It’s all notional, as with a population of over 5 million there will always be a group somewhere in Palestine who want a religious war. But even if there was somehow a completely pacifist Palestine for a period of time there would be no guarantee it would continue.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
1. Vast majority of pacifist movements have been ignored or crushed
2. Apartheid SA was not toppled by a pacifist movement (the ANC would consider that an insult)
3. Stop expecting the oppressed to be 100% perfect before being liberated
It's a bullshit premise. Exhibit A: the West fecking Bank
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Took it down to re-upload due to an error in the first one
Friends may be strong in fairness but within 6 years they'd set up the ECSC. So if he lived to 86 then I guess. I'm not talking genuine love but to go from killing millions of each others citizens to forming a supra national trading organisation....within one person's lifetime....is pretty amazing.
My point is that the middle east isn't this unique place with these mystical people who go through issues the rest of humanity have never been through. They're people who fight. They're people who hate. Who love. Who kill. There's no way that people in Europe thought in 1941.....France and Germany are going to be in a supra national organisation.
If you made a list of all the overthrown dictators you could think of, eg in Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Africa, how many could you honestly say have been overthrown peacefully? I'd like you to be right I'm really struggling to think of any.
Yes? Why the sarcasm? It takes (at least) two sides to make peace. I'm sure you understand that? It wasn't just about the Germany. The the victorious countries decided not to entertain desires for revenge, but a mindset of quick integration on eye level instead of occupation and so the cycle was broken and the precursor of the EU was founded just 6 years after the war.
Yep, it's a classic negotiating tactic. Asking for a completely unachievable set of conditions, in full knowledge that it will never happen, so any commitments you make based on it are moot.
Good to know defense contractors/countries producing weapons like it are out there making bank again over the suffering of those whose faces they ll never see. As per usual.
Just another far right crackpot. Doesn't mean anything, doesn't matter.
In May 2022, Galit Distel-Atbaryan claimed in an interview that “there is no such thing as autism”, and shared how she “treated” her autistic son, by refusing him food and water until he talked. The comments caused a stir and led to criticism from autistic people and their families.
feck her then.
That’s usually how it works in free societies.
There's a reason why the replies are turned off on virtually all media pieces on Israel and in fact Jews over the last few years. The stream of hatred is inevitable.
Only good people on Bibi's government.
I wasn’t knocking it, they did well! Just thought the “time they became friends” was the Elyse treaty. I did warn at the start I’m probably talking out my arse on the topic!
Nothing wrong with what Brady said. Hamas are fecking morons regardless of what their goals are.
Would be shocked if bibi wasn’t done for after this mess is over. Think he knows it too.
No doubt, but I would have enjoyed the mental gymnastics.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Could have just settled for a "feck em"
I think so too mate. Going by the reaction of Israeli people to some ministers. Bibi is shielded at the moment but his time will come.
Any way he greased the skids of this current conflagration a la the perceived Clinton bombing his way out of second term trouble?
I mentioned this a while ago that the intensity is insane. That graph is misleading, but it’s true that in 4 years the us used 25,000~ against IS.
Doubt it. Think he just knows he’s done and is doing the maximalist brutal invasion to achieve his aim of dominating the Palestinians in the knowledge he could be going to jail anyway. Bibi absolutely does not care about Palestinia lives and I can say that hand on heart and feel no shame. It’s 100% true.
My worry is that he's going to go way too far and too brutal in a desperate attempt to rescue his reputation as a 'war leader'.
You know, I was thinking, that's enough bombing of Gaza now. However, if it was your baby, your wife, your grandparents who had been kidnapped. Would you be saying, that's enough bombing now?
I really don't know what the answer is. They need to get rid of Hammas, but at what cost to civilian life?
I really don't know what the answer is. They need to get rid of Hammas, but at what cost to civilian life?
Don't think I've ever felt more anger at a public figure than I am at this guy right now.
Because it warrants sarcasm to be honest. Germany did not decide to just move on, they were utterly destroyed. France did not just decide to move on but was brought along with the USA and the UK, who were not as aggressive post WW1 either. They were also mindful of the threat of the Soviet Union, particularly the USA and keen to create a German bulwark against them.
The equivalent here is the USA, Israel and Egypt invading Gaza, entirely defeating Hamas and then occupying the strip for decades and pumping in literally billions to rebuild the area.
It wasn't because the Europeans were so enlightened. They had after all been involving themselves (and the world as a whole) in increasingly destructive wars, killing tens of millions.
He is absolute poison. Whatever the first step is in restarting some kind of peace process in the years ahead, it absolutely needs to not involve him.
Does anyone have any ideas on how Israel can deal with the Hamas problem without the cost of thousands of Palestinian lives?
An enemy who have no interest in peace, in co-existence. One who can neither be ignored or pandered to as it has only one goal, your complete and total destruction.
A lot of justified criticism and condemnation is laid at Israel but you never hear of any realistic alternative approach to the Hamas problem..
Myself and one or two others have suggested, perhaps naively, that a Palestinian uprising against Hamas might be one of the ways this current chapter of the never ending conflict ends. Taking away Hamas' cover would expose them in the open allowing the Israelis to pick them off with less innocent lives lost, at least in theory.
Out of interest do we have any figures on the number of Palestinians killed by Hamas over the years? I imagine non cooperation carries a heavy price and that fear is Hamas' biggest weapon against the people of Gaza.
An enemy who have no interest in peace, in co-existence. One who can neither be ignored or pandered to as it has only one goal, your complete and total destruction.
A lot of justified criticism and condemnation is laid at Israel but you never hear of any realistic alternative approach to the Hamas problem..
Myself and one or two others have suggested, perhaps naively, that a Palestinian uprising against Hamas might be one of the ways this current chapter of the never ending conflict ends. Taking away Hamas' cover would expose them in the open allowing the Israelis to pick them off with less innocent lives lost, at least in theory.
Out of interest do we have any figures on the number of Palestinians killed by Hamas over the years? I imagine non cooperation carries a heavy price and that fear is Hamas' biggest weapon against the people of Gaza.
‘You know, I was thinking, that’s enough bombing towards Israel now. However if it was your baby, your wife, your grandparents who had been killed. Would you be saying, that’s enough bombing now?
I really don’t know what the answer is. They need to get rid of the govt, but at what cost to civilian life?’
My point is that you start the post with claiming that pointing out religion as the root cause is a tactic to dehumanize and then you end it with claiming people realized that religion would only bring destruction.
And Hamas are a terror organization with the explicit goal to establish an Islamist state, are they not? So how are they not driven by religion?
I'm sure religion is a factor for Israel, too and I don't think I said anything to the contrary.
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Like the late and great Michael Brooks said, this is not a complicated issue
Edit: feck it, let me post the video
It's not complicated. It's not rocket science. It's not hard. This is real simple.
Nah. He's being blamed for this. Something like 60 IDF soldiers in total, including off-duty ones, on the border with Gaza (and their circa 30k Hamas militants) last weekend is a critical failure from a guy who promised security above all else. I think he's done for.
Not sure I'd be thinking that an indiscriminate bombing campaign was the best way of freeing them no.