Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[DickDastardly]

It's a weird line of thinking. Instead of trying to change the culture for the better and be a club that moves forward and hopes to change football and the league in that respect, it's rather interpreted as let's keep football problematic.

You could look at it that way.

Can i look at it my way?
You know, the "can i just watch football and enjoy the club's success without the need to change it?"

The, "i don't give a shit if he's a nice bloke who helps grannies over the road or not".

It's kind of utopic to look at footballers as these divine beings who do no wrong and we need to put them on pedastals of our own desires.
They're morons. Well, most of them are.

We've been spoiled by the likes of Cantona the philosopher, Charlton the saint and even Beckham who seems a nice guy.

What was your opinion on Giggs? He's a prick of the highest order, yet seemed to got away with it.
Could you imagine George Best in today's society and standards?!

He wouldn't get into Getafe's reserve team the way he was dealing with booze and women.


The thing i'm saying is, can we just watch football and not dwell into it further?

 

[rimaldo]

His contract expires in the summer of 2025, I presume we also have +1 year on this as well ?

got to protect his value.

 

[afrocentricity]

Damn.... Should I have bumped this thread? It's literally gone back to what it was before the performance thread. In fact where are those guys that got the performance thread shut down? Gone quiet again?

 

[Mickeza]

His contract expires in the summer of 2025, I presume we also have +1 year on this as well ?

We do. The idea he’s going on a free is moronic. We have FFP issues and he’s a saleable homegrown asset - he will be sold.

 

[Red00012]

got to protect his value.

Woody loves this comment

 

[dwd]

Christ, does than mean that the racist 'fans' views about black players on social media are also true then?

Weird response. It means it won't be a muted reaction that you seem to think it will just because time has passed by.

 

[GledTheRed]

Bring him back, we're shit and have no decent attackers.

 

[Pes6Monster]

You could look at it that way.

Can i look at it my way?
You know, the "can i just watch football and enjoy the club's success without the need to change it?"

The, "i don't give a shit if he's a nice bloke who helps grannies over the road or not".

It's kind of utopic to look at footballers as these divine beings who do no wrong and we need to put them on pedastals of our own desires.
They're morons. Well, most of them are.

We've been spoiled by the likes of Cantona the philosopher, Charlton the saint and even Beckham who seems a nice guy.

What was your opinion on Giggs? He's a prick of the highest order, yet seemed to got away with it.
Could you imagine George Best in today's society and standards?!

He wouldn't get into Getafe's reserve team the way he was dealing with booze and women.


The thing i'm saying is, can we just watch football and not dwell into it further?

Another poster who can't see what is wrong with false equivalences (helping Grannies/sexual violence, 'they're all morons') and whataboutery, accusing people of being 'utopic' and using morality as a pejorative.

Still, at least you are honest about your intentions. Football is more important to you than human life.

It's utterly vile, of course, but a meagre acceptance of the venal culture you've been cultivated to accept.

 

[UpWithRivers]

Morally he should be nowhere near the club but morals dont even apply to football anymore. Everyone cozying up to the Saudis and Quatar. Buy our club! Go to all the sports events etc. And just ignore their human rights and women's rights record. Plus all the other famous people that no one gives a fk what they did. Even outside football. Mike Tyson for example. Everyone is just a bunch of hypocrites

 

[DickDastardly]

Did Liverpool fans care that Suarez was a racist bastard?
Did we care that Giggs fecked his brothers wife and was a prick?

Do we care if Neymar has a sick relationship with his sister?
Do we care if Mata is gay? Is he? Would our religious fans care?
How many women did Cristiano Ronaldo rape and payed off for silence? How much does it cost?

We can go on and on and on.....hell, even Cantona roundhoused a fan into his face.
What would his social sentence be today?

Another poster who can't see what is wrong with false equivalences (helping Grannies/sexual violence, 'they're all morons') and whataboutery, accusing people of being 'utopic' and using morality as a pejorative.

Still, at least you are honest about your intentions. Football is more important to you than human life.

It's utterly vile, of course, but a meagre acceptance of the venal culture you've been cultivated to accept.

Has Mason Greenwood been found guilty of anything? I thought the case was closed and he and his wife are living together, raising a child?

What human life are we talking about here? The human life of his girlfriend who chooses to raise a child with him and live with him?

Talk about whataboutery.

 

[SilentWitness]

You could look at it that way.

Can i look at it my way?
You know, the "can i just watch football and enjoy the club's success without the need to change it?"

The, "i don't give a shit if he's a nice bloke who helps grannies over the road or not".

It's kind of utopic to look at footballers as these divine beings who do no wrong and we need to put them on pedastals of our own desires.
They're morons. Well, most of them are.

We've been spoiled by the likes of Cantona the philosopher, Charlton the saint and even Beckham who seems a nice guy.

What was your opinion on Giggs? He's a prick of the highest order, yet seemed to got away with it.
Could you imagine George Best in today's society and standards?!

He wouldn't get into Getafe's reserve team the way he was dealing with booze and women.

The thing i'm saying is, can we just watch football and not dwell into it further?

Football and society are intrinsically linked. Added to that, football, both the respective bodies and clubs have decided to put themselves into positions where they support certain societal causes. For example the PFA is working with Women's Aid in terms of resources and campaigns against domestic abuse etc.

Footballers are still members of society no matter what pedestal we put them on and as such wanting to better the culture of football, as I hope we want to better the culture of society, isn't that much to ask.

 

[slipperyshoe]

Like said, people are furious about the Glazers yet they are still here, people still buy the shirts and go to the games.

Difference is nobody outside Utd gives a feck about the Glaziers. Plenty of people have an opinion on Mason though.

I’m not saying that’s right, I believe he should come back. He won’t though

 

[JB08]

Did Liverpool fans care that Suarez was a racist bastard?

Some of them, yes?

Did we care that Giggs fecked his brothers wife and was a prick?

Some of us, yes?

Do we care if Neymar has a sick relationship with his sister?
Do we care if Mata is gay? Is he? Would our religious fans care?

What the feck?

 

[BD]

I find it hard to believe that so many of you will have heard the tape or read the transcript, and yet are fully ok with the idea of seeing him score for us and celebrating along with him. Even if we accept the idea of him deserving a second chance here (which I don't, but anyway), I can't imagine seeing him score and not being reminded of how much of a prick he is - completely ruining the joy from the goal.

 

[BD]

Do we care if Mata is gay? Is he? Would our religious fans care?

This is ridiculous. Fecking hell

 

[DickDastardly]

Football and society are intrinsically linked. Added to that, football, both the respective bodies and clubs have decided to put themselves into positions where they support certain societal causes. For example the PFA is working with Women's Aid in terms of resources and campaigns against domestic abuse etc.

Footballers are still members of society no matter what pedestal we put them on and as such wanting to better the culture of football, as I hope we want to better the culture of society, isn't that much to ask.

Not only members of society, they're actually important role models.

Which says enough about us as a society.
Glorified roman gladiators. We pay tickets to watch them run after a rounded calf skin and shoot into a fisherman's net.

Culture of football you say? It's not like the culture of football is something worth keeping. It's vile and primitive.

 

[slipperyshoe]

Football and society are intrinsically linked. Added to that, football, both the respective bodies and clubs have decided to put themselves into positions where they support certain societal causes. For example the PFA is working with Women's Aid in terms of resources and campaigns against domestic abuse etc.

Footballers are still members of society no matter what pedestal we put them on and as such wanting to better the culture of football, as I hope we want to better the culture of society, isn't that much to ask.

Agree with your comments around clubs having some moral standards. They should ultimately be a stalwart of the local community and wider society.
My issue in this case is with the trial by social media and the lack of any fair and reasoned trial in a court of law. Whilst I’ve no doubt that there is certainly something to the allegations (ie he is/was a horrible prick), they are undoubtedly more complex than a 2 minute audio clip. Hence why they are still together and raising a child.

Mason should come back and should give a % of his salary FOREVER to a women’s charity. As I said, there’s something in that clip and if he can repent by helping others forever more, then I think that’s better than shipping him off somewhere to rot. After all, we the club were no small part in creating this monster.

 

[SilentWitness]

Culture of football you say? It's not like the culture of football is something worth keeping. It's vile and primitive.

That was the original point which you argued against? That we should be trying to change football culture to be better.

 

[JustAGuest]

Did Liverpool fans care that Suarez was a racist bastard?
Did we care that Giggs fecked his brothers wife and was a prick?

Do we care if Neymar has a sick relationship with his sister?
Do we care if Mata is gay? Is he? Would our religious fans care?
How many women did Cristiano Ronaldo rape and payed off for silence? How much does it cost?

We can go on and on and on.....hell, even Cantona roundhoused a fan into his face.
What would his social sentence be today?



Has Mason Greenwood been found guilty of anything? I thought the case was closed and he and his wife are living together, raising a child?

What human life are we talking about here? The human life of his girlfriend who chooses to raise a child with him and live with him?

Talk about whataboutery.

No way did you just bunch rape together with being gay?

 

[afrocentricity]

I find it hard to believe that so many of you will have heard the tape or read the transcript, and yet are fully ok with the idea of seeing him score for us and celebrating along with him. Even if we accept the idea of him deserving a second chance here (which I don't, but anyway), I can't imagine seeing him score and not being reminded of how much of a prick he is - completely ruining the joy from the goal.

I'm curious what's in the rest of the recording and why it (and everything else) wasn't enough to press charges. It won't be forgotten, ever, maybe less people will actively talk about or act on it though...

By most reports it's not a thing in Spain, and they know about it. Oppo fans will know and as MG is now one of Getafe's better players he will be targeted. Only that hasn't happened so much..

I kinda agree with those saying some of you are overestimating your numbers

Difference is nobody outside Utd gives a feck about the Glaziers. Plenty of people have an opinion on Mason though.

I’m not saying that’s right, I believe he should come back. He won’t though

Fair point, one weakens and the other would strengthen us. A lot of the potential outrage (should United opt to reinstate) will be from oppo fans

 

[DickDastardly]

That was the original point which you argued against? That we should be trying to change football culture to be better.

No.

I'm fully aware that football is what it is.
And that we should not try to change into something that isn't.

It's a brutal, barbaric modern slavery shitpile that attends to our lowest desires.

Now more then ever.

And if we're going to dissect the gladiators who play the game and socially discard the ones who we don't seem fit enough to participate, we're going to be left with a very small pool of people who are up to the standards of the moral society.

Further more, if we're going to dissect the owners and everyone involved into the football society, and discard the morally corrupt, well, we're in for a big fecking spanish inquisition.

 

[SilentWitness]

No.

I'm fully aware that football is what it is.
And that we should not try to change into something that isn't.

It's a brutal, barbaric modern slavery shitpile that attends to our lowest desires.

Now more then ever.

And if we're going to dissect the gladiators who play the game and socially discard the ones who we don't seem fit enough to participate, we're going to be left with a very small pool of people who are up to the standards of the moral society.

Further more, if we're going to dissect the owners and everyone involved into the football society, and discard the morally corrupt, well, we're in for a big fecking spanish inquisition.

Strange thing to want football to be. It's possible for football to be better and to evolve the culture to be better and in many ways I think football has and can still do so.

To want to entrench yourself in the worst of it is just...weird.

 

[arthurka]

He should be allowed to play for United again, thats my two cents.

 

[Rood]

That's still a strong statement to make.

As I've said on here before, I've worked for charities dealing with victims of domestic abuse. More often than not, the biggest advocate for the guilty party is the victim. On at least 50% of cases we saw, it would very rarely get to court because the victim withdrew their case usually because they were terrified.

In the eyes of the law, the person we assumed was the guilty party was therefore innocent because ultimately there was no case. In reality, we were talking to women everyday with black eyes and fractured bones. They were clearly victims even in the cases where ppthey go back to their abuser.

Yes these are important points to take into account and stats about victims returning to their abusers have been mentioned many times in these threads.

I think the club niavely believed that once fans saw that the couple were back together with a baby, that would be enough to accept him back. Clearly that was not the case and this is due exactly to the kind of patterns about domestic abuse cases you have mentioned.

At the same time, the high profile nature of this case means it's not your standard domestic abuse case. The CPS investigated for over a year before dropping the case, MUFC then did another internal investigation and concluded that Greenwood is not guilty - this verdict was supported by both her and, more importantly for me, her parents.

Regardless of that, it's clear by now that many people will not accept the findings of the club's investigation until they get an explanation for the audio/pics and I think that's probably fair enough. So then it's up to Mason & his partner to decide how much they want to return to Manchester.

 

[BD]

I'm curious what's in the rest of the recording and why it (and everything else) wasn't enough to press charges. It won't be forgotten, ever, maybe less people will actively talk about or act on it though...

By most reports it's not a thing in Spain, and they know about it. Oppo fans will know and as MG is now one of Getafe's better players he will be targeted. Only that hasn't happened so much..

I kinda agree with those saying some of you are overestimating your numbers

I think he would definitely be targeted more in England. I'm sure fans in Spain are aware of what happened, but not to the same extent as in the UK, that's natural.

But I do have a feeling that United are still thinking about bringing him back, depressingly enough. And I think if they do it right, they could get away with it - as people have been saying, the backlash would eventually die down. There are so many 'narratives' in the PL alone, that the media might move on quick enough. I'd hate to see it, but I can imagine it happening.

 

[duffer]

Fair point, one weakens and the other would strengthen us. A lot of the potential outrage (should United opt to reinstate) will be from oppo fans

I am 100% sure that if he plays for Man United again, the negative opposition fan reaction to him will cause a lot of Man United fans to back him.

It happened with Zouma, Suarez and Terry (I'm not saying what they did was the same, just they were all pretty much hated by oppos). The tribalism will just kick in for a lot of fans, even more so of he is on the pitch in Man United colours.

 

[afrocentricity]

I am 100% sure that if he plays for Man United again, the negative opposition fan reaction to him will cause a lot of Man United fans to back him.

It happened with Zouma, Suarez and Terry (I'm not saying what they did was the same, just they were all pretty much hated by oppos). The tribalism will just kick in for a lot of fans, even more so of he is on the pitch in Man United colours.

Not the guys in this thread! But for those on the fence, you may be right...

 

[Pes6Monster]

Did Liverpool fans care that Suarez was a racist bastard?
Did we care that Giggs fecked his brothers wife and was a prick?
Do we care if Neymar has a sick relationship with his sister?
Do we care if Mata is gay? Is he? Would our religious fans care?
How many women did Cristiano Ronaldo rape and payed off for silence? How much does it cost?

Whataboutery. Rhetorical question whataboutery. The worst kind.

Has Mason Greenwood been found guilty of anything?

Your problem is he hasn't been found innocent of anything. Charges have been dropped. Not disproved.

At the same time, the high profile nature of this case means it's not your standard domestic abuse case. The CPS investigated for over a year before dropping the case, MUFC then did another internal investigation and concluded that Greenwood is not guilty - this verdict was supported by both her and, more importantly for me, her parents.

The CPS 'dropped the case' as their chances of securing a conviction fell. This was because key witnesses withdrew and 'new evidence', the nature of which is not disclosed, had come to light.

Again, crucially, this is not evidence of innocence.

As for the club, though its belated statement claimed Greenwood was innocent, it acknowledged the player 'made mistakes he takes responsibility for' without advising what these mistakes are and why it's sufficient for them to want him removed, when they clearly wanted him reintegrated.

Think it's quite clear their 'internal investigation' was a ploy to bide time, they rode on the CPS and only due to a fan backlash did they proceed as they did.

One more: this isn't about Greenwood should be allowed to rehabilitate, that's what he should be doing anyway.

It's more about a precedent for player behaviour and until Greenwood can prove the evidence we've seen about him is false, and proven innocence is an incontrovertible fact, he should be removed for both footballing and moral reasons.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

If United fans had been overwhelmingly pro Greenwood from early on (from when the case was thrown out anyway) the agenda would have been set in the media and the "campaign" to bring him back would have been reported on.

There was an initial period of uproar followed by a rather large period of silence which was broken by The Athletic. I’m not sure any United fan, even the ones that would see him play for the club again are ‘pro-Greenwood’.

Ultimately, the only public facing campaign was the female fans against Greenwood movement that attracted national and local media attention. That ultimately became the focal point for media discussion. There was no active public campaign to bring him back aside from a few people on Twitter moaning. I'm often critical of the media but again, in this case, they were only responding to what was being said by matchgoing fans.

Because ultimately a large number of the fans will be somewhere in the middle whilst the vocal sides will be in the extremes.

I keep saying it but the people I know that go often just want to go to the match, enjoy it [rare these days] & go home. They are not protesters or people that want to. Painting all people of a large group as one thing is dangerous.

Again, why would there need to be an active campaign to bring him back when it was clearly in the clubs plans anyway, do I need to campaign for you to wake up & go to work every morning?

"I don’t believe Manchester United Football Club should be in the habit of setting a standard no other club is."

Really? Why not? Why shouldn't Manchester United set a different standard that nobody else has or is doing? I appreciate we haven't always in the past but why shouldn't we now?

Simple really. The football industry has never cared beyond a players ability & in this case it won’t either.

- There’s a statue of a self confessed domestic abuser outside the ground.

- The club were happy to welcome back Ronaldo.

- People still sing about Giggs.

. . .

We all saw/heard what we saw/heard, no amount of lip service from Greenwood will justify what is quite frankly unjustifiable. Though my view remains that I want my footballers to play football

 

[BD]

I am 100% sure that if he plays for Man United again, the negative opposition fan reaction to him will cause a lot of Man United fans to back him.

Definitely. Even Rachel Riley and a few journalists were enough to get a load of people to stick up for Greenwood. Seeing, for e.g. City and Newcastle fans, give him abuse will lead to him getting more and more support from United fans.

 

[Phil Osophy]

That guy mixing in the same post being a racist, raping, cheating... and being gay. It's curious how the main support for Greenwood always comes from people still living in the medieval age.

By the way, for those suggesting Greenwood eventually going to Madrid or Barcelona.

Madrid and Barcelona can cherry pick the best players around the world. They don't need to buy a flawed selfish prat from Aliexpress because he's cheap, when they can get a Rolls Royce with more guarantees. The guy is a ticking bomb that could eventually explode one day again when you less expect it. Today he's fine but tomorrow you wake up and he's involved in some weird shit. There's nothing in his head. Madrid and Barca don't need to play that game.

For those who still don't get it, you have to look at Greenwood like an even more graceless Balotelli. There's some talent there but he's dumb, lazy and doesn't have any interest in the game. It's a shame but nature didn't give him more, so what can we do. The sooner his fans accept he's leaving next summer the less traumatic it will be for them.

You can look at the positive side, there's always plenty of space in Getafe's stadium. You'll be able to choose the perfect place to watch your starboy when he signs for them permanently.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

It's curious how the main support for Greenwood always comes from people still living in the medieval age.

. . .

you have to look at Greenwood like an even more graceless Balotelli. There's some talent there but he's dumb, lazy and doesn't have any interest in the game. It's a shame but nature didn't give him more, so what can we do.

The irony.

 

[DJ Jeff]

Like said, people are furious about the Glazers yet they are still here, people still buy the shirts and go to the games.

Yeah, but if you're him, why on earth would you come back here to get dogs abuse from the entire country when you could just move to a bigger club in Spain and have the easy ride from crowds, press, social media etc that he's getting now? It's a no brainer for him to stay there. One of the bigger teams will come in for him, if not Barca or Madrid then Atleti or someone of that ilk.

 

[afrocentricity]

I literally just told you.

The "cowards" stuff was from Rood after he heard someone was talking shit about how *that* thread was being moderated.

Yeah I had a look it was moses and lambs. You were going off about the performance thread at the same time.

 

[Phil Osophy]

. . .

The irony.

Amazingly wrong take, but nothing surprising coming from his fanclub.

I just paired two idiots there based on their idiocy. Two players at big clubs in Manchester who only have certain talent but nothing else to surround it. Individualistic, lacking discipline and no team spirit anywhere to be seen, being under the spotlight for the wrong reasons more than they should.

I mean, I just compared Greenwood and Ronaldo in my previous post. I don't know what race has to do with a guy being selfish, stupid or anything else. I tell you: Nothing.

In the end those 3 left the big stage to play for some irrelevant clubs. Just a spark of talent popping up here and there doesn't make you a good player in the modern game. The way big teams are built these days you need to do much more for 90 minutes than what MG has to offer.

There's no chance he comes back next summer and even less going to Barca and Madrid. Zero.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Amazingly wrong take, but nothing surprising coming from his fanclub.

So I stopped reading here as it’s blatantly obvious your unable to hold an adult discussion on the topic without insults.

Now off you pop back to the medieval ages.

 

[MancunianAngels]

I am 100% sure that if he plays for Man United again, the negative opposition fan reaction to him will cause a lot of Man United fans to back him.

It happened with Zouma, Suarez and Terry (I'm not saying what they did was the same, just they were all pretty much hated by oppos). The tribalism will just kick in for a lot of fans, even more so of he is on the pitch in Man United colours.

The big difference is that in all three of those cases, there was never any serious campaign to not bring him back, at least from the fans of the clubs anyway.

That will always be an important distinction.

 

[TsuWave]

I am 100% sure that if he plays for Man United again, the negative opposition fan reaction to him will cause a lot of Man United fans to back him.

Absolutely. Not the whole fanbase, of course, but a substantial amount. Football is anchored by tribalism. “One of our own” is a tenet in almost every ground.

There’s few things that people - especially “sports fans” - like more that a “redemption” arc - and “us against the world” might just be one of those few things.

 

[Phil Osophy]

So I stopped reading here as it’s blatantly obvious your unable to hold an adult discussion on the topic without insults.

Now off you pop back to the medieval ages.

I posted three times in this thread and better or worse I exposed my reasons. If I'm wrong about something you should have told me what it is and why, but you have nothing.

The three responses I got from the fanclub until now:

"The worst I've read in 35 years".
"You're a racist!11!!!1".
And "I don't want to read more because you're probably right so I'll pretend I didn't read anything".

You can see why I don't expect anything from you.

 

[duffer]

There’s few things that people - especially “sports fans” - like more that a “redemption” arc - and “us against the world” might just be one of those few things.

I also love a redemption arc but part of that arc has to be "I am sorry", not "I didn't do it".

If he didn't do it, there's nothing to be "redeemed".

That's why saying "he's grown" or "he's changed" doesn't really make any sense.