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Mike Smalling

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berbatrick said:
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Those volunteer workers are remarkable people. Whether they are handing out food or treating the wounded, they are putting their lives at risk. The IDF kill indiscriminately and with impunity - I have no clue how they are able to do their work.
 

Amir

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Going back time and time again may well be Netanyahu's plan to drag this along forever.

There have been very recent reports that the IDF chief of staff complained that the lack of any real govenment plan about "the day after" In Gaza which is causing this repetitiveness.
 

Idxomer

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Amir said:
Going back time and time again may well be Netanyahu's plan to drag this along forever.

There have been very recent reports that the IDF chief of staff complained that the lack of any real govenment plan about "the day after" In Gaza which is causing this repetitiveness.
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The intent is both endless war and destruction, and that's what we're seeing happen on the ground.
 

Smores

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Amir said:
Going back time and time again may well be Netanyahu's plan to drag this along forever.

There have been very recent reports that the IDF chief of staff complained that the lack of any real govenment plan about "the day after" In Gaza which is causing this repetitiveness.
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It seems that way from the outside, with a wider full scale escalation if possible.It also seems like total victory is a slogan to kill those who might resist, so former civilians now resisting after having their family murdered also needs to be murdered just in case.

I don't expect the IDF or Netanyahu to make any distinction between those who previously conducted terrorism and resisting Gazans. It is however telling how the western narrative doesn't allow for the idea of Gazans bearing arms in resistance, contrast that with Ukraine.
 

Amir

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Smores said:
It seems that way from the outside, with a wider full scale escalation if possible.It also seems like total victory is a slogan to kill those who might resist, so former civilians now resisting after having their family murdered also needs to be murdered just in case.
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Total Victory is a slogan designed for the Israeli public, created by Netanyahu's advisors. I don't think those people were thinking about anything other than getting his voters backs.
 

Real Name

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Amir said:
Total Victory is a slogan designed for the Israeli public, created by Netanyahu's advisors. I don't think those people were thinking about anything other than getting his voters backs.
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How much would change if Netanyahu would lose the elections?
I mean, the problem is the whole atmosphere in Isreal seem to be bad and aimed at not caring what happens to Palestinians. Lot of it was created and pumped by Netanyahu but its nothing new and we seem tobe as far from the solution as ever.

Is the aim of the whole thing to start building settlements in Gaza?
 

Amir

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Real Name said:
How much would change if Netanyahu would lose the elections?
I mean, the problem is the whole atmosphere in Isreal seem to be bad and aimed at not caring what happens to Palestinians. Lot of it was created and pumped by Netanyahu but its nothing new and we seem tobe as far from the solution as ever.
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Well, the short lived Bennett-led govenment didn't make a 180 change when it came to the Palestenians, but at least some of its members met with Abbas and it also allow more people from Gaza to come and work in Israel. I know it wasn't much, but it was a start. I don't know where it would have led had that govenment survived for more than a year.

It will be far harder after October 7, but at least a new PM would be able to make decisions not based on his trial, his fear of losing his role and he won't be blackmailed by the far-right. You have to start somewhere and getting Netanyahu out of office and Smotricha and Ben Gvir out of the government would be a big, positive step towards some sort of normality.

Real Name said:
Is the aim of the whole thing to start building settlements in Gaza?
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The far-right would love that, but I don't think that's on the cards at all.
 

Idxomer

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Gallant has gone publicly against Netanyahu today rejecting either an Israeli military or civilian rule in Gaza.
 

Idxomer

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2/ Netanyahu appears to have devoted himself to the political survival of his government. This entails keeping his religious supporters happy. They want two things: the first is "facilitating" the removal of as many Palestinians as possible from Gaza, dead or alive.

3/ The second is an Israeli occupation of Gaza. This is supposedly for the sake of enhancing Israeli security. Ultimately it is for the sake of settling in Gaza and making it a stornghold and a model for the Jewish state they envision- racist and lethal against Non-Jews.

4/ Galant has not become the savior of the Palestinians or of a free, equal Israel. Galant is a former senior general. He has been working with Americans closely his whole life. He is watching his life's work crumble to dust before his eyes. He wants to do down fighting.

5/ This is a political battle. Netanyahu hopes for his political survival which is linked to his personal survival. As long as he is PM, he will likely avoid prison. As long as there is a war, he will remain PM. Galant is the IDF's man. The IDF is dependent on the US.

6/ Their political interests and power bases have become contradictory. They can no longer sustain each other. But what does this say about Israel at this moment? Israel is imploding. There is consensual suppor for the "war", but the state itself is disintegrating.

7/ There is no government, just competing warlords. There is no strategy, just power grabs and fires lit. The horror is that the collective id quickly rising to drown the collectice ego is all parts Jewish supremacy, reluctant or feverish.

8/ This supremacy generates a murderous, languorous indifference to the lives and deaths of Palestinians that, in turn, is sustaining a genocide. This genocide is not Israel's destiny. This genocide is Israel's dance of death.

Interesting thread .
 

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Raoul

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Idxomer said:

2/ Netanyahu appears to have devoted himself to the political survival of his government. This entails keeping his religious supporters happy. They want two things: the first is "facilitating" the removal of as many Palestinians as possible from Gaza, dead or alive.

3/ The second is an Israeli occupation of Gaza. This is supposedly for the sake of enhancing Israeli security. Ultimately it is for the sake of settling in Gaza and making it a stornghold and a model for the Jewish state they envision- racist and lethal against Non-Jews.

4/ Galant has not become the savior of the Palestinians or of a free, equal Israel. Galant is a former senior general. He has been working with Americans closely his whole life. He is watching his life's work crumble to dust before his eyes. He wants to do down fighting.

5/ This is a political battle. Netanyahu hopes for his political survival which is linked to his personal survival. As long as he is PM, he will likely avoid prison. As long as there is a war, he will remain PM. Galant is the IDF's man. The IDF is dependent on the US.

6/ Their political interests and power bases have become contradictory. They can no longer sustain each other. But what does this say about Israel at this moment? Israel is imploding. There is consensual suppor for the "war", but the state itself is disintegrating.

7/ There is no government, just competing warlords. There is no strategy, just power grabs and fires lit. The horror is that the collective id quickly rising to drown the collectice ego is all parts Jewish supremacy, reluctant or feverish.

8/ This supremacy generates a murderous, languorous indifference to the lives and deaths of Palestinians that, in turn, is sustaining a genocide. This genocide is not Israel's destiny. This genocide is Israel's dance of death.

Interesting thread .
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That is a good thread. Netanyahu is clearly prolonging all of this to avoid having to deal with his inevitable legal case after the war is over. In either case, this is his last stand as a politician and possibly as a free man.
 

Amir

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Raoul said:
That is a good thread. Netanyahu is clearly prolonging all of this to avoid having to deal with his inevitable legal case after the war is over. In either case, this is his last stand as a politician and possibly as a free man.
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His legal case is still ongoing despite the war. In fact, he's supposed to take the stand in the not so distant future.

I've got no idea what his endgame is. Actually, I'm pretty sure there is no endgame. Just to keep his role and let chaos rule - in hope something positive for him eventually happens.
 

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Amir said:
His legal case is still ongoing despite the war. In fact, he's supposed to take the stand in the not so distant future.

I've got no idea what his endgame is. Actually, I'm pretty sure there is no endgame. Just to keep his role and let chaos rule - in hope something positive for him eventually happens.
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Is there really a chance that Bibi goes to prison? He seems quite loved by most in Israel.
 

Amir

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Nani Nana said:
Is there really a chance that Bibi goes to prison? He seems quite loved by most in Israel.
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Well, being loved and being innocent or being found innocent are two different things.

Having said that, I don't believe he'll eventually go to prison as his investigation and now trial have been going on for quite a few years - and it's not about to end any time soon (and then we'll probably have appeals). Also, there's a lot of speculation about his health problems. Even if he's found guilty and is sentenced to jail, who knows when that will happen and what the situation and his condition will be at the time.

As for being loved - there's a faction of people who are completely devoted to him, but it's hardly a majority. There are also people who support his party not out of love to him but because that's what they are used to doing. His coalition partners just use him for their benefit (budgets for their sectors, etc).
 

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Amir said:
Well, being loved and being innocent or being found innocent are two different things.

Having said that, I don't believe he'll eventually go to prison as his investigation and now trial have been going on for quite a few years - and it's not about to end any time soon (and then we'll probably have appeals). Also, there's a lot of speculation about his health problems. Even if he's found guilty and is sentenced to jail, who knows when that will happen and what the situation and his condition will be at the time.

As for being loved - there's a faction of people who are completely devoted to him, but it's hardly a majority. There are also people who support his party not out of love to him but because that's what they are used to doing. His coalition partners just use him for their benefit (budgets for their sectors, etc).
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Thanks
 

berbatrick

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I'm actually really surprised. It must be *grim* in there if a former AIPAC staffer says this publicly.
 

VorZakone

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berbatrick said:


I'm actually really surprised. It must be *grim* in there if a former AIPAC staffer says this publicly.
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Wow.

Lily Greenberg Call, a special assistant to the chief of staff in the Interior Department, accused President Joe Biden of using Jews to justify U.S. policy in the conflict.
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4bars

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Oh so Biden is using jews and not the other way around? Or more accurate, they using each other? basically partners on genocide.
 

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From Wiki:

Pappé was born in Haifa, Israel.[1] Prior to coming to the United Kingdom, he was a senior lecturer in political science at the University of Haifa (1984–2007) and chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian and Israeli Studies in Haifa (2000–2008).[2] He is the author of Ten Myths About Israel (2017), The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine(2006), The Modern Middle East (2005), A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples (2003), and Britain and the Arab-Israeli Conflict (1988).[3] He was also a leading member of the Israeli political party Hadash,[4] and was a candidate on the party list in the 1996[5] and 1999[6] Israeli legislative elections.

Pappé is one of Israel's New Historians; he has, since the release of pertinent British and Israeli government documents in the early 1980s, offered an unconventional view of Israel's establishment in 1948and the corresponding exodus of 700,000 Palestinian Arabs from the land. He has written that the expulsions were not decided on an ad hoc basis, as other historians have argued, but constituted a planned ethnic cleansing in accordance with Plan Dalet, which was drawn up in 1947 by Israel's future leaders.[7] In a 2004 interview, Pappé said "The aim has always been, and it still remains, to have as much of Palestine as possible with as few Palestinians in it as possible."[8] He has blamed Israel's existence for the lack of peace in the Middle East, arguing that Zionism is more dangerous than Islamic militancy, and has called for an international boycott of Israeli academics.[9][10]

With regard to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, Pappé supports the one-state solution, envisaging a unitary state for both Palestinians and Israelis.[11] He left Israel in 2008 after being condemned in the Knesset. A minister of education had called for him to be sacked, his photograph had appeared in a newspaper at the centre of a target, and he had received several death threats.[QUOTE/]
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He has a pretty substential bibliography. I have (and partly read) his and Chomsky’s book “On Palestine”, a collection of conversations, articles and esseys on the subject (published some 10 years ago).
 
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Idxomer

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Smores said:
No idea who that guy is to know whether he's had a dubious history but I assume this is a general issue that the US and others are still trusting Israeli intelligence unequivocally.
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His dubious history is being one of the biggest Jewish anti-zionists with an Israeli passport.
 

2mufc0

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Smores said:
No idea who that guy is to know whether he's had a dubious history but I assume this is a general issue that the US and others are still trusting Israeli intelligence unequivocally.
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He's a well known and credible historian on the conflict, because he's highly critical of the Israeli state (for good reason) it looks like he's being targeted here.
 

Pav1878

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Smores said:
No idea who that guy is to know whether he's had a dubious history but I assume this is a general issue that the US and others are still trusting Israeli intelligence unequivocally.
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Ilan Pappe is a legend. A scholar on Israel Palestine and he speaks the truth as he has seen it from within.
Do take a deep dive into his work.
Ilan Pappe, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, Gabor Mate all Jewish and all anti Israel/anti apartheid/anti genocide.
 
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