Barbie fans losing their shit over Gerwig and Robbie being snubbed is funny when you look at the list of absolute masterpieces that were completely overlooked by the Academy in their day.
Film HEAT 2
- Thread starter Salt Bailly
- Start date
Its very political imo. Certain films check all the boxes for the elites who decide this stuff.
Al Pacino slowly realisation is so good as is De Niro smirk at the end. The core genius of the film was to make the cops and robbers equals. With Mann keeping the balance between the two groups all the way to the end.
Watching the film for the first time not knowing how it ends is one of the best film experiences ever.
Most of the best/important films tend to never get nominated/win Oscars. It’s very cliche to say but the test of time is really the best answer.
For whatever reason Micheal Mann never gets nominated for Oscars. He has got one nomination for The Insider which was over 20 years ago but nothing else. Yet he is clearly one of America greatest directors. Also as @Raoul said it’s very political. I’ve read before that it’s pretty rare the judges will even watch all films nominated. It wouldn’t surprise me if Barbie wins as they hope it might boost future viewing numbers.
Btw for anyone interested Braverheart won best picture 1995 (Babe The Pig got picked over Heat
).Y'all making me wanna rewatch Heat again for the 92844783th time. And it will always be fantastic.
Like a fine wine....
I've just had to check this and you're right. That is insane.Btw for anyone interested Braverheart won best picture 1995 (Babe The Pig got picked over Heat
The story line about Van Zant was so left field.
All he had to do was accept getting his bonds back and he’d be a winner, but no, he had to go with the age old, “don’t negotiate with terrorists” to prove a point. Brilliant I thought.
All he had to do was accept getting his bonds back and he’d be a winner, but no, he had to go with the age old, “don’t negotiate with terrorists” to prove a point. Brilliant I thought.
I wonder if Goldenthal is coming onto this project.
I don’t know enough about Oscar history but Heat has to be its biggest mistake. Although just from a quick google Heat didn’t do well in any award show(Did ok at the numbers wise - 25th highest box office in 95).
Crazy looking back.
Crash won 3 Oscars. I'd take Babe over that turd every day of the week.Btw for anyone interested Braverheart won best picture 1995 (Babe The Pig got picked over Heat
The mid 2000s movie? I like it
Racism explained to white people by middle aged white blokes (the same demographic who mainly vote for the Oscars). Even the white savior stuff that is so common, such as Green Book (which was also a much better film if you ignore how on the nose the former white bigot saves black bloke tropes were) is less patronizing.
People can be strange when it comes to cinema. Shawshank Redemption flopped at the box office for example. But to rank a film about a fecking talking Pig above Heat? Lunacy.
It's a brilliant opening scene, setting the tone.
That is a brilliant shot and the scene also underlines how the team has complete faith in McCauley's judgement, walking on his say so. His professionalism definitely undermined by the emotional decision to take out Waingro- could argue it was out of character at a push or was he just being thorough?The surveillance scene is under appreciated. There’s so much tension during it. Also has my favourite shot in the move -
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Yeah it's a car crash of a film (no pun intended), but Green Book is almost just as bad. My favourite part is when the white bigoted guy teaches the black guy how to make fried chicken.
That wasn't good. Just easier to be a bit less uncomfortable because the stars are so likable maybe?
Possibly! I mean I love both of them, Viggo is an incredible actor (and a fascinating individual), and Mahershala Ali is wonderful, so it definitely helps. But when you strip the film apart... yeah, not great. It's sort of watchable, but if you scratch the surface, it's icky. And definitely not "best film of the year" worthy.
I’ve never watched it but hears some very bad things.
Oh I didn’t know that. I’m always surprised at how many great films were flops to start with.
I think it’s this. Going after Waingro is worth the risk because the Waingro character is the antithesis of everything Di Niro stands for. Waingro is bad at his job which is the worst thing anyone can be in a Micheal Mann film. It’s a way to clean up the profession and keep up high standards.
Di Niro answers his own famous quote - "Don't let yourself get attached to anything you are not willing to walk out on in 30 seconds flat if you feel the heat around the corner." In the end he was too attached to his job.
Which one? Babe or Crash?
Babe is really great for what it is, and darker than it appears on the surface. I'm sure it's a prequel to Mad Max and James Cromwell turns out to be one of Immortan Joe's War Boys.
Oh I haven’t seen Crash. I’ve only seen Babe once and liked it. I didn’t know anything about the darker side. Might be worth rewatching. I do love the Mad Max connection.
The Mad Max connection is just in my deranged mind. The darker side is just little snippets sprinkled throughout the film you don't necessarily notice as a kid, but are more visible upon an adult rewatch. It's a fun little film, and Miller's filmography is really interesting to look at.
As for Crash, avoid like the plague. No redeeming qualities. Disgusting film.
But he does stick to his mantra and walk out on the woman after that.
Tbf James Cromwell would have great in Mad Max. I’ll have to give Babe a rewatch a some point. To do Babe and Happy Feet then Fury Road is wild.
Cheers will do.
Definitely. Imo Di Niro character was more comfortable walking out on the woman he claims to love than letting someone who is unprofessional work again. The thing he could never let go was his dedication to the job.
It’s the same for Pacino as well. Who has pretty much lost everything by the end of the film and his pursuit of Di Niro is down to pride and dedication to policing.
It’s probably why the best scene(Although not my favourite)is the diner meeting. Where both men admit they know their jobs are completely fecking up everything but they don’t know how to do anything and they don’t want to do anything else.
Crash is one if my favourite novels and films, so I need to keep reminding myself you're not being critical of Cronenberg's sexually , twisted masterpiece.
Agree with this and what I do particularly enjoy about that admission from the both of them is the fact it's not dramatic at all. They almost find it amusing, and exchange a wry smile if I recall correctly. It's just... what it is, and there's no point fighting it or being dramatic about it.
Thief is great by the way.
One of very few films that actually made me angry.
Yep the admission is brilliantly done. I think Mann actual politics are Democratic Party liberal and he spends lot of time driving his Ferrari around LA. But his are films are pure old Soviet economic determinism.
The diner is the pinnacle of this with the two men fully aware of their class position. They have not only accept this but pushed beyond to embracing it. They know there’s no changing paths now. Incredible film making.
James Cann in Thief is maybe my favourite Mann character.
Also the brilliant Tangerine Dream synth score won a razzie for the worst soundtrack of the year in 1981.
Yeah, the daughter suicide scene is another great one. Felt like out of nowhere and nothing to do with the plot and then blam! 5 minutes or so of intense stuff. Such a good movie.
I love the film but I absolutely despise that scene.
Considering the heist was in broad daylight, in a busy Los Angeles street ,you don't have your police force tempt a spaghetti western style shootout where civilians get caught in the crossfire, which I think happens from what I recall.
I listened to a podcast a few years back where they had a retired, respected high ranking officer comment on his favourite films, one being Mann's HEAT and, whenever this scene comes on, he generally rolls his eyes over the execution. He say's, something along the lines of " We would just follow/tail them. They only robbed a bank. You don't force a war zone in a civilian area. Its negligent ".
But outside of that, I love the film. The atmosphere, the composition of certain shots, Goldenthal's score. Comfortably my favourite Mann film and one of my favourite cop drama's.
To Live and Die in L.A is still top dog though, even with the tacked on ending involving Vukovich , following the same path of his dead partner, is far too on the nose for my liking.
I tend to blank that scene out,tbh.
" Both robbers were killed, twelve police officers and eight civilians were injured, and numerous vehicles and other property were damaged or destroyed by the nearly 2,000 rounds of ammunition fired by the robbers and police.[1] "I love the film but I absolutely despise that scene.
Considering the heist was in broad daylight, in a busy Los Angeles street ,you don't have your police force tempt a spaghetti western style shootout where civilians get caught in the crossfire, which I think happens from what I recall.
I listened to a podcast a few years back where they had a retired, respected high ranking officer comment on his favourite films, one being Mann's HEAT and, whenever this scene comes on, he generally rolls his eyes over the execution. He say's, something along the lines of " We would just follow/tail them. They only robbed a bank. You don't force a war zone in a civilian area. Its negligent ".
But outside of that, I love the film. The atmosphere, the composition of certain shots, Goldenthal's score. Comfortably my favourite Mann film and one of my favourite cop drama's.
To Live and Die in L.A is still top dog though, even with the tacked on ending involving Vukovich , following the same path of his dead partner, is far too on the nose for my liking.
I tend to blank that scene out,tbh.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
Well, well. I still deslike the scene but I guess Mann just brought our attention to the Police forces own recklessness of the situation and places the audience own doubts on whether 'the good guys' aren't just as careless.
For the record, HEAT came out before that shootout.
This is the real life shootout from the 60’s that Heat references.
Where does Manhunter sit in peoples top 5 Mann films ?
HEAT is a decent film.
Haven't seen it in probably 10 years but it's obviously completely went over my head whatever it is disgusts you.
Another great one is when Al Pacino spots and realizes its DeNiro’s girlfriend waiting in the car. Then DeNiro spots Al Pacino and 30 second rule gets activated. That was awesome.