, regardless of actual danger, then blast away. So, in your scenario if the killer was afraid of hearing loss it would be totally justified.If a kid is shot in the face for playing loud music in a 7-Eleven parking lot at 11pm certain posters on this forum will defend such actions because city ordinance requires all loud music to cease at 10pm.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
This brought me to tears. It's a fcking assassination. Of a calm young pregnant woman in her car for what, a supposed shoplifting? I read somewhere she might not even have shoplifted. And I swear she just takes her foot off the break and the car idles forward when the pig shoots her.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Listen, all that matters is if the cop, or any random person, feels they are “threatened”. If they do it is a good kill. Right @Drainy ?This brought me to tears. It's a fcking assassination. Of a calm young pregnant woman in her car for what, a supposed shoplifting? I read somewhere she might not even have shoplifted. And I swear she just takes her foot off the break and the car idles forward when the pig shoots her.
How. How are there not riots. This is insane.
Edit: The comments on that Twitter page are all sickening. Doesn't seem like anyone watched the footage and just took the police report at face value.
Edit 2: shoplifting value was around $20. And eye witnesses say it wasn't even her.
It's a complex analysis whether it's a crime or not, I've not considered all the factors (of which the mental state of the officer is a major part, whether it's reasonable etc) and don't intend to do so, I will just agree it's tragicListen, all that matters is if the cop, or any random person, feels they are “threatened”. If they do it is a good kill. Right @Drainy ?
What mental state would the cop have to be in to shoot a pregnant woman dead? Threatened by her driving away? Or by the seriousness of the crime of stealing noodles from a Kroger store? Trying to run them over by turning her car around (because everyone knows, the side, not the front, of the car is the most dangerous).It's a complex analysis whether it's a crime or not, I've not considered all the factors (of which the mental state of the officer is a major part, whether it's reasonable etc) and don't intend to do so, I will just agree it's tragic
I hate when the police have their guns ready before there's any sign of trouble, ridiculous show of unwarranted aggression.
Also fecking weird to exploit Marcy's law by public servants to avoid criticism. What's that about
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
When I said nobody asked you, I was specifically talking about beyond reasonable doubt criteria.'Nobody asked you'. I was literally tagged into a post about a video that in all probability would otherwise not have watched because of the upsetting content.
I was critical of them drawing the gun, by the way, in case it was missed. They completely fecked up the situation, at least from what we've seen.
Speaking objectively, whether they are criminally liable is a more complex question, which is what I said.
I've already said it's tragic, to me that is a pretty terrible event. Don't know how to express my sadness at the circumstances better?
On the surface it seems excessive and whether it's departmental policy or the officers stupid judgement it shouldn't have gotten to that situation.When I said nobody asked you, I was specifically talking about beyond reasonable doubt criteria.
What I then went on to ask was if, on the balance of probabilities, you thought, rather than just being tragic, whether using a gun in this specific situation was justified or criminal