How much of a chance will Erik give young players here?

[gaffs]

Pellestri wont start on Saturday. I can see Ten Hag pushing Bruno wide.

 

[Bastian]

Surely Mejbri gets to keep proving his case. Eriksen was delightful in possession in the opening 17 minutes but if you want to dominate teams and press them in the final third he simply cannot play. McTominay is obviously not a starter.

Play him. And give Pellistri a chance. There are too many players at United who don't give a shit or have been infected by the cultural malaise. Erik needs to reward hunger and bravery.

 

[Sylar]

Honestly think pellestri will only get a run if he scores a match winner in his limited time, similar to garnacho v Fulham

 

[Cassidy]

Honestly think pellestri will only get a run if he scores a match winner in his limited time, similar to garnacho v Fulham

Maybe Pellestri is shit

 

[Bastian]

Maybe Pellestri is shit

That's what Mitten was trying to convey, that they are worried about his "shooting". But we have seen his cameos, he is selected to start for Uruguay. You simply don't know how a young player will take to it until you give him a chance.

If he's shit Erik would hardly have blocked a loan move (the lad wants to keep developing, he's not happy to feck up his career) and likely sweetening that decision by getting him on an improved deal.

 

[Sylar]

Maybe Pellestri is shit

Maybe?

Then that begs the question, why is he even given five minutes? What is the point of bringing him on? What's the point of having him on the bench?

It just then makes his comments about pellestri unnecessary

 

[Cassidy]

Maybe?

Then that begs the question, why is he even given five minutes? What is the point of bringing him on? What's the point of having him on the bench?

It just then makes his comments about pellestri unnecessary

What are the other options?

 

[Sylar]

What are the other options?

Considering he started Bruno, he could have kept him there and brought on Maguire or Evans as CB instead.

If Eth really thinks pellestri is shit, he has other options given he he has no issues playing senior players out of position

 

[Cassidy]

Considering he started Bruno, he could have kept him there and brought on Maguire or Evans as CB instead.

If Eth really thinks pellestri is shit, he has other options given he he has no issues playing senior players out of position

So he should have brought on a defender to try and score.. ok

He quite obviously does not rate him highly else he would have played more.

Also when he started last season in Europa he was crap

 

[Sylar]

So he should have brought on a defender to try and score.. ok

No, he should have brought on a CB to play cb instead of putting Bruno at CB. That would have left Bruno out right instead of pellestri.

That's the logic based on your argument that "maybe he is shit"

Why bring on somebody "shit" to move your most creative player to CB?
You see where this is going?

 

[Roboc7]

Problem is he is going to start worrying about the sack which will mean more reliance on people like Mctominay and even more reluctance to give young players a chance. Of course relying on the same dross will lead to him getting the sack but it’s what managers inevitably do.

 

[Cassidy]

No, he should have brought on a CB to play cb instead of putting Bruno at CB. That would have left Bruno out right instead of pellestri.

That's the logic based on your argument that "maybe he is shit"

Why bring on somebody "shit" to move your most creative player to CB?
You see where this is going?

No because quite clearly he is sacrificing defending and Bruno can create from deep

I guess the alternative is he believes Pellestri is a very good player but just refuses to give him more than 5 mins because well,

 

[Cassidy]

Problem is he is going to start worrying about the sack which will mean more reliance on people like Mctominay and even more reluctance to give young players a chance. Of course relying on the same dross will lead to him getting the sack but it’s what managers inevitably do.

Aside from Pellestri. Which young players do you think he needs to be giving a chance? That he isn’t?

 

[Devil81]

Now the rot has set he's unlikely to try and take any risks.

Pellestri should have started today. It's incredible he only got 10 minutes.

 

[Sylar]

No because quite clearly he is sacrificing defending and Bruno can create from deep

I guess the alternative is he believes Pellestri is a very good player but just refuses to give him more than 5 mins because well,

So from that logic the choice is
Have a competent CB at CB for five minutes and keep Bruno closer to their goal
Or
Have Bruno deeper at cb and play a shit player out wide for five minutes?

That is Basically what it's summed up as right?

 

[Cassidy]

So from that logic the choice is
Have a competent CB at CB for five minutes and keep Bruno closer to their goal
Or
Have Bruno deeper at cb and play a shit player out wide for five minutes?

That is Basically what it's summed up as right?

Correct

 

[gaffs]

Feels to me that ETH does not trust young players, certainly not the ones he has not signed.

Why change to the 442 diamond against Brighton?

It seems like he would rather change formation and put players into a system that they have not played before than put Garnacho or Pellistri into the right forward role.

 

[Hughie77]

He might as well play all of them, because it seems the current squad are dropping like flies..

 

[Rozay]

Long way to go to see what level they end up at, but theoretically - I’d be chuffed if we managed to get a top midfield 3 out of Mainoo, Gore and Hannibal. Our class of 23, so to speak.

The rest of our midfielders are all 30+ and Mount is Mount so who knows? All are highly promising but most importantly have the right attributes as players. All very comfortable handling the ball, and can look after themselves. I think if we get this right, there’s a slim chance all 3 could make the grade.

 

[foolsgold]

Long way to go to see what level they end up at, but theoretically - I’d be chuffed if we managed to get a top midfield 3 out of Mainoo, Gore and Hannibal. Our class of 23, so to speak.

The rest of our midfielders are all 30+ and Mount is Mount so who knows? All are highly promising but most importantly have the right attributes as players. All very comfortable handling the ball, and can look after themselves. I think if we get this right, there’s a slim chance all 3 could make the grade.

If we get one out of three as an established first team player here we'll have done great. The step up, even now is enormous.

 

[The Mitcher]

No because quite clearly he is sacrificing defending and Bruno can create from deep

I guess the alternative is he believes Pellestri is a very good player but just refuses to give him more than 5 mins because well,

How can Bruno create from cb?

 

[Bastian]

Long-term this is still my concern. Thought getting Reguilon instead of going with Alvaro Fernandez was disappointing. Now seeing Mejbri on his way out is very disappointing. Mainoo and Garnacho are obviously too good to ignore, but I think he lacks trust in young players.

 

[The Mitcher]

Long-term this is still my concern. Thought getting Reguilon instead of going with Alvaro Fernandez was disappointing. Now seeing Mejbri on his way out is very disappointing. Mainoo and Garnacho are obviously too good to ignore, but I think he lacks trust in young players.

There was a quote saying he won't play youth unless they have world class potential.

 

[renatosanches85]

There was a quote saying he won't play youth unless they have world class potential.

I don’t see the problem with this to be honest. Fernandez to me doesn’t seem to be world class potential, nor the likes of Garner, Laird etc who people on here were whinging about is selling. He is starting Mainoo, he has world class potential. Why would he put in players who ultimately won’t be good enough to take the team to the level they aspire to reach?

 

[Red00012]

Long-term this is still my concern. Thought getting Reguilon instead of going with Alvaro Fernandez was disappointing. Now seeing Mejbri on his way out is very disappointing. Mainoo and Garnacho are obviously too good to ignore, but I think he lacks trust in young players.

Garnacho has excelled under ETH
Mainoo is going to be a Utd midfielder for years
Kambwala made his 1st team debut in a PL game.
Forson made his debut last Monday
Dan Gore made his PL debut a few weeks back .
Holding on to a 3-2 lead v Villa one of the most in Form teams in the league he brings on Hannibal , Gore and Kambwala at the end.

but ok

 

[The Mitcher]

I don’t see the problem with this to be honest. Fernandez to me doesn’t seem to be world class potential, nor the likes of Garner, Laird etc who people on here were whinging about is selling. He is starting Mainoo, he has world class potential. Why would he put in players who ultimately won’t be good enough to take the team to the level they aspire to reach?

By that logic players like Wes Brown, O'Shea and Fletcher would have been sold because they weren't of world class potential. Though Fletcher was beginning to become a great player until his illness it has to be said.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He is only starting Mainoo because he has no choice. If Casemiro and Mount were fit, he'd only be seeing out games as a sub for 5 minutes

 

[mintyred]

He is only starting Mainoo because he has no choice. If Casemiro and Mount were fit, he'd only be seeing out games as a sub for 5 minutes

It was clear he rated him in pre-season before he got injured, but there is no doubt that's been a factor. ETH said he wants instant success and players who can do it now, so he won't rely on youth too much.

 

[lsd]

There was a quote saying he won't play youth unless they have world class potential.

Yet he will spend 90 million on a winger with no potential

 

[GMoore23]

By that logic players like Wes Brown, O'Shea and Fletcher would have been sold because they weren't of world class potential. Though Fletcher was beginning to become a great player until his illness it has to be said.

Wes Brown had world class potential.

He was an amazing talent but severe injury prevented him from realising his full potential.

 

[Pexbo]

He is only starting Mainoo because he has no choice. If Casemiro and Mount were fit, he'd only be seeing out games as a sub for 5 minutes

Hard disagree. He clearly rates him.

 

[Stadjer]

It was clear he rated him in pre-season before he got injured, but there is no doubt that's been a factor. ETH said he wants instant success and players who can do it now, so he won't rely on youth too much.

Ofcourse he wants instant success. Look at this forum and media when he isnt winning. He needs to have instant success just to keep his job and cant really afford to give chances to young players that will make mistakes.

 

[VP89]

He is only starting Mainoo because he has no choice. If Casemiro and Mount were fit, he'd only be seeing out games as a sub for 5 minutes

Why are you saying this? He said he wanted to bring him in the fold since last spring but Mainoo got injured. He played him in the bigger pre-season games too vs Arsenal and Real. The minute Mainoo got fully fit he was in the match day squad.

 

[Cassidy]

He is only starting Mainoo because he has no choice. If Casemiro and Mount were fit, he'd only be seeing out games as a sub for 5 minutes

He quite obviously planned to play Mainoo this season. You have to have an agenda to not see that

 

[mu4c_20le]

Why are you saying this? He said he wanted to bring him in the fold since last spring but Mainoo got injured. He played him in the bigger pre-season games too vs Arsenal and Real. The minute Mainoo got fully fit he was in the match day squad.

Mainoo got his chance when Bruno was suspended after the Bournemouth horror show, a game where he never got off the bench. I believe ETH was going to slowly integrate him, but not start him immediately, especially when his seniors are fit and available.

 

[VP89]

Mainoo got his chance when Bruno was suspended after the Bournemouth horror show, a game where he never got off the bench. I believe ETH was going to slowly integrate him, but not start him immediately, especially when his seniors are fit and available.

Given ETH said he wanted to integrate him since last spring I don't think there's a lot of basis for that.

 

[mintyred]

Ofcourse he wants instant success. Look at this forum and media when he isnt winning. He needs to have instant success just to keep his job and cant really afford to give chances to young players that will make mistakes.

Ironically if you play young players people tend to be more lenient. If you buy the finished article and you're mid-table then people will come for your head.

 

[renatosanches85]

By that logic players like Wes Brown, O'Shea and Fletcher would have been sold because they weren't of world class potential. Though Fletcher was beginning to become a great player until his illness it has to be said.

I suppose there are two things to look at here. When you are a team winning trophies regularly and constantly challenging for the biggest trophies you can afford to try out a few youngsters in certain games who may not make it at the club, such as Eagles, Chadwick etc. It’s harder to do so when the team is struggling over a long period of time. Secondly, Brown and Fletcher had world class potential, O’Shea did at one point also. Ultimately they didn’t make it to that level but they had the ability to play for a world class football team. Fernandez, Garner, Laird, Meija do not.

 

[Lux Thunder]

Long-term this is still my concern. Thought getting Reguilon instead of going with Alvaro Fernandez was disappointing. Now seeing Mejbri on his way out is very disappointing. Mainoo and Garnacho are obviously too good to ignore, but I think he lacks trust in young players.

Personally, don’t get that Hannibal praise at all, he never did stand out in my eyes. Neither he did anything significant on his loan out to approve he deserves a chance in our first team, in comparison to Amad and his time at Sunderland.

Work rate, aggression, ok I get it - but you have to offer a lot more in terms of actual ability to be considered as a genuine prospect for a first team at a top club as Manchester United should be.

A lot more disappointing for me was letting Angel Gomes go, I think that a coach like ETH would appreciate his technical ability.

 

[Bastian]

• Amad Diallo: Total matches/minutes: 12/469. 2 goals, 1 assist. 9 Premier league appearances, 387 minutes. 3 FA Cup appearances, 82 minutes.
• Hannibal Mejbri: Total matches/minutes: 10/327. 1 goal, 3 assists. 5 Premier league appearance, 130 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 61 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 1 minute. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 136 minutes.
• Alvaro Fernandez: Went on loan and got sold for 5.1m.
• Kobbie Mainoo: Total matches/minutes: 35/2629. 5 goals, 3 assists. 24 Premier league appearances, 1940 minutes. 2 CL appearances, 42 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 422 minutes.
• Alejandro Garnacho: Total matches/minutes: 50/3574. 10 goals, 5 assists. 36 Premier league appearances, 2576 minutes. 6 CL appearances, 300 minutes. 6 FA Cup appearances, 543 minutes. 2 EFL Cup appearances, 155 minutes.
• Willy Kambwala: Total matches/minutes: 10/341. 1 assist. 8 Premier League appearances, 326 minutes. 2 FA Cup appearances, 15 minutes.
• Facundo Pellistri: Total matches/minutes: 12/366. 9 Premier League appearances, 165 minutes. 3 CL appearances, 108 minutes. 1 FA Cup appearance, 3 minutes. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 90 minutes.
• Daniel Gore: Total matches/minutes: 2/30. 1 Premier League appearance, 1 minute. 1 EFL Cup appearance, 29 minutes.

I'm not sure if ETH is due any special praise for bringing through Mainoo. He is a generational talent and I'm sure the whole academy staff were well aware of how good he was. Erik did say at the end of the summer transfer window when he first joined that if we couldn't sign a FDJ profile, we'd have to make one. At the time I was thinking of Zidane Iqbal, but Mainoo is the one. And I don't think he was made, I think he was there, developing already. They've done a good job in not introducing him too early (i.e. too much last season) but he's also had a couple of injuries to contend with. With Garnacho he went from 34 appearances, last season, and 1242 minutes, to 50 appearances and almost triple the amount of minutes. I remember early in the season people were doubting him (first two games) and that his decision making was awful (still a work in progress) but he's been one of our best players and certainly the most dangerous attacker we have.

Amad's development has been completely neglected and I think Erik has been hiding behind his injuries this season, when in reality Amad could have played a lot more football. And he showed at the tail end of the season that he was a dangerous attacker, who could also help in keeping possession.

Alvaro Fernandez is another situation that's a bit perplexing, especially as we went for an expensive loan signing in Reguilon to cover the injury to Malacia (and then Shaw too), but let him go in January counting on Shaw and Malacia both returning to full fitness. Loaning out Fernandez was only compounded by selling him for a meagre 5m. First he went on a failed loan to Granada, but then shipped out on loan again to Benfica (more than two weeks after terminating Reguilon's loan). Fans of Benfica seem quite surprised at getting such a talented young player on the cheap.

Pellistri wanted to go out on loan in order to continue his development but got nothing close to what he must have expected and then shipped out at the end of the January window on loan to a struggling Granada, who finished bottom of La Liga.

Hannibal Mejbri in my view could have quite obviously been utilised this season in the prolonged absence of Mason Mount and to provide energy when Mainoo was subbed, which always resulted in the team dropping down a level. It seems it was another disastrous loan where the coach had a spat with him (or a teammate) early on and he only played 6 times for Sevilla, getting 100 minutes in total.

This makes me not only question ETH's bravery in fielding youngsters but also the competence of our loan manager and the staff who oversee loans for players at a very delicate phase in their footballing development.

Like I said in the OP at the start of the season, it's not just about "good enough, old enough" but if you keep seeing underperforming players play ahead of someone who might show the required hunger and drive to take their chance and elevate the team performance, which I'd argue we saw with Amad at the end of the season, with Garnacho and Mainoo for the whole season though they of course played too much too, because the alternatives were levels below. Which is another way of looking at their registered minutes.

Kambwala may not turn out to be good enough, it is too early to judge him, but he did have the special situation of being an actual centre back when we were without a single fully fit senior centre back and played a likely not fit enough Casemiro there alongside a definitely not fit enough Evans.

Harry Amass, despite his tender age, might also have seen some minutes given we had no left back from January onwards.

All in all I think Erik lacks courage in playing young players. If they are not working hard enough tracking back or pressing, I completely understand it. But I think it's more a reluctance on his part to gamble. And if you've got a shite hand, why would you not.

If he stays next season I hope he will be told to bring more youngsters through here and there - I'd treat the Europa League like the EFL Cup, but I'm in the minority here - and if another manager comes in I hope it is someone with a track record of unearthing youngsters and putting them into the team and developing them.