"Only in tHEATers, this fall."
Film HEAT 2
- Thread starter Salt Bailly
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
#HeToo
Can't see this working. Mann has only directed two films since Public Enemies was released in 2009, both being financial disasters and receiving average reviews. I haven't seen Ferrari yet, but Blackhat was really disappointing to put it mildly.
toucheMann + fans of the original + anyone who's anyone in Hollywood wanting to star in the film will guarantee its success. It's also already a novel and its reviews have been excellent. I've not read it yet but it's next on my list.
Except Mann clearly isn't a guarantee of success anymore, neither financial or quality wise. And maybe fans of the original will make it into a financial success, but they obviously won't impact the quality of the film, which is what I care about. But yeah, the reviews for the novel were very good at least, so there's hope I guess.
I don't know who this Simmons person is but he sounds a bit thick
He's a huge sports writer in the US, mostly NBA and NFL, who's been in the podcast game long and one of the first to start a big company focusing on it. Currently an executive for Spotify. Here's a quote of his that's fairly recent from that gig, explaining his frustration with the company's decision employing the Markle's:I only found out about him because his Heat review has over 250,000 views! I can understand not getting some of the themes. A lot of what I see in Mann films started off from reading other peoples takes and then trying to find something new in the rewatches. But the diner scene is very on the nose.
His one criticism of the film is that Val Kilmer didn’t run fast enough to the car after the bank robbery.
He comes across as a guy who’s not really thought much about the film or looked at everyone else opinion of it. Which is fine but also kind of strange given how popular the review is. Plus just seeing it as a all star heist film really misses out what makes it a masterpiece.
It’s a really good film so…..you will hate it! But really it worth a rewatch and imo its brilliant.
Has he ever been? Ali had a budget of $100m+ and made less than $90m at the box office. The Insider made $60m off a $70m+ budget. The quality is always there, its just whether or not the audience clicks with it. I won't comment on Blackhat as I've never seen it but even that appears to have been under-appreciated according to @Sweet Square, and he PHD'd in this guy.
I don't think he would've bothered with the novel if he wasn't sure if its quality and likewise for the film.
Sequels always have an impact on the original
They should make Al Pacino and De Niro young again (Irishman style). And do a prequel. But then they would never met in the first place…shite. 
Netflix would be more than happy to splurge $300m on this. Again.They should make Al Pacino and De Niro young again (Irishman style). And do a prequel. But then they would never met in the first place…shite.
I'm starting to think I missed something in my multiple viewings..... I was pretty yong tbf
No, he hasn't.
I'm a big Michael Mann fan, Heat is my favorite movie of all time, and The Insider is probably in my top 5, but honestly the quality isn't always there. Blackhat was not a good movie, it was surprisingly bad coming from a director as skilled as Mann. And Ali and especially Miami Vice weren't great movies either, though it's been a long time since I saw the former, and I do have a bit of a soft spot for the latter despite its flaws.
I totally get your hesitation to get excited in that case, I'm not so much a Mann fan, more a Heat fan. I'm surprised that you haven't read the novel though in that case. What's holding you back?
I'm just not a big reader. He's an outstanding filmmaker at his best though, so if the film does get made I'm hoping for the best.
Fingers crossed.
Like what? Prequels/Sequels often suck but I can't think of any that change my view of the original.
It was a pisstake of US militarism and glorification of war. The book is very pro-fascist.
The film also works on violent cheesy war film level though, just as Robocop holds up as an action movie if the humour doesn't float your boat.
I hate to break this to you, but it would appear to be that you're a big fan of overt fascism and possibly a hardcore follower of one "Adolf Hitler". You have my deepest sympathies.
Yep
Agree. Your spot on here. It’s just way over their heads.
Mann newest work Ferrari was imo the best film of 2023. The guy is still producing incredible movies so personally I don’t have any worries about a Heat sequel.
The issues I can see with Heat 2 in terms of appealing to a mainstream audience is Mann is a futurist artist nerd who isn’t interested in simply recreating something again and he doesn’t care about what critics or audiences think(He is the Enzo Ferrari of American films). Where as the original Heat is a very traditional big Hollywood film with its structure, all star cast, epic bank robbery set pieces, multiple characters storylines, quotable one liners. It’s a moving novel set in LA. It’s likely Heat 2 will probably not look, sound or barely reference the original at least not explicitly and that’s going to annoying a lot of people.
In the same way critics and audiences went to see 2006 Miami Vice with the hopes of reliving some 80’s nostalgia and instead got a
$100+ million budget meditative piece that’s more like an art installation. Resulting in only a few truly chosen ones seeing the truth/light that Miami Vice is one of the greatest films of the 21st century.
And then how much of the popularity of Heat was more to do with the era it was came out in rather than the substance of the film. Did the Bill Simmons of the world go and watch Heat because it was the early 90’s. Movie stars carried more pull and seemed cool, the internet and video games didn’t exist and the quality of a VHS was 240p. Going to the cinema was one of the few fun things to do.
And then personally for the millions of Bill Simmons in 1995 they were younger, thinner and probably happier. Micheal Mann might be a god on earth. A man who should replace the pope but his films aren’t going to rid American dads of their middle age beer belly and their wives who rarely put out due to mild disgusted and disappointment.
Yep I your spot on here. It’s just way over their heads.
Yeah both great movies. I caught the subtext but thought there might have been more I missed. I bet the book goes more in depth, any good?
FFS not again! I'll go and shower it off
Its one of those films that gets better with each watch....always revealing something new and interesting with each pass.
It’ll be crap.
You can’t replace Pacino and De Niro with less and expect to get a stand out movie.
Leave one the best ever alone and don’t reheat it.
You can’t replace Pacino and De Niro with less and expect to get a stand out movie.
Leave one the best ever alone and don’t reheat it.
Agreed. It was a great script and execution by Mann, but it was also a perfect storm in terms of getting De Niro and Pacino to play the leads. Especially given that both actors were at their respective career peaks during that period.
I know everyone talks about the bank heist being the best scene but I actually prefer the hold up at the start. So many great scenes in that film though.
You’d expect that it could be based around Val Kilmer’s character as some sort off reference, but there’s no way to replicate the original.
A classic will always be a classic and some rehash shouldn’t detract from that.
That’s only my opinion off course.
Get Di Caprio in it, take advice from those who managed to pull off Better call Saul after Breaking Bad - and it might stand a chance
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
It's extremely debatable to say they were at their peaks. Both Pacino and De Niro's best work came in the 70s.
They're not doing anything to the original. The original will always be there even if the sequel is shit.
And considering it's Mann, it probably won't be shit.
Of course everything is debatable, but both were at their acting zeniths in the 90s since it was their work in the preceding decades that got them there. De Niro was just coming off Goodfellas, Casino, and Bronx Tale when Heat was filmed. Pacino off of Glengarry Glenross, Scent of a Woman, and Carlito's Way and just before Donnie Brasco. The films of the 70s were obviously very good as well, but probably not as frequent as the amount of work they were doing in the 90s.
De Niro peaked in the year 2000 when he asked Gaylord Fokker if his nipples could be milked.
I am sure the restaurant scene was mentioned already.
There are also so many great little scenes. Like Al Pacino kicking the TV out of his car.
Cats make you work for their affection.
Poor Ralph
The surveillance scene is under appreciated. There’s so much tension during it. Also has my favourite shot in the move -
Thats how I imagine Fergie’s hairdryers looked like.
That and the dueling surveillance scene in the shipyard. Both incredibly well done. The film is just such a masterpiece on so many levels.The surveillance scene is under appreciated. There’s so much tension during it. Also has my favourite shot in the move -
Another gem or when not long after Pacino realises that they're being photographed. "I mean is this guy something or is he something. This crew is good"The surveillance scene is under appreciated. There’s so much tension during it. Also has my favourite shot in the move -