Hamas wanted this to happen and they got it. Now they can show the wounded and dead civilians they're hiding behind and prepare for urban warfare.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I hear that photos of beheaded Israeli officers and little kids filmed inside cages with laughter by Hamas men in the background are doing the rounds on TikTok and Facebook.
Maybe Gaza will get flattened after all... this is a humiliation never seen before here.
Speaking from what I'm currently seeing and feeling around me, the Israeli public is utterly, utterly deflated, and the consensus is that "we're not doing anything at all".
My best friend is over there, in one of the elite units of the IDF. could easily been him beheaded. might happen to him, who knows.
logically, thinking about it with sense, I really really get the sentiment that most of you seem to hold. The oppression and occupation are batshit crazy, and Israel should have seen it coming / shouldn't be surprised it has finally happened to them.
killings of Palestinians indeed have been normalized (is that the right term?) throughout the years.
I can tell you firsthand that when there's yet another small, tiny mention of it in the news I, and many others, would be like "oh ffs, not again", but then you move on. especially if you live far away from confrontation zones. It's just something that happens since you were born. You hope that nobody you personally know will be affected by the 'conflict'.
I'm not even talking about those who are happy when Palestinians die, or refuse to use the term (Palestinian) because "there's no such nation/folk". These types of people used to never be in the Parliament or have a tiny representation in it. Now they run the government.
so this is me speaking as logically as I can.
But on an emotional level I'm so angry, so helpless. I'm mad at myself for keep being active in this thread. A part of me wants to hate most of you for your stances even though I bet you're good people, and I would hold the same views had I been a European.
I think the crux of it all is that Hammas, finally, has managed to make the average Israeli citizen feel what the people in Gaza/West Bank feel daily. The sheer helplessness. The uncontrollable anger that you're not sure who to direct it at. The fear of being slaughtered later during the week.
They obviously have it much much worse, they live in a cage. but they made us, me at least, taste the essence of their existence.
It's unbelievable. nothing can prepare you for such feelings.
Maybe Gaza will get flattened after all... this is a humiliation never seen before here.
Speaking from what I'm currently seeing and feeling around me, the Israeli public is utterly, utterly deflated, and the consensus is that "we're not doing anything at all".
My best friend is over there, in one of the elite units of the IDF. could easily been him beheaded. might happen to him, who knows.
logically, thinking about it with sense, I really really get the sentiment that most of you seem to hold. The oppression and occupation are batshit crazy, and Israel should have seen it coming / shouldn't be surprised it has finally happened to them.
killings of Palestinians indeed have been normalized (is that the right term?) throughout the years.
I can tell you firsthand that when there's yet another small, tiny mention of it in the news I, and many others, would be like "oh ffs, not again", but then you move on. especially if you live far away from confrontation zones. It's just something that happens since you were born. You hope that nobody you personally know will be affected by the 'conflict'.
I'm not even talking about those who are happy when Palestinians die, or refuse to use the term (Palestinian) because "there's no such nation/folk". These types of people used to never be in the Parliament or have a tiny representation in it. Now they run the government.
so this is me speaking as logically as I can.
But on an emotional level I'm so angry, so helpless. I'm mad at myself for keep being active in this thread. A part of me wants to hate most of you for your stances even though I bet you're good people, and I would hold the same views had I been a European.
I think the crux of it all is that Hammas, finally, has managed to make the average Israeli citizen feel what the people in Gaza/West Bank feel daily. The sheer helplessness. The uncontrollable anger that you're not sure who to direct it at. The fear of being slaughtered later during the week.
They obviously have it much much worse, they live in a cage. but they made us, me at least, taste the essence of their existence.
It's unbelievable. nothing can prepare you for such feelings.
By increasing the hate filled rhetoric and the levels of oppression the recently elected far right Israeli govt and their people got what they wanted...and they have their own dead to show off....
It's folly to think AIPAC don't have a greater influence influence over American politics than other religious minority groups, and groups funded/run by the Israel government having it over others like in the UK. AIPAC are just like the energy, pharma etc lobby, they pump tons of money into politics to have an influence over decisions and policies.
An incredibly strong post and I hope you stay safe.
Your comments are very powerful and strike a chord
No doubt. I can't fathom how anyone can think Hamas had "no choice" but to go on a murderous rampage of Israeli civilians. If they cared about Palestinian lives, which they clearly don't, they'd never make this choice.
52nd of 401st, usually active in the north. Could actually be 5th gen, I’m not able to tell the difference. Would make sense if it is, after the failure of the earlier models yesterday. It will be interesting to see if Israeli tank platoon design is vulnerable to the new tactics seen in Ukraine.
(ps. I love how these videos talk about large deployments and then show like 2 platoons instead of speeding up the clip to show a large deployment)
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Undergirded?!
I’ve no doubt it’s a word, but…. Undergirded?
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2 state solution is dead and dusted. At this point, its Hamas or Israel, and I think we know how that one will end.
Ah, what a dickhead
You’ve never heard that?
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Do you mean Israel will go all the way to the end in destroying Hamas? Would they risk losing many Israeli soldier lives over this?
I’d love to see Friedman’s plan for how to accomplish that.
Platituders gonna platitude.
Yes. They will likely not only destroy Hamas, they will probably militarily occupy Gaza going forward to make sure no Hamas replacement can germinate.
Oh dear.
Pentagon to send ships, aircraft closer to Israel in show of force
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/08/pentagon-ships-aircraft-israel-hamas-00120523
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/10/08/pentagon-ships-aircraft-israel-hamas-00120523
The bolded parts show you up. I know what you're trying to say, and I agree that people should be careful about anti Jewish tropes. I've been there myself in my younger days, understandably so since I've been horrifically discriminated against by zionist Jews my whole life. The problem is with zionists, and not Jews, that's the distinction. Zionism is an evil, supremacist and colonial movement that has devastated the middle east, and took the Jewry of the world hostage, through myth and propaganda. The zionist's effort to equate between anti zionism and anti semitism should be ridiculed.
Zionist influence on US media is hardly controversial. It should be pointed out and fought. Being afraid of seeming antisemitic to the point you play blind is unhealthy. That's not true left.
Weird how life goes, eh? Israel, by some accounts, helped create Hamas?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
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Show me up for what exactly?
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What exactly is that supposed to accomplish?
Probably a show of force in case any other regional actors, including Hezbollah get any ideas.
How? They’re basically trapped there?
Seems as pointless as the aid that is supposedly going Israel's way. The USA are not going to hit Lebanon with a naval bombardment. Israel does not need extra weapons or military support within the region, they are the undisputed hegemon.
Guess it guarantees an Israel victory
Given the events of the past 36 hours, one can't be too cautious. The Israelis will be all tied up with a ground war in Gaza, so the likes of Hezbollah or Assad would have plenty of chances to advance their respective objectives in the north or in the Golan.
This will have an expiry date. the US fecked off from Iraq eventually and look what happened.
No one is going to destroy Hamas because Bibi doesn't want that. Also, it's well talked about (not on official channels) that there is an entire underground city in Gaza that you can't really penetrate with, quote on quote on quote, acceptable bombs one uses in wars.
Israel is not going to use one of those bombs whose name I'm not sure of (MOAB?).
They will stretch the limit of what the international community sees as a measured response, and nothing more.
This in and of itself means tens/hundreds of thousands dead in Gaza. kids, women, the lot.
If Israel had chosen to not play by the rules so to speak, all of the prisoners of Hamas that are in Israeli jails would have been executed in 10 seconds, for starters.
And also, Israel can't deal with Hezbollah coming into this war. can hardly handle a ground invasion of Gaza.
the firepower from Lebanon will bring this already wounded and demoralized country to its knees.
Hamas is going to win this one big time.
Imagine the fear right now for the people living in gaza that they could be dead any minute. Missiles striking everywhere. Horrible.
Yes, they did, but so did Israel's current government too. Now they have the excuse they have wanted to go all out 'in defence' after the horrific attacks.
I would like to add that I've seen numerous posts from you, it's very clear what side of the fence you sit, and you often completely ignore any retort to your posts. It almost looks like a hit and run troll job.
That's the thing though, as I said above, Israel aren't surprised. Many citizens won't be but the government certainly won't be either. You have got those who said this was coming and then you have those that engineered it through their handling of the situation. It's a no win situation for the Palestinians as ultimately they will yet again lose out. Unfortunately many with their lives and homes. Sadly many innocent Jews and other people will too.
But what was the answer?
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Just look at the one sided losses of life and look at the continued loss of land. It's ethnic cleaning over a sustained period of time. It also doesn't show the stats of daily beatings, false arrests, rapes and persecution of people just trying to go about their daily lives. The restrictions placed upon normal Palestinians is insane and the treatment of them is barbaric.
I'm not defending HAMAS or what they did yesterday as it was vile, inhumane and lots.of innocent people suffered horrifically. But, nobody can be surprised that it happened as what other choice were they left with? Land keeps getting stolen and the disgusting treatment of their people continued on land they call home.
A two state system could only possibly have worked decades ago but not in recent times. The world continues to turn and countries send aid to either or both, but nobody has offered a solution that is acceptable to both parties, and that's because I honestly don't think there is one.
I feel for the people involved and think the horrors have only just started, and this is going to get a lot worse. I can see Israel finally taking much larger areas of land now and ultimately yet again the Palestinians will be made to suffer even more and yet again tens of thousands of people will lose their lives because of this.
I don't have the answers,.I wish I did, but I will say that I was sickened by the attacks yesterday and am sickened to see what's going on today. However, i'm also deeply sickened and saddened at the huge pro Israel and stand with Israel campaign that's being pounced on now. I cannot take anyone seriously who thinks this way. To not have any understanding of why this is happening or having no empathy for the Palestinians is simply beyond ignorant IMHO.
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What are we gonna do? Bomb Lebanon?