Balkan Discussion

What did Kurti do?
The mayors of 4 Northern small municipalities coming from Lista Srbska (a party totally controlled by Vucic but who gets around 90% of the votes from Serbians in Kosovo) resigned. Kosovo declared new elections in those 4 municipalities, but Lista Srbska boycotted the elections, forcing Kosovo to postpone the elections until the last day that is constitutionally allowed. Lista Srbska boycotted elections again, as did the vast majority of the Serbian population (I think only 13 Serbs voted). In the elections, only around 3.5% of people voted, mostly from Albanians and Bisniak communities. Which kinda makes clear that the new mayors were legal but without much legitimacy.

EU as always asked for a non-solution, not doing the elections which based on the constitution cannot be done. The US were much more pragmatic, they asked for the new mayors to have a technical, but not political role, which I think should have been the most obvious thing to do.

However, Kurti, as always, had different plans. The mayors were sent into the municipalities, despite that there was a protest from Serbian people living there in 3 out of the 4 municipalities. They didn't want the new mayors to enter the municipality building, after which the Kosovan police intervened, and mayors went in.

Pretty much everyone was against this happening: Antony Blinken himself tweeted and then the Department of State posted a communication asking Kurti to de-escalate the situation, for the mayors to not enter with force, and threatening that this even will have consequences in the relations between the US and Kosovo. This is basically the worst thing that can happen to Kosovo, considering that the US has been the main sponsor of Kosovo, and Kosovo is still defended (primarily) by the US. It seems clear that the US ambassador had already strongly advised Kurti to not do this, and instead, the mayors to do their technical role from some village that is inhabited by Albanians. If Kurti had some dignity, he should have resigned immediately after Blinken's tweet.

Kurti was unanimously condemned for this act. Borrell tweeted against this (but the EU as an institution is a joke when it comes to foreign policy, just look at the laughable Ohrid's deal), and the US, the UK, Germany, France, and Italy made a joined declaration asking all sides to de-escalate, and Kosovo government to not use the police for the mayors to enter (essentially, the US option). Even the UK, which generally is much more supportive of Kosovo than the US, said the same in an individual declaration by their ambassador. And some consul of Germany for Kosovo-Serbia dialogue said literally 'Not all legal things are smart, stop doing stupid things'.

In other words, what Kurti did was legal in terms of the constitution and all that stuff. But considering that at this moment in time, everyone (primarily the US) is against it, it was absolutely idiotic to act this way. The reward is non-existent (those municipalities are completely inhabited by Serbians and extremely small and irrelevant), and the risk was very high. A normal politician does not do these things, and sees the greater picture. But Kurti has always been an irrational actor, who does stupid things, without a clear agenda of 'what would Kosovo win, and what can it lose'. This happening at a time when New York Times had that article about Vucic, and Vucic is having the largest opposition demonstration against this, and still making Vucic looking like the nice guy and the serious partner in negotiations, is unforgivable. It is idiotic.

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Today, there was a demonstration in one of these municipalities. Serbians asked for KFOR (NATO) to replace Kosovan police. After this happened, Serbian demonstrators attacked KFOR. Around 20 KFOR soldiers are injured, and around 50 Serbians (apparently one of them is at risk of dying). Absolute lunacy!
 
USA and UK are slowly pushing towards dissolution of Bosnia and Herzegovina, continuing with strange appeasement policies of Serbia that they have already demonstrated in both Kosovo and Montenegro.

Foreign policy about Bosnia is definitely to allow Serbs and Croats to shape it the way they want, with Bosniaks almost having no say.

Bosnian Serb leader Milorad Dodik is enthusiastic supporter of Putin, as is Serbian leader Vučić. Bosnian HDZ branch also has ties to Russia, mostly due to their separatistic agendas.

USA has sent Gabriel Escobar and some similar shitheads, Germany has sent Christian Schmidt as High Representative who has destroyed any idea of multiethnic, pluralistic society and Bosniaks are now literally stuck against the wall.

It's either watch the country dissolve peacefully, or fight and be portrayed in the whole world as agressive Islamic terrorists/barbarians.
 
Interesting how the Western countries call upon territorial integrity for Ukraine, whilst recognising Kosovo as an independent country. If Kosovo can be independent, then Crimea and Donbas can join Russia.

Double standards and all that.
 
Interesting how the Western countries call upon territorial integrity for Ukraine, whilst recognising Kosovo as an independent country. If Kosovo can be independent, then Crimea and Donbas can join Russia.

Double standards and all that.

Aren't 90% of people in Kosovo, actually ethnic Albanians (as opposed to less than 2% ethnic Serbs). And consequently its 90% Muslim.

Also, didn't they fight a war over this question ?
 
Aren't 90% of people in Kosovo, actually ethnic Albanians (as opposed to less than 2% ethnic Serbs). And consequently its 90% Muslim.

Also, didn't they fight a war over this question ?

He is attempting to point out hypocrisy by conflating two utterly different things. I’d also bet he thinks his post is some kind of incredible Gotcha that has left us all reeling.
 
He is attempting to point out hypocrisy by conflating two utterly different things. I’d also bet he thinks his post is some kind of incredible Gotcha that has left us all reeling.

Do explain how they are different things

I do not think my post left you reeling but the situation on the battlefield just might
 
Do explain how they are different things

I do not think my post left you reeling but the situation on the battlefield just might

Weird that you'd use the situation on the battlefield as some kind of weird point scoring exercise
 
Weird that you forgot the first part of my post

You're just parroting the nationalist rhetoric that's so common in your country's press. Kosovo and Ukraine can't be compared. But i also know there is zero chance of you acknowledging that.
 
You're just parroting the nationalist rhetoric that's so common in your country's press. Kosovo and Ukraine can't be compared. But i also know there is zero chance of you acknowledging that.

Certainly not with this kind of arguments. I'm French :lol:
 
Then i'm sure you'll agree just how lovely it is that the Kosovans have finally freed themselves from that poisonous Serbian control.

Looks like you're the one who soaked up too much "nationalist rhetoric" from your country's media :smirk:
 
Just stumbled upon this great quote from 1853, at the start of the Crimean war between Russia and Turkey (supported by Western powers).

I must say it raises interesting points :

France takes Algeria from Turkey, and almost every year England annexes another Indian principality: none of this disturbs the balance of power; but when Russia occupies Moldavia and Wallachia, albeit only temporarily, that disturbs the balance of power. France occupies Rome and stays there several years during peacetime: that is nothing; but Russia only thinks of occupying Constantinople, and the peace of Europe is threatened. The English declare war on the Chinese, who have, it seems, offended them: no one has the right to intervene; but Russia is obliged to ask Europe for permission if it quarrels with its neighbour. England threatens Greece to support the false claims of a miserable Jew and burns its fleet: that is a lawful action; but Russia demands a treaty to protect millions of Christians, and that is deemed to strengthen its position in the East at the expense of the balance of power. We can expect nothing from the West but blind hatred and malice.... (comment in the margin by Nicholas I: 'This is the whole point').

— Mikhail Pogodin's memorandum to Nicholas I, 1853
 
I was wondering how you'd avoid answering. Turns out it was just repeating what I said back at me. 3/10

At least I provided an answer, unlike you when probed to explain the difference between Kosovo and Crimea/Donbas :smirk:
 
Well if we weigh matters honestly it is hard to see a Russian win following the invasion and quite easy to see how NATO will be stronger in the middle to long term future.

Lets make the obvious point that Finland and Sweden have joined NATO because of the invasion and Poland has massively increased its defence spending as have other eastern European countries. Is that a win for Russia?

They have used about 2/3 of the Soviet arms stored in terms of tanks armored fighting vehicles and long range missiles. They will never replace them. Not a win there either.

1/3 of the black see fleet is destroyed and there naval base at Sevastopol has been abandoned for operations. That's not a win either.

Their air force has struggled with combined operations has lost huge numbers of planes and helicopters. It still can't dominate the battle field areas for overflight and target acquisition purposes. No win there.

The count is what 450000 dead or wounded with no end in sight two years into a two week special operation.

That is not winning in my opinion.

Where do you get the two weeks from?
 
At least I provided an answer, unlike you when probed to explain the difference between Kosovo and Crimea/Donbas :smirk:

It’s funny how easy you are to read! I notice you don’t put that smiley face on any of your other posts. Almost as though you’re fuming on the inside but trying to project a different image.

Anyway, let’s not clog up this thread for everyone else. Enjoy your day, and Viva Kosovo!
 
It’s funny how easy you are to read! I notice you don’t put that smiley face on any of your other posts. Almost as though you’re fuming on the inside but trying to project a different image.

Anyway, let’s not clog up this thread for everyone else. Enjoy your day, and Viva Kosovo!

Thanks for the geopolitical insight buddy.
 
Just stumbled upon this great quote from 1853, at the start of the Crimean war between Russia and Turkey (supported by Western powers).

I must say it raises interesting points :

If you're left resorting to plucking out obscure 19th century quotes then you're probably not winning the debate. But that's probably a discussion for the Balkans thread.
 
If you're left resorting to plucking out obscure 19th century quotes then you're probably not winning the debate. But that's probably a discussion for the Balkans thread.

I just feel like History is completely left out of this thread, despite being a large part of the belligerents' casus belli.

Sadly it is likely down to most posters' ignorance on the region and the matter at large.
 
Can you elaborate on this casus belli?

I am not one of the belligerents but Putin released a long essay in 2021 that you must know of, on what he views as the historical unity of Russians and Ukrainians, with this quote in particular which goes some way to explain his invasion six months later :

But the fact is that the situation in Ukraine today is completely different because it involves a forced change of identity. And the most despicable thing is that the Russians in Ukraine are being forced not only to deny their roots, generations of their ancestors but also to believe that Russia is their enemy. It would not be an exaggeration to say that the path of forced assimilation, the formation of an ethnically pure Ukrainian state, aggressive towards Russia, is comparable in its consequences to the use of weapons of mass destruction against us. As a result of such a harsh and artificial division of Russians and Ukrainians, the Russian people in all may decrease by hundreds of thousands or even millions.
 
And what's your personal view of Putin's words? Do you think he has a valid point there?

I believe in self determination and that if the people of Crimea and Donbas prefer to be part of Russia, backed by legitimate referendums, the world order created in 2008 in Kosovo needs to accept that
 
You're just parroting the nationalist rhetoric that's so common in your country's press. Kosovo and Ukraine can't be compared. But i also know there is zero chance of you acknowledging that.
Think you guys didn't do enough to make Obraniak comfortable within the Poland set-up. He was your main creative outlet

My Serbia is out after a defeat in Belgium. Shame we were drawn in a tough group, once again we miss out on a major tournament despite one of the best defences in the world (Ivanovic-Subotic-Nastasic-Kolarov) and a couple of great players coming through (Matic, Markovic, Tadic). Sadness.
He's clearly French you see, no connection to Serbia whatsoever except if you are a long time member of redcafe and remember his previous postings. He's credible like all Russian shills @DT12 style.
Don't lose your time with him.
 
He's clearly French you see, no connection to Serbia whatsoever except if you are a long time member of redcafe and remember his previous postings. He's credible like all Russian shills @DT12 style.
Don't lose your time with him.

I am French with some ancestors from what you call Kosovo.

Kosovo Serbs, that is.

Maybe you can take a turn at explaining the difference between Kosovo and Crimea? Your mate did not do a great job at it.
 
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I am French with ancestors from what you call Kosovo.

Kosovo Serbs, that is.

Maybe you can take a turn at explaining the difference between Kosovo and Crimea? Your mate did not do a great job at it.
No, stand on business and just admit you're a serb. You tried to trick a member by claiming that you had no skin in the game, that you were French. I don't have to explain anything. I don't lose my time with russian/serbian shills. Next time dont be disengenuous and just be frank from the start.
 
No, stand on business and just admit you're a serb. You tried to trick a member by claiming that you had no skin in the game, that you were French. I don't have to explain anything. I don't lose my time with russian/serbian shills. Next time dont be disengenuous and just be frank from the start.

You seem to know my nationality better than me. Looks like we have another poster in this thread who is as clueless about the Balkans as he is about Ukraine.

The fact my interest in Kosovo stems from some ancestors hailing from there changes nothing to my initial post - I have nothing about Kosovo Albanians wanting independence but then you must grant it to Russians in Ukraine too if they vote for it.
 
You seem to know my nationality better than me. Looks like we have another poster in this thread who is as clueless about the Balkans as he is about Ukraine.

Look man you're albanian and i'm serbian so we can discuss this until tomorrow and not have moved an inch, i didnt subscribe on redcafe to dwell on balkan politics, quite the contrary...
 
You seem to know my nationality better than me. Looks like we have another poster in this thread who is as clueless about the Balkans as he is about Ukraine.

The fact my interest in Kosovo stems from some ancestors hailing from there changes nothing to my initial post - I have nothing about Kosovo Albanians wanting independence but then you must grant it to Russians in Ukraine too if they vote for it.
You're french. You should devote your time to the Corsica issue.
 
He's clearly French you see, no connection to Serbia whatsoever except if you are a long time member of redcafe and remember his previous postings. He's credible like all Russian shills @DT12 style.
Don't lose your time with him.

Exactly. Sacre Bleu! Nothing to see here, guv.
 
You seem to know my nationality better than me. Looks like we have another poster in this thread who is as clueless about the Balkans as he is about Ukraine.

The fact my interest in Kosovo stems from some ancestors hailing from there changes nothing to my initial post - I have nothing about Kosovo Albanians wanting independence but then you must grant it to Russians in Ukraine too if they vote for it.
I am 100% sure that you have mentioned before that you are a Serb. Even went to Kosovo at some stage at some monestery. Unless I’ve got Alzheimer’s.

I remember you recently mentioning that you live in France, so thought that you just moved there and maybe have a French passport.
 
I am 100% sure that you have mentioned before that you are a Serb. Even went to Kosovo at some stage at some monestery. Unless I’ve got Alzheimer’s.

I remember you recently mentioning that you live in France, so thought that you just moved there and maybe have a French passport.

I am French with Yugoslavian roots. Born and bred in Paris.
 
No, stand on business and just admit you're a serb. You tried to trick a member by claiming that you had no skin in the game, that you were French. I don't have to explain anything. I don't lose my time with russian/serbian shills. Next time dont be disengenuous and just be frank from the start.

Tried and failed. But don’t worry, I won’t waste my time either, thanks for the heads up!
 
The post was addressed to me. Have had many exchanges with him during the years for the same issue.
 
I am French with Yugoslavian roots. Born and bred in Paris.
Are the roots both your parents moving from Kosovo/Serbia to France?

I mean, that’s fine. Most Serbians I know who are born outside of Serbia, still consider themselves Serbian, or at least partially Serbian. Same as how Dua Lipa is Albanian/Kosovan despite being born and raised in London.

I do not see any issue with this, but for the sake of argument, I think it was dishonest to say you’re French (despite being correct) cause that was put in the context of not having skin on this game. Which you obviously do.
 
I am 100% sure that you have mentioned before that you are a Serb. Even went to Kosovo at some stage at some monestery. Unless I’ve got Alzheimer’s.

I remember you recently mentioning that you live in France, so thought that you just moved there and maybe have a French passport.

He has written, specifically. “I am Serbian” before ok this forum.