Sorry I didn't write it clear enough, I agree with this part, while not changing the facts that would indeed have been a slightly better response.
I took issue with your further suggestion of faking an injury.
Erik ten Hag vs Sancho
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
I took issue with your further suggestion of faking an injury.
Exactly. Pep has 2 CLs and managed one of the best teams in the history of the sport. Ten Hag is just an Ajax manager, he hasn't made the step up yet. because we're the step.
Pep has proven time and again he is the number one manager in the world right now. Once you get to that level, it is hard for players to question your methods.
And that doesn't mean that Pep was right to call out Kelvin Phillips. What good comes from that? If he was not fully fit or overweight coming back to training, then im sure it gets sorted internally. Why publicly shame him?
For me, I don't think Ten Hag has earned the right to be calling out players individually in public, even if it is the truth.
This whole thing would have been better sorted out behind closed doors. The Beckham doc reminds us how Fergie would deal with business privately.
There is enough shit flying around about this club right now. Why would the manager add another thing to the mix?
I see why but I still guess it's common practice to cover up such stories without much fuss. I mean, last season there were quite some insider reports how demotivated Sané was in training sessions and it never really made the headlines. Imagine what would have happened if Nagelsmann exposed him like this.
I think he said something wrong. Still doesn't give Sancho the legitimacy to respond like this, even if the favoritism stuff is indeed true.
I won't pretend to be in the mind of the bald genius (ok, yes I will
), but it seems that for Pep there is a minimum baseline requirement of effort and caring for all of his players. On that account, Kalvin Phillips failed through his lack of discipline with his weight, and, depending on what you believe, Jadon Sancho might have failed as well. Once you have crossed that threshold though, Pep does seem to calibrate his public reproaches of players, depending on their temperament.When some of the more emotionally inclined players have struggled like Jesus, Zinchenko, Grealish and perhaps even Stones for that period when he was having personal issues, I can't recall him speaking too badly about them in public. On the other hand, players that are more resolute and established in the team, like KdB and Walker, can get the public criticism because he knows they can handle it and will respond well to it to the betterment of the team.
This is a tricky one because you have to strike the right balance on the way up in order to get the most out of the team. Pep was fortunate in that regard because he won everything from the outset and has therefore been imbued with a sense of gravitas for pretty much the entirety of his career, especially as he has continued winning. For someone like ETH, that respect has to be achieved through man management and force/**** of personality, belief from results on the pitch or authority conferred from the backing of a board that is deeply invested in the project of that particular manager to the point where they will allow him to get rid of players that do not fall in line. I'm not sure that ETH has the requisite level of any of those yet, so his path to gravitas is a bit more precarious.
But you didn't. All you have been trying to play is a devil's advocate without much argument. You say ETH also has to be blamed, for what? For saying a player should train harder everyday. Listen to his comments again, the media asked whether he was disciplined and he categorically said "No". So now you are saying a manager can't even say that.Going by your logic the replacement's feelings were hurt anyway because Ten Hag said he was nominated because of Sancho's training performance, right? How it is not better to praise the replacement's performances instead of criticizing Sancho's then? This way, he directed the attention on Sancho's shortcoming instead of Gore's (?) achievement.
Imagine you're in senior position without employee responsibility at your company and partake in a leadership seminar to qualify for a managing position. The instructor confronts you with the fictional scenario of having an unmotivated employee who recently got lots of stick, is under severe pressure, feels treated unfairly and now underperforms in a way that your department goals are at risk. You have to tell him how you would handle this scenario. Do you think "I would take away responsibility from him and if his clients ask why I just tell them thatI was disappointed with his performance" would be the correct answer?
I mean, I already explained it? If you disagree, fine, but repeating myself if a bit pointless then
How would it have helped the question by answering about Dan gore. So he was asked about sancno and scott Mctominay and he should have given his answer about Dan gore being a better trainer and being rewarded, well that seems more of an insult to sancho. And the same devil's advocate people would have said he threw sancho under the bus for saying dan gore is a better trainer than him.
If an employee is asked by his manager to work hard , what should the employee do. I know what a professional one will do, head down, work hard. And if he feels he is being undervalued and underappreciated then he should just have an honest one on one with the manager and say look thank you for your help but I feel my career will he better elsewhere and politely leave. Not send an email to the office group saying the manager is a liar.
What higher standards, he literally just said he wasn't selected due to training. You get that's why 100% of all players start or sit on the bench? I get it's United and everything is a story right now but this really is a non starter.
We, the fans, have seen Sancho be repeatedly poor and also want to play LW - and be just as poor there - it's very convenient he's now suggesting he can't get in due to favoritism on the RW when he wants to play LW but realizes he is behind Rashford AND Garnacho there. That's without all the added info about how he was at Dortmund, how well ETH treated him last year etc.
So ten hag should allow whatever player wants. Maybe he should have apologized to sancho and said maybe next time don't even train and you will be selected.
I had to double check to see if I was reading it correctly, because Pep calling Phillips overweight was the first to come into my mind.
Pretty sure Klopp has also questioned named players for their commitment.
No, you deal with it internally. Don't air your dirty laundry in public!
It's absolute drivel the stuff about Antony.
Sancho doesnt like the right wing. Has never played well on the right wing.
He wants to play on the left.
Sancho doesnt like the right wing. Has never played well on the right wing.
He wants to play on the left.
I'm sorry guys but we won't agree here. It is just plain stupid to say something like this in such a situation. You don't take disagreements with your players to the public like this. Give a diplomatic answer, let the media speculate, criticize in private but stand in front of your team publicly. If he didn't see such a reaction coming, it makes it even worse because he seemingly completely misjudged just how frustrated one of his protegees was.
Ok but I assume you also think every manager who does this is equally 'stupid' and not just ETH?
Like what refuse to answer the question to the media? He was asked why wasn't sancho selected? Now tell me how should he answer that doesn't cause any controversy.
He said every Manchester United player should train well. And this has created so much chaos.
So what if he had said " I don't want to answer " . Would that have been "dealing privately" i feel that would have been created even more questions.
So he had to answer and he chose the best possible one without even berating or abusing sancho but sancho being a child went on to twitter 30 mins after the pc and posted a crap thing.
But hey it's eth who should have dealt better. Make it sense, make it.
Any complaint about Antony could be aimed at Rashford on this seasons showing.
Sancho vs Rashford would make some good headlines as well, so I'm surprised the so called journos haven't crapped that out yet.
Sancho vs Rashford would make some good headlines as well, so I'm surprised the so called journos haven't crapped that out yet.
We are going in rounds and you are just making a weak argument just because you like sancho.
You suggested he should have evaded the question about sancho and praised the 19 year old kid. My honest counter question to you is how would that evaded anything? You are talking about english media, the same media would have countered him and asked so does sancho not train well? What should he do then. Or he could have just lied and said sancho is unfit but then sancho could have taken that as an offense as well.
The solution was simple, sancho should have kept his down and worked hard and then asked for a transfer request in January. No issue and he could have even featured more.
F Sancho
In general I agree. And in general this is what Ten Hag has done more consequently than any manager I have been able to follow at any proximity. So I bet you he agrees with you, in general.
Now in this specific case, we can only speculate why such a consequent manager would do what other managers do ever so often. Is he just human, and made an error of judgement after a sourly lost game where he just don’t bother being 100% duplomatic about a player he’d have needed in that game but who can’t be relied upon to even be in the squad when there are next to no alternatives? Maybe. Or has he done what he and you in general thinks is right so mny times for so long, that he thinks that ‘this is perhaps the only thing I haven’t tried to get a reaction from that amoeba? Ferguson, Mourinho, Guardiola, Klopp have all done it several times, and they are the most successful people in the business for the last 30 years.’ Maybe. How shall we know the difference?
Or do you mean that it cannot work, never, in any kind of circumstance? What is your evidence of that?
At this point I wouldn't even have Sancho show up for training with the youth team or anyone else. Pay him his paychecks he's entitled to by contract but advise him that he is not welcome at Carrington and that he may do as he wishes during the day, every day, until we can find another club for him.
I'm embarrassed to admit that I was excited when he came to OT but I must admit the truth that whatever the breakdown was when we brought him in that he's been poor (on the pitch, not on his way back from the bank) since the first day he joined United.
I'm embarrassed to admit that I was excited when he came to OT but I must admit the truth that whatever the breakdown was when we brought him in that he's been poor (on the pitch, not on his way back from the bank) since the first day he joined United.
He can't hack it here, not this league and not this club.
He's realised this now and so he's jumped on this tiny opportunity in order to create a shit storm in the hope of deflecting some attention away from him and his inability to perform at this level.
It's damning that his absence has not been felt at all. Even fully fit and in favour his performances have him behind pellestri in the pecking order.
Baller my balls. Imposter
He's realised this now and so he's jumped on this tiny opportunity in order to create a shit storm in the hope of deflecting some attention away from him and his inability to perform at this level.
It's damning that his absence has not been felt at all. Even fully fit and in favour his performances have him behind pellestri in the pecking order.
Baller my balls. Imposter
Yes
It doesn't matter what the media speculates as long as it doesn't come out of his mouth. If the media ask further questions on Sancho, he could have gone with something like "Jadon is a great player with great ability. Naturally, he isn't happy with my decision and I'd be more worried if he was. Maybe he is right and I was wrong but as managers, we sometimes have to make difficult decisions and this time, we decided to reward Gore for his great efforts in training. But we all believe in Jadon and I'm sure he'll be an important player for Manchester United"
You know, the phrases managers dish out all the time. It's really basic leadership practice, surround your criticism with praise. That concept even has a name (Harvard Sandwich approach). Give the recipient the impression he's valued and avoid that he feels humiliated, especially when other people are listening (as in this case).
Ok that's fair, I think others have already pointed out that list includes basically all the great managers.
Lad needs to grow up.Tweet
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So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
Just excuses from a clearly egotistical player who can't accept that he failed here. Antony is limited but his work-rate alone means he offers us more on a bad day than Sancho offers most of the time.
"I just want to talk about the players in the squad today."
Go back to Manchester. If Sancho has an issue, sit down with him Monday morning.
Simple.
The guy can't hack it here. Simple as that.
I think it depends completely on the situation. Take the Rashford case for example. He was in top form full of confidence, in a position of strength, and his misconduct was a very factual one - you are either punctual or you are too late. There's no room for interpretation or disagreement. In this case, you have a player probably shot of confidence who is seemingly in disagreement with the manager's opinion on a subjective matter and just had to take a severe hit by not being nominated. One player was in the "alright, I behaved wrong and accept the consequences" mood while the other probably rather in a "give it a break, why always me?" one. Now of course that's also a mindset question and we all know which one is the "right one" but if you are in a leadership position, you should seek the blame with you and accept the characters that you're dealing with.
But sancho tweeting about something he need not have made the matter worse. Imagine had he not even shared anything and just like any other professional individual kept his head down and worked hard , maybe he would have been playing now.
I don't recall Klopp or Ancelotti clashing with any of their players this way. Guardiola did so with Eto'o and Ibrahimovic but definitely not because he publicly criticized them. In those cases, it was actually the other way round and they later on bemoaned that he was a coward and never confronted them.
I guess it is also a question of judgment. In some situations, it might be the right incentive to motivate a player. But if that was what Ten Hag tried to do, he underestimated Sancho's level of frustration with him completely.
He has never said anything like that and his best performances have always been on the right
Klopp doesn't do it much, but he does on occasion. He did with Lovren and he had a bit of a thing with Sakho at the beginning of his Liverpool tenure. Interestingly enough, for the Sakho one, Klopp tried to deflect questions and claim injury but Sakho came out and contradicted him on Snapchat, so it became a thing.
I suppose winning cures all. If ETH goes on to win like Klopp, this will be a very minor blip and probably won't even be remembered.
Pep didn't have any credit in the bank when he started his Barca career and quickly shipped out Ronaldinho, made players like Henry and Eto'o play in unfavoured positions and conform to his new way of playing. It's plain double standards with an added pinch of hindsight.
I'm not even getting into him 'calling players out pubically" because that never happened; and he has quite obviously tried to keep this in-house for as long as possible; at some point questions need to be answered.
The sooner the petulant little prick leaves the better. If we can recoup £50m for him that would be very good business. Sign a young, hungry winger that actually wants to be here and isn’t afraid to put the graft in.
Hard to believe there isn't more to it than that. Surely he isn't that much of a baby? Antony works much harder than him off the ball and doesn't disappear 5 minutes into the game like Sancho does.Tweet
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So you’re unable to separate yourself from a guy you think is so much worse than you and then expect sympathy from anyone? C'mon
Someone of his supposed caliber would've been expected to outplay and outgraft those in the way of a starting spot instead of throwing in the towel and crying to the press...
He could have kept his mouth shut and ended up playing every game the past month if he'd just put the work in. We've had fecking Pellistri playing there.
It's a lot safer to publicly criticise underperforming players when you're winning leagues and all the players know you're a bigger reason why than they are tbf. You're not going to lose the dressing room when everyone in it knows their success is dependent on listening to you.
I think the timing more than anything is what made it look bad on ETH. If there's a time to comment negatively on a player you haven't picked, it's not directly after you lose. I know he got asked but just avoid it.
Although even without context it wasn't that bad as to merit a major issue. He's said similar about Garnacho more than once and its barely even meant as a criticism. Sancho's made it into a major thing for himself. I'm not sure why it's still ongoing outside of that. To everyone else ETH is the manager and if a player doesn't respect that they're not part of the equation.
Has nothing to do with Antony working his bollocks off every time he's on the pitch.
Unlike the waste of space that is Sancho.
We could have signed literally anyone from the PL and they would have had a bigger impact than Sancho. He hasn’t been arsed since he arrived, he had no intention of ever working for it.
Yep. Absolute disaster of a signing. So much potential just gone to waste.
Been hiding under a rock, have you?
Does Phillips ring a bell?
ETH has obviously tried things behind closed doors, as seen last season, so maybe this was a last resort as nothing else had got through to him. Saying that other players treained better than Sancho (not that Sancho trained badly) is pretty mild in the scheme of things. Just a shame that Sancho's such a cry baby.
A former Barcelona captain that had just had an impressive season with the young squad of the same club and had the backing of some of the most powerful and influential figures in the history of the club had no credit in the bank? And besides, he did not come out of the gate criticizing players in public as a young coach, which is what this is about, not merely shipping players out or adjusting formations. He won everything almost immediately, solidifying his position and influence at the club and in the dressing room. The rest is history.
Even if, as you say, "questions need to be answered", the issue here is whether this was the right time to answer in that kind of public manner with everything else already going on a the club. Despite suggestions to the contrary, he could have found a way to deflect, so what did ETH hope to accomplish by doing it at that moment? Motivate the player? Make an example to set standards for other players? Alienate a locker room cancer? Give the media fodder to try to distract from other ongoing issues at the club?
Part of being the United manger is having media literacy, dealing with their BS and managing the enormous spotlight that is placed on the club, so hopefully he incorporates whatever lessons are to be had from this episode into his approach in the future.
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