Defaulting to hypotheticals that make the women reporting DV a liar goes far further than an assumption of innocence in the legal criminal sense.
Antony under investigation by Brazilian authorities for domestic abuse | Back in the squad
- Thread starter laughtersassassin
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yeah, exactly. I was speaking in general there, not about Antony specifically.
If it's not him. It's pretty easy to proove. You know phone provider and whatsapp keeps a detailed conversation history. And Antony could have easilly debuked it. It wasnt me, prove it by official record.
Silence is a form of admissio
Seems like a lot of speculation on top of speculation, making it very difficult to arrive at informed conclusion as to the optimal path forward for the player, potentially impacted parties and the club.
Silence may indeed be a form of admission, but I would also assume in this scenario it's a form of letting your legal team deal with the whole case rather than posting piecemeal rebuttals of every single piece of evidence against you.
I think based on all the "evidence" posted in this thread claiming "silence" is "admission" is a stretch.
Prior to things reaching court you never hear about the alleged evidence in basically all domestic violence cases unless the person is famous and/or there is money involved. Mostly the real evidence remains confidential for purposes of protecting the victim, but also for ensuring there are no shenanigans with the case.
I'm not going to speculate either way on this. One thing is certain is that the reputational damage to the club is again massive and even if found innocent Anthony's future may be in doubt (which I guess is a form of speculation).
Yes it is only an allegation.
But that means maybe some people shouldn't go straight to shouting that the victim is a liar as well. Works both ways.
The Silence of the Clubs...
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...legations-football-domestic-abuse-allegations
Manchester United silent on Antony allegations amid calls for football to change
Brazilian accused of assault and domestic abuse by ex-girlfriend
Calls for decision on player to be taken out of club’s hands
Manchester United are staying silent despite growing pressure to take action against Antony, the Brazilian winger who has been accused of assault and domestic abuse by his former girlfriend Gabriela Cavallin, with fan groups and domestic abuse charities calling for the decision to be taken out of the club’s hands.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...legations-football-domestic-abuse-allegations
Manchester United silent on Antony allegations amid calls for football to change
Brazilian accused of assault and domestic abuse by ex-girlfriend
Calls for decision on player to be taken out of club’s hands
Manchester United are staying silent despite growing pressure to take action against Antony, the Brazilian winger who has been accused of assault and domestic abuse by his former girlfriend Gabriela Cavallin, with fan groups and domestic abuse charities calling for the decision to be taken out of the club’s hands.
Interesting that the woman's group don't explicitly state what they would want the club to do in this situation.
I am a little confused as to their stance here, are they suggesting he gets dropped from the squad, taken out of the limelight, as currently he has not been charged with anything?
I've heard mainly that we should wait for proof as the Antony defense, which is hardly the same as calling her a liar. I've heard a lot more knee jerk reactions essentially condemning him
Yeah, finding Riley's comments on Israel and antisemitism problematic and finding her comments about Greenwood, Antony and the club in particular are correct should be 2 entirely separate things.
I mean you can do both, as people can be right about one thing and wrong about another thing
Is there no clause in the contract where you are caught in criminal proceeding the club has every right to terminate your contract?
I'm pretty sure that clause exist in every employment contract I've signed in my career.
I'm pretty sure that clause exist in every employment contract I've signed in my career.
He’s such a hot tempered player that I can see him getting red carded from the added abuse and jeering he’d get from rival fans. Him getting clattered to a round of applause and then him kicking out.
I’m not sure where I am in regard to suspending him. I think the allegations are vile and if there’s a sprinkle of truth, then he needs to go. But I appreciate there’s a difference between this and the Greenwood case and so it needs to be treated differently - as I was a staunch Greenwood out advocate.
Whether we suspend him or not based on what’s known, he just seems like the type of player who’d get affected by it.
I’m not sure where I am in regard to suspending him. I think the allegations are vile and if there’s a sprinkle of truth, then he needs to go. But I appreciate there’s a difference between this and the Greenwood case and so it needs to be treated differently - as I was a staunch Greenwood out advocate.
Whether we suspend him or not based on what’s known, he just seems like the type of player who’d get affected by it.
So that automatically means Antony must be guilty and should be tried by the media? what if he is innocent, that is okay because there is a more important cause??
I agree that domestic and sexual violence cases do not get prosecuted as often or as vigorously as they should but we need to change the system not allow the media to destroy peoples lives and ignore due process
It's not that easy to submit false evidence. You get grilled pretty hard and all the other Circumstances must also corroborate. Your friends, pictures of you hanging out, proove of relationships, alibi, time of incident needs to checked out.
It's not that simple like doctoring a chat screenshot and submitting it as evidence
MG case is different. Normally players are just being told that investigation is pending and that's it.
MG just happens to have a very damning evidence out in the open.
My position on Antony is he's innocence until further evidence materialized. Which will or will not be available to public.
As for MG. With the recording and picture which he didnt challenge. He's a cnut.
But in this case there aren't, are there? there are pictures that appear to be of injuries, but these were not taken by the police or an independent medical facility, due process exists for a reason, if we ignore due process then you have bigger problems that a footballer and his ex to worry about.
So you have said you would be okay with having your life turned upside down if somebody made allegations against you, basically if you were guilty... what if you were innocent??
My best friend growing up, his parents used to foster kids, when one of them became ill they had to stop, one of the girls they were fostering had to leave, she then made allegations against the whole family, these were found to be untrue and later she admitted she made the whole thing up out of spite and being rejected (I have some sympathy for her feelings but not her actions), my friends dad, and a friend of their family almost lost their jobs, my friend who spent several days being interrogated by police had to have counselling and go on anti-depression medication. The girl who made the allegations got a caution!
Off the top of my head, Matthew Kelly had allegations made against him, publicly interviewed by the police and subsequently there was no evidence, yet his career was ruined, look at the impact on Jimmy Tarbuck, or the way the police raided Cliff Richard's home with the press watching, there are many more examples I am sure but my point is, that this is not victimless either which way, you cannot put the cat back in the box, there has to be a better system which supports victims and doesn't see the accused being punished until they are actually found guilty.
Don't be ridiculous. I said nothing of the sort.
You’re probably not worth £80m to your employers
False allegations are disgusting and do damage lives. The numbers of unreported cases of domestic abuse far outweigh the cases where people manufacture evidence to this degree.
While he is innocent, there is a massive question mark over it just at the moment.
Disagree , untill arrested and charged.
We set the standard with MG that should not be changed.
It does piss me off what Arsenal have been able to get away with, will there ever be consequences for how they've just carried on? I know its a bit what about them etc. but whatever.
We live in ridiculous times.
It used to be innocent until proven guilty , now its guilty until proven innocent.
These type of things should not be made public until a verdict has been reached in court.
The social media witch hunt on these things is out of control.
It used to be innocent until proven guilty , now its guilty until proven innocent.
These type of things should not be made public until a verdict has been reached in court.
The social media witch hunt on these things is out of control.
There is definately a double standard when you compare the reactions to Greenwood and Partey in the media.
It's night and day. There has to be legal reasons, but places like Sky make a choice to still talk and focus on Partey's amazing football abilities, they don't need to go the extra mile. It is very irksome.
Actually in most cases now it's guilty even if proven innocent in public eye.
Issue is most countries/people, rightly or wrongly, have the attitude now that if you are rich you will get away with it. So whenever someone who is considered privileged is accused by someone less privileged, in eyes of most people they are pronounced guilty and it's very hard for them to change their outlook.
Yeah it doesnt feel right. Especially given what the alleged victim went through. The online harrassment she received from Arsenal fans was extreme.
I don't even think it's that. Once you are accused of something it seems to stick with you even if you are later proven innocent, particularly in football. Doesn't seem to be any way back from it.
"Please post respectfully"
Our strongest suit
Our strongest suitHe's not charged is he? If he's charged later then the club will suspend him.
What are the examples of football people being proven innocent you are thinking of?
Exactly this. The MG scenario being the latest example of everyone seeing actual evidence, yet nothing happening. This kind of thing is just concreting this view.
Money talks though.
People being falsely accused of something they did not do is a problem that we should take seriously.
People being the victim of domestic abuse and not being belived/helped is a huge problem and something we should take much more seriously.
That domestic abuse actually exist is the biggest problem of the three and should be taken extremely seriously.
People being the victim of domestic abuse and not being belived/helped is a huge problem and something we should take much more seriously.
That domestic abuse actually exist is the biggest problem of the three and should be taken extremely seriously.
Sigurdsson
The club should release a statement today. Suspension should come when/if he gets charged but the club should still acknowledge the ongoing investigation / media narrative.
Yep.
"The CSEW estimated 2.4 million adults aged 16 years and over experienced domestic abuse in the year ending March 2022 (1.7 million women and 699,000 men). This equates to a prevalence rate of approximately 5.0% of adults (6.9% women and 3.0% men)."
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...walesoverview/november2022#measuring-the-data
Do you mean that without his money MG would have been sent to prison?
No in most cases it's guilty and not even charged.
False accusations are disgusting. But the stats show it's a very small % that goes to the stage of falsely submitting evidence. Especially relative to the estimated domestic abuse figures.
Its insane numbers.
Actually insane.
This is the most annoying part.
When we talk about double standards, this is the thing that stands out. It seems the press have just decided to pile on United because we're an easy target at the moment.
But revitalised FC after 3 non-CL finishes in a row were off the table for some reason last year.
Let the due process take course and if he's charged and arrested, then there's a precedent that's been set and the club would then look suspicious if we don't follow it.
What?
Is it so? In most cases?