VAR and Refs | General Discussion

[Care_de_Bobo]

Eh? They are very often given as penalties. One of the most basic rules of defending is to keep your hands to yourself. As soon as you put hands on an opposition player you risk giving a foul away. To fully wrap an arm around him like that, with no attempt to play the ball with his feet, is a nailed on penalty.

Gabriel seemed to get away with the penalty decision and the Evans foul because he ended up on the floor himself. Since when have defenders been rewarded for having no balance?

I'm just imagining Maguire or Evans performing the exact same actions yesterday and how different the refereeing and media reactions would have been.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

Even Garnacho was not Offside. They used completely wrong angles to draw the line. Gabriel head was the point to draw the lines but VAR decided to use a back camera thus using his shoulders.

Even from this wide camera angle, garnacho is onside, even the commentators said so, looking at it live.

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[Fr. Todd Unctious]

The Rasmus incident. You seen them given plenty of times and if the roles had of been reversed yesterday there'd have been a meltdown from the usual suspects in the media and would be banging on about it for most of the international break

 

[saivet]

Here's a carbon copy of Gabriel's challenge being given as a foul by Lindelof outside of the box:

They're very different challenges.

I think we could have had a penalty but it wasn't stonewall one imo. It's not a criticism of the team but some times I think appealing a decision more vocally or visibly might have made the VAR take a longer look at it. From what I remember on the commentary, the VAR check was rapid.

 

[SuperiorXI]

For the offside why don't they have a special pitch side camera? Why do they use the fecking broadcast angle? Seems ludicrous to me.

 

[Devil You Know]

Even Garnacho was not Offside. They used completely wrong angles to draw the line. Gabriel head was the point to draw the lines but VAR decided to use a back camera thus using his shoulders.

Even from this wide camera angle, garnacho is onside, even the commentators said so, looking at it live.

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It's not the angle that's different here, it's the frame at which we've assumed Casemiro released the ball.

But I do think we need a margin of error that gives the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. This either means a thicker pair of lines, or a wider range of frames, or both.

 

[Devil77]

Knowing what Mike Dean admitted, I feel like there’s question marks over every ref and VAR decision now.

Which makes VAR even more pointless. It has taken away the emotions of watching the game and there are still discussions after each game. Just admit you were wrong and get rid of the f..ing thing!

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

VAR masterclass once again. Managed to get every big decision wrong. No red for Saka. Not booking Havertz for a dive. Using the wrong camera angle for an offside check for Garnacho's goal. Not reviewing Gabriel's tactical foul on Hojlund. Missing Gabriel's foul on Evans which led to Rice's goal. It's quite impressive to get that much wrong.

 

[ZupZup]

It's not the angle that's different here, it's the frame at which we've assumed Casemiro released the ball.

But I do think we need a margin of error that gives the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. This either means a thicker pair of lines, or a wider range of frames, or both.

The angle is different to the one VAR used to draw the lines. They drew the lines from the defender's shoulder (because of the bad angle) even though the better angle would show that his head is the closest part to the goal. It's impossible to lean forward like the defender did and have his shoulder be in front of his head.

 

[stevoc]

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When football has got to the stage where a perfectly good goal like yesterdays pre VAR is being ruled out for an attackers shoulder or knee being offside. Then we've lost sight of the reason Offside was introduced in the first place, it was to stop goal hanging not to rule out goals like yesterdays. There should be clear daylight between the attacker and defender and the attacker should get the advantage.

And even those lines are not clear. From that angle it looks like Gabriel's shoulder is the furtherest part of his body, but from the other angle his head is further and playing Garnacho onside. Plus it could be argued they've went off Garnacho's elbow instead of his shoulder.

I mean on what fecking planet is this an offside?

Bah! I fecking hate VAR it hasn't improved the game at all. It's just added another layer of incompetence.

 

[stevoc]

They showed the perfect angle parallel to the pitch for the replay which he looked inside, then VAR chooses to mess around looking at angles behind the play to make the decision.

make it make sense.

cnuts know what they're at, just like the Casemiro reds last season they know which angle to use to get the desired decision.

 

[stevoc]

Mike Dean was sure it was a penalty and that it wouldn't be overturned, but as soon as it was apparent that Taylor would review it, he completely reversed his opinion and said the opposite. Pointless addition to the broadcast.

It was a clear dive, not sure why he's dived either because he's clean through.

Not sure about the offside, but offsides seem cruel when they're that close. The dotted lines are so thick that it makes it impossible to be precise.

He'll be just like dopey Dermot, he'll rarely disagree with his Ref mates. As you say pointless to have either of them on.

 

[Ish]

Already so over fecking VAR and the seasons only 4 matches in.

 

[stevoc]

Did anyone see any replay of Hojlund going down in their box? The one ETH was furious about? Looked like a pen to me.

Looked like a Pen to me too but I don't bother even getting upset any more or expecting us to get awarded Penalties, as we're denied so many stonewalls every season. The odd time we do get one it's a surprise bonus.

 

[fallengt]

I don't think it's a foul on Evans, both of them were wrestling each other and Evans was more interested in that every time he challenged for a ball and the ref ignored it.

Shirt pulling during corner kick get whistled all the time, even for the slight contact.
But ref must spot it, VAR rarely calls for it.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

When football has got to the stage where a perfectly good goal like yesterdays pre VAR is being ruled out for an attackers shoulder or knee being offside. Then we've lost sight of the reason Offside was introduced in the first place, it was to stop goal hanging not to rule out goals like yesterdays. There should be clear daylight between the attacker and defender and the attacker should get the advantage.

And even those lines are not clear. From that angle it looks like Gabriel's shoulder is the furtherest part of his body, but from the other angle his head is further and playing Garnacho onside. Plus it could be argued they've went off Garnacho's elbow instead of his shoulder.

I mean on what fecking planet is this an offside?

Bah! I fecking hate VAR it hasn't improved the game at all. It's just added another layer of incompetence.

The more I see this, the angrier I get. Complete and utter bullshit. If, in any other profession, you make these mistakes, you're losing your job.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

I cant look at the offside, Saka red and Hojlund penalty without getting mad. Its like its one rule for one and another for others.
Reffing in the country is worse than ever.

 

[Cassidy]

Shirt pulling during corner kick get whistled all the time, even for the slight contact.
But ref must spot it, VAR rarely calls for it.

Not true

 

[Giggsyking]

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Saka red card. Same Ref. But players treated differently.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

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Saka red card. Same Ref. But players treated differently.

Anthony Taylor, nonetheless. You couldn't make it up!

 

[Remember the geese]

The odd time we do get one it's a surprise bonus.

And the whole world doesn't shut up about how unjust it is.

 

[Pexbo]

So are the FA going to apologise to ten Hag or fine him? The silence is deafening.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

 

[WeePat]

That's a very clear and obvious pen.

 

[Fr. Todd Unctious]

Penalty all day long I don't know how anyone can say otherwise.


Ten Hag needs to call this out even if it results in a touchline ban. These cnuts are just taking the p**s now. All because of ABU cnuts in the media pushing a false narrative about us getting decesions

 

[Shinjch]

Zero attempt to play the ball while taking the person who was in possession completely out of the game. If that isn't a foul then I don't know what is anymore.

 

[SuperiorXI]

The refs haven't got a fecking clue, they need replacing with AI so there's consistency in the game and no bias

 

[Ekkie Thump]

It wasn't a red card, it wasn't a foul on Evans, the offside law is infuriating bollocks that everyone has to deal with but it does look like Hojlund maybe should've had a penalty. If ref gives it it certainly doesn't get overturned.

One bad decision, one bad law.

That's my shite take anyway.

 

[stw2022]

The penalty incident is nowhere near as egregious than having a goal chalked off because of where they decided to draw lines on a blurred image. To be honest i think it's a bit annoying they're even being spoken of in the same breath. It muddies the water between something that's a clear outrage and something that's an objective decision.

Slowing down instances of contact that happen in real time and deciding to act based on how it looks in superslow motion is just another way VAR is shit.

Focus needs to be on the offside. The usual fan thing of not having watched a game in 30 years where we don't think we should won a penalty and had an opposition player sent off is letting VAR off the hook. The grievance is clear and strong with the offside and it needs to lead to change to how the rules are implemented

"I thinks..." based on replays of other instances in the game aren’t even of the same order of importance.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It wasn't a red card, it wasn't a foul on Evans, the offside law is infuriating bollocks that everyone has to deal with but it does look like Hojlund maybe should've had a penalty. If ref gives it it certainly doesn't get overturned.

One bad decision, one bad law.

That's my shite take anyway.

Agree with all of your shite take. Not a red card because contact is with his foot, rather than higher up his leg.

 

[Silverman]

Shock horror, Dermot Gallagher and co on Sky Sports saying all decisions were correct yesterday

 

[Johan77]

'Gabriel stands his ground'
INCIDENT: Rasmus Hojlund goes down in the area under a challenge from Gabriel. Should a penalty have been awarded?
DERMOT SAYS: There's physical contact but the defender is just too strong. Hojlund pushes the ball too far and Gabriel holds his ground, he doesn't do anything wrong.
You see this all the time and I'd have been stunned if Anthony Taylor had given anything for it.

This man is seriously deluded...

 

[SuperiorXI]

Shock horror, Dermot Gallagher and co on Sky Sports saying all decisions were correct yesterday

That show infuriates me, you've got a former ref and a die hard scouser chuckling away at how the decisions were "correct"

 

[Pexbo]

Shock horror, Dermot Gallagher and co on Sky Sports saying all decisions were correct yesterday

The worst thing about that is they just take his word as gospel and never ever push back or interrogate it even when what he’s saying is obviously completely illogical or inconsistent with what he said the week before.

 

[acnumber9]

It amazes me that Sky and BT pay these people for their opinions. Who actually gets anything from watching them just agree with everything the ref does?

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

The Rasmus incident. You seen them given plenty of times and if the roles had of been reversed yesterday there'd have been a meltdown from the usual suspects in the media and would be banging on about it for most of the international break

Especially that ape-faced loser Martin Keown. He would have thrown feces all over the BBC studio for the second time in 8 days if the penalty was given.

It's not the angle that's different here, it's the frame at which we've assumed Casemiro released the ball.

But I do think we need a margin of error that gives the benefit of the doubt to the attacker. This either means a thicker pair of lines, or a wider range of frames, or both.

This is where the proposal for amending the offside rule would make things clearer through the notion of a definite daylight between striker and last defender. I read that is it being tested in Italy, Netherlands and Sweden. But at the same time, I swear that the Premier League must upgrade its VAR support software to match FIFA's 3D scan of the entire pitch used in 2 World Cups now. You can't rely on an obsolete program time and time again.

cnuts know what they're at, just like the Casemiro reds last season they know which angle to use to get the desired decision.

One set of English-speaking commentators even said straight away that Gabriel's head was the bit that kept Garnacho onside. Seeing it now makes me feel even angrier.

As for Saka, that was worse than Casemiro's red card against So'ton last season.

After making the rounds on various social media, I agree with one thing in particular: United needs to be far more ferocious in publicly calling out shit officiating in the same manner that Pep and Klopp have done for years now.

 

[stevoc]

The more I see this, the angrier I get. Complete and utter bullshit. If, in any other profession, you make these mistakes, you're losing your job.

But fortunately for the Refs they are in one of the very few industries where the people who decide whether or not they're doing their job properly. Is other members of their private little chum club that all stick up for each other.

Something has to change, with the amount of money at stake these days results of matches can't come down to some feckwit deciding where to place lines. VAR was supposed to make the standards of officiating better, help the referees, make the game fairer and have less decisions come down to refereeing mistakes. But in my eyes all it's done is make things worse, because the Refs are not using it with the good of the game in mind, they are only begrudgingly using it. But doing so in a way to protect their mates from embarassment.

The whole thing needs stripped down and rebuilt from the ground up. The refs on VAR should have no connection or interactions with the refs on the pitch.

 

[90 + 5min]

Silence in media tells you everything about ABUism. How we are treated by VAR and refs tells you everything about ABUism.

I still can't believe that our club is so afraid of making official complaint about anti ManUtd refereeing we are all seeing. There is no club in the world who would accept this. This is beyond tactics, players and everything else and will keep going because our club is just letting itself being bullied. Club needs to protect its name. It needs to protect manager. It needs to proctect players.

 

[El Zoido]

cnuts know what they're at, just like the Casemiro reds last season they know which angle to use to get the desired decision.

It’s pretty clear he’s onside. We got robbed.

If this result was reversed and Arsenal got the offside and penalty shout denied and then we won the game, there would be a media meltdown. PGMOL would have already issued a written apology to Arsenal. As it is, crickets.

 

[stevoc]

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Saka red card. Same Ref. But players treated differently.

fecking joke