Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

[BenitoSTARR]

Well, hypothetically, he might've forgiven her for faking the pictures and took the heat himself out of love Feckin unlikely of course

So essentially we are in agreement that we would all welcome him back with open arms in either of these scenarios:

1. The images, audio and all else are faked by a third party who also happens to have access to the alleged victims phone and social media. And the alleged victim confirms this via statement or otherwise.
2. The images, audio and all else are faked by the alleged victim and Greenwood himself is actually the victim of I guess blackmail by his partner? And in spite of this has decided to take the rap as an alleged rapist, lose his career at his boyhood club and start a family with this same woman rather than fight this in courts. And also has been happy to say in his public statement: "I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship, and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post.”

I would appreciate anyone else adding to these two scenarios if they believe he should come back with the conditions that they would accept his return under.

edit: adding in Greenwood’s quote

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Loads of people would accept that I think.

Loads of people would accept it if they said the whole thing was - somehow - staged by aliens.

Point is - you have to actually say something.

 

[Raoul]

So essentially we are in agreement that we would all welcome him back with open arms in either of these scenarios:

1. The images, audio and all else are faked by a third party who also happens to have access to the alleged victims phone and social media. And the alleged victim confirms this via statement or otherwise.
2. The images, audio and all else are faked by the alleged victim and Greenwood himself is actually the victim of I guess blackmail by his partner? And in spite of this has decided to take the rap as an alleged rapist, lose his career at his boyhood club and start a family with this same woman rather than fight this in courts. And also has been happy to say in his public statement: "I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship, and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post.”

I would appreciate anyone else adding to these two scenarios if they believe he should come back with the conditions that they would accept his return under.

edit: adding in Greenwood’s quote

On point 2, it would definitely take some sort of mea culpa from Greenwood himself. Even if hypothetically there were other circumstances at play, he will still be viewed as the central focus of all of this, and as such, would need to make a statement similar to the sentence you proposed.

 

[Rood]

Funny given I've been connected to such internal company investigations a couple of times.

then I don't understand why you try to connect the internal investigation to the criminal case when it's completely seperate

 

[Red00012]

Question back. Would anyone want him anywhere near us if he wasn't good at football?

Clearly not , We have enough of those at the club ???

 

[Leftback99]

Clearly not , We have enough of those at the club ???

Everyone deserves a second chance though right? Or does that only count if you're good.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

So essentially we are in agreement that we would all welcome him back with open arms in either of these scenarios:

1. The images, audio and all else are faked by a third party who also happens to have access to the alleged victims phone and social media. And the alleged victim confirms this via statement or otherwise.
2. The images, audio and all else are faked by the alleged victim and Greenwood himself is actually the victim of I guess blackmail by his partner? And in spite of this has decided to take the rap as an alleged rapist, lose his career at his boyhood club and start a family with this same woman rather than fight this in courts. And also has been happy to say in his public statement: "I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship, and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post.”

I would appreciate anyone else adding to these two scenarios if they believe he should come back with the conditions that they would accept his return under.

edit: adding in Greenwood’s quote

I don’t think it’s faked (so that’s 1 and 2). I think the released video/audio was part of a longer one that might have changed the overall take but doesn’t change what he said at all

 

[Shakesy]

So essentially we are in agreement that we would all welcome him back with open arms in either of these scenarios:

1. The images, audio and all else are faked by a third party who also happens to have access to the alleged victims phone and social media. And the alleged victim confirms this via statement or otherwise.
2. The images, audio and all else are faked by the alleged victim and Greenwood himself is actually the victim of I guess blackmail by his partner? And in spite of this has decided to take the rap as an alleged rapist, lose his career at his boyhood club and start a family with this same woman rather than fight this in courts. And also has been happy to say in his public statement: "I fully accept I made mistakes in my relationship, and I take my share of responsibility for the situations which led to the social media post.”

I would appreciate anyone else adding to these two scenarios if they believe he should come back with the conditions that they would accept his return under.

edit: adding in Greenwood’s quote

This is absurd.

I'm 99% certain that:

• Greenwood is guilty of having done horrible things
• She's forgiven him
• He's a changed man

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Everyone deserves a second chance though right? Or does that only count if you're good.

Your logic makes no sense. Shit players should be sold because they're shit, regardless of off-the-field issues.

 

[Withnail]

This is absurd.

I'm 99% certain that:

• Greenwood is guilty of having done horrible things
• She's forgiven him
• He's a changed man

They don't change

 

[Shakesy]

They don't change

Some obviously do

 

[Raoul]

I'm 99% certain that:

• Greenwood is guilty of having done horrible things
• She's forgiven him
• He's a changed man

Probably the likeliest scenario imo.

 

[cafecillos]

Exactly, she's forgiven him so who are we to judge, right? We don't know what she had to forgive him for, but that's okay.

 

[Withnail]

Some obviously do

Very few apparently. I've done a bit of reading on the subject and it's a peculiarity of domestic abusers. They tend not to admit they did anything wrong or that anything was their fault and, as a consequence, there is little hope for rehabilitation or for them to change their behaviour.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

On point 2, it would definitely take some sort of mea culpa from Greenwood himself. Even if hypothetically there were other circumstances at play, he will still be viewed as the central focus of all of this, and as such, would need to make a statement similar to the sentence you proposed.

I think it’d take something from her as well.

 

[Raoul]

I think it’d take something from her as well.

Agreed. It would be far more compelling if they both did it.

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

Agreed. It would be far more compelling if they both did it.

But would be very difficult from her point of view. I could see her getting stick from people who think she’s sold out women who’ve been abused by ‘letting him off’ or who think she’s deluded or (on the other side), think she could have said something to help Mason sooner.

Tough.

 

[Red00012]

Everyone deserves a second chance though right? Or does that only count if you're good.

No idea what you’re trying to get at

 

[Rood]

I’d argue that the very public nature of this case adds a level of complexity that most internal investigations never have to consider. And so while* I agree with you that there are absolutely different levels here we’ve got a particularly weird case. For starters in most companies you are not an asset on their books.

If United come out and say contract terminated they are essentially saying he’s guilty and I’d argue open themselves up far more than if they just say we don’t think he did it and try and sweep it under the rug. Especially given charges are dropped United have very little incentive to act as judge and jury.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

You are right, this case is unique in many ways but United could have terminated his contact for far lesser offences than anything he was charged with so it wouldn't necessarily imply guilt on that level.

But yes he is an asset with value so that will come into play. And if the alleged victim is accepting the not guilty verdict then there is little incentive for the club to push much further than that.

 

[Rood]

Out of curiosity, what would be your red line for not having him return ? As in, what is the specific piece of evidence or admission that would sway you in the opposite direction ?

Her/her family's stance is the most important factor for me so if they were wanting to press charges and still saying he's guilty then that would be it for me.

I have not voted in the poll, for me it's too simplistic to be a 'Yes' or 'No' at this point and my answer is a fence sitting 'Maybe'.

As far as I'm concerned he's currently on probation and I will assess after the season is over from both a footballing and off field perspective.

 

[Amsterdam Devil]

A question for the Greenwood outers/ those who are not sure.

Imagine he signed for a team like Barcelona this summer, and spent the next three seasons being one of the best in the world: being nominated for the balon d’or, 35+ goal interventions etc. then left them on a free transfer. No other criminal charges, was still with his child’s mother, kept his head down and seemed much more down to earth.

Would you take him back then?

What a strange ‘what if’ question.

What about the other side? Imagine we welcome him back and after three years his wife leaves him and she writes a book how she was raped and beat all these years.

It doesn’t help to make up stories in this case like you are doing with your ‘what if’ situation.

 

[Rood]

You didn't provide any info I was unaware of.

Are you saying that you were aware of the details of the internal investigation in The Athletic article?

You knew there was a 5 person committee and that the club had access to phone records, witness statements etc ?

I'll await your answer to this before replying to the rest of that post as I had put your factual inaccuracies about the investigation down to simple ignorance but if you were aware then that's much worse.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

You are right, this case is unique in many ways but United could have terminated his contact for far lesser offences than anything he was charged with so it wouldn't necessarily imply guilt on that level.

But yes he is an asset with value so that will come into play. And if the alleged victim is saying he's not guilty then there is little incentive for the club to push much further than that.

But in the full context Rood we both know how a contract termination rightly or wrongly would be interpreted.

I know how I would interpret it for one. This isn’t some scandal at a local solicitor firm it’s a national and international “story” when considering United’s appeal.

The victim hasn’t ever said he’s not guilty. So again let’s just be clear with our language here.

 

[Rood]

But in the full context Rood we both know how a contract termination rightly or wrongly would be interpreted.

I know how I would interpret it for one. This isn’t some scandal at a local solicitor firm it’s a national and international “story” when considering United’s appeal.

The victim hasn’t ever said he’s not guilty. So again let’s just be clear with our language here.

I guess the verdict would be accompanied by a detailed statement so it would depend what exactly it said, although TBF the club failed miserably with the wording of the previous statements so perhaps we would be none the wiser.

Ok fair enough on the last point - I've reworded it.

 

[Shakesy]

Very few apparently. I've done a bit of reading on the subject and it's a peculiarity of domestic abusers. They tend not to admit they did anything wrong or that anything was their fault and, as a consequence, there is little hope for rehabilitation or for them to change their behaviour.

That's feckin grim

 

[BenitoSTARR]

I guess the verdict would be accompanied by a detailed statement so it would depend what exactly it said, although TBF the club failed miserably with the wording of the previous statements so perhaps we would be none the wiser.

Ok fair enough on the last point - I've reworded it.

@Rood there also wasn’t a not guilty verdict.

Unless you’re referring to the internal club investigation which again I think it’s disingenuous to use that specific phrasing for that kind of investigation on the forum.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

Voted no as much as I think he’s the best academy talent since Giggs and he’d massively improve this team. The climate for the family in England that the media frenzy would create wouldn’t be good for anyone. If his family want to have a chance at a better life, they’ll be best off trying to do that at a top club in Spain, Italy or Germany.

 

[Shakesy]

Fascinating how the proportion of Yes and No votes has remained the same right from the start

 

[Rood]

@Rood there also wasn’t a not guilty verdict.

Unless you’re referring to the internal club investigation which again I think it’s disingenuous to use that specific phrasing for that kind of investigation on the forum.

The entire discussion for the past day or so is about the internal investigation which found him 'not guilty' so it's absolutely valid here

 

[BenitoSTARR]

The entire discussion for the past day or so is about the internal investigation which found him 'not guilty' so it's absolutely valid here

As long as we’re being clear that this is an internal club investigation verdict and in no way constitutes a legal clearing of any of the alleged offences.

I just wouldn’t want anyone reading to be misled.

 

[Rood]

Voted no as much as I think he’s the best academy talent since Giggs and he’d massively improve this team. The climate for the family in England that the media frenzy would create wouldn’t be good for anyone. If his family want to have a chance at a better life, they’ll be best off trying to do that at a top club in Spain, Italy or Germany.

Voted no as much as I think he’s the best academy talent since Giggs and he’d massively improve this team. The climate for the family in England that the media frenzy would create wouldn’t be good for anyone. If his family want to have a chance at a better life, they’ll be best off trying to do that at a top club in Spain, Italy or Germany.

This is part of the reason why I have not voted. Im open to his return but don't think he can come back unless something is done to calm the media frenzy because it would be too disruptive for the rest of the squad.

 

[BoulderDevil]

Doesn’t matter what the fans want. What’s best is what the family wants and what situation they will be the happiest in. Too many people on here get caught up in arguments with each other about who knows what is best for them. It’s actually quite pathetic. Only they know the answer to the question of what is the best move.

 

[BristolMick]

Is there a link to any of the previous poll results? Just to see the change/difference between them?

 

[Shakesy]

Doesn’t matter what the fans want. What’s best is what the family wants and what situation they will be the happiest in. Too many people on here get caught up in arguments with each other about who knows what is best for them. It’s actually quite pathetic. Only they know the answer to the question of what is the best move.

 

[Raoul]

Is there a link to any of the previous poll results? Just to see the change/difference between them?

Last summer's poll:

Q: Do you want Mason Greenwood to return next year?

Yes - 406 votes (46.1%)
No - 475 votes (53.9%)

Total voters: 881

 

[11101]

My preferred poll choice would be dont mind or care. If the club wants him back then I'll support the decision, if they don't then so be it. I think the storm has blown over now so it won't be too difficult for the club to focus purely on his footballing merit, where he's shown at Getafe he's still got ability but isn't likely to fulfil the early superstar potential he once had.

 

[Rood]

Last summer's poll:

Q: Do you want Mason Greenwood to return next year?

Yes - 406 votes (46.1%)
No - 475 votes (53.9%)

Total voters: 881

I think I missed that original poll, was this after the club announced he was leaving?

Might be worth putting in the title here that there is a new poll, even people in this thread seem not to have realised !

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

My preferred poll choice would be dont mind or care. If the club wants him back then I'll support the decision, if they don't then so be it. I think the storm has blown over now so it won't be too difficult for the club to focus purely on his footballing merit, where he's shown at Getafe he's still got ability but isn't likely to fulfil the early superstar potential he once had.

Watching him vs. Sevilla and hearing Griezmann talk about him after playing Atletico, I can’t disagree more.
Doing this at just 22 years old in a new league, after 18 months out of the game & with “meh” teammates is absolutely incredible.
Fully expect him to sign for one of the top three Spanish clubs this Summer.

 

[Raoul]

I think I missed that original poll, was this after the club announced he was leaving?

Might be worth putting in the title here that there is a new poll, even people in this thread seem not to have realised !

I think this one was done around July.

 

[ROFLUTION]

What could she say though? "those pics were fake"?

Its a case of a cluster of topics. But that is a good point. She cant say much due to legal reasons only stuff about it all in general. Which has to be really well coordinated/well prepared to not get into PR havoc/too much unwarranted attention. But we need something.

Just some words in general from them both would be nice. Cant see how MG can possibly have a career at United without it, as it’s the victim’s way of viewing it all to allow him/us to even entertain the notion of him playing at United. But it’s more complex than just that, because we just don’t know if she’s been toxic too and we’re only seeing one side of the story.

Some parts of this case is like being part of the movie “12 angry men”, but without knowing any information or just very little at all. Not even any bigger context and we can’t even get that. So how can we really say how bad MG is?