Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Back in the squad

[GledTheRed]

Rachel Riley sentenced him yet?

 

[Red the Bear]

For the sake of consistency we have to suspended him for now if there's any merit to the reports of course.

After that, who knows.

 

[bosnian_red]

You asked why we are under pressure to do anything. The actions of the Brazilian FA and our recent mess surrounding Greenwood has us under pressure. These allegations have been out for months.

Hypothetically though, if Antony keeps playing for United and nothing in the case changes by October, I bet they call him up (if he is good enough). They booted him because of the timing more than anything imo.

 

[Laurencio]

Right now we aren’t even at that stage. Allegations have been made and police is ascertaining the validity of the claims. Once police files a case against Antony, then criminal investigation will start. Then we will suspend him most likely depending on the type of charges brought against him.

You can’t suspend people just because someone has made allegations against him/her.

He is under investigation, but he has not been charged with anything. I'm not saying suspend him now - I think there are better ways of handling this that doesn't leave Man Utd without room to maneuver, but they have to do or say something.

 

[pratyush_utd]

You asked why we are under pressure to do anything. The actions of the Brazilian FA and our recent mess surrounding Greenwood has us under pressure. These allegations have been out for months.

Brazil FA dont employ him. And greenwood case had an audio in which he was saying some truly awful stuff.

Antony case cant be compared. We cant just suspend him because police havent charged him with anything after months of investigation. These allegations are not new and Brazil FA probably decided to keep their team out of it. Unfortunately we can’t avoid like they did and also act in the same way.

 

[moses]

Brazil FA dont employ him. And greenwood case had an audio in which he was saying some truly awful stuff.

Antony case cant be compared. We cant just suspend him because police havent charged him with anything after months of investigation. These allegations are not new and Brazil FA probably decided to keep their team out of it. Unfortunately we can’t avoid like they did and also act in the same way.

These allegations broke on June 6. Nobody acted. Something has shifted to make the Brazilian FA act.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

These allegations broke on June 6. Nobody acted. Something has shifted to make the Brazilian FA act.

The UOL article with the (circumstantial) photos and WhatsApp chat logs was published a few days ago

 

[Laurencio]

These allegations broke on June 6. Nobody acted. Something has shifted to make the Brazilian FA act.

The UOL stuff. WhatsApp messages where Antony apologises for kicking his girlfriend, threats of violence, and a number of messages that she sent to friends and agents about how he beat her again.

It's pretty bad. If it hadn't been in Portuguese I'm sure it would be plastered all over.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Rachel Riley sentenced him yet?

Apparently he's banned from picking consonants

 

[pratyush_utd]

These allegations broke on June 6. Nobody acted. Something has shifted to make the Brazilian FA act.

TV interview.

From Antony statement, it looks like proceedings are in final stage and he seems confident he will be vindicated.

Brazil FA must have decided to keep themselves out of media circus

 

[always_hoping]

Has to be binned like Greenwood. A similar amount of evidence is coming out.

Anyway this club is an absolute house on fire.
It's completely fecked.

Clearly the people running it have no idea what they are doing. Wonder how much ETH knew about his anger problems.....

The audio clips meant there was no way back for Mason, you say similar is that the case in regards to these allegations?

 

[Gazautd18]

Ah shit, here we go again...

 

[moses]

Hypothetically though, if Antony keeps playing for United and nothing in the case changes by October, I bet they call him up (if he is good enough). They booted him because of the timing more than anything imo.

Yeah it's very possible but Brazil tends not to overreact in protection of women. They have a really poor track record with violence against women. I don't know how anything about the Brazilian FA so that might be a very unfair comment.

 

[pratyush_utd]

The ULO stuff. WhatsApp messages where Antony apologises for kicking his girlfriend, threats of violence, and a number of messages that she sent to friends and agents about how he beat her again.

It's pretty bad. If it hadn't been in Portuguese I'm sure it would be plastered all over.

That is not what is there in snapshots. He is not apologising for hitting her and threats are “i hope you die” which isnt a threat to kill someone. The media house is coming to that conclusion, those chats snapshots are not that conclusive

Also its a whatsapp chat with name “Antony S”. Its not at all reliable evidence

 

[glasgow 21]

..

In the Antony case as I understand it there's currently two very salient issues for the club :
- The allegation a club doc was involved at one point patching up his partner after abuse.
- How has the club managed the past 4 months since they likely became aware Antony was possibly involved in legal jeopardy and the broad lines of what the allegations were.
[/QUOTE]
This bit is a weird one for me as I can't see anything other than Antony being trouble the next day after this incident happened Jan 14 if a club doctor is involved especially when the club is in the middle of Greenwood's case.

 

[Wibble]

it was hypothetical scenario.

Why would you feel the need to raise a hypothetical question that involved a women making false claims?

Why didn't you, for example, also raise the possibility that Anthony likes hurting women, as you have no factual basis for that hypothetical either?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

 

[lsd]

So if somebody made allegations against you, you think it would be ok to derail your life?

Depends on the proof or evidence. If there were pictures and audio etc of me being abusive then yes every single time

 

[Big Ben Foster]

That is not what is there in snapshots. He is not apologising for hitting her and threats are “i hope you die” which isnt a threat to kill someone. The media house is coming to that conclusion, those chats snapshots are not that conclusive

Also its a whatsapp chat with name “Antony S”. Its not at all reliable evidence

Correct - I read through the texts and listened to the audios (I'm a native Portuguese speaker). Antony apologizes for his behavior but never specifies what the behavior in question was. All the evidence that's been publicly released so far is circumstantial at best, so I wouldn't equate any of this to the Greenwood situation just yet.

 

[Laurencio]

That is not what is there in snapshots. He is not apologising for hitting her and threats are “i hope you die” which isnt a threat to kill someone. The media house is coming to that conclusion, those chats snapshots are not that conclusive

Also its a whatsapp chat with name “Antony S”. Its not at all reliable evidence

Correct - I read through the texts and listened to the audios (I'm a native Portuguese speaker). Antony apologizes for his behavior but never specifies what the behavior in question was. All the evidence that's been publicly released so far is circumstantial at best, so I wouldn't equate any of this to the Greenwood situation just yet.

Thanks for the clarification. I would agree that none of the evidence is anything like the stuff we saw in the Greenwood case.

 

[pocco]

I heard a rumour early on in the Greenwood case (from a family whose son plays in the youth teams) that the club intended on bringing him back and that they were offering to pay off his missus to shut her up. Obviously to be took with a pinch of salt. But it makes me wonder when I hear about this club doctor treating her and this seemingly being swept under the rug for so long.

 

[Ted Lasso]

What the f*ck. That poor woman.

Am I off the mark in stereotyping Brazil as being misogynistic and thinking that for the Brazilian FA to be taking this stance it must really really be bad?

 

[Ted Lasso]

I heard a rumour early on in the Greenwood case (from a family whose son plays in the youth teams) that the club intended on bringing him back and that they were offering to pay off his missus to shut her up. Obviously to be took with a pinch of salt. But it makes me wonder when I hear about this club doctor treating her and this seemingly being swept under the rug for so long.

I missed this bit. Mind pointing me to it? I read she was treated in Manchester but didn't link it to the club

 

[pocco]

I missed this bit. Mind pointing me to it? I read she was treated in Manchester but didn't link it to the club

I've just read that in other comments from others, it didn't get pulled up so presumed that's what she's claimed. I first saw it on reddit a day or two ago, they managed to figure out which club doctor it was and something about him leaving thy club within the following days/ weeks after being here 16 years. I'll try and find it.

 

[Pronewbie]

I heard a rumour early on in the Greenwood case (from a family whose son plays in the youth teams) that the club intended on bringing him back and that they were offering to pay off his missus to shut her up. Obviously to be took with a pinch of salt. But it makes me wonder when I hear about this club doctor treating her and this seemingly being swept under the rug for so long.

If this is true it has to be brought up to the authorities' attention and judged accordingly, because who knows what other systemic abuse the club is hiding. Absolutely slanderous stuff (whether true or not).

If proven guilty I'll stop supporting this club immediately. Otherwise I'll take it as gossip and hearsay.

 

[Ted Lasso]

I've just read that in other comments from others, it didn't get pulled up so presumed that's what she's claimed. I first saw it on reddit a day or two ago, they managed to figure out which club doctor it was and something about him leaving thy club within the following days/ weeks after being here 16 years. I'll try and find it.

Quite a bit swirling around at the moment. I don't have it in me to listen or watch more direct audio on this after the MG stuff. Going to just go off y'all

 

[pocco]

If this is true it has to be brought up to the authorities' attention and judged accordingly, because who knows what other systemic abuse the club is hiding. Absolutely slanderous stuff (whether true or not).

If proven guilty I'll stop supporting this club immediately. Otherwise I'll take it as gossip and hearsay.

I'd take it as hearsay as it's just a rumour. I forgot all about it till now but this thing apparently involving the club doctor, and the way United eventually did handle the Greenwood case, just makes me wonder.

 

[Plastic Evra]

I missed this bit. Mind pointing me to it? I read she was treated in Manchester but didn't link it to the club

Read on Reddit under the ESPN Brazil article :

The article was edited to clarify it was Antony's personal physiotherapist that took the woman to get medical treatment, not United club doctors.

However the article from June 6 mentions she received treatment from 2 MU doctors. Maybe the correction is elsewhere ?
ESPN Brazil (in Portuguese but automatic translation will help you locate the phrase and the general meaning).

To take with some caution.

 

[Wumminator]

I can’t figure out what is real and what is not with this case? Is there a link with the allegations?

 

[pratyush_utd]

Why would you feel the need to raise a hypothetical question that involved a women making false claims?

Why didn't you, for example, also raise the possibility that Anthony likes hurting women, as you have no factual basis for that hypothetical either?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Yes it could either way. I reiterate, i am neither believing or dismissing this case.

Edited to remove the Antony case evidence comment

 

[TsuWave]

Am I off the mark in stereotyping Brazil as being misogynistic and thinking that for the Brazilian FA to be taking this stance it must really really be bad?

What are you even saying here? Where are you from?

 

[Stack]

Yes it could either way. I reiterate, i am neither believing or dismissing this case. But on the merits of evidence provided thus far, the leaking of evidence to media when same was presented to authorities who were validating the evidence and adding personal doctor part instead of the club doctor part which wasnt part of original accusation in June despite the event in question happened in January of this year, makes me lean towards not punishing Antony just yet.

You completely missed Wibbles point......

 

[Wibble]

You cant act against anyone with the level of proof that is presented

An organisation is well within its rights to sanction, suspend or dismiss an employee if they commit a serious enough breech of their contract or bring the company into disrepute, as judged by the club (combined with legal advice). Such a standard may often involve no criminal actions, or actions where the proof for a criminal prosecution falls below "beyond a reasonable doubt". Clubs do it all the time, often by fining players wages.

 

[Wibble]

Yes it could either way. I reiterate, i am neither believing or dismissing this case. But on the merits of evidence provided thus far, the leaking of evidence to media when same was presented to authorities who were validating the evidence and adding personal doctor part instead of the club doctor part which wasnt part of original accusation in June despite the event in question happened in January of this year, makes me lean towards not punishing Antony just yet.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

You seem to think it is reasonable to invent a hypothetical where the women is a liar because the player denies it, but you don't feel the need to invent a hypothetical that paints the player as violent when his former partner says he is. At best this is a double standard and at worse it reveal misogynistic tendencies. If that is not your intention you aren't doing a very good job of it.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

What the f*ck. That poor woman.

Am I off the mark in stereotyping Brazil as being misogynistic and thinking that for the Brazilian FA to be taking this stance it must really really be bad?

I wouldn't read into it. The national team has two qualifiers coming up and Antony is a relatively unimportant player, so more likely they figured with the timing of the UOL article that's it's just not worth the trouble keeping him in the squad. Too many potential distractions.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

You seem to think it is reasonable to invent a hypothetical where the women is a liar because the player denies it, but you don't feel the need to invent a hypothetical that paints the player as violent when his former partner says he is. At best this is a double standard and at worse it reveal misogynistic tendencies. If that is not your intention you aren't doing a very good job of it.

Defaulting to a presumption of innocence in the absence of strong direct evidence doesn't necessarily equate to claiming the accuser is a liar.

 

[pratyush_utd]

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

You seem to think it is reasonable to invent a hypothetical where the women is a liar because the player denies it, but you don't feel the need to invent a hypothetical that paints the player as violent when his former partner says he is. At best this is a double standard and at worse it reveal myogenetic tendencies. If that is not your intention you aren't doing a very good job of it.

I am not really responsible for the conclusions you are drawing in your own head. And its too late in the night for me to actually go back and re read all the comments that you have taken an offence to. Anyways i am done with this topic now.

At this moment, we dont have enough evidence to say either and certainly not enough to punish Antony. Thats where i will stop.

 

[maniak]

Am I off the mark in stereotyping Brazil as being misogynistic and thinking that for the Brazilian FA to be taking this stance it must really really be bad?

Some people are losing the plot in this thread...

 

[Ted Lasso]

Read on Reddit under the ESPN Brazil article :


However the article from June 6 mentions she received treatment from 2 MU doctors. Maybe the correction is elsewhere ?
ESPN Brazil (in Portuguese but automatic translation will help you locate the phrase and the general meaning).

To take with some caution.

Thank you. So seemingly not club doctor but a situation that I'm guessing is how some of this falls under UK jurisdiction.

I wouldn't read into it. The national team has two qualifiers coming up and Antony is a relatively unimportant player, so more likely they figured with the timing of the UOL article that's it's just not worth the trouble keeping him in the squad. Too many potential distractions.

That makes a lot of sense. And seemingly there's now no ignoring this from the club.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Read on Reddit under the ESPN Brazil article :


However the article from June 6 mentions she received treatment from 2 MU doctors. Maybe the correction is elsewhere ?
ESPN Brazil (in Portuguese but automatic translation will help you locate the phrase and the general meaning).

To take with some caution.

The ESPN article (read in the original Portuguese) makes it sound like the incident involving the club doctors and the incident involving the personal physio were two separate occurrences.

 

[Wibble]

I am not really responsible for the conclusions you are drawing in your own head.

You are however responsible for what you post.