Erik ten Hag vs Sancho

[stefan92]

What was the outcome at Dortmund? How did they deal with it? Because he was performing well when we signed him.

Earlier in this thread an article was posted with details like the assistant manager regularly picking him up for meetings because otherwise he wouldn't arrive on time. They also benched him a few times or left him out of the squad, similarly to what happened now and he in one case at least also complained publicly about it. But there they also always quickly were able to reintegrate him and he genuinely seemed to be happy playing for them most of the time.

As he said in his infamous post he just wants to have fun and he did have fun there.

Essentially it looks like Dortmund was willing to care for a man-child while United expected not to sign a child.

Btw it is not the first time Dortmund cared this way about players, when Dembele played there there were reports about the club signing people to clean up the mess he made in his home and similar stuff.

 

[crossy1686]

Interesting that people think Pellestri or Amad will get games as a result of this. To me it looks like the manager doesn't fancy them at all. I think it'll mainly be Bruno or Mount.

They've been injured or not ready for the first team. No one fancied Rashford until all our forwards got injured, sometimes you have to take your chances.

 

[Mickeza]

That's fair enough but the whole situation could have been avoided by keeping player issues private. The media can create enough drama around the club without the manager heloing them out.

The whole situation couldn’t have been avoided by keeping it in-house. The situation was he didn’t make the squad despite being fit due to his levels of performance and attitude in training being under par. Why is everyone making out like this public spat has resulted in sancho now not playing when he was already not playing? He wouldn’t have been in the squad this week either unless his attitude and levels improved. We’ve seen from his response that was very unlikely to happen - he thinks his levels and attitude are great. This public noise is irrelevant - the underlying issue is his attitude and that isn’t changing whether ETH lied about him being injured or whatever it is you want him to make up.

 

[Judas]

Did you not see what the Dortmund coaches were doing to make sure they could sell him instead of this happening?

The assistant coach would go to his hotel room and wake him to make sure he wasn't late for meetings and didn't get in trouble. They enabled his behaviour so he wouldn't sulk and they could still get a fee for him.

Didn’t know about the hotel stuff, that’s mental. He’s not some generational talent, I’m glad we’re not sinking that low.

 

[Vault Dweller]

To quote Bobby Baratheon:

Stupid Boy.

 

[crossy1686]

What was the outcome at Dortmund? How did they deal with it? Because he was performing well when we signed him.

Didn’t know about the hotel stuff, that’s mental. He’s not some generational talent, I’m glad we’re not sinking that low.

Here, I quoted the Athletic the other day with the shit that has been going on since Dortmund:

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Doesn't even want to leave, just wants to call his boss out for making him accountable for turning up on time and training.

And for those that say he has mental health problems and needs support, see the following:

Ten Hag had become increasingly exasperated with Jadon Sancho’s punctuality and what he perceived as sluggishness in training. This has also not gone unnoticed by his team-mates, some of whom share the manager’s sense of frustration. [@TheAthleticFC] #MUFC

Last season, Ten Hag and his coaches tried to get Jadon Sancho to arrive on time by setting him a schedule at least one hour earlier than the rest of the #mufc squad.

This tactic had some initial success, before Sancho fell into familiar patterns. [TheAthleticFC]

One source close to Dortmund noted that although “Jadon [Sancho] was mentally tough on the pitch” he could be “quite childish and unprofessional with little things”.

Occasionally missing team meetings or oversleeping were viewed as problematic. It got to the point where Edin Terzic, Lucien Favre’s assistant at Dortmund, would personally knock on Sancho’s hotel room door to pick him up before meetings. [TheAthleticFC]

Former England youth coach speaking on Jadon Sancho:

“Maybe (because) they don’t wear their tracksuit bottoms exactly like everybody else or their laces are undone or they wear headphones, we think they’re a bad person and we start to label them.

“They might be late once or twice, but somebody else might be late once or twice but we’ll forgive the other person because they fit our unconscious bias.”

MUFC prepared to sanction transfer of £65m

Sancho never open to a move and went to New York on holiday

Situation complicated by Antony's absence "until further notice"

 

[Fluctuation0161]

What did ETH gain by calling out Sancho in public? He could have said he had a minor injury. This does not excuse Sancho's actions of course.

Probably tried every other course of action. If sancho isn't responding this is the next step. He needs to go if he can't handle scrutiny. He's at Manchester United, it's unavoidable.

 

[sepulturite]

Ten Hag on the Sancho saga

brilliant. Good ol' Mike, such a great character.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

A throwback to 2018 with Ten Hag facing an insubordinate Amin Younes. If people think that Ten Hag didn't have to deal with unruly characters before he joined United, you got it wrong.

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— Twitter API (@user) date

If you ask where is Younes now, the answer is that he doesn't have a club anymore. Be aware, Sancho, because this could well be you in 5 years from now.

 

[Redstain]

The whole situation couldn’t have been avoided by keeping it in-house. The situation was he didn’t make the squad despite being fit due to his levels of performance and attitude in training being under par. Why is everyone making out like this public spat has resulted in sancho now not playing when he was already not playing? He wouldn’t have been in the squad this week either unless his attitude and levels improved. We’ve seen from his response that was very unlikely to happen - he thinks his levels and attitude are great. This public noise is irrelevant - the underlying issue is his attitude and that isn’t changing whether ETH lied about him being injured or whatever it is you want him to make up.

The underlying problem is Sancho's stance on what has now become a public issue which from reports the manager is awaiting an apology for.

This is a situation both the manager and player has created. It could have been dealt with in-house but maybe ETH prompted a response from the player so was honest in his feedback to the media. Man management is also a pre-requisite in the function of the coach. I think Sancho hasn't reacted accordingly but for any modern manager public criticism of any player will always land in hot water. The only managers who really get away with it are those who are credible where you cannot really question their judgement such as Pep.

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Fully behind EtH on this.

guys been beyond useless for us and collected a huge amount of wages despite not even playing as he’s always away from the team. Should be binned off at the earliest opportunity along with our other waster Martial. 2 of our top earners that are never anywhere to be found and have a pathetic attitude.

 

[golden_blunder]

So, in last 15 days we lost 3 right wingers who cost around 250 mil. I don't know to laugh or cry.

Sancho + Antony don’t cost that much combined

 

[MacarisSocks]

Sancho + Antony don’t cost that much combined

Greenwood played off the Right wing and had to be in the 100M bracket?

 

[MacarisSocks]

While enthusing over the new Sancho signing a mate of mine said "I've heard he's a bit of a dick".
We need to let ETH continue to make Manchester United a 'Dick Free Zone'. He started with Pogba so crack on Eric.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Sancho + Antony don’t cost that much combined

An in form Greenwood is worth 90-100m so the math makes sense on a theoretical level.

 

[Mickeza]

The underlying problem is Sancho's stance on what has now become a public issue which from reports the manager is awaiting an apology for.

This is a situation both the manager and player has created. It could have been dealt with in-house but maybe ETH prompted a response from the player so was honest in his feedback to the media. Man management is also a pre-requisite in the function of the coach. I think Sancho hasn't reacted accordingly but for any modern manager public criticism of any player will always land in hot water. The only managers who really get away with it are those who are credible where you cannot really question their judgement such as Pep.

No. The underlying problems are his performance levels and attitude in training. He had already been dropped entirely from the squad prior to the public spat. He had already been dropped as a planned starter against spurs prior to the public spat. The assumption that without this public spat he’d be starting this weekend is not based on any factual evidence. There is nothing to suggest his training levels and attitude would have improved without the public incident - in fact his response on Twitter indicates they absolutely wouldn’t - he already believes he’s training at a high level.

 

[horsechoker]

A throwback to 2018 with Ten Hag facing an insubordinate Amin Younes. If people think that Ten Hag didn't have to deal with unruly characters before he joined United, you got it wrong.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If you ask where is Younes now, the answer is that he doesn't have a club anymore. Be aware, Sancho, because this could well be you in 5 years from now.

Things like this keep happening to ten Hag so therefore he must be a bad manager

 

[stefan92]

A throwback to 2018 with Ten Hag facing an insubordinate Amin Younes. If people think that Ten Hag didn't have to deal with unruly characters before he joined United, you got it wrong.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

If you ask where is Younes now, the answer is that he doesn't have a club anymore. Be aware, Sancho, because this could well be you in 5 years from now.

Sancho might behave childish but he still is far below Younes' level of being an idiot

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Things like this keep happening to ten Hag so therefore he must be a bad manager

And does that cut in your workplace when you have an insubordinate employee openly defying the immediate superior?

 

[Andycoleno9]

Sancho + Antony don’t cost that much combined

+Greenwood. It doesn't matter that he is academy product. He is also club's (high value) asset. And in today's market, before he did that shit, he was easily worth 70-80 mil euros. At least.

 

[horsechoker]

And does that cut in your workplace when you have an insubordinate employee openly defying the immediate superior?

Players don't try to go against Pep, they bow down and kiss his ring

 

[stefan92]

Players don't try to go against Pep, they bow down and kiss his ring

Is it safe to say that Pep only signs players who do this? I guarantee you that Younes would have made trouble if he ever played for Pep, simply because he made trouble at every club he ever was.

And City wasn't interested to get Sancho back, they probably knew why not.

 

[Cloud7]

Here, I quoted the Athletic the other day with the shit that has been going on since Dortmund:

Imagine making that much money and you can’t even be bothered to wake up on time or get to training on time. These lads really live in a different world.

 

[Salfordlad70]

Some players cannot take the discipline that is required. McGrath and Strachan in Fergie's days were moved out. Ten Hag is bringing that level of discipline back. He is looking for personalities as well as talent.

I fully back Ten Hag on his stance. You’re right about Ferguson, he just would not stand for a lack of discipline and respect. Add Ince and Whiteside to those two you mentioned. Great footballers, but such disruptive influences and Whiteside along with Robson and McGrath spent too much time in the boozer.

It will take time to clear out all the passengers, but we’ll get there eventually.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Is it safe to say that Pep only signs players who do this? I guarantee you that Younes would have made trouble if he ever played for Pep, simply because he made trouble at every club he ever was.

And City wasn't interested to get Sancho back, they probably knew why not.

This. Pep cleaned house with a large number of players (including Sancho) leaving after he arrived at City. Ten Hag did the same with Younes (who was there before Ten Hag joined Ajax), did the same with Ronaldo (who was signed by Ole) and is now doing the same with Sancho (another Ole signing). A number of people within this fanbase seem to have forgotten that being a Manchester United manager also demands ruthlessness in order to edge closer to success and then to maintain that success if we can.

 

[Toshey]

Why did he sign for us then? Daft thing to do. Alexis Sanchez? I can do on and on. Mkhitaryan. Pogba. Zaha. Schneiderlin. Etc etc.

He signed for us because he was pushed into it. And he accomplished feck all with PSG, including getting knocked off CL from Ole's babies.
Alexis was shit for well over a year before he joined us and continued being mediocre in italian league after we got rid. The transfer never made sense.
Mikhitaryan was average for us, below average for Arsenal and I have no idea where he went after.
Pogba is very talanted player with lazy attitude and terrible personality. He had a role to fill and a world class France team and people actually overrated him because of that. What has he done with his career since leaving, remind me?
Zaha is just a glorified mid table player.
Schneiderlin looked good for Southampton, then never stepped up for United. And after he left, again no idea what happened to him, certainly didn't set the world on fire, did he?

The argument "players become worse in United and then perform excellent when they leave" is just stupid. Because it's absolutely false.

 

[Eleven-Eighteen]

How is this even a discussion. Ten Hag is incentivized to ensure United get results. If they don't he's out of a job. If a player is not helping him with that goal (as Sancho hasn't) then he's out, it's that simple. This isn't some personal vendetta against Sancho nor is it subtle racism as that England youth coach is implying. The only time the power dynamic can be in a player's favour is if it's a Messi vs Valverde type of situation.

SAF, Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti - none of the greats would've allowed this

 

[CassiusClaymore]

No. The underlying problems are his performance levels and attitude in training. He had already been dropped entirely from the squad prior to the public spat. He had already been dropped as a planned starter against spurs prior to the public spat. The assumption that without this public spat he’d be starting this weekend is not based on any factual evidence. There is nothing to suggest his training levels and attitude would have improved without the public incident - in fact his response on Twitter indicates they absolutely wouldn’t - he already believes he’s training at a high level.

Exactly this. He's so far away from being a starter at this club that it sadly makes no difference that he's been banished from training with the first team. Anyone siding with this clown over the manager needs to give their head a wobble.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

Surely not bothering to wake up or being consistently late is grounds for dismissal with no pay even at a football club.

 

[RuudTom83]

End of the day Sancho isn’t at the standard (which used to be) required at United.

 

[Oranges038]

That really proves f... all if Im being honest. And if he plays well I couldn't care less if he looks like Ronald McDonald for that matter. The point is he is not even playing so we cant really judge him. Personally I never liked him that much but it is unfair to bash a player without a string of games.

He's played about 80 odd games. I think that's enough.

 

[golden_blunder]

Greenwood played off the Right wing and had to be in the 100M bracket?

He said cost. I assumed he meant greenwood but he didn’t cost anything.
so presumably he means value not cost

 

[golden_blunder]

+Greenwood. It doesn't matter that he is academy product. He is also club's (high value) asset. And in today's market, before he did that shit, he was easily worth 70-80 mil euros. At least.

That’s value not cost

 

[djembatheking]

If he isn`t going to apologise he should be left in the reserves, Ten Hag has got a game against Brighton this weekend with a group of professionals that hopefully want to achieve something with their careers. Baby, big baby.

 

[golden_blunder]

An in form Greenwood is worth 90-100m so the math makes sense on a theoretical level.

As value yes, not cost. I’m being captain pedantic today

 

[Murder on Zidanes Floor]

Mate, stating a fact can in fact be a pop. Praise the manager all you want for his candor, but he had a pop at the player. Maybe that’s exactly what Sancho needed, but don’t deny that what actually happened didn’t actually happen.

I join you in condemning Sancho for being a massive disappointment — in another thread just an hour or two ago — but let’s not deny that ETH publicly took Sancho to the woodshed.

Woodshed?!

Crying out loud. I hate the right wing losers who claim everyone is a snowflake but perhaps they have a point.

 

[Berbasbullet]

As value yes, not cost. I’m being captain pedantic today

Cant believe you were captain pedantic and ignored "math".

 

[norm87cro]

He's played about 80 odd games. I think that's enough.

Not latley he hasnt

 

[pocco]

How is this even a discussion. Ten Hag is incentivized to ensure United get results. If they don't he's out of a job. If a player is not helping him with that goal (as Sancho hasn't) then he's out, it's that simple. This isn't some personal vendetta against Sancho nor is it subtle racism as that England youth coach is implying. The only time the power dynamic can be in a player's favour is if it's a Messi vs Valverde type of situation.

SAF, Pep, Mourinho, Ancelotti - none of the greats would've allowed this

From the great man himself...

"I would not criticise one of my own players publicly," Sir Alex remarked back in 2009. "When you make public criticism of your players, you damage morale."

 

[2cents]

From the great man himself...

He did it plenty of times.