[NZT-One]

So hang on - when he plays well vs 3rd place Villa, that's because "their high line played to his strengths". But when he also plays well vs a low block, it's "only Nottingham Forest after all"? The mental gymnastics some people go through to downplay Bruno's ability is mad.

Why are you starting with stuff like that? Why do you come up with "mental gymnastics" and "downplay" and "mad"? I am the only one of the "level 1 critics" in here who posted today. And all I did was mentioning that the conditions suited the whole team, especially him and Rashford and Garnacho. How is that downplaying his abiltity? You want to get rid of the "negativity"? Try not to be as smug when the results coincidentally falls to you.

And yes - why would that be a problem? It is easy logic - do you think, it is easier to play against a team that leaves space in behind than a team that stays deep? Do you think, it makes a difference if it is either Bayern or Nottingham doing that?

You throw one game where he seemingly had a great performance. As if this would be the be and end all for this discussion. It isn't.

 

[Shane88]

Brilliant game from Bruno. Hes the second best final third passer in Europe.

Here we go More Opta bolloxology.

 

[NZT-One]

Either that or they seriously over-analyse to their own detriment.

But let's be real, it's an agenda...

Your postings really start to piss me off. You are always taking the high road when the shit is hitting the fan but as soon as there is a good result, you come up with smug stuff like that.

 

[marktan]

Just watching the game now, he runs so much for the team, often outpacing Villa's midfielders in attacking and defending transitions.

I think what's often missed is how much heavy lifting he has to do in attack and defence due to a lack of quality in our midfield two and in our front 3. He produces attacking output that elsewise seldom comes from anyone else in the team, and he's always getting back to help the defence.

Is there any other AM in the world that does as much as he does? De Bruyne obviously due to his attacking ability. Some say Odegaard - but I'd dispute that because Saka alone does more for Arsenal's attack than our front 3 combined. We don't have that kind of player in our team. And of course he now has Rice behind him too.

I think the clearest argument for Bruno you could make is that if he left and went to say Liverpool, would we be a worse off team and would Liverpool be a better team? The answer to that is of course, yes. I really do wish we could manage his minutes better though, because all the running will catch up to his legs fast. Sooner than he thinks he'll have an Alexis Sanchez-like drop off.

 

[Scandi Red]

Your postings really start to piss me off. You are always taking the high road when the shit is hitting the fan but as soon as there is a good result, you come up with smug stuff like that.

Unfortunately for us both I've been in here on good and bad days.

Don't let that stop whatever it is you're trying to do. I'm no authority on anything in here.

 

[Who's Kissing Cameras?]

Here we go More Opta bolloxology.

No, this is my eye test. Only De Bruyne can create chances in the final third like Bruno does.

KDB also said this himself.

 

[NZT-One]

Unfortunately for us both I've been in here on good and bad days.

Don't let that stop whatever it is you're trying to do. I'm no authority on anything in here.

Seriously mate, lets put it out there: what do you think I am trying to do?

 

[Borussia Teeth]

Just watching the game now, he runs so much for the team, often outpacing Villa's midfielders in attacking and defending transitions.

I think what's often missed is how much heavy lifting he has to do in attack and defence due to a lack of quality in our midfield two and in our front 3. He produces attacking output that elsewise seldom comes from anyone else in the team, and he's always getting back to help the defence.

Is there any other AM in the world that does as much as he does? De Bruyne obviously due to his attacking ability. Some say Odegaard - but I'd dispute that because Saka alone does more for Arsenal's attack than our front 3 combined. We don't have that kind of player in our team. And of course he now has Rice behind him too.

I think the clearest argument for Bruno you could make is that if he left and went to say Liverpool, would we be a worse off team and would Liverpool be a better team? The answer to that is of course, yes. I really do wish we could manage his minutes better though, because all the running will catch up to his legs fast. Sooner than he thinks he'll have an Alexis Sanchez-like drop off.

I disagree with your last sentence. Bruno has that skinny build that tends to lengthen careers and prevent loss of speed and agility (Fernandinho, Giggs, Robben, Willian, Sheringham etc).

 

[Alemar]

Made several nice through balls today, including a pre-assist for the first goal, and another pre-assist (of sorts) via a winning corner. Good game. But we need to somehow avoid offsides, there were way too many

 

[Scandi Red]

what do you think I am trying to do?

I honestly have no idea. I just question every poster, no matter the player performance thread, when they are overly active in a rather negative manner even when the player in question has a good day. It doesn't make sense to me.

The monkey part of my brain tells me that you don't rate Bruno and would be happy to see him leave. And because of this you feel the need to constantly criticise him. But that's the monkey part of my brain. Things are rarely that simple.

 

[NZT-One]

I honestly have no idea. I just question every poster, no matter the player performance thread, when they are overly active in a rather negative manner even when the player in question has a good day. It doesn't make sense to me.

The monkey part of my brain tells me that you don't rate Bruno and would be happy to see him leave. And because of this you feel the need to constantly criticise him. But that's the monkey part of my brain. Things are rarely that simple.

But I didn't critisize him today. All I did was mentioning that the match conditions were favourable. I know we've been through a lot but if such thing is perceived as negativity then the issues are sitting on both side of the fence.

And for the record, I do rate the player. But I think, he isn't as good as some people think he is or make him out. Which is why I am skeptical if he should be in short-, mid- and longterm plans. I think, this is a pattern that you will rediscover in all my takes regarding other players and even the manager. Accusation of agenda will always drag the discussion to a personal level, I don't see any scenario where this is not a bad thing. It is weird seeing the complaining about the negativity when the actual issue is always discussions going personal.

 

[neon_badger]

It's like collective amnesia has set in and people have forgotten the numerous times Bruno has opened up tight games for us. Literally, the main reason Ole's United went from stuck in sixth, counter attacking everyone, to climbing the table. Short memories I suppose.

There's two sides to that coin. I was praising Bruno for tonight but like I say the wind was in his sails due to everyone stepping up and I'll credit Bruno for that, he instigated this response immediately after Villa's second goal, he was very impressive, this was similar to times under Solskjaer. But on the other side of that these performances are few and far between from him and his team mates, everything fell into place in the second half, what's happening when things don't fall into place? I don't intend to single him out but it's often the case that frustration engulfs him particularly against stronger opposition. Historically most of our players have played better football in the recent past it's not selective amnesia looking beyond this, it's just an acceptance of where we are.

 

[Marwood]

Well yeah it is Nottingham after all, isn't it? And as a frequent visitor of Brunos threads in the last months and years, I know that good games draw as much attentions as bad games did. Lets hope he has a good game again, won't complain. Maybe he is upping his level now. But one game isn't enough to make a trend. It is something to be happy about, no complaining about it.

I've noticed you do this quite a lot. Invent a new condition that somehow means a decent/good Bruno performance should be watered down.

I think what would be fair is if before the games takes place you can tell us if there's any reason we should somewhat disregard a positive performance from Bruno. Do it in advance.

Rather than this hindsight "yeah but...." type analysis.

 

[Devil81]

He was brilliant tonight, nowhere near the best player but he showed passion.

 

[RyRy11]

Bruno on a good day is such box office. I think he's been let down by the manager more often than not. Shunting him out of position is the best way to negate most of his world class qualities so either play him as a 10 or don't bother. I still think making him captain is having some odd psychological impact, although that's just my hunch. I just feel he plays with a chip on his shoulder too much and needs to dial it back a bit.

 

[Cutch]

Perfect match for Bruno this one. Fast front 3 against a high line and he knocked it in behind them all game. His engine is astonishing

 

[Red00012]

3 bookings now for chatting back to the ref.
Don’t want to see that in a captain.

3 fouls conceded at the edge of the box that have lead to goals also if not more

 

[Isotope]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I understand those two top circles show his tits are on heat. But what's that long vertical one?

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Why are you starting with stuff like that? Why do you come up with "mental gymnastics" and "downplay" and "mad"? I am the only one of the "level 1 critics" in here who posted today. And all I did was mentioning that the conditions suited the whole team, especially him and Rashford and Garnacho. How is that downplaying his abiltity? You want to get rid of the "negativity"? Try not to be as smug when the results coincidentally falls to you.

And yes - why would that be a problem? It is easy logic - do you think, it is easier to play against a team that leaves space in behind than a team that stays deep? Do you think, it makes a difference if it is either Bayern or Nottingham doing that?

You throw one game where he seemingly had a great performance. As if this would be the be and end all for this discussion. It isn't.

What you are doing is downplaying his ability. I don't know how you can deny it isn't a downplay when a United player puts in a very good performance vs a team above us in the table, and your level of praise amounts to "the conditions suited him today".

Call me smug all you like, but I'd much rather be smug after a United win than smug after a loss (and the latter is what a lot of posters on this thread are guilty of).

I've noticed you do this quite a lot. Invent a new condition that somehow means a decent/good Bruno performance should be watered down.

I think what would be fair is if before the games takes place you can tell us if there's any reason we should somewhat disregard a positive performance from Bruno. Do it in advance.

Rather than this hindsight "yeah but...." type analysis.

Where's the element of surprise in that though? He likes to keep us guessing.

 

[joedirt87]

It was a Bruno game. A lot of good, a lot of bad. You can afford more of the bad when you've got midfielders behind him to cover and control things.

 

[NZT-One]

I've noticed you do this quite a lot. Invent a new condition that somehow means a decent/good Bruno performance should be watered down.

Good to hear that people are so aware of certain post behaviour. But rather than "noticing", you could also read what I posted.

There was a point early second half where I wanted somebody to slap him to get him out of his whining and back to focus. Today he managed that on his own, kudos to him. He played alright, I think, his contribution against the ball wasn't the best, there were a few moments where Villa played easy triangles around him, but at the end of the day, their high line suited him to a tee. This is where he flourishes. Unfortunately, not all our opponents will lineup like that.

So how is that "watering down" a "decent/good" performance? I literally posted he was alright, is this below decent or good for you?

I think what would be fair is if before the games takes place you can tell us if there's any reason we should somewhat disregard a positive performance from Bruno. Do it in advance.

Great idea. Unfortunately, Emery and a few others don't answer my emails anymore to tell me how they are going to setup. But I am sure, you don't really need me to a) tell you that Bruno (just like 99% of all 10ish players on the planet) plays better when there is space in behind the defense and b) that Nottingham doesn't have the quality of personnel of Bayern. Or Villa or whatever. This isn't some crude rocket science or new-world tactic stuff, its basic stuff. But because it comes from somebody who isn't joining the praise, it is seen as some sort of insult. Apparently.

Rather than this hindsight "yeah but...." type analysis.

Ok, lets get rid of that type of analysis from now on. I guess, that would mean the end of statman dave tweets, wouldn't it? The end of all the "but he is the only attacker with any output" angle. The end of "at least he looked like he cared". I understand your point but you make it look as if I am the one using this unfair approach while it is used in here more than anything. By anybody.

 

[arthurka]

He is his own worst enemy. Brilliant but somehow broken.

 

[marktan]

So 60 minutes into watching the match. Summary:

- Won the ball back around 6-7 times by coming back to help the defence. So an average of once per 10 minutes. Including the one that lead to the pre-assist for Garnacho's goal.
- Gave the ball away about 5-6 times, mostly due to trying a risky pass (around 3 times) that didn't come off and the rest passing to players who were offside or not on the same wavelength. None of them were really what I'd call a waste as you can see what's getting attempted
- 4-5 good balls over the top and in behind that leaf to dangerous ball progression
- 2 pre-assists to Rashford, who then assisted Garnacho (one called off for offside)

Given both his defensive and attacking contributions, he is easily by far the most important player in the team.

If we could get a good DM, a ball playing CM behind him (like Eriksen but younger), and a good dribbling RW and ideally a more ready striker in front of him, we'd be a top team. Bad recruitment by ETH has unfortunately hampered us from really pushing on.

 

[NZT-One]

What you are doing is downplaying his ability. I don't know how you can deny it isn't a downplay when a United player puts in a very good performance vs a team above us in the table, and your level of praise amounts to "the conditions suited him today".

If you think, I am "downplaying his ability", than it must mean, that you think that your opinion of him or his ability is better, worthier, more valied, more reasonable than mine. If that is the case, we don't have to act suprise that discussing is so difficult in here. What you consider as a very good performance, to me is an alright performance. Which is what I said initially. I even rated him higher today than I usually do. I just don't know, what you considered so much better than last game? He was busy but not always effective. He moaned. He rushed passes. His quickness with passes also setup chances. His work off the ball led to a few high turnovers. In my eyes, he played mostly like he did in the last weeks. With the difference that he managed to contain himself today and didn't lose his head. And the biggest difference is the different outcome in result. In a match against Villa side that played with a high line from the start and even kept it when taking the lead. Understat has the game xG as 1.2 vs 1.84 in Villas favor. In the first 30 minutes I thought we looked clueless with the ball.

I am happy that we have seen the team fight and get rewarded today. But the overall level of football wasn't on a different scale or anything. This is, what I was trying to bring into the discussion today. Something I consider as "levelheaded" in the hope it would soften the praise a bit because if the praise is high, the gloom after the next bad game will be high again. Yet I see posters calling me out for an agenda. For negativity.

Two takeaways, let me know your take on it:
1. It doesn't matter how I phrase my points because I will get the same replies as long as I post without joining a certain level of praise.
2. Agendas must be in full force because if I have an agenda, you for sure have one too and I am sure, I can come up with 2 or 3 other posters as well. And before you even dare to think "no I can't have an agenda, I am just being levelheaded", let me assure you this is exactly how I see myself in here as well.

Call me smug all you like, but I'd much rather be smug after a United win than smug after a loss (and the latter is what a lot of posters on this thread are guilty of).

Great. So we take turns in being smug. I can live with that as long as some of you stop with the negativity-complaining then.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

was good today. won the ball for the goal too. wierdly underrated on here. the only player that creates in the whole team.

 

[Oranges038]

Played a really good game. Some nice passes and worked his ass off.

Needs to shut up when it comes to referees, stop whinging and just get on with it.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Played a really good game. Some nice passes and worked his ass off.

Needs to shut up when it comes to referees, stop whinging and just get on with it.

The ref failed to book a Villa player for the most blatant of yellow cards when he prevented Bruno from taking a quick free kick. If a captain can't complain to the ref about that then I don't know why we bother with the on-field 'captain privileges'. The fact that he got a yellow card for complaining about that is a joke, and it feels like PL refs are prone to booking Bruno more than most players in those circumstances. Do you think, in that situation, Roy Keane would've shrugged his shoulders and not shouted at the ref?

 

[bosnian_red]

Was excellent today, and is an excellent player in general who wouldn't be out of place under Fergie's teams either.

 

[Oranges038]

The ref failed to book a Villa player for the most blatant of yellow cards when he prevented Bruno from taking a quick free kick. If a captain can't complain to the ref about that then I don't know why we bother with the on-field 'captain privileges'. The fact that he got a yellow card for complaining about that is a joke, and it feels like PL refs are prone to booking Bruno more than most players in those circumstances. Do you think, in that situation, Roy Keane would've shrugged his shoulders and not shouted at the ref?

It's a different time.

His card is marked when it comes to it, so the referees will book him at the first chance just to shut him up. He really needs to just shut up and get on with it.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

It's a different time.

His card is marked when it comes to it, so the referees will book him at the first chance just to shut him up. He really needs to just shut up and get on with it.

Hardly seems fair that he gets treated differently by refs compared to other teams captains, who are allowed to complain to the ref at perceived injustices without being punished for opening their mouths. It flies in the face of the concept of impartial refereeing. Reminds me of Casemiro getting yellow cards for soft challenges that other players were allowed to get away with because they didn't have his reputation for being a 'dirty player'.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

What you consider as a very good performance, to me is an alright performance. Which is what I said initially. I even rated him higher today than I usually do. I just don't know, what you considered so much better than last game? He was busy but not always effective. He moaned. He rushed passes. His quickness with passes also setup chances. His work off the ball led to a few high turnovers. In my eyes, he played mostly like he did in the last weeks. With the difference that he managed to contain himself today and didn't lose his head. And the biggest difference is the different outcome in result. In a match against Villa side that played with a high line from the start and even kept it when taking the lead. Understat has the game xG as 1.2 vs 1.84 in Villas favor. In the first 30 minutes I thought we looked clueless with the ball.

He won the ball back a lot, created several dangerous chances, and crucially, the weight of his passes into the final third were accurate. We saw him do those things vs Chelsea 3 weeks ago, but less so vs Bournemouth and West Ham.

I am happy that we have seen the team fight and get rewarded today. But the overall level of football wasn't on a different scale or anything. This is, what I was trying to bring into the discussion today. Something I consider as "levelheaded" in the hope it would soften the praise a bit because if the praise is high, the gloom after the next bad game will be high again. Yet I see posters calling me out for an agenda. For negativity.

The gloom on here after the next bad game will be the same regardless of how much you praise him after a good game. We are emotional football fans - we have a tendency to overreact after a bad performance, so why not be a bit positive after a good performance? Radical idea, I know.

 

[Satissh12]

Bruno's been stellar almost all season for me. People are stuck in the past with his negativity. I guess it doesn't help that talksport don't actually watch games and claim it every single week relentlessly. But sure his goals/assists are way down, but he's continually creating openings, and is a serious workhorse.

Only one deserving of the armband.

This a 100 times.

Bruno works his socks off every single match. There is no one else in the team who can create like he does and yet be box to box while covering the defence. He likes to take risks and when our attackers use the chance, it looks brilliant. Somehow our front three have been lacking in this regard most season and he's got abuse for it.

It's a different time.

His card is marked when it comes to it, so the referees will book him at the first chance just to shut him up. He really needs to just shut up and get on with it.

Then he shouldn't be the captain, because he's going to moan and complain at every given opportunity. But we don't have a player who is a guaranteed starter other than him.

 

[NZT-One]

He won the ball back a lot, created several dangerous chances, and crucially, the weight of his passes into the final third were accurate. We saw him do those things vs Chelsea 3 weeks ago, but less so vs Bournemouth and West Ham.

So he did what he always does. Thats my point. I (!!!), in my personal opinion, don't think, he did better yesterday than he did in most of the last games. The biggest difference is the result. Can you understand, why I don't think, the ability of a player varies so much in the course of a few games? You don't have to agree, I'm just interested if you can follow that train of thought. Isn't it more likely (or at least just as likely) that the opposition varies and that certain conditions make it easier to shine?

The gloom on here after the next bad game will be the same regardless of how much you praise him after a good game. We are emotional football fans - we have a tendency to overreact after a bad performance, so why not be a bit positive after a good performance? Radical idea, I know.

And again, you act as if I went out of my way to kill your mood. Be as positive as you like every day of the week. I wasn't even negative last night and it still effected you? Because it really seemed like that - it seemed as if you were waiting on the first sign of not-positive-enough to place your agenda- and negativity complains. But good to know that you know the concept of overreacting in the context of bad performances.

 

[simplyared]

Great performance from him yesterday. He's the motor in our team. When he's in that mood we fire on all cylinders. Quality player! That said motm goes to Garnacho!

 

[Glorio]

Monster performance. Just needs to keep it together in adversity like he did against Villa, rather than chucking in all sense of discipline and composure, and he'll be great for us.

I do feel Eriksen makes him a better player, as he doesn't feel the need to create (force) everything and can calm down a bit.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Bottom of a long page and I’m getting no “Show Ignored Comments” prompts. So I guess the two most prolific posters in this thread have made themselves scarce after a game in which a) Bruno plays well and (crucially) b) we win, so a good performance from Bruno can’t be spun into a bad one because the team played poorly overall. Quelle surprise.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

He's so much better when he doens't feel like he has to do it all himself because a) he has actual midfielders next to him and b) our forwards are actually playing well.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

He's so much better when he doens't feel like he has to do it all himself because a) he has actual midfielders next to him and b) our forwards are actually playing well.

I think a) and b) make us better independent of Bruno’s individual performance. He played no worse than he did today in games we recently lost. For reasons that had nothing to do with him

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

So he did what he always does. Thats my point. I (!!!), in my personal opinion, don't think, he did better yesterday than he did in most of the last games. The biggest difference is the result. Can you understand, why I don't think, the ability of a player varies so much in the course of a few games? You don't have to agree, I'm just interested if you can follow that train of thought. Isn't it more likely (or at least just as likely) that the opposition varies and that certain conditions make it easier to shine?

I struggle to see it that way. Had Garnacho missed his chances and we lost yesterday, then I still would've given Bruno an 8/10, and I'd imagine most people wouldn't have given him any lower than a 6. Whereas vs Bournemouth and West Ham, his performance wouldn't have warranted any higher than a 4/10. So no - the biggest difference wasn't the result.

And again, you act as if I went out of my way to kill your mood. Be as positive as you like every day of the week. I wasn't even negative last night and it still effected you? Because it really seemed like that - it seemed as if you were waiting on the first sign of not-positive-enough to place your agenda- and negativity complains. But good to know that you know the concept of overreacting in the context of bad performances.

Mate just because someone calls you out on the negativity of your post doesn't mean they are affected by it. In the context of being a United fan who had just watched their team come back from 2-0 to win 3-2, where Bruno was instrumental in that comeback, your post seemed odd to say the least.

 

[Jeppers7]

Bottom of a long page and I’m getting no “Show Ignored Comments” prompts. So I guess the two most prolific posters in this thread have made themselves scarce after a game in which a) Bruno plays well and (crucially) b) we win, so a good performance from Bruno can’t be spun into a bad one because the team played poorly overall. Quelle surprise.

Don’t have much time for replying as I’m out over Xmas. So I’ll reply with some of your own belters….Also just for consistency from you, in 90 mins last night Bruno played 47 passes with an atrocious 66% conversion rate…..Surely not or you’d be saying things like this:


Because a match lasts 90 minutes and two great assists takes less than 90 seconds

65% in all areas of the pitch is fecking shocking. Those are Nani on a bad day stats. Absolutely diabolical for a CM. Surely they’re not accurate?!? (They weren’t)

He did play well overall though. But we know he’s capable of playing that well. If only he could be more consistent and cut out these stupid moments then he really would be as good as his fan club on here seem to think he is.

The one really big "fact" I want to see in defence is someone reminding me that I've misremembered his frankly pitiful return of two objectively MOTM displays in big games since he signed for the club. I'm honestly curious here

Are we talking goals? Turns out taking 10 penalties (it is 10, right?) in a season is good for a player's goals tally. Who'd have thunk it

And let's not forget this discussion is now getting focussed exclusively on the one thing that everyone agrees is capable of doing well. Playing one or two really great, creative passes every 90 minutes or so.

And regarding putting chances on a plate for absolute donkeys to miss:

Aubameyang is the league's top scorer but has missed 20 "big chances" this season.
Lukaku and Rashford have missed 14 each
Lacazette is on 13
Kane is on 11
Aguero on 10

Q aimed at everyone, not just the person I quoted.

Big games, against top opposition, where he stood up to be counted. Proper game changing performances. The sort of thing you'd expect from the best player at a top football club.

Anyone?

Anyone?

Bueller?

This season’s really just been the same as previous seasons. Some good games, some great games and a load of average to shit games. With the good/great games almost always against piss poor opposition.

You could make a case for him being one of our better performers but only because everyone else has been so crap. And it keeps coming back to the fact that truly great players - the type of player he is supposed to be - inspire and elevate the performance of everyone around them. Especially in the toughest fixtures. Which is laughably far removed from what’s been actually happening.

But look at the really top players who play (or used to play) in his position. They can produce a couple of passes like that in any give game and do all the other stuff at an extremely high level. It’s fecking madness that you’d give him a pass for two quality moments over 90 minutes.

Obviously we’ve far far worse players in our squad but for someone who is supposed to be the star of the bunch he underwhelms a disgraceful amount of times every season

what an arrogant prat. Telling other people what they do and don’t know about football because they have a different opinion to you about a player’s performance. Have a word with yourself

All the best pal.