Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

[Pintu]

So many countries playing the abstain game.

Many shameless European countries and some too dependant on the US to anger them (includes Ukraine for exemple -actually, in their situation, it takes courage to not vote with the US)…

 

[2mufc0]

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How can voting against this be justified.

 

[Alex99]

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Why have they gone full Ceefax with that graphic?

 

[Brown Toothpick]

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They got them by the balls..

 

[RedDevil@84]

How can voting against this be justified.

As usual, they will argue on technicalities in the draft. Certain words were not used. Certain events were not included. A harsher word was used in line number so and so etc etc.

 

[VorZakone]

Ah Syria
- We don't like Assad (links to Iran), regime change time!
- Bay of Pigs iteration 50, let's fund an independent rebel army to create instability
- Oh wait some of them have become ISIS
- Oh wait Russia is intervening to help Assad
- Ah well the rebels we funded didn't manage to overthrow Assad, might as well keep them there anyway to wreck havock on the country

Now we may as well get an excuse to send the US military in and finish the job properly. Have Americans and Syrians die for no reason. Who does that benefit? Ah yes, good ole Israel

Just to clarify, you realize Syrians themselves rose up against Assad, right?

 

[JPRouve]

How can voting against this be justified.

This is politics and foreign affairs. Voting with an other country can be leveraged at a later date on a topic that concerns you.

 

[Jim Beam]

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Croatia voting against it?? Absolutely and fully ashamed seeing this, feck my government and everyone involved in such decision. If there was ever a confirmation we are run by bunch of evil, corrupted and calculated sociopaths, there you go.

 

[Cloud7]

On a day like this I wonder what pro-Israeli posters are even complaining about.

You are going to materially "win" this. Israel will get rid of almost ten thousand Palestinians of all stripes. They'll cause serious damage to Hamas. The United States and Europe will ensure that there are no serious consequences to this depravity. This is hardly in any doubt.

What is the complaint? That you'll get called names while this happens?

I don’t get it as well. They have every material positive here. It seems like they won’t be satisfied unless they get all of this plus the citizens of every nation in the world saying that they are right to do this.

 

[united_99]

So many vile, shameless and coward countries. Not voting for it while Israel is committing genocide and thousands of people and children are dying.

 

[Drizzle]

On a day like this I wonder what pro-Israeli posters are even complaining about.

You are going to materially "win" this. Israel will get rid of almost ten thousand Palestinians of all stripes. They'll cause serious damage to Hamas. The United States and Europe will ensure that there are no serious consequences to this depravity. This is hardly in any doubt.

What is the complaint? That you'll get called names while this happens?

Nobody wins this. You think Israelis are loving this? It's a living nightmare. Reminder. 1400 Israelis were slaughtered on livestream. You can't wave it away or expect Israel to. And hundreds of their men are probably going to die in the next couple of days, maybe thousands. Nobody's winning this.

And as for the calling names comment, dear me.

 

[VorZakone]

Just to clarify, you do realise that most Syrian rebel groups, including the free Syrian army and Isis, received significant military and financial backing from the US?

Obama even got funding approved for them in the congress.

I know that. Why did you in your post leave out that Syrians rose up against Assad though?

 

[JagUTD]

These are governments normalising relations, go speak to the people in these countries and ask them what they think about it. The same way these puppet regimes have been normalising they can easily be reversed.

Hopefully misreading this but are you saying Israel is in serious danger and the relations it has forged with former enemies give a false sense of security? The real danger comes from the civilians?

Sorry if I've missed some further context.

 

[owlo]

On a day like this I wonder what pro-Israeli posters are even complaining about.

You are going to materially "win" this. Israel will get rid of almost ten thousand Palestinians of all stripes. They'll cause serious damage to Hamas. The United States and Europe will ensure that there are no serious consequences to this depravity. This is hardly in any doubt.

What is the complaint? That you'll get called names while this happens?

It's hardly happy days when thousands of people are dying is it. Or when terrorist settlers in the west bank are taking advantage. Or that anti semitism is sky high. And when there is absolutely no hope for the region, any hope of peace or two states is destroyed. It's thoroughly depressing.

This is politics and foreign affairs. Voting with an other country can be leveraged at a later date on a topic that concerns you.

Almost all of the West voted against or abstained. France, Spain, Portugal, and Belgium(?) voted for, but you can imagine if it was a vote that mattered they wouldn't have done. And a few tiny countries that are essentially western proxies voted with their masters.The interesting ones are Ethiopia and South Sudan. Maybe @africanspur knows about those.

 

[owlo]

Ah Syria
- We don't like Assad (links to Iran), regime change time!
- Bay of Pigs iteration 50, let's fund an independent rebel army to create instability
- Oh wait some of them have become ISIS
- Oh wait Russia is intervening to help Assad
- Ah well the rebels we funded didn't manage to overthrow Assad, might as well keep them there anyway to wreck havock on the country

Now we may as well get an excuse to send the US military in and finish the job properly. Have Americans and Syrians die for no reason. Who does that benefit? Ah yes, good ole Israel

Ah yes, it's the rebels who are living in terror, the US, and Israel to blame for this situation.

Not Chemical Assad, Russia the weapons range practices, and Iran the regional instability vortex to blame.

But you care about Palestinian lives.

 

[2mufc0]

Hopefully misreading this but are you saying Israel is in serious danger and the relations it has forged with former enemies give a false sense of security? The real danger comes from the civilians?

Sorry if I've missed some further context.

No. What I'm saying is these government decisions to normalise are not representative of the people's wishes and can be reversed in the future when a government representative of the people is in power.

 

[berbatrick]

So many countries playing the abstain game.

we're civilised now, so we also abstain!

 

[2cents]

Any idea why Iraq abstained?

 

[RedDevil@84]

we're civilised now, so we also abstain!

We are big players now.

 

[That_Bloke]

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It gives an idea about how Europe is divided, unable to unanimously vote on the simple human and decent thing to do, and why it will never have a voice on international matters again. Cowards, the lot of them (who abstained or worse, voted against).

Also quite incredible to see states like the Marshall Islands, Nauru, Micronesia, Papua or Tonga voting against.

 

[Drizzle]

Interesting if true, considering the discussion here earlier. I still feel Israel wants a way out of this.

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[berbatrick]

this was a few hours ago, before the shutdown, but this is probably the place where they keep citizenship records. it was targeted for bombing a few hours after releasing a pdf with the records of all those killed.

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also

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a destruction of memory and culture, to go with the destruction of the people

 

[the_cliff]

Ah Syria
- We don't like Assad (links to Iran), regime change time!
- Bay of Pigs iteration 50, let's fund an independent rebel army to create instability
- Oh wait some of them have become ISIS
- Oh wait Russia is intervening to help Assad
- Ah well the rebels we funded didn't manage to overthrow Assad, might as well keep them there anyway to wreck havock on the country

Now we may as well get an excuse to send the US military in and finish the job properly. Have Americans and Syrians die for no reason. Who does that benefit? Ah yes, good ole Israel

You forgot to add - create a migration crisis and complain when all these dirty Arabs are coming into my country in droves. Why don't they just leave us alone !

 

[berbatrick]

Interesting if true, considering the discussion here earlier. I still feel Israel wants a way out of this.

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Literal inversion of reality. Here is the al-Arabiya report:

An official of the militant Hamas group conditioned the release of hostages in Gaza to a ceasefire in Israel’s bombardment of the Palestinian enclave, launched after a deadly rampage into southern Israel nearly three weeks ago.
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/...-to-ceasefire-in-Israel-s-bombardment-of-Gaza

 

[FromTheBench]

What's with us having this crazy love for Israel?

What does Israel give to us?

 

[owlo]

Any idea why Iraq abstained?

Missed that one. Wonder if a few of these are a finger up to Iran.

 

[utdalltheway]

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Dangerous times

where's the link to the story? All I see is that guys tweet.

 

[berbatrick]

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since there are no reports from inside the ghetto

 

[Brown Toothpick]

What's with us having this crazy love for Israel?

What does Israel give to us?

Historical overcompensation and more relatable to the west vs Palestine and Arabs.

 

[Super Hans]

Torture on a eye watering scale ? Can't say it does. Having an unelected terrorist organization speaking for all Palestinians in Gaza is definitely a problem though. One has to ask whether Gazans are better off today off in the present than when Hamas took over 16 years ago.

Do you mean you don’t think it happened? That is how they cowed the occupied population. Routine torture. Torture was actually legal in Israel until 1999. Thousands upon thousands were tortured during the overwhelmingly unarmed first intifada. They’d torture people into giving up their mates then they’d torture the mates. Did you read this by Ari Shavit? https://archive.ph/2021.05.10-035552/https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1991/07/18/on-gaza-beach/ Originally posted by Murder on zidane’s
Floor

 

[Giggsyking]

It had nothing to do with Saudi, then nation. There were also Emiratis, Egyptians, and Lebanese among the hijackers.

So why did the us invade iraq? Had iraq anything to do with 9/11?

 

[the_cliff]

What's with us having this crazy love for Israel?

What does Israel give to us?

Nothing. It's actually the opposite. Our taxes go to them.

 

[the_cliff]

So why did the us invade iraq? Had iraq anything to do with 9/11?

For WMD, no ?

I don't remember the US ever using the excuse of 9/11 for the invasion of Iraq, it was always Saddam had WMD as far as I remember.

 

[Bebe]

No, this isn't genocide. I don't really want to quibble over words when there is such suffering occurring, but this word has a specific meaning. I don't accept that what is happening here - which are brutal, horrible, terrible things - is the same thing.

It is absolutely genocide. It is an ongoing attempt to rid a geographic area of a population group. Israeli politicians state as much routinely and have done for years if not decades.

It is genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc. I take your point that these are heavy words, but they are absolutely applicable in the matter at hand.

 

[calodo2003]

So why did the us invade iraq? Had iraq anything to do with 9/11?

It was never about 9.11, it was about WMDs.

 

[Bebe]

That doesn't negate the reality of what has transpired over the past three weeks. The weaker side doesn't get to behave as Hamas did and not expect an overwhelming response.

What would your response be if I ask "Does Israel get to do what Israel does on a daily basis to Palestinians, and not expect an event like October 7th?"

I know that reads a bit smarmy on my part - I truly mean the question in a genuine and literal sense, nothing more.

 

[YouOnlyLiveTwice]

i cant fecking take this. so so horrible

 

[4bars]

It was never about 9.11, it was about WMDs.

It was never about 9/11, it was never about WMD. It was just because...then they need it to find an excuse even if it meant lying

 

[Raoul]

So why did the us invade iraq? Had iraq anything to do with 9/11?

Based on my understanding, it was a confluence of miscalculation and bad policy aided by terrible (and probably manipulated) intelligence. They thought Saddam still had a WMD program, which during the intense paranoia in the US immediately after 9/11, was used as an excuse to invade. Oh and Saddam had also plotted to kill Bush Sr. with a car bomb in Kuwait in 1993, so that probably factored into Dubya's logic as well.

 

[Frosty]

It was never about 9.11, it was about WMDs.

Although the hawks in the Bush administration used 9/11 as a means to the end of removing Saddam and (in their eyes) finishing the business of the first Gulf War. WMDs were the best justification for their aims.